Chiefs Holthus takes a shot at Haley... - Page 4

**petegz28** · 08-15-2012, 04:44 PM

On 810 not long ago he was talking about the chemistry on this team and how he hasn't seen it this way really since he has been calling the games but to the juice...

Said the big reason for the chemistry is there is not a bunch of nit-picking, micro-managing and "useless yelling". Said Cassel doesn't have to worry anymore about being chewed out after changing the play and completing a downfield pass when the play called did not call for such. Went on to say that accountability is being maintained and used the Monday walk-through as an example. Just said there isn't a bunch ot nit-picking and yelling. Romeo let's the coaches coach, etc.

He then elabortated more about how Daboll doesn't give a shit if Cassel changes a play at the line if he thinks the play called won't succeed against the defensive alignment.

I took that as a clear shot at Haley and in retrospect it certainly seems to fit what we saw out of him for 3 years.

Brock · 08-15-2012, 05:27 PM

Pro players who need a bunch of yelling to get them to do their job should just be gotten rid of anyway. Veteran players are supposed to handle that.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-15-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Holthus talked about this and used the Monday walk-through as an example of Romeo calling for accountability. Said the walk-thorugh was shabby so Romeo would not let them go until they got shit right. and Id on't think Romeo will have a problem of laying into a player when it needs to be done. After all he is a defensive coach and that sort of comes with the territory.

That wasn't his reputation as a defensive coach. He is an unbelievable technical coach, unbelievable defensive strategist, and terrific dealing with players. But so is Norv Turner on the offensive side of the ball. His reputation in the past is that he is a player's coach that players love. When he was in Cleveland, players walked all over him after some time.

It's not like there isn't a long history to base this off of. Maybe he's learned from Cleveland and I hope he has. But right now, you can't pretend that his track record doesn't exist or make excuses for why it happened the first time around.

Mr. Laz · 08-15-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Macho Man

When a new coach comes in, the old one is always the scapegoat.

Same shit, different day.

truth

except for that fact that some of us were saying it about Haley BEFORE he left.

saphojunkie · 08-15-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That wasn't his reputation as a defensive coach. He is an unbelievable technical coach, unbelievable defensive strategist, and terrific dealing with players. But so is Norv Turner on the offensive side of the ball. His reputation in the past is that he is a player's coach that players love. When he was in Cleveland, players walked all over him after some time.

It's not like there isn't a long history to base this off of. Maybe he's learned from Cleveland and I hope he has. But right now, you can't pretend that his track record doesn't exist or make excuses for why it happened the first time around.

You are also using Cleveland as his only track record. Who is to say that Romeo didn't have the support of the front office? Who is to say that Romeo hasn't learned from that experience?

I don't understand people who look at a handful of years - his first head coaching experience - and say that will categorically define him as a coach going forward.

Once again...

Belichick.
Shottenheimer.

Sucked in Cleveland.

Hammock Parties · 08-15-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

You are also using Cleveland as his only track record. Who is to say that Romeo didn't have the support of the front office? Who is to say that Romeo hasn't learned from that experience?

I don't understand people who look at a handful of years - his first head coaching experience - and say that will categorically define him as a coach going forward.

Once again...

Belichick.
Shottenheimer.

Sucked in Cleveland.

Schottenheimer did not suck in Cleveland.

He went to two friggin' AFC Championship games fer crissakes.

You ****ing homers don't want to judge Romeo based on Cleveland, but you're more than willing to call Haley THE WORST HEAD COACH EVER based on his 3 years in KC.

Double ****ing standard.

Romeo is shit until he proves otherwise.

mr. tegu · 08-15-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I hope so. I'm not saying he hasn't learned or that things won't be different. But it's important to note that his reputation in his long career is that he's a player's coach.

I got you. Hopefully he has realized as a coordinator he can be a players coach. But as a HC his style was too permissive.

patteeu · 08-15-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

In fairness, Hothus also went on to say that Trent Green was also not afforded the luxury of checking out of plays. Said some coaches are just like that, they call the play and that's what you will run regardless.

And in fairness to both DV and Haley, those called plays are designed to have multiple permutations depending on the defense they encounter. The key to a system like that is for everyone to read the same thing and execute the right permutation.

That said, without any real games played so far, all of the players and coaches seem to have more of a spring in their step (or at least sound like they do when they're interviewed) this preseason.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-15-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

dude, I was watching some of the game film from some games over the last two years and I clearly just don't think Cassel is that dumb. I mean there were plays where the defense was just stacking the line yet there went the hand off up the middle.

And I don't know which specific play he was referring too but he said Cassel no longer has to worry about being chewed out in his helmet after completing a 20 yard pass dowfield because the play called from the sidelines did not call for that route.

I won't blame Haley for ALL of the fail during his time here. But it is a great point about the yelling and nit-picking. When coaches do that all the ****ing time players tend to start tuning him out.

You don't think Cassel is that dumb? Then why is there talk that he was using Patriots terminology several years into his Chiefs' career?

There are lots of coaches who have pre-determined plays. In fact, a good chunk of them. And frankly, the reason why we ran the ball against a stacked defensive line is because... well... Cassel couldn't throw the ball well against a stacked line either.

Maybe the coaching limited him. But let's not try to pretend that a lot of his problems are because he just wasn't very good.

mr. tegu · 08-15-2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

There are lots of coaches who have pre-determined plays. In fact, a good chunk of them. And frankly, the reason why we ran the ball against a stacked defensive line is because... well... Cassel couldn't throw the ball well against a stacked line either.

Maybe the coaching limited him. But let's not try to pretend that a lot of his problems are because he just wasn't very good.

An audible to a pass play from a run play with a stacked d-line is different and has different defensive reactions than a called pass play against a stacked d-line

All that being said, wouldn't a better option and lesser of two evils be to allow Cassel to change the play pre snap to a pass to at least have a CHANCE at a successful play instead of just running Battle/Jones into the teeth of the defense? I think so at least.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-15-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

An audible to a pass play from a run play with a stacked d-line is different and has different defensive reactions than a called pass play against a stacked d-line

All that being said, wouldn't a better option and lesser of two evils be to allow Cassel to change the play pre snap to a pass to at least have a CHANCE at a successful play instead of just running Battle/Jones into the teeth of the defense? I think so at least.

It depends on your strategy. The strategy worked fine in 2010, even though many claim that Weis was calling plays. The Chiefs ran the ball even when the defense was expecting it. The Chiefs' strategy was to set up makable 3rd and shorts. So while people on this board would call a 2-yard gain a failure, if it helps set up a 3rd and 4, it's not a terrible play.

It's not like we're talking about an isolated play here where the defense was stacking the box either. The defense stacked the box on every play. Against good defenses, even with a stacked box, Cassel couldn't find open receivers.

The problem is that the Chiefs more often than not took the ball out of Cassel's hands because when they let him drive the offense, we looked like shit. If they then built a strategy that minimized Cassel's contribution to the offense, there's good reason for it.

Hammock Parties · 08-15-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The problem is that the Chiefs more often than not took the ball out of Cassel's hands because when they let him drive the offense, we looked like shit. If they then built a strategy that minimized Cassel's contribution to the offense, there's good reason for it.

You can feel the fail coming this year just reading this post.

My gut simultaneously churns while my heart glows red hot hatred.

O.city · 08-15-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

Schottenheimer did not suck in Cleveland.

He went to two friggin' AFC Championship games fer crissakes.

You ****ing homers don't want to judge Romeo based on Cleveland, but you're more than willing to call Haley THE WORST HEAD COACH EVER based on his 3 years in KC.

Double ****ing standard.

Romeo is shit until he proves otherwise.

At this point in time, Romeo and Haley are basically equal. Both had a good season as a head coach, and a couple shitty ones.

I don't think either had the potential and talent that we have on this squad, but that's not whats in question.

I was impressed and glad to see the way the Chiefs performed, from a preparation and execution stand point, but it was just a PS game, so I'm not yet exonerating Romeo.

I think Haley was in over his head and tried to micromanage things, not delegating. He was probably micromanaged from the GM as well. In the end, it did in fact have to end.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-15-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

You can feel the fail coming this year just reading this post.

My gut simultaneously churns while my heart glows red hot hatred.

I disagree.

It's even worse.

I think this team is too talented. We're going to win games with our running game and stellar defense, Cassel is going to put on his typical "play not to lose" mentality, and people are going to suck him off for it. But never will the question be asked if an average QB could have done the same exact thing. It's exactly this mentality that disillusioned the Jets into thinking Mark Sanchez looks like a decent player.

O.city · 08-15-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

You can feel the fail coming this year just reading this post.

My gut simultaneously churns while my heart glows red hot hatred.

If he is to drive the offense this year and fails, hopefully we move on. If he is successful, we are successful.

Hammock Parties · 08-15-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I disagree.

It's even worse.

I think this team is too talented. We're going to win games with our running game and stellar defense, Cassel is going to put on his typical "play not to lose" mentality, and people are going to suck him off for it. But never will the question be asked if an average QB could have done the same exact thing. It's exactly this mentality that disillusioned the Jets into thinking Mark Sanchez looks like a decent player.

I think we'll find out, more than ever, that this strategy won't drive us to a playoff appearance in the modern NFL against a difficult schedule.

We will TRY to hide Cassel.

He CAN'T against this schedule.

He either turns into a real QB or we miss the playoffs again. Simple as that.

08-15-2012, 04:44 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $2474127	Holthus takes a shot at Haley... On 810 not long ago he was talking about the chemistry on this team and how he hasn't seen it this way really since he has been calling the games but to the juice... Said the big reason for the chemistry is there is not a bunch of nit-picking, micro-managing and "useless yelling". Said Cassel doesn't have to worry anymore about being chewed out after changing the play and completing a downfield pass when the play called did not call for such. Went on to say that accountability is being maintained and used the Monday walk-through as an example. Just said there isn't a bunch ot nit-picking and yelling. Romeo let's the coaches coach, etc. He then elabortated more about how Daboll doesn't give a shit if Cassel changes a play at the line if he thinks the play called won't succeed against the defensive alignment. I took that as a clear shot at Haley and in retrospect it certainly seems to fit what we saw out of him for 3 years.
Posts: 128,280

08-15-2012, 05:27 PM	#46
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Pro players who need a bunch of yelling to get them to do their job should just be gotten rid of anyway. Veteran players are supposed to handle that.
Posts: 47,314