Chiefs The Chiefs shouldn't select a QB in the 1st round - Page 47

kcbubb · 01-29-2009, 10:52 AM

The Chiefs should sign a free agent QB like Ryan Fitzpatrick. Or, if the Patriots would agree to it, swap first round picks with the Patriots for Matt Cassell.

The only defense in the league that was worse than the Chiefs was the 0-16 Detroit Lions. The Chiefs need, at a minimum, three new starters on defense (2 LB's & DE) if we stay in the 4-3. The Chiefs need defensive talent.

If the Chiefs do not swap first round picks with the Patriots for Cassell, the Chiefs would benefit the most by trading down and acquiring more picks and possibly getting more value out of their first round pick instead of reaching for a player. The Chiefs need defense with their first pick.

kcbubb · 02-03-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

Que the "Draft Chart is reeruned" argument.

I think you asked for an example of a trade. It's not impossible to trade down. It would probably take a couple of picks this year and a couple of pics next year. That would be my guess.

The trade last year where the Pats traded with the Saints and moved from 7 to 10. The Pats received a 3rd rounder (#78) but had to give a 5th rounder (#164) to move back three spots.

There is also an old trade from 2003 where the Bears traded with the Jets. The Bears moved back from the #4 pick to the #13 pick for the #22 pick and a fourth rounder. They moved 9 spots.

**MahiMike** · 02-03-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Just quit trying, if you think trading down is an option you are ****ing stupid. Five years ago, yeah no problem... it just doesn't happen anymore unless there is a player that is once in a lifetime, which there isn't one this year. The compensation and money is way to much now to trade up.

I disagree. The cap goes up every year and plenty of teams are below last year's cap. So they basically have 2 years worth of savings to spend on a guy this year. Also, next year there may be NO cap and the player's agents might try and break the bank. Better to trade up this year than any in the last 5 years.

beach tribe · 02-03-2009, 12:36 PM

I can't wait till they put in rookie salary slotting, and do away with all this BS that goes along with rookie contracts. They get WAY too much money for players who have never taken a snap. It hurt teams really bad when you miss on a guy, and makes it almost impossible to trade high picks.

**The Franchise** · 02-03-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

I think you asked for an example of a trade. It's not impossible to trade down. It would probably take a couple of picks this year and a couple of pics next year. That would be my guess.

The trade last year where the Pats traded with the Saints and moved from 7 to 10. The Pats received a 3rd rounder (#78) but had to give a 5th rounder (#164) to move back three spots.

There is also an old trade from 2003 where the Bears traded with the Jets. The Bears moved back from the #4 pick to the #13 pick for the #22 pick and a fourth rounder. They moved 9 spots.

Once again....#3 and #7 are completely different.

So because back in 2003.....the Bears traded out of the #4 spot to the #13 spot...and then to the #22 spot and got a 4th rounder.....you want us too? Let's see who they got trading back......

Rex Grossman.

Who are the players they passed up to get Grossman.

Terrell Suggs
Dewayne Robertson
Terence Newman
Johnathan Sullivan
Byron Leftwich
Jordan Gross
Kevin Williams
Marcus Trufant
Jimmy Kennedy
Ty Warren
Michael Haynes
Jerome McDougle
Troy Polamalu
Bryant Johnson
Calvin Pace
Kyle Boller
George Foster
Jeff Faine

And who'd they grab with that 4th round pick? Ian Scott.

ChiefRon · 02-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

Once again....#3 and #7 are completely different.

So because back in 2003.....the Bears traded out of the #4 spot to the #13 spot...and then to the #22 spot and got a 4th rounder.....you want us too? Let's see who they got trading back......

Rex Grossman.

Who are the players they passed up to get Grossman.

Terrell Suggs
Dewayne Robertson
Terence Newman
Johnathan Sullivan
Byron Leftwich
Jordan Gross
Kevin Williams
Marcus Trufant
Jimmy Kennedy
Ty Warren
Michael Haynes
Jerome McDougle
Troy Polamalu
Bryant Johnson
Calvin Pace
Kyle Boller
George Foster
Jeff Faine

And who'd they grab with that 4th round pick? Ian Scott.

Wow, that's a scary list, that's enough to scare you away from trading down no matter what the deal is...

kcbubb · 02-03-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

Once again....#3 and #7 are completely different.

So because back in 2003.....the Bears traded out of the #4 spot to the #13 spot...and then to the #22 spot and got a 4th rounder.....you want us too? Let's see who they got trading back......

Rex Grossman.

Who are the players they passed up to get Grossman.

Terrell Suggs
Dewayne Robertson
Terence Newman
Johnathan Sullivan
Byron Leftwich
Jordan Gross
Kevin Williams
Marcus Trufant
Jimmy Kennedy
Ty Warren
Michael Haynes
Jerome McDougle
Troy Polamalu
Bryant Johnson
Calvin Pace
Kyle Boller
George Foster
Jeff Faine

And who'd they grab with that 4th round pick? Ian Scott.

So, really the trade was Dewayne Robertson(#4) for the 13th pick (Ty Warren), Rex Grossman (#22) and Ian Scott (4th rounder).

And yes, I would take that type of trade. I think their is more value in the positions that we need (DE & LB) in the middle of the first round.

**The Franchise** · 02-03-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

So, really the trade was Dewayne Robertson(#4) for the 13th pick (Ty Warren), Rex Grossman (#22) and Ian Scott (4th rounder).

And yes, I would take that type of trade. I think their is more value in the positions that we need (DE & LB) in the middle of the first round.

EDIT: I"m checking on it now.

Frosty · 02-03-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

So, really the trade was Dewayne Robertson(#4) for the 13th pick (Ty Warren), Rex Grossman (#22) and Ian Scott (4th rounder).

Ty Warren is a Patriot, so something doesn't add up here.

**The Franchise** · 02-03-2009, 01:09 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo.../nfl_draft_ap/

The New York Jets used the fourth overall pick to take defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson. The Jets dealt the 13th and 22nd draft picks to the Chicago Bears on Friday for a shot at taking Robertson.

The New England Patriots flip-flopped picks with the Chicago Bears, moving up a notch to take defensive tackle Ty Warren of Texas A&M.

The Chicago Bears selected Penn State defensive end Michael Haynes with the 14th overall choice in the draft.

The Chicago Bears have a new quarterback. Florida's Rex Grossman was taken with the 22nd pick.

So they traded out of the #4 spot for the #13, #22 and a 4th round pick. They selected Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman and Ian Scott.

Chicago traded its first-round (No. 13) choice to New England for the Patriots first- (No. 14) and sixth-round (No. 193) choices. New England selected Ty Warren, DT, Texas A&M. Chicago selected Michael Haynes, DE, Penn St. and (No. 193).

So it looks like to move down from the #4 spot. They got 2 1sts, a 4th and a 6th. The 4th from the Jets and the 6th from the Pats for flip flopping.

kcbubb · 02-03-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo.../nfl_draft_ap/

The New York Jets used the fourth overall pick to take defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson. The Jets dealt the 13th and 22nd draft picks to the Chicago Bears on Friday for a shot at taking Robertson.

The New England Patriots flip-flopped picks with the Chicago Bears, moving up a notch to take defensive tackle Ty Warren of Texas A&M.

The Chicago Bears selected Penn State defensive end Michael Haynes with the 14th overall choice in the draft.

The Chicago Bears have a new quarterback. Florida's Rex Grossman was taken with the 22nd pick.

So they traded out of the #4 spot for the #13, #22 and a 4th round pick. They selected Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman and Ian Scott.

nope... the bears traded down again. they traded the #13 pick to the pats for the #14 pick and a late round pick. they took Michael Haynes with the #14 pick.

My original comment was correct. The Bears traded the #4 (Dewayne Robertson) pick for three picks #13 (Ty Warren), #22 (Rex Grossman), and 4th rounder (Ian Scott). Three picks for one.

The Ty Warren pick was traded to the Pats for the 14th pick, Michael Haynes and somebody else...

RustShack · 02-03-2009, 01:18 PM

So essentially what your saying is you would take Ty Warren over Robertson even though Robertson would fit our defense a lot better than Warren would? Or do you just think Grossman and Scott were good pickups too?

kcbubb · 02-03-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo.../nfl_draft_ap/

The New York Jets used the fourth overall pick to take defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson. The Jets dealt the 13th and 22nd draft picks to the Chicago Bears on Friday for a shot at taking Robertson.

The New England Patriots flip-flopped picks with the Chicago Bears, moving up a notch to take defensive tackle Ty Warren of Texas A&M.

The Chicago Bears selected Penn State defensive end Michael Haynes with the 14th overall choice in the draft.

The Chicago Bears have a new quarterback. Florida's Rex Grossman was taken with the 22nd pick.

So they traded out of the #4 spot for the #13, #22 and a 4th round pick. They selected Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman and Ian Scott.

Chicago traded its first-round (No. 13) choice to New England for the Patriots first- (No. 14) and sixth-round (No. 193) choices. New England selected Ty Warren, DT, Texas A&M. Chicago selected Michael Haynes, DE, Penn St. and (No. 193).

So it looks like to move down from the #4 spot. They got 2 1sts, a 4th and a 6th. The 4th from the Jets and the 6th from the Pats for flip flopping.

yes.... you got it. but that was to move 10 spots. all the way to #14. essentially it cost a 1st, a 4th, and a 6th to move 10 spots. or just a 1st and a 4th to move 9 spots.

**The Franchise** · 02-03-2009, 01:22 PM

And guess what.....the 13th and the 22nd picks are equal in value to the 4th on the draft value chart.

What is your point? One time in the last 10 years....someone has traded out of the top 5. Notice how it hasn't happened lately? Because contracts back then weren't huge compared to the contracts they give out today. No one is going to throw away 2 1st round picks at the chance to draft someone at #3 and then pay them $70 million dollars. They could easily stay where they are.....get 2 talented guys and pay them less combined.

kcbubb · 02-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

So essentially what your saying is you would take Ty Warren over Robertson even though Robertson would fit our defense a lot better than Warren would? Or do you just think Grossman and Scott were good pickups too?

I'm just using it as an example of what it would take for someone else to move up. It's probably not likely that we move that far. But it could be possible to move down 3-7 spots to the 6th-10th pick with a couple of picks this year and couple next year like a 2nd and 5th rounders this year and a 2nd and 5th rounders next year.

**The Franchise** · 02-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Just for shits and giggles......It takes the value of the 10th and 18th overall picks to move up to #3.

The only team that has two 1st round picks are the Eagles at 21 and 27. That equals around the 7th or 8th overall pick.

01-29-2009, 10:52 AM
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $6066719	The Chiefs shouldn't select a QB in the 1st round The Chiefs should sign a free agent QB like Ryan Fitzpatrick. Or, if the Patriots would agree to it, swap first round picks with the Patriots for Matt Cassell. The only defense in the league that was worse than the Chiefs was the 0-16 Detroit Lions. The Chiefs need, at a minimum, three new starters on defense (2 LB's & DE) if we stay in the 4-3. The Chiefs need defensive talent. If the Chiefs do not swap first round picks with the Patriots for Cassell, the Chiefs would benefit the most by trading down and acquiring more picks and possibly getting more value out of their first round pick instead of reaching for a player. The Chiefs need defense with their first pick.
Posts: 2,367

02-03-2009, 12:36 PM	#693
beach tribe Keep doubting J MFing Houston Join Date: May 2007 Location: ft.lauderdale Casino cash: $4758036	I can't wait till they put in rookie salary slotting, and do away with all this BS that goes along with rookie contracts. They get WAY too much money for players who have never taken a snap. It hurt teams really bad when you miss on a guy, and makes it almost impossible to trade high picks.
Posts: 21,429

02-03-2009, 01:09 PM	#699
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2835047	http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo.../nfl_draft_ap/ The New York Jets used the fourth overall pick to take defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson. The Jets dealt the 13th and 22nd draft picks to the Chicago Bears on Friday for a shot at taking Robertson. The New England Patriots flip-flopped picks with the Chicago Bears, moving up a notch to take defensive tackle Ty Warren of Texas A&M. The Chicago Bears selected Penn State defensive end Michael Haynes with the 14th overall choice in the draft. The Chicago Bears have a new quarterback. Florida's Rex Grossman was taken with the 22nd pick. So they traded out of the #4 spot for the #13, #22 and a 4th round pick. They selected Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman and Ian Scott. Chicago traded its first-round (No. 13) choice to New England for the Patriots first- (No. 14) and sixth-round (No. 193) choices. New England selected Ty Warren, DT, Texas A&M. Chicago selected Michael Haynes, DE, Penn St. and (No. 193). So it looks like to move down from the #4 spot. They got 2 1sts, a 4th and a 6th. The 4th from the Jets and the 6th from the Pats for flip flopping.
Posts: 92,296

02-03-2009, 01:18 PM	#701
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4596954	So essentially what your saying is you would take Ty Warren over Robertson even though Robertson would fit our defense a lot better than Warren would? Or do you just think Grossman and Scott were good pickups too? __________________
Posts: 15,049

02-03-2009, 01:22 PM	#703
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2835047	And guess what.....the 13th and the 22nd picks are equal in value to the 4th on the draft value chart. What is your point? One time in the last 10 years....someone has traded out of the top 5. Notice how it hasn't happened lately? Because contracts back then weren't huge compared to the contracts they give out today. No one is going to throw away 2 1st round picks at the chance to draft someone at #3 and then pay them $70 million dollars. They could easily stay where they are.....get 2 talented guys and pay them less combined.
Posts: 92,296

02-03-2009, 01:23 PM	#705
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2835047	Just for shits and giggles......It takes the value of the 10th and 18th overall picks to move up to #3. The only team that has two 1st round picks are the Eagles at 21 and 27. That equals around the 7th or 8th overall pick.
Posts: 92,296