The myth of Pioli

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Progress won't come until the roster is overhauled. People were asking for a miracle if they expected this roster take any steps forward during the season. There's a reason street free agents come in here and start the week they get a contract. This is a bad, bad team, and no amount of smoke and mirrors is going to change that fact. Talent wins games. Period. No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd. Which is why most realistic people, in and out of town, expected a maximum of 5 wins in 2009.

It's fine to hate losing and to get upset when it happens. Yesterday sucked. End of story. But burying the front office now. Too soon.

'course most of the people doing it started months ago.

Yes, maybe being more active in FA and playing to the strengths of the draft class would have obviated the need for trying to sift through the current list of garbage players who are available.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Progress won't come until the roster is overhauled.

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

Brian Dawkins would look like shit on this team too.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

Chiefsplanet John Kerry

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

What ****ing good is a 34?? yr old safety to us?
How will that make us a better team in the long run? You do know that the only thing that matters is the long run right? We are not winning 10 games with Dawkins the way Denver is, and I would be willing to bet, that if Dawkins was playing with Tamba Hali, and Not Elvis Dumerville, he would look like shit.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

Sure, if all you care about is how the team looks right now, if the (false) perception that they're "getting better" in 2009 matters all that much to you. If winning a few more games during a losing season is a big deal to you, if going 8-8 so you don't have to suffer through any down times is more important that working towards a long-term turnaround. If you're a big fan of the way Carl Peterson did business. Which I am not.

As for me, well, in my view, the team would not be better in any meaningful way if they exchanged some of the scrubs that are starting now for different scrubs. YOU might feel better, if they'd won 4 or 5 games now instead of 3 (and there's no guarantee that anything would be any different with different names on the jerseys), but at the end of the day it would end exactly the same way: looking for replacements in 2010 and beyond to build the team that they want.

This year was not the time for bold free agent moves, in my opinion. I think they have to build the core of their team first, through the drafts, and then fill in the holes that way. All of the guys you're bitching about are placeholders for guys who'll be drafted later on. Which is I think the right approach.

Can they do it? I don't know. I do know it's not something that can be done in one offseason. Or two. And I'm not supporting Pioli or anybody else when I say that. What I am saying is that I can't judge the quality or lack thereof of their philosophy or approach at this point.

Because it's too soon.

Which I'm sure I've said before.

But by all means don't let me interrupt your hilarious overreaction and bi-polar weekly behavior.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Progress won't come until the roster is overhauled. People were asking for a miracle if they expected this roster take any steps forward during the season. There's a reason street free agents come in here and start the week they get a contract. This is a bad, bad team, and no amount of smoke and mirrors is going to change that fact. Talent wins games. Period. No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd. Which is why most realistic people, in and out of town, expected a maximum of 5 wins in 2009.

It's fine to hate losing and to get upset when it happens. Yesterday sucked. End of story. But burying the front office now? Too soon.

'course most of the people doing it started months ago.

If the 2010 or 2011 Chiefs look like this, if next offseason doesn't look any different than last, then I'll worry.

The Truth Monkey just let out a big one over this post.

It's as though people don't realize just how bad we were/are. When Pioli took over, the sign over the stadium read; "Arrowhead, Home Of The Laughing Stocks." He's supposed to turn that culture around in 12 months? That's crazy talk.

Besides, as mentioned, he has a lot more on his plate than just personnel issues. The Chiefs were a broken organization from top to bottom. Give the poor guy a little time to sort things out, I say.

FAX

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by FAX

The Truth Monkey just let out a big one over this post.

It's as though people don't realize just how bad we were/are. When Pioli took over, the sign over the stadium read; "Arrowhead, Home Of The Laughing Stocks." He's supposed to turn that culture around in 12 months? That's crazy talk.

Besides, as mentioned, he has a lot more on his plate than just personnel issues. The Chiefs were a broken organization from top to bottom. Give the poor guy a little time to sort things out, I say.

FAX

This question has been asked countless times, but who was asking for that to happen?

Tangent: "changing a culture" is an empty rhetorical phrase and is usually cited by those failing at their jobs. It's the line of choice, for example, for university presidents facing a vote of no confidence from the faculty.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The myth we should be talking about is the apparent fan expectation of a one-year turnaround from a franchise that's been in bad shape for over a decade. One offseason and people are throwing themselves off buildings, and trying to take the GM, coach and anybody else they can reach with them.

Maybe they'll fail. Maybe they won't. It's too soon to tell either way.

I really can't understand how anyone can see it any other way. It baffles me.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I really can't understand how anyone can see it any other way. It baffles me.

Let me help.

You think Haley is the right guy? After watching his progress with this team?
His play calling? The teams lack of progress? Seriously?

You think Cassel is the guy, after making us all pine for Thigpen or Huard?

Sometimes it is better to just cut bait, once you realize you have a stinkfish on the line.

Cut your losses and move on. I am still holding hope for Pioli, but right now if it were up to me, Cassel and Haley would both be moving on.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Let me help.

You think Haley is the right guy? After watching his progress with this team?
His play calling? The teams lack of progress? Seriously?

You think Cassel is the guy, after making us all pine for Thigpen or Huard?

Sometimes it is better to just cut bait, once you realize you have a stinkfish on the line.

Cut your losses and move on. I am still holding hope for Pioli, but right now if it were up to me, Cassel and Haley would both be moving on.

I know this thread is old news, but I left before i could answer this.

Haley, IS a leader. I can see it. I think that once we get over a hump, he will embrace them. Haven't you ever seen this before? You treat them like shit until they become what you knew they always could be, and then you let them know how proud you are of them.

Softy coaches, players coaches, like Hermie, and others, can not get the same thing out of player that a guy like Haley can.

When you ride guys like him, and expect nothing but perfection, they all think you are a total dick.

BUT

What they end up responding to, is how good they feel when they get the blessing, and praise from someone who seemingly cannot be pleased.
That praise and acknowledgement comes at a time when the players are feeling very high because they just accomplished something. Therefore, subconsciously the coaches happiness, and the feeling of achievement are linked. So When the coach is getting all over the players it makes them want to do better without them even knowing it.

psyche 101.


That said. The man needs 2 new coordinators BADLY. That will help the play calling.

Oh, and I never really said Cassel is the guy, but if he's not, he's the best backup in the league. We should bring someone in just in case, but i'm hoping he pans out. I think the amount of sacks he's taken over the last two seasons, may have screwed with his confidence. He looks like he got his card pulled. Maybe he'll get it back.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I know this thread is old news, but I left before i could answer this.

Haley, IS a leader. I can see it. I think that once we get over a hump, he will embrace them. Haven't you ever seen this before? You treat them like shit until they become what you knew they always could be, and then you let them know how proud you are of them.

Softy coaches, players coaches, like Hermie, and others, can not get the same thing out of player that a guy like Haley can.

When you ride guys like him, and expect nothing but perfection, they all think you are a total dick.

BUT

What they end up responding to, is how good they feel when they get the blessing, and praise from someone who seemingly cannot be pleased.
That praise and acknowledgement comes at a time when the players are feeling very high because they just accomplished something. Therefore, subconsciously the coaches happiness, and the feeling of achievement are linked. So When the coach is getting all over the players it makes them want to do better without them even knowing it.

psyche 101.


That said. The man needs 2 new coordinators BADLY. That will help the play calling.

Oh, and I never really said Cassel is the guy, but if he's not, he's the best backup in the league. We should bring someone in just in case, but i'm hoping he pans out, but I think the amount of sacks he's taken over the last two seasons, may have screwed with his confidence. He looks like he got his card pulled. Maybe he'll get it back.

I agree with what you are saying, except for a very important detail. It was said, by a CPer setting right behind the bench, that the players were disconnected. This is serious, when it comes to leadership.

They have probably been yelled at so much, it is falling on deaf ears. Several posters, Hamas being one of them, said this method would not work, if they didn't start getting some results. Well, they just got thrashed two weeks in a row.

The LEADER made two absolutely stupid calls in the game, back to back, to add to the problem.

You, as a player, go out and lay it all on the line the first half, and are down by one score. Ok, you get the ball to start the second half.
Then, to start the second half, he goes for it on 4th and 8, near his own 25? Then, to top that off, he refuses the penalty to get Denver out of field goal range?

As a player, you go WTF? We have no chance, and just disconnect from his tirades, or so it would seem. That is horrible leadership, you can not hold the players to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I know this thread is old news, but I left before i could answer this.

Haley, IS a leader. I can see it. I think that once we get over a hump, he will embrace them. Haven't you ever seen this before? You treat them like shit until they become what you knew they always could be, and then you let them know how proud you are of them.

Softy coaches, players coaches, like Hermie, and others, can not get the same thing out of player that a guy like Haley can.

When you ride guys like him, and expect nothing but perfection, they all think you are a total dick.

BUT

What they end up responding to, is how good they feel when they get the blessing, and praise from someone who seemingly cannot be pleased.
That praise and acknowledgement comes at a time when the players are feeling very high because they just accomplished something. Therefore, subconsciously the coaches happiness, and the feeling of achievement are linked. So When the coach is getting all over the players it makes them want to do better without them even knowing it.

psyche 101.


That said. The man needs 2 new coordinators BADLY. That will help the play calling.

Oh, and I never really said Cassel is the guy, but if he's not, he's the best backup in the league. We should bring someone in just in case, but i'm hoping he pans out. I think the amount of sacks he's taken over the last two seasons, may have screwed with his confidence. He looks like he got his card pulled. Maybe he'll get it back.

Herm's problems were the Xs and Os not with motivation. For whatever reason his players always played their ass off for him, now they sucked ass but they did play hard.

Damn I hate defending Herm Edwards.

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The myth we should be talking about is the apparent fan expectation of a one-year turnaround from a franchise that's been in bad shape for over a decade. One offseason and people are throwing themselves off buildings, and trying to take the GM, coach and anybody else they can reach with them.

Maybe they'll fail. Maybe they won't. It's too soon to tell either way.

Yeah, if the Pats demise is five years in the making, you're seeing the results of over 10 years of failure by Carl Peterson here.

Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, Dustin Colquitt, Derrick Johnson, Jarrad Page, and Dwayne Bowe are I believe the only guys left on this team drafted prior to '08. That's hardly a solid, veteran core group of players that you inherit that you can build around, and NONE of them play at the critical LOS positions (OL, DL) that good teams are built on...

[Titty Meat]

So we're ready to say Pioli sucks? Ya'll are drama queens.