RIP Paul Walker

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

another thing about this wreck, if I was a betting man, I'd bet drugs and alcohol were definitely part of the equation...

Death Car May Have Malfunctioned
12/2/2013 6:25 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF
Exclusive
1201_walker_car_rodas_tmz_facebookThe exotic sports car in which Paul Walker violently died, crashed as a result of mechanical failure -- very possibly a steering fluid leak ... this according to sources closely tied to the auto shop where the vehicle was stored and maintained.

Sources connected to Always Evolving -- the shop co-owned by Walker and the Porsche driver Roger Rodas -- tell TMZ they saw evidence of a fluid burst and subsequent fluid trail before the skid marks at the accident scene.

The AE sources point to the fact there is a noticeable absence of skid marks until just before the point of impact. They say if Roger had lost control the skid marks would show swerving, but instead the marks were in a straight line. They feel this cements the theory the driver didn't have steering control.

Also suspicious -- the fire spreading so quickly in the front of the car. The sources say flames would be expected in the rear where the engine is ... but fire in the front reinforces their theory of a fluid leak of some sort.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/02/paul-w...#ixzz2mMPK5UTQ

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Death Car May Have Malfunctioned
12/2/2013 6:25 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF
Exclusive
1201_walker_car_rodas_tmz_facebookThe exotic sports car in which Paul Walker violently died, crashed as a result of mechanical failure -- very possibly a steering fluid leak ... this according to sources closely tied to the auto shop where the vehicle was stored and maintained.

Sources connected to Always Evolving -- the shop co-owned by Walker and the Porsche driver Roger Rodas -- tell TMZ they saw evidence of a fluid burst and subsequent fluid trail before the skid marks at the accident scene.

The AE sources point to the fact there is a noticeable absence of skid marks until just before the point of impact. They say if Roger had lost control the skid marks would show swerving, but instead the marks were in a straight line. They feel this cements the theory the driver didn't have steering control.

Also suspicious -- the fire spreading so quickly in the front of the car. The sources say flames would be expected in the rear where the engine is ... but fire in the front reinforces their theory of a fluid leak of some sort.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/02/paul-w...#ixzz2mMPK5UTQ

meh, sounds to me like these guys are at the very least, non objective in their opinions. They may never be able to get an autopsy due to the remains being burned up but still, I wouldn't be surprised if drugs or/and alcohol might have been involved.

[CrazyPhuD]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Death Car May Have Malfunctioned
12/2/2013 6:25 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF
Exclusive
1201_walker_car_rodas_tmz_facebookThe exotic sports car in which Paul Walker violently died, crashed as a result of mechanical failure -- very possibly a steering fluid leak ... this according to sources closely tied to the auto shop where the vehicle was stored and maintained.

Sources connected to Always Evolving -- the shop co-owned by Walker and the Porsche driver Roger Rodas -- tell TMZ they saw evidence of a fluid burst and subsequent fluid trail before the skid marks at the accident scene.

The AE sources point to the fact there is a noticeable absence of skid marks until just before the point of impact. They say if Roger had lost control the skid marks would show swerving, but instead the marks were in a straight line. They feel this cements the theory the driver didn't have steering control.

Also suspicious -- the fire spreading so quickly in the front of the car. The sources say flames would be expected in the rear where the engine is ... but fire in the front reinforces their theory of a fluid leak of some sort.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/02/paul-w...#ixzz2mMPK5UTQ

Heh the person who wrote that doesn't really understand how cars work(or at least the person who released that). Power steering fluid leaks are not a point of critical failure. If you lose fluid you don't lose steering, you lose power assist to your steering which means the wheel becomes noticeably harder to turn. He would still have been able to turn, just not usually as sharply as if with power steering. If he didn't turn it wasn't a power steering fluid 'leak'.

It might have been a linkage failure or some other issue but not simply fluid...

[Anyong Bluth]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

Heh the person who wrote that doesn't really understand how cars work(or at least the person who released that). Power steering fluid leaks are not a point of critical failure. If you lose fluid you don't lose steering, you lose power assist to your steering which means the wheel becomes noticeably harder to turn. He would still have been able to turn, just not usually as sharply as if with power steering. If he didn't turn it wasn't a power steering fluid 'leak'.

It might have been a linkage failure or some other issue but not simply fluid...

Ya and it wouldn't be instantaneous either. You'd have to do a full rotation of the steering wheel in both directions to their maximum to bleed out all the steering fluid. It just doesn't work like that and typically gets stiffer and stiffer as you continue to drive - doesn't just seize up all of a sudden.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

Heh the person who wrote that doesn't really understand how cars work(or at least the person who released that). Power steering fluid leaks are not a point of critical failure. If you lose fluid you don't lose steering, you lose power assist to your steering which means the wheel becomes noticeably harder to turn. He would still have been able to turn, just not usually as sharply as if with power steering. If he didn't turn it wasn't a power steering fluid 'leak'.

It might have been a linkage failure or some other issue but not simply fluid...

I think we would need to know more about the technology Porsche uses in a new Carrera GT before we can determine what did or didn't cause it.

I'm probably wrong, but i'd think a $500K Porsche super car is a bit more complex than your everyday chevy.

[CrazyPhuD]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I think we would need to know more about the technology Porsche uses in a new Carrera GT before we can determine what did or didn't cause it.

I'm probably wrong, but i'd think a $500K Porsche super car is a bit more complex than your everyday chevy.

I would say extremely unlikely in this case. While I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time I could find the manuals/exploded parts diagrams to be 100% definitive. I'm about 99% sure it's traditional steering setup. Why? Because the only way it's really a critical error is if it's steer by wire system, frankly I'm not sure anyone is doing that yet.

The primary reason(especially for sports/supercars) is feel. With direct linkage you feel the car and feel the road, if your steering doesn't have a direct linkage to the wheels you lose feeling and have numb steering which is quite bad for performance driving. Hell the Porsche community was up in arms when the 997 came out because it was coming with electronic steering assist versus hydraulic.

People used to hate on electric power steering assist because it gave that 'numb' feeling. For any supercar that's meant to be raced/tracked it would be unheard of to remove the driver feedback by unlinking the steering, much less a Porsche.

Steering links could have broken which would have disabled it, but no way a loss of fluid alone caused a loss of steering control. The mechanical connection would have still been there.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

I would say extremely unlikely in this case. While I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time I could find the manuals/exploded parts diagrams to be 100% definitive. I'm about 99% sure it's traditional steering setup. Why? Because the only way it's really a critical error is if it's steer by wire system, frankly I'm not sure anyone is doing that yet.

The primary reason(especially for sports/supercars) is feel. With direct linkage you feel the car and feel the road, if your steering doesn't have a direct linkage to the wheels you lose feeling and have numb steering which is quite bad for performance driving. Hell the Porsche community was up in arms when the 997 came out because it was coming with electronic steering assist versus hydraulic.

People used to hate on electric power steering assist because it gave that 'numb' feeling. For any supercar that's meant to be raced/tracked it would be unheard of to remove the driver feedback by unlinking the steering, much less a Porsche.

Steering links could have broken which would have disabled it, but no way a loss of fluid alone caused a loss of steering control. The mechanical connection would have still been there.

and USUALLY at speed its still fairly easy to turn the wheel

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

I would say extremely unlikely in this case. While I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time I could find the manuals/exploded parts diagrams to be 100% definitive. I'm about 99% sure it's traditional steering setup. Why? Because the only way it's really a critical error is if it's steer by wire system, frankly I'm not sure anyone is doing that yet.

The primary reason(especially for sports/supercars) is feel. With direct linkage you feel the car and feel the road, if your steering doesn't have a direct linkage to the wheels you lose feeling and have numb steering which is quite bad for performance driving. Hell the Porsche community was up in arms when the 997 came out because it was coming with electronic steering assist versus hydraulic.

People used to hate on electric power steering assist because it gave that 'numb' feeling. For any supercar that's meant to be raced/tracked it would be unheard of to remove the driver feedback by unlinking the steering, much less a Porsche.

Steering links could have broken which would have disabled it, but no way a loss of fluid alone caused a loss of steering control. The mechanical connection would have still been there.

Lets say it is a traditional power steering set up (I agree, it most likely is), then it's not unreasonable to believe that there could have been a failure in a steering line. The pumps i deal with at work can put out as much as 2200PSI, which is certainly enough to turn a small leak into a complete bust if it's leaking from the fitting/hose end.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that we don't know enough to dismiss what the report is saying.

I know my Trans Am is a pain in the ass to steer when i lose power steering, i could only imagine how difficult it would be to steer it around a corner at 120+ MPH.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Lets say it is a traditional power steering set up (I agree, it most likely is), then it's not unreasonable to believe that there could have been a failure in a steering line. The pumps i deal with at work can put out as much as 2200PSI, which is certainly enough to turn a small leak into a complete bust if it's leaking from the fitting/hose end.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that we don't know enough to dismiss what the report is saying.

I know my Trans Am is a pain in the ass to steer when i lose power steering, i could only imagine how difficult it would be to steer it around a corner at 120+ MPH.

again there would be less tire friction at those speeds and it wouldn't be as hard to turn as one would think IMO.

I think the bigger question is if the fluid caught fire and caused something to explode

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Lets say it is a traditional power steering set up (I agree, it most likely is), then it's not unreasonable to believe that there could have been a failure in a steering line. The pumps i deal with at work can put out as much as 2200PSI, which is certainly enough to turn a small leak into a complete bust if it's leaking from the fitting/hose end.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that we don't know enough to dismiss what the report is saying.

I know my Trans Am is a pain in the ass to steer when i lose power steering, i could only imagine how difficult it would be to steer it around a corner at 120+ MPH.

It's easier to steer when the car is moving faster than at low speeds if you lose power steering (I had a POS trans am that had it's power steering go out and my caddy had some power steering issues for a while as well).

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Race Card native

It's easier to steer when the car is moving faster than at low speeds if you lose power steering (I had a POS trans am that had it's power steering go out and my caddy had some power steering issues for a while as well).

q

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I think we would need to know more about the technology Porsche uses in a new Carrera GT before we can determine what did or didn't cause it.

I'm probably wrong, but i'd think a $500K Porsche super car is a bit more complex than your everyday chevy.

It wasn't a new one. 2006-2008. Brand new they were a million IIRC


And they were bad ass. Should be a carbon fiber monocoque.


Edit: just looked it up. Pure carbon fiber monocoque and subframe. They were hauling balls to cause that much damage. Also, not buying power steering leak as the cause. Driver error is my bet.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by Race Card native

It wasn't a new one. 2006-2008. Brand new they were a million IIRC


And they were bad ass. Should be a carbon fiber monocoque.


Edit: just looked it up. Pure carbon fiber monocoque and subframe. They were hauling balls to cause that much damage. Also, not buying power steering leak as the cause. Driver error is my bet.

Driver error is the most logical, but according to reports, it would also mean he drove straight ahead into (whatever it was that he hit).

If there was a stream of fluid before the impact and no tire marks....that COULD mean mechanical error.

[CrazyPhuD]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Driver error is the most logical, but according to reports, it would also mean he drove straight ahead into (whatever it was that he hit).

If there was a stream of fluid before the impact and no tire marks....that COULD mean mechanical error.

Or the car realized it was about to die and pissed itself before impact.
(sorry couldn't resist. )

Frankly if there's any fluid loss that could have caused said event I would put my money more on a brake fluid loss.

If the driver lost it and realized it was going badly and put both feet in but the brakes were gone the resultant confusion might have lasted long enough for him not to turn depending upon how fast he went.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

Or the car realized it was about to die and pissed itself before impact.
(sorry couldn't resist. )

Frankly if there's any fluid loss that could have caused said event I would put my money more on a brake fluid loss.

If the drive lost it and realized it was going badly and put both feet in but the brakes were gone the resultant confusion might have lasted long enough for him not to turn depending upon how fast he went.

wasn't the driver a well qualified driver? experienced?

I would think (here goes me thinking) he would know how to react in that situation.