Ethics and Honor - A Rain Man Rant - Page 3

**Rain Man** · 05-02-2005, 08:49 PM

Gol'dang it, I'm ticked off.

We've implemented a very challenging and time consuming process to hire people in my firm, in an effort to get the people who are most likely to be successful. We implemented it last year, and it took us three months to find a strong candidate for a relatively quantitative position. It was a college student who was supposed to graduate in May, and we made her the offer in January, with the agreement that she would start part time in January and then go full time in May.

Well, she's been working for us part time for four months, and was supposed to start full time two weeks from today. So what does she do today? She turns in her two-week notice. Her two-week notice!

Now, if the job wasn't a fit, that's fine. But it was. She was doing good work for us, we all liked her, and she seemed to be genuinely interested in the work. She had a great future here. But get this: It turns out that she continued interviewing for jobs after she accepted our job offer, and she actually accepted a second job offer AFTER SHE WAS WORKING AT MY COMPANY. She then strung my firm along for who knows how long, letting us think that she was keeping her commitment to start full time after graduation, while knowing full well that she was going to screw us over on short notice. Now we're having a busy month, and the person that I've been working my schedule around to accommodate a part-time schedule is freaking quitting, RIGHT WHEN SHE HAD COMMITTED TO STEP UP.

It ticks me off for about a thousand reasons. Dang it. What is wrong with people today? If someone treats you well, don't slam their fingers in the car door.

Stupid people. I hate people. From here on out, I'm just hiring cats.

Raiderhater · 05-02-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

I don't know Rainman......I can see why you're pissed.......but Employers take Dumps on College students all the time.

ITs a dog eat Dog world and she has to look out for #1. If she found a job for alot more Mon-ay, or closer to where she wants to be...

I'll bet she's been riding your bike to work too.

That is a quality kick on a man already down. Funny as hell.

**Rain Man** · 05-02-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingAlice

Have you talked to her about it? Either casually or in the context of a formal "exit interview?" Not to say that she'll be honest with you. She probably won't. But it's worth a try.

From your perspective it was a great fit and she was doing well. But it's rare for someone (especially a bright woman in math and science) to do what she's done without some reason. Most of us don't leave employment that we really like.

Maybe from her perspective she didn't feel as though she fit in. Maybe there were things in the organizational culture that she found distasteful. Or maybe she felt that she was low-balled during salary negotiations and pulled a T.O. in order to get a whole lot more money elsewhere.

I don't what your company does. I don't mean to be sexist and I'm trying not to jump to conclusions but is your firm very male dominated? I've had friends and have myself worked in intensely male-dominated environments that we all found personally repellant. In these cases, most women pretend to get along, bite their tongues and find a way to leave as soon as possible. I'm not talking here about an environment of harrassment and overt discrimination, but one of not-so-subtle hostility and/or indifference. This is particularly true in science and engineering fields.

If she has a particularly savvy coping style then she could well leave you with the impression that she was comfortable with your company all the while hating it.

Of course, it may not be a gender thing. It may be how interesting the work is ... what she began to perceive her career trajectory might be ... her opinion of her supervisor... lifestyle and general corporate culture issues ... or ... again ... money. Regardless, I would look at this as a labor market issue (not so much an ethical issue) and I would try to find out why she bolted so fast.

In the end, the important question for you is employee recruitment and retention. In the long run, the answer to that question is what's valuable to your company.

Actually, our company is 70 percent female and all employees of both sexes are analyst-level, so I don't think that was an issue. And I know that she was interested in the work, because she was quite engaged and had told me in the past couple of months that she was quite interested in the work.

To be honest, I'll bet anything that this is just an immature college student decision where she wanted to get the highest starting salary that she could. The other job is a boring-sounding reliability engineer job, but I'm sure as an engineering job that it pays more. I was an undergrad once, and I know that starting salary is a scorecard for people at that stage of life.

The part that ticks me off is that she shouldn't have even been interviewing. She had already accepted a job and had even started work. I remember when I was in undergrad that the career office wouldn't allow you to interview if you had already accepted a job.

Inspector · 05-02-2005, 09:25 PM

Be careful replacing her with a cat.

Your new employee might just pee all over your office furniture.

And they might smell kinda fishy too.

Something to think about.

**Rain Man** · 05-02-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeeefs

*sniff* I didn't even get an obligatory "We'll call you"

Um...we don't have any openings right now.

Seriously, if you or anyone else has a math degree and can pass a couple of math tests, we're looking...it's a darn cool job, too.

stevieray · 05-02-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nzoner 338

I don't wanna interfere with Kevin's rant,so just a head's up your inbox is FULL.

not anymore. besides, he's getting paid by the debil. I'll bet the girl got tired of working with the giant pentagram on the ceiling.

**Iowanian** · 05-02-2005, 09:28 PM

Maybe she got to looking at
1. Student Loan Debt "its gonna take 15 years at HOW MUCH?"
2. Weddings.....photographer, $3500 Cake $1500, Ice sculptures....dinner for 300.........

I can see why a few grand would entice someone young away.

I wonder if you still have a chance to call her in, explain that you like her, think she's been doing a great job, has unlimited potential in your company, and up the ante.............?

cheeeefs · 05-02-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Um...we don't have any openings right now.

Seriously, if you or anyone else has a math degree and can pass a couple of math tests, we're looking...it's a darn cool job, too.

1+1 = 2

2+2 = 4

the square root of twenty is the same as the number that if you multiply it by itself it equals twenty.

I can start in about.... two weeks.

Jenson71 · 05-02-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeeefs

the square root of twenty is the same as the number that if you multiply it by itself it equals twenty.

Um... Correct!

**Iowanian** · 05-02-2005, 09:34 PM

Neg rep her ass! Send her an Unpleasant PM, or maybe even put her on Ignore for the 2 weeks.

If she quit, and you don't really HAVE to have her, to protect your interests, you should send her ass home at 8am tomorrow.

cheeeefs · 05-02-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Um... Correct!

can you believe that that was off the top of my head with no cheating?

**Rain Man** · 05-02-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

maybe the leaving has more to do with her impending marraige and a job her to be hubby has taken somewhere else...............

The fiance is still in school, so he's not graduating yet.

I know where you're coming from on employer loyalty. I got laid off when I was in the defense industry in a rather brutal manner, and then my resignation from my former consulting firm came after I got screwed out of literally hundreds of thousands of dollars by my crooked ex-boss. But the defense industry thing was just business after a big contract got canceled, and the ex-boss thing was just my misfortune of working at a firm that got taken over by an insane crook right before I got a partnership offer. Bad timing in both cases.

So truthfully, the only two professional jobs I had before starting my company both ended badly. That still doesn't mean that I would screw over another company that offered me a job, though.

Honestly, the thing that frustrates me most is that it was looking like she would've been a good employee, and I just didn't expect this out of her. It's disappointing behavior.

JOhn · 05-02-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Um...we don't have any openings right now.

Seriously, if you or anyone else has a math degree and can pass a couple of math tests, we're looking...it's a darn cool job, too.

Sounds like a great job for, all but the Math part

stevieray · 05-02-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Neg rep her ass!

I was thinking ..he's in Denver, she cut him off at the knees....this is normal behavior, isn't it?

I wonder if she told him at IHOP?

**Rain Man** · 05-02-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

not anymore. besides, he's getting paid by the debil. I'll bet the girl got tired of working with the giant pentagram on the ceiling.

That reminds me. Did you get my check for painting the pentagram?

**Iowanian** · 05-02-2005, 09:36 PM

Yeah! She's a Donk fan and Chop blocked you....

Good call FDE.

View Poll Results: In which situations is either party being unethical or dishonorable?
A. Employer makes job offer to college student, student starts work, employer fires student within 90 days for poor job performance.	0	0%
B. Employer makes job offer to college student, student starts work, student quits within 90 days after finding 'better' job.	0	0%
C. Employer makes job offer to college student, student starts work, employer lays off student within 90 days due to slow business.	3	21.43%
D. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, employer rescinds offer before start date because a stronger candidate came available by pure happenstance	9	64.29%
E. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, employer continues to interview candidates for that position, employer rescinds offer before start date because a stronger candidate was located.	11	78.57%
F. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, employer rescinds offer before start date due to slow business.	4	28.57%
G. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, student reneges on offer before start date because another 'better' job offer arrived by pure happenstance.	3	21.43%
H. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, student continues to actively interview for other jobs, student reneges on offer before start date because another 'better' job offer was received.	9	64.29%
I. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, student reneges on offer after beginning pre-job paid training program because another 'better' job offer arrived by pure happenstance.	7	50.00%
J. Employer makes job offer to college student, student accepts job, student continues to actively interview for other jobs, student reneges on offer after beginning pre-job paid training program because another 'better' job offer was received.	11	78.57%
None of these represent unethical or dishonorable behavior.	1	7.14%
It depends on which one is me.	1	7.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

05-02-2005, 08:49 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $2768491 VARSITY	Ethics and Honor - A Rain Man Rant Gol'dang it, I'm ticked off. We've implemented a very challenging and time consuming process to hire people in my firm, in an effort to get the people who are most likely to be successful. We implemented it last year, and it took us three months to find a strong candidate for a relatively quantitative position. It was a college student who was supposed to graduate in May, and we made her the offer in January, with the agreement that she would start part time in January and then go full time in May. Well, she's been working for us part time for four months, and was supposed to start full time two weeks from today. So what does she do today? She turns in her two-week notice. Her two-week notice! Now, if the job wasn't a fit, that's fine. But it was. She was doing good work for us, we all liked her, and she seemed to be genuinely interested in the work. She had a great future here. But get this: It turns out that she continued interviewing for jobs after she accepted our job offer, and she actually accepted a second job offer AFTER SHE WAS WORKING AT MY COMPANY. She then strung my firm along for who knows how long, letting us think that she was keeping her commitment to start full time after graduation, while knowing full well that she was going to screw us over on short notice. Now we're having a busy month, and the person that I've been working my schedule around to accommodate a part-time schedule is freaking quitting, RIGHT WHEN SHE HAD COMMITTED TO STEP UP. It ticks me off for about a thousand reasons. Dang it. What is wrong with people today? If someone treats you well, don't slam their fingers in the car door. Stupid people. I hate people. From here on out, I'm just hiring cats.
Posts: 141,870

05-02-2005, 09:25 PM	#33
Inspector MVP Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: K.C. Casino cash: $9924975	Be careful replacing her with a cat. Your new employee might just pee all over your office furniture. And they might smell kinda fishy too. Something to think about.
Posts: 7,907

05-02-2005, 09:28 PM	#36
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4568454	Maybe she got to looking at 1. Student Loan Debt "its gonna take 15 years at HOW MUCH?" 2. Weddings.....photographer, $3500 Cake $1500, Ice sculptures....dinner for 300......... I can see why a few grand would entice someone young away. I wonder if you still have a chance to call her in, explain that you like her, think she's been doing a great job, has unlimited potential in your company, and up the ante.............?
Posts: 61,567

05-02-2005, 09:34 PM	#39
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4568454	Neg rep her ass! Send her an Unpleasant PM, or maybe even put her on Ignore for the 2 weeks. If she quit, and you don't really HAVE to have her, to protect your interests, you should send her ass home at 8am tomorrow.
Posts: 61,567

05-02-2005, 09:36 PM	#45
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4568454	Yeah! She's a Donk fan and Chop blocked you.... Good call FDE.
Posts: 61,567