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Old 02-27-2013, 12:45 PM  
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Alex Smith did, does, and will always suck. (part 2)




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Last edited by DaFace; 12-17-2013 at 11:23 AM..
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:42 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
I could care less about yards except they exist as a function hopefully leading to a score. If Alex had less than 200 yards but made money plays on 3rd down and key plays to keep drives alive that's more important to me- making critical plays. So, maybe he gets us down to inside the 5 and Charles or Davis rush it in? He could have pedestrian numbers that wouldn't illustrate his play simply from a state sheet. No different than during our 1st part of the season he and the offense depended on the Defense and Special Teams to do a lot of the heavy sledding to get us to 9-0. Every game is going to be different from a proportional perspective in terms of helping or hurting our teams ability to win.

I will say this, there have definitely been games where his play hasn't done a whole lot to contribute to the team winning, but on the other hand I can't name 1 game where I would say he's had a negative impact as to why we lost- like you could clearly point out with Cassel last year, for example. He's had mediocre games, but his only game that we've lost that I would say he played poorly in was at Denver.
Good post.

Re: the bolded, we have quite a lot of local/in our face evidence that the formula we saw before the bye week is not a formula that leads to postseason success very often in the modern NFL (and really "NEVER" without an all-time great defensive unit)
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:43 PM   #302
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Yeah havIng a little faith in a guy who is playing at high level makes people giddy like a school girl.

Every post you have made for as long as I can remember point to someone who Expects Smith to Fail.
Yes, I'm skeptical. 1 playoff win in 8 years by a QB who was benched a dozen times in his career including last season for a 2nd year player does make me a little guarded. He also had a QB rating of about 80 after 8 weeks this year and was pretty medicore before this past 4 weeks or so. I hope the corner has been turned, but I'm not going all in yet.

I don't want to hear all the excuses again. I've heard them, now it's time to go out and perform against the big boys the next 3 weeks, hopefully longer.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:43 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Smith could lose a playoff game and convince me he IS good enough to win a title. (See: something like the San Diego game)

Smith could also win a playoff game and reinforce concerns about his ability to get enough done against elite teams to win a title. (see any of the games between Giants and Chargers games)

The team having a successful season isn't tied to Alex Smith being successful as the long-term, franchise QB for KC. Just like me enjoying the season as a fan isn't tied to believing Smith is the long-term answer.
Smith could very well prove to everyone that he is not good enough.

His accuracy slump he was in that he pulled out of almost had me expecting failure on his part which is basically the difference in the two sides here.

One expects him to Fail and be the reason we will not advance.
The other expects him to continue his current level of play.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
Nah, I just don't get giddy like a school girl with out QB over some success over shitty teams like some do.
Every good QB has had success against shitty teams this year. That's what good QBs do.

Did you know that, other than the Chiefs, the only team Peyton has beat this season, with a winning record, is Baltimore?
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:51 PM   #305
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Every good QB has had success against shitty teams this year. That's what good QBs do.

Did you know that, other than the Chiefs, the only team Peyton has beat this season, with a winning record, is Baltimore?
Well, I guess it's a good thing we don't have a decade and a half of data on Peyton to base an opinion on

Petyon Manning = 15 years of dominance and HOF'er

Alex Smith = 8 years of being up, down and all over the place including being benched multiple times and traded. Including a pretty shitty/medicore opening 8 games with the Chiefs(I think since he's improved off of that I can say this now without people jumping down my throat with 8-0)

One guy has something to prove and one doesn't. Do you see the difference, TrueFanDave?
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
I also would have no problem with paying him like a franchise QB if he proves he is one over the rest of this season and through the playoffs. Would be pretty happy about that, to be honest.
This is exactly my point.

This is nuts. Its absolutely insane. The guy has a 65 game track record of being the exact same QB he's been in KC. If he goes out there and throws for 500 yards and kicks Manning's ass in the AFC Championship game HE'S NOT SUDDENLY A FRANCHISE QB!

He's the same guy he was in the 65 games prior who had a really good game. Likewise, if the guy goes and plays a bad game, he's not suddenly Matt Cassel.

Tying what you think about Alex Smith to a playoff outcome is just crazy. 1, 2 or 3 games in January do not carry more weight than 60+ games over 5 seasons prior. They just don't. Thinking that they do is exactly what got a team like the Jets married to Mark Sanchez. Realizing that they don't is exactly what led the Denver Broncos to Peyton Manning.

Smith shouldn't be able to 'win you over' in the playoffs. It shouldn't be that easy to change your mind. You should be willing/able to look at what he's done as an NFL starting QB for half a decade and use that track record to draw your conclusions as to his long-term value to this franchise.

That track record is pretty clear on its face and to me it shows a slightly above average NFL quarterback. Regardless of what happens in January, that's what he is.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:55 PM   #307
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Be damned if i can find the post, but Duncan Idaho, i completely disagree... anytime you win a playoff game it says something good about your quarterbacks play.

Maybe he doesn't even throw a touchdown, but if you win it means he didn't make a critical mistake, see; Romo and Stafford this weekend.

A post like that tells me theres nothing that's going to sway your opinion of him, it sounds like a failsafe so that even if we win one, you can say "yeah we won, but it wasn't because of him".
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:56 PM   #308
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Be damned if i can find the post, but Duncan Idaho, i completely disagree... anytime you win a playoff game it says something good about your quarterbacks play.

Maybe he doesn't even throw a touchdown, but if you win it means he didn't make a critical mistake, see; Romo and Stafford this weekend.

A post like that tells me theres nothing that's going to sway your opinion of him, it sounds like a failsafe so that even if we win one, you can say "yeah we won, but it wasn't because of him".
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:58 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
Well, I guess it's a good thing we don't have a decade and a half of data on Peyton to base an opinion on

Petyon Manning = 15 years of dominance and HOF'er

Alex Smith = 8 years of being up, down and all over the place including being benched multiple times and traded. Including a pretty shitty opening 8 games with the Chiefs(I think since he's improved off of that I can say this now without people jumping down my throat with 8-0)

One guy has something to prove and one doesn't. Do you see the difference?
Alternatively you could say:

Alex Smith = 5 years of having a 90 passer rating, 7 yards/attempt and a 2-1 TD to INT ratio.

Smith's track record at this point is what it is. It's not as high a level as Mannings but it's no easier to discount. The guy has put together 5 years that, in aggregate, are as good as some of the 'elite' guys in this league but you still want to act like you can't trust 60+ nfl starts worth of data.

That's absurd. The guy's last 4 seasons average out to almost exactly what he's done this season. At some point you have to accept that as a baseline and stop bitching about who he's not. He's not Peyton Manning and he never will be. He is, however, exactly who he's been for the last 5 seasons.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:59 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
Well, I guess it's a good thing we don't have a decade and a half of data on Peyton to base an opinion on

Petyon Manning = 15 years of dominance and HOF'er

Alex Smith = 8 years of being up, down and all over the place including being benched multiple times and traded. Including a pretty shitty/medicore opening 8 games with the Chiefs(I think since he's improved off of that I can say this now without people jumping down my throat with 8-0)

One guy has something to prove and one doesn't. Do you see the difference, TrueFanDave?
Per usual, you've missed the point.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:00 PM   #311
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Trent Green and Alex are the only QB's in Chiefs history to have a perfect QB rating.

Alex completed 85% of his passes against the Fade-a Chiefs record.

But yeah he sucks-lol
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:01 PM   #312
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BigCatDaddy is not nearly as bad as Clay, that is obvious. I do think he goes a bit too far in his "skepticism," but who am I to judge.

Clay, on the other hand, is just a troll and should be ignored.

BCD - honest question. Do you truly want Alex Smith to succeed? If he wins a playoff game, a Super Bowl, is named MVP, becomes "elite" - that will mean your "formula" for obtaining a great QB will have been wrong.

What is more important to you, your love of the Chiefs or your pride in being right?
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:01 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
Well, I guess it's a good thing we don't have a decade and a half of data on Peyton to base an opinion on

Petyon Manning = 15 years of dominance and HOF'er

Alex Smith = 8 years of being up, down and all over the place including being benched multiple times and traded. Including a pretty shitty/medicore opening 8 games with the Chiefs(I think since he's improved off of that I can say this now without people jumping down my throat with 8-0)

One guy has something to prove and one doesn't. Do you see the difference, TrueFanDave?
I guess if I thought that Smith had not developed into a much better QB than he was 4 years ago I would probably think just like you.
Fortunately It's obvious to me that he is a MUCH better player now.

And BTW. We have 15 years of tape of Manning choking in the playoffs even as recently as last season.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:01 PM   #314
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Nah, I just don't get giddy like a school girl with out QB over some success over shitty teams like some do.
Yet last week you were on Geno's nuts for beating Oakland
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:03 PM   #315
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And for the love of God, i'm just so tired of hearing about all of the awful, terrible teams we beat, so therefore those wins mean nothing... that is the craziest sounding shit to me.

Every team has talent and/or good coaching even if just at the positional level, every bad team beats a good team, every single week of every single year... there isn't a SINGLE gimme game in the NFL, particularly when talking about division rival games.

The "he hasn't beaten anyone" line is absolutely maddening, there are no college teams in the NFL, every win counts... to me its 100% garbage.
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