I have a bad feeling.........

[Marcellus]

I recieved a water bill for $2800 yesterday. I think there is some mistake with a few decimal points right so I call the city (thats who handles our water here).
Come to find out, the dillhole who reads the meters has been estimating my bill for the last 6.5 years because he was scared of my dog. Well he didn't bother to inform anyone of this including me. My dog died a few months ago and I have since removed the fence form my yard. Well I guess they decide to do a real reading and now say I have been underbilled $2800.

The lady I talked to sounded like she didn't think I would have to pay that ammount but she needed to talk to the city attorney to see how to handle it. I have a bad feeling I am about to get bent over.

It would be different if they would have complained to me about my dog at some point. The gas and electric company had no issues reading my meter.

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'd argue that I would've been actively conserving if my water bills were that high. Since they weren't, I didn't. Therefore, the City deceived me via incompetence.

This is the equivalent of getting a great deal on a Corvette lease for $99 a month. Five years later, can the dealer come back and say, "I made a mistake. Your lease amount is $599 per month. You owe me $30,000."? Don't think so, vicious dog or not.

Okay - okay. I'm converted.

He should have to pay that much. In fact, he should send all the savings to ChiefsPlanet.

[cowboy_big_rich]

estimated bill deserves an estimated payment

[BIG_DADDY]

This is scary, they have been estimating my power bill for a long, long time. Just today I let the guy back there.

[KCWolfman]

The gas and electric company typically have meter readings completed by wireless transmission now. The water company doesn't have that benefit.

However, I do find it odd that your meter is fenced in. Did someone add to the home you are living in or move the fence?

[KCWolfman]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'd argue that I would've been actively conserving if my water bills were that high. Since they weren't, I didn't. Therefore, the City deceived me via incompetence.

This is the equivalent of getting a great deal on a Corvette lease for $99 a month. Five years later, can the dealer come back and say, "I made a mistake. Your lease amount is $599 per month. You owe me $30,000."? Don't think so, vicious dog or not.

Not really. A lawyer for the water company would state that usage is not determined solely upon an agreed total rate up front. And that the usage includes an additional 2800.00 that the client has yet to pay. It is more like a ballooned mortgage rate than an incorrect car payment. Luckily, it is a water bill and the city doesn't lose a whole heck of a lot with it. However, if there is any clause in the city billing agreement that mentions inability to read the meter (without warning to the tenant/owner) then he could be screwed.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by Kyle401

Looks like the experts agree. You need to contact the media with your story and use public opinion to influence the City to reduce your bill.

Also you may want to contact a lawyer. I would think that the City's negligence in their responsibility to furnish you with an accurate water bill could absolve you of financial responsibility. The City employed the meter reader, and maintains an easement on your property to access the water meter. Therefore, I don't see what excuse they have for not providing a bill with an accurate total, dog notwithstanding. Had they informed you that they were unable to access your meter, it would be a whole different ball game, but I don't see how they are holding any of the cards here.

They are basing their entire case on a meter reading that is over 6 years old? Seems like a good lawyer could poke holes in that pretty easy.

This makes perfect sense to me. Of course, we're talking dealing with government here, so faultless logic may not apply.

[KCWolfman]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

This makes perfect sense to me. Of course, we're talking dealing with government here, so faultless logic may not apply.

Probably not. The city is the main beneficiary and the city has made the laws regarding distribution, creation, and billing of water services. I wouldn't be surprised if there is already laws on the books to cover this issue. Also note, the meter reading is not six years old, it is current. The previous billable manual reading was made six years ago and again is subject to local city laws. I would first become versed in local law before contacting the city attorney or pay a local lawyer 200.00 to review the law and have him contact the city.

[KCWolfman]

For example,

You would be able to beat city hall in Liberty, Missouri with an attorney. Here is their law regarding the topic of meter readings:

Sec. 29-28. Meter failure, calculation of charges.
Whenever water is taken by meter measurement and by reason of a temporary defect in the meter or failure to read the meter and the monthly or period bill cannot be arrived at accurately, the collector of water rates may make the bill an average of the preceding six (6) months.

There is no mention of failure to read a meter as being the responsibility of the tenant/owner.
Also in favor in Liberty

Sec. 29-43. Testing meters.
It shall be the duty of the utilities director to cause frequent inspection of meters bi-annually. All meters shall be tested as often as may be necessary to insure their thorough repair and accurate registration. No charge shall be made for such inspection and testing. When an actual test of the meter, made at the request of the consumer, shows the same to be in order and showing correct registration, a charge of twenty-five dollars ($25.00) shall be made and collected by the director of finance.
(Ord. No. 2024, § 43; Ord. No. 3422; Ord. No. 6370, § 1, 6-8-92)

Since you have stated it has been 6.5 years, if you were in Liberty, your lawyer could state the city has been remiss in the testing of the meter on at least 3 separate occassions and is primarily responsible for any inaccurate or failed readings.


This is the kind of information you need to pursue prior to contacting the city attorney. I would also recommend strongly spending that 200.00 - 300.00 bucks for an attorney. It sure beats 2800.00 and he would be able to find out more than you can.

[chief52]

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

The utility can estimate a read, but this is way out of hand. They have an obligation to bill in a precise and prompt manner.

I work for Pacific Gas and Electric. I will ask someone what they think. This seems to be very neglectful on the utility's part...if it is all true as you state.

[Skip Towne]

I would certainly contest their meter readings that were 6 years apart. That was entirely their fault and it deprived you of a month to month accurate account of your water usage. You could have had a leak under your house that you had no way of knowing about that you would have had with monthly readings. If they were dealing with me they would have one hell of a time collecting one dime. Their mistake, they can absorb it.

[chief52]

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

I would certainly contest their meter readings that were 6 years apart. That was entirely their fault and it deprived you of a month to month accurate account of your water usage. You could have had a leak under your house that you had no way of knowing about that you would have had with monthly readings. If they were dealing with me they would have one hell of a time collecting one dime. Their mistake, they can absorb it.

Enjoy your outhouse, Skip

[KCWolfman]

Originally Posted by chief52

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

The utility can estimate a read, but this is way out of hand. They have an obligation to bill in a precise and prompt manner.

I work for Pacific Gas and Electric. I will ask someone what they think. This seems to be very neglectful on the utility's part...if it is all true as you state.

Again, usually true if it is a major utility. However, you are comparing PAC Gas to a city held entity, a city that gets to write its own rules regarding the billing services.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

For example,

You would be able to beat city hall in Liberty, Missouri with an attorney. Here is their law regarding the topic of meter readings:

Sec. 29-28. Meter failure, calculation of charges.
Whenever water is taken by meter measurement and by reason of a temporary defect in the meter or failure to read the meter and the monthly or period bill cannot be arrived at accurately, the collector of water rates may make the bill an average of the preceding six (6) months.

There is no mention of failure to read a meter as being the responsibility of the tenant/owner.
Also in favor in Liberty

Sec. 29-43. Testing meters.
It shall be the duty of the utilities director to cause frequent inspection of meters bi-annually. All meters shall be tested as often as may be necessary to insure their thorough repair and accurate registration. No charge shall be made for such inspection and testing. When an actual test of the meter, made at the request of the consumer, shows the same to be in order and showing correct registration, a charge of twenty-five dollars ($25.00) shall be made and collected by the director of finance.
(Ord. No. 2024, § 43; Ord. No. 3422; Ord. No. 6370, § 1, 6-8-92)

Since you have stated it has been 6.5 years, if you were in Liberty, your lawyer could state the city has been remiss in the testing of the meter on at least 3 separate occassions and is primarily responsible for any inaccurate or failed readings.


This is the kind of information you need to pursue prior to contacting the city attorney. I would also recommend strongly spending that 200.00 - 300.00 bucks for an attorney. It sure beats 2800.00 and he would be able to find out more than you can.

Outstanding!

I hope Marcellus kicks their ass.

[chief52]

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

Again, usually true if it is a major utility. However, you are comparing PAC Gas to a city held entity, a city that gets to write its own rules regarding the billing services.

You may be right, but it sure seems unfair. Just flat not read a meter for 6 plus years and not notify the customer??? Either the utility is clueless or there is more to the story...

Wouldn't a city owned utility still have to follow rules laid down by the State Public Utilities Commision? It may be worth the time to give them a call.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by chief52

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

The utility can estimate a read, but this is way out of hand. They have an obligation to bill in a precise and prompt manner.

I work for Pacific Gas and Electric. I will ask someone what they think. This seems to be very neglectful on the utility's part...if it is all true as you state.

What you say here is true for the most part. However, in Kansas, cities are allowed to sell utilities but are not regulated by the KCC as any other utility is. Just another reason not to let the city in the act as they tend to make up their own rules. Either make them subject to KCC regulations as all other utilities are or kick their incompetent asses out of the business. I've already had my go around with the city of Chanute, Ks. and I kicked their asses. They ended up paying me money. They really hated that.