Chiefs The Chiefs shouldn't select a QB in the 1st round - Page 52

kcbubb · 01-29-2009, 10:52 AM

The Chiefs should sign a free agent QB like Ryan Fitzpatrick. Or, if the Patriots would agree to it, swap first round picks with the Patriots for Matt Cassell.

The only defense in the league that was worse than the Chiefs was the 0-16 Detroit Lions. The Chiefs need, at a minimum, three new starters on defense (2 LB's & DE) if we stay in the 4-3. The Chiefs need defensive talent.

If the Chiefs do not swap first round picks with the Patriots for Cassell, the Chiefs would benefit the most by trading down and acquiring more picks and possibly getting more value out of their first round pick instead of reaching for a player. The Chiefs need defense with their first pick.

kcbubb · 02-04-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'd love to have 5 picks too, but that's not going to happen. Nobody's going to give up that much to move to our spot.

I agree. But most people on this board would rather have Sanchez than all those picks. My point is they aren't rational about the value of Sanchez. I understand that the QB is the most important position on the field, but a QB can only be as good as the team as he plays on.

milkman · 02-04-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

I agree. But most people on this board would rather have Sanchez than all those picks. My point is they aren't rational about the value of Sanchez. I understand that the QB is the most important position on the field, but a QB can only be as good as the team as he plays on.

And, of course, a team can not possibly build a team around a QB.

chiefzilla1501 · 02-04-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't understand what's so complicated about this and why I get so much shit for this. A house that was selling for $250,000 three years ago, would you pay $250,000 for that house today? Of course you wouldn't--that house is probably worth about $150,000-$200,000 today. If that's the way I negotiate, I have a great house for you to buy--I would love to sell it to you.

And yet, NFL GMs have standardized the price that they believe every pick is worth from year to year, even though some draft classes are graded as better than others. And so, Calvin Johnson carries the same trade value as Chris Long. I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend. You negotiate trade value based on the value of the players left on the board and that value should be different from year to year. And if you are not hot and heavy over anyone you have left, then you have to lower your trade value a bit to trade out of the pick.

When I say the trade chart is dumb, I am saying that it should be used as a guide, but most teams use it as a bible and will not accept any trade unless it strictly matches the chart. And for the record, I have said many times that the trade chart isn't horribly wrong, but in the top 3, the picks are grossly overvalued. That is a stance that most of you agree with, and yet are fighting me tooth and nail over. I'm not saying you hose yourself, but you have to be willing to show teams that you're willing to negotiate, even if that means you don't get full value from the draft chart. Teams are way too reluctant to do that and often times reluctantly reach for a player (i.e. Rams and Chris Long) or take a player they're not excited about (i.e. Alex Smith and the 49ers).

Anyway, I apologize... I don't want to launch into these long-winded re-explanations, but when people say the logic is dumb and unfounded, and when that point continues to pop up even when it is has no relevance to the thread, I'm going to react. You may not agree with the argument, but there's plenty of logic behind it. It's not an argument completely out of left field and it's not nearly the extreme "completely throw away the chart" argument people are exaggerating it to be.

RustShack · 02-04-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

I agree. But most people on this board would rather have Sanchez than all those picks. My point is they aren't rational about the value of Sanchez. I understand that the QB is the most important position on the field, but a QB can only be as good as the team as he plays on.

If we trade down then we wouldn't be able to get Stafford or Sanchez tool bag. Teams don't just pass on franchise QB's because some dumbass who doesn't know shit about prospects doesn't like a guy because of where Mel Kiper has him ranked.

ChiefRon · 02-04-2009, 09:59 AM

Since when do you pass on a franchise QB because you don't have a running game?

Who uses that logic anyway?

Chiefnj2 · 02-04-2009, 10:04 AM

If you have a chance to take a franchise QB you do so. The question is whether or not Pioli will feel like Sanchez is a franchise QB. A lot of amateur web draft gurus think he is worth the #3 pick, the NFL advisory committee didn't think as highly of him. I don't happen to think Pioli will take him, but if he does then I hope the kid can develop.

kcbubb · 02-04-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

If we trade down then we wouldn't be able to get Stafford or Sanchez tool bag. Teams don't just pass on franchise QB's because some dumbass who doesn't know shit about prospects doesn't like a guy because of where Mel Kiper has him ranked.

Again... You are missing my point. my point was not pass the QB because of the lack of running game. My point is that using Ryan and Flacco as a reason to take Sanchez is incorrect. Just because those players have been successful with their teams doesn't mean that they would have been with us. Nor does it mean that Sanchez will be a franchise QB with the Chiefs. It is a different situation. you have to evaluate it entirely in and of itself. You are also wrong about Kiper. Kiper has Sanchez ranked pretty high. He has the Chiefs selecting him.

milkman · 02-04-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Again... You are missing my point. my point was not pass the QB because of the lack of running game. My point is that using Ryan and Flacco as a reason to take Sanchez is incorrect. Just because those players have been successful with their teams doesn't mean that they would have been with us. Nor does it mean that Sanchez will be a franchise QB with the Chiefs. It is a different situation. you have to evaluate it entirely in and of itself. You are also wrong about Kiper. Kiper has Sanchez ranked pretty high. He has the Chiefs selecting him.

You draft a QB based solely on his potential.

If you feel that he can not succeed with the talent, or lack thereof, in place around him, you let him sit and learn for a year while you upgrade the talent.

You don't pass on a potential franchise QB because the rest of your team sucks.

ChiefRon · 02-04-2009, 10:42 AM

In fact, if your team sucks, it's probably because you don't have a franchise QB.

Also, who said we expect him to take us to the playoffs next year like Ryan/Flacco? And if he can't, we should pass on him? Is that your angle?

We're building this thing from the ground up, the franchise QB pick would be an investment for the next 10+ years hopefully, not just because it would be the pick with the most immediate impact...

Coogs · 02-04-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

You draft a QB based solely on his potential.

If you feel that he can not succeed with the talent, or lack thereof, in place around him, you let him sit and learn for a year while you upgrade the talent.

You don't pass on a potential franchise QB because the rest of your team sucks.

Exactly!

ChiefsCountry · 02-04-2009, 11:08 AM

Can you imagine being on Cowboys Planet in 1989? Hey we cant take Aikman, we got Steve Peuller. We need defense - Derrick Thomas is the way to go. Screw QB we got to take Tony Mandrich it all starts up front.

RustShack · 02-04-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Again... You are missing my point. my point was not pass the QB because of the lack of running game. My point is that using Ryan and Flacco as a reason to take Sanchez is incorrect. Just because those players have been successful with their teams doesn't mean that they would have been with us. Nor does it mean that Sanchez will be a franchise QB with the Chiefs. It is a different situation. you have to evaluate it entirely in and of itself. You are also wrong about Kiper. Kiper has Sanchez ranked pretty high. He has the Chiefs selecting him.

Your a ****ing idiot if you expect any rookie QB to be that successful right off the bat.

beach tribe · 02-04-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Again... You are missing my point. my point was not pass the QB because of the lack of running game. My point is that using Ryan and Flacco as a reason to take Sanchez is incorrect. Just because those players have been successful with their teams doesn't mean that they would have been with us. Nor does it mean that Sanchez will be a franchise QB with the Chiefs. It is a different situation. you have to evaluate it entirely in and of itself. You are also wrong about Kiper. Kiper has Sanchez ranked pretty high. He has the Chiefs selecting him.

God we get it. You think we should pass on a QB, which is absolutely ignorant. Let's build the team around Thigpen then. A guy who can't even run a pro-style offense.

ChiefRon · 02-04-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

God we get it. You think we should pass on a QB, which is absolutely ignorant. Let's build the team around Thigpen then. A guy who can't even run a pro-style offense.

But why? To try to make a push for the playoffs or something?

We're thinking long-term rebuilding, and some fans are thinking quick turnaround, a la Atlanta/Miami.

RustShack · 02-04-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon

But why? To try to make a push for the playoffs or something?

We're thinking long-term rebuilding, and some fans are thinking quick turnaround, a la Atlanta/Miami.

Those quick turn around guys are probably still crying that Carl left them.

01-29-2009, 10:52 AM
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $6066719	The Chiefs shouldn't select a QB in the 1st round The Chiefs should sign a free agent QB like Ryan Fitzpatrick. Or, if the Patriots would agree to it, swap first round picks with the Patriots for Matt Cassell. The only defense in the league that was worse than the Chiefs was the 0-16 Detroit Lions. The Chiefs need, at a minimum, three new starters on defense (2 LB's & DE) if we stay in the 4-3. The Chiefs need defensive talent. If the Chiefs do not swap first round picks with the Patriots for Cassell, the Chiefs would benefit the most by trading down and acquiring more picks and possibly getting more value out of their first round pick instead of reaching for a player. The Chiefs need defense with their first pick.
Posts: 2,367

02-04-2009, 09:59 AM	#770
ChiefRon Starter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Memphis, TN Casino cash: $10004900	Since when do you pass on a franchise QB because you don't have a running game? Who uses that logic anyway?
Posts: 924

02-04-2009, 10:04 AM	#771
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7823688	If you have a chance to take a franchise QB you do so. The question is whether or not Pioli will feel like Sanchez is a franchise QB. A lot of amateur web draft gurus think he is worth the #3 pick, the NFL advisory committee didn't think as highly of him. I don't happen to think Pioli will take him, but if he does then I hope the kid can develop. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,395

02-04-2009, 10:42 AM	#774
ChiefRon Starter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Memphis, TN Casino cash: $10004900	In fact, if your team sucks, it's probably because you don't have a franchise QB. Also, who said we expect him to take us to the playoffs next year like Ryan/Flacco? And if he can't, we should pass on him? Is that your angle? We're building this thing from the ground up, the franchise QB pick would be an investment for the next 10+ years hopefully, not just because it would be the pick with the most immediate impact...
Posts: 924

02-04-2009, 11:08 AM	#776
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $2048752	Can you imagine being on Cowboys Planet in 1989? Hey we cant take Aikman, we got Steve Peuller. We need defense - Derrick Thomas is the way to go. Screw QB we got to take Tony Mandrich it all starts up front.
Posts: 49,750