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Old 01-29-2013, 05:58 AM  
mdchiefsfan mdchiefsfan is offline
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Chris Weinke (IMG Academy) Talks with Danny Parkins about upcoming QB class.

http://www.610sports.com/topic/play_...udioId=6212845

Pretty good stuff in here guys. Sorry if Q.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Those teams were able to tailor their systems around those guys BECAUSE they had elite accuracy. It didn't cause them to be accurate.


Sorry, but a system doesn't create accuracy.
A system can create completion percentage.

Ball placement is a product of biomechanics - either you can repeat your delivery or you can't.

You can improve in the margins, but that's about it. Think of it as moving within letter grades. If you're a B- level passer, you can become a B and maybe a B+, but a guy with B- accuracy is never going to be an A rated trhower and a person with C level accuracy as a rookie is almost certainly doomed to a career of mediocrity.

That said, the right system can mask it and I think it's the exact opposite of the system most would advocate. If only half of your balls are going to be accurate, might as well launch it downfield and make them count.

The short passing game should be utilized by truly pinpoint passers. I honestly think that your more scattershot arms should become downfield bombers. That's what finally made Eli effective and that's when Stafford was at his best.

Geno's accuracy is such that a smart coach will make him a guy that thrives by absolutely picking teams apart in the 10 yard range.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:11 PM   #287
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Aaron Rogers type arm? Eh, thats really pushing it.
sheer arm strength? Yes, on a technique perspective no
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:12 PM   #288
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Geno Smith has adequate arm strength. To me, it is a pass/fail event. Can he put it on enough of a rope to fit it into tight windows before the defense can react on a 10-15 yard route? PASS. I have seen it several times this year.

Barkley? Not so readily. Barkley is someone who could make throwing at the combine pay dividends if he can demonstrate some tangible velocity.

Geno's accuracy and precision is deadly and to all levels of the field. That is what I want. All the big-armed guys get totally overblown, because so many of them end up being gunslingers.
good post. i can agree with that.

again o.city it's my opinion i'm not using it to compare, sorry if you took it that way i'm just using it as similarities of what i've seen as far as mental makeup. I think any QB could be the next GOAT if they have the skillset and the drive.. Hell it could be geno, it could be ****ing tyler bray. I just haven't seen enough of either of them to say what my thoughts on ceiling would be
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:14 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
A system can create completion percentage.

Ball placement is a product of biomechanics - either you can repeat your delivery or you can't.

You can improve in the margins, but that's about it. Think of it as moving within letter grades. If you're a B- level passer, you can become a B and maybe a B+, but a guy with B- accuracy is never going to be an A rated trhower and a person with C level accuracy as a rookie is almost certainly doomed to a career of mediocrity.

That said, the right system can mask it and I think it's the exact opposite of the system most would advocate. If only half of your balls are going to be accurate, might as well launch it downfield and make them count.

The short passing game should be utilized by truly pinpoint passers. I honestly think that your more scattershot arms should become downfield bombers. That's what finally made Eli effective and that's when Stafford was at his best.

Geno's accuracy is such that a smart coach will make him a guy that thrives by absolutely picking teams apart in the 10 yard range.
Well, thats pretty much what they've done with Flacco.

I'm not totally sure if he's arguing that a system can physically make a guy more accurate, or like you have said, mask it if he's not.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:16 PM   #290
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ok guess i should have worded better, I agree with dj that it can mask it and bring the #'s up and can be serviceable. I'm not saying brady or peyton are not naturally accurate i'm just saying their systems allowed them to be in the considerations for GOAT, if you would have changed that they would still be damn good QB's and accurate but don't know about the elite status that they have reached would be gained in a different system
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:22 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Well, thats pretty much what they've done with Flacco.

I'm not totally sure if he's arguing that a system can physically make a guy more accurate, or like you have said, mask it if he's not.
Exactly, Flacco's a great example.

If you have a guy that's just flat going to misfire on half the balls he throws, the risk/reward needs to make every time he drops back worth the possible turnover.

When you're Mark Sanchez or Matt Cassel and your 'accurate' pass is worth 8 yards because it was a checkdown and then your inaccurate pass is thrown to the shoes of a RB out of the backfield or picked off over the middle, you're of no use to anyone. But if you're Flacco or Eli and an accurate pass is good for 40 yards and an inaccurate one is, at worst, the equivalent of a mediocre punt, well at that point you can be useful even if you're not precise.

That's why I love Geno for this scheme (and why I can tolerate Smith). A guy that's accurate is actually better served in a short passing game or, if he's incredibly accurate, the high volume intermediate passing game like they run in NE.

Tom Brady is Albert Pujols - Pujols is a superlative hitter that occasionally puts it over the wall when he hits it just right. Joe Flacco is Prince Fielder - plenty of flaws but he swings !@#$ing hard and when he squares it up, it goes a long goddamn way.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:27 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by fairladyZ View Post
ok guess i should have worded better, I agree with dj that it can mask it and bring the #'s up and can be serviceable. I'm not saying brady or peyton are not naturally accurate i'm just saying their systems allowed them to be in the considerations for GOAT, if you would have changed that they would still be damn good QB's and accurate but don't know about the elite status that they have reached would be gained in a different system
I can agree with you on Brady, but Manning would have been an elite QB in any system in his younger days. He could put the football anywhere on the field on target. Laser or touch pass, he could do it. His arm is half gone, so now I think he is limited more to a short passing game for 90% of his throws.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:54 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Aiding the QB's accuracy doesnt equal making a QB more accurate. They tweaked their system because Cassel wasn't as accurate as Brady, coudn't read defenses as well, and was assfart at pushing it down the field.
That's what I don't get about our f/o and this draft.

Reid runs an offense that throws the ball like crazy and really depends on the QB being accurate. Trying to play like this with some cheese-puff you pull off the shelf in fa/4th round isn't going to work.

Us not taking a QB early just seems counter productive to me...
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:02 AM   #294
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:31 AM   #295
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This!!!!! If last year didn't have those two, there wouldn't be any discussion about who the Chiefs would be picking this year.
I am getting so tired of hearing that from homer fans and media. Of course there is no RGIII or Luck in this draft. They were drafted last year. Guess what, there were QBs taken in all the other drafts that were not RGIII and Luck as well.

Such stupid reasoning.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:08 AM   #296
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I know some guys like Cutler have a cannon, but he's a perfect example of relying on that physical gift and it results in sloppy plays and turnovers.

Then take Peyton - who has a WAY less on any ball he has ever tossed. Heck, I was talking with him one day and he even admitted his arm strength was below average, and said that Eli without a doubt possessed way more of the natural throwing talent. It also meant that as he grew up playing he keyed in on his touch and accuracy as well as being forced to go thru his progressions as he wasn't so brash about his ability to sling it into really tight windows which often are really just try to force the ball in and not the smart read or play.

What I didn't know was just what a howitzer that Kaepernick does have! JESUS, MARY, & JOSEPH!! Here's a video posted on YouTube of him firing a couple passes, with one distancing itself at 264 yards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gtv...e_gdata_player

* note the throw is from an elevated position but I have no clue how to adjust what the throw would be if on a level playing field. I have to imagine it still means he can essentially get the ball from end zone to ends one if needed.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:53 AM   #297
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That's what I don't get about our f/o and this draft.

Reid runs an offense that throws the ball like crazy and really depends on the QB being accurate. Trying to play like this with some cheese-puff you pull off the shelf in fa/4th round isn't going to work.

Us not taking a QB early just seems counter productive to me...
It is counterproductive.

Which is precisely why we'll take a QB #1 overall.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:37 AM   #298
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Yeah, I don't see the Matt Ryan comparison. I'd say for Barkley to be successful he'd have to be a little more Brees and have elite accuracy to make up for his lack of arm strength.
Breeze is a good comparison. Look what he did in college. Threw the ball all over the place with great accuracy in what was described then as a gimmicky offense. That is probably a better Geno comparison but Geno has better physical traits.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:41 AM   #299
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Here's Drew Brees' predraft scouting report

Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.

Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:42 AM   #300
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Here's Drew Brees' predraft scouting report

Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.

Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment
That's Tyler Wilson.
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