Camera Suggestions?

[kepp]

OK...more questions about indoor sports photography. I tried some more manual settings this weekend and didn't get great results. In most of the photos, the subject's center mass was in focus nicely, but the arms/legs were blurry. I was told by a photog that was there that I need to up my ISO to freeze the motion better. I've been reading through the 20D manual...are shutter speed and ISO the same thing? It says that ISO is the sensitivity to light, whereas shutter speed is how fast the shutter opens/closes. In some places though, it seems they're used interchangeably. So, based on the manual and reading some forum posts, here are some settings that I'm going to try next. Any thoughts/suggestions?:

--AF Mode--
AI Servo with automatic AF point selection

--Program Mode--
1. Tv mode (shutter priority)
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600 and allow the camera to auto-set the aperture
-if the aperture gets set too narrow (probably 3.5 or narrower), try option 2

2. Manual exposure mode
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600
-set aperture width to 2.8
-make adjustments based on the exposure level meter

3. Tv mode with exposure compensation
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600 and allow the camera to auto-set the aperture
-raise or lower the exposure compensation based on the exposure level meter
-this option is not available in manual exposure mode

--White Balance--
Most gyms will use either white fluorescent or tungsten lighting.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by kepp

OK...more questions about indoor sports photography. I tried some more manual settings this weekend and didn't get great results. In most of the photos, the subject's center mass was in focus nicely, but the arms/legs were blurry. I was told by a photog that was there that I need to up my ISO to freeze the motion better. I've been reading through the 20D manual...are shutter speed and ISO the same thing? It says that ISO is the sensitivity to light, whereas shutter speed is how fast the shutter opens/closes. In some places though, it seems they're used interchangeably. So, based on the manual and reading some forum posts, here are some settings that I'm going to try next. Any thoughts/suggestions?:

--AF Mode--
AI Servo with automatic AF point selection

--Program Mode--
1. Tv mode (shutter priority)
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600 and allow the camera to auto-set the aperture
-if the aperture gets set too narrow (probably 3.5 or narrower), try option 2

2. Manual exposure mode
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600
-set aperture width to 2.8
-make adjustments based on the exposure level meter

3. Tv mode with exposure compensation
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600 and allow the camera to auto-set the aperture
-raise or lower the exposure compensation based on the exposure level meter
-this option is not available in manual exposure mode

--White Balance--
Most gyms will use either white fluorescent or tungsten lighting.

I find the easy way is to set what you know, and let it go. Try this:

1) Set the ISO to 1600 (or H if you're willing to try) so the camera can fire as quickly as possible.
2) Set the camera to AV mode and manually set it to 2.8 (or the brightest setting you have, which should be 2.8), and that should help with getting the shutter speed as fast as the camera can go.

While that will minimize the DoF (the 2.8 part), the ISO of 1600/H will do about all you can do to limit the fast-moving-parts from blurring (if that's what you want).

But I'd recommend the AV because it lets you control the 2.8 part of the lens you just spend so much money on (for its 2.8 ability), but keeps the camera's brains in the mix beyond that.

[kepp]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I find the easy way is to set what you know, and let it go. Try this:

1) Set the ISO to 1600 (or H if you're willing to try) so the camera can fire as quickly as possible.
2) Set the camera to AV mode and manually set it to 2.8 (or the brightest setting you have, which should be 2.8), and that should help with getting the shutter speed as fast as the camera can go.

While that will minimize the DoF (the 2.8 part), the ISO of 1600/H will do about all you can do to limit the fast-moving-parts from blurring (if that's what you want).

But I'd recommend the AV because it lets you control the 2.8 part of the lens you just spend so much money on (for its 2.8 ability), but keeps the camera's brains in the mix beyond that.

I didn't know I could manually set the ISO when in AV mode. I had it in AV mode for a while, with the aperture set to 2.8, and the camera kept setting the ISO (or maybe shutter speed) to 60 or 80. I knew that was way too slow to stop any motion, so I stopped using that mode. I'll try out your suggestions.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by kepp

I didn't know I could manually set the ISO when in AV mode. I had it in AV mode for a while, with the aperture set to 2.8, and the camera kept setting the ISO (or maybe shutter speed) to 60 or 80. I knew that was way too slow to stop any motion, so I stopped using that mode. I'll try out your suggestions.

In AV mode, with you having set/forced the aperture to 2.8, the camera sets the shutter speed to whatever it needs to based on the other thing you had "set" (the ISO). So set the aperture to 2.8 (fast/bright as we say), the ISO to 1600/H (fast), and the camera will/should set the shutter speed to something a lot faster than a 60th or 80th of a second. Then again, I'm not sure how dark the gym was. If you PM me one of the original pics (with EXIF data still attached), I'll take a look...

[kepp]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

In AV mode, with you having set/forced the aperture to 2.8, the camera sets the shutter speed to whatever it needs to based on the other thing you had "set" (the ISO). So set the aperture to 2.8 (fast/bright as we say), the ISO to 1600/H (fast), and the camera will/should set the shutter speed to something a lot faster than a 60th or 80th of a second. Then again, I'm not sure how dark the gym was. If you PM me one of the original pics (with EXIF data still attached), I'll take a look...

I see...that makes sense. The gym really didn't seem that dark to me on the floor. I think what may have been happening was that the background walls (by the bleachers) didn't have good lighting and maybe the camera was picking up on that. I'm shooting in 'L', not 'L + RAW', so I don't know that I have the EXIF data you're talking about.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by kepp

I see...that makes sense. The gym really didn't seem that dark to me on the floor. I think what may have been happening was that the background walls (by the bleachers) didn't have good lighting and maybe the camera was picking up on that. I'm shooting in 'L', not 'L + RAW', so I don't know that I have the EXIF data you're talking about.

Everything you shoot with it has EXIF data. If you've downloaded them you can go into the folder in Windows Explorer (unless you have a Mac), right-click on the picture, go to properties, select the Details tab, and you should have the EXIF data there too.

If you're using the SW that came with the camera, there should be a shit-ton of data there too..

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by kepp

OK...more questions about indoor sports photography. I tried some more manual settings this weekend and didn't get great results. In most of the photos, the subject's center mass was in focus nicely, but the arms/legs were blurry. I was told by a photog that was there that I need to up my ISO to freeze the motion better. I've been reading through the 20D manual...are shutter speed and ISO the same thing? It says that ISO is the sensitivity to light, whereas shutter speed is how fast the shutter opens/closes. In some places though, it seems they're used interchangeably. So, based on the manual and reading some forum posts, here are some settings that I'm going to try next. Any thoughts/suggestions?:

--AF Mode--
AI Servo with automatic AF point selection

--Program Mode--
1. Tv mode (shutter priority)
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600 and allow the camera to auto-set the aperture
-if the aperture gets set too narrow (probably 3.5 or narrower), try option 2

2. Manual exposure mode
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600
-set aperture width to 2.8
-make adjustments based on the exposure level meter

3. Tv mode with exposure compensation
-set ISO speed to 800 or 1600 and allow the camera to auto-set the aperture
-raise or lower the exposure compensation based on the exposure level meter
-this option is not available in manual exposure mode

--White Balance--
Most gyms will use either white fluorescent or tungsten lighting.

I'm not familiar with the 20D at all, but I've enjoyed using AV mode with my 60D quite a bit. It seems pretty accurate and is making me look better than I am.

I would think you'd want to set the focus to fixed center so you're in control and the camera can't try to grab the bars or whatever other apparatus you're working around. You may be far enough away you've got enough depth to account for the error though.

Every gym, church, and dungeon is going to be lit differently. I'd try to learn to get the WB set correctly each time you enter a gym instead of trusting it to get close based on what kind of lights and lighting the building has.

[kepp]

Originally Posted by ghak99

I'm not familiar with the 20D at all, but I've enjoyed using AV mode with my 60D quite a bit. It seems pretty accurate and is making me look better than I am.

I would think you'd want to set the focus to fixed center so you're in control and the camera can't try to grab the bars or whatever other apparatus you're working around. You may be far enough away you've got enough depth to account for the error though.

Every gym, church, and dungeon is going to be lit differently. I'd try to learn to get the WB set correctly each time you enter a gym instead of trusting it to get close based on what kind of lights and lighting the building has.

I'm definitely going to try this. I've been mistaking shutter speed for ISO when in AV mode. So when the aperture was set to 2.8, it was using a slow shutter speed because the ISO was set too low (I never set it). This clears some things up for me.

I also read some comments from some people that said you don't need to use image stabilization when using high ISO/fast shutter speeds? Does it really matter either way?

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by kepp

I'm definitely going to try this. I've been mistaking shutter speed for ISO when in AV mode. So when the aperture was set to 2.8, it was using a slow shutter speed because the ISO was set too low (I never set it). This clears some things up for me.

I also read some comments from some people that said you don't need to use image stabilization when using high ISO/fast shutter speeds? Does it really matter either way?

All things being equal, and you want to take a big step, if you shoot RAW, you can fix the color later... But they are big pics and can't do much about burned (over exposed) or dark (under exposed) pics. But knowing how to set the white balance is always something good to know. And I think learning this and keeping white paper with you might be simpler that learning end remember all the numbers associated with various color and light temperatures.

Watch these:



And this one has bracketing too. Kinda cool too!

[kepp]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

All things being equal, and you want to take a big step, if you shoot RAW, you can fix the color later... But they are big pics and can't do much about burned (over exposed) or dark (under exposed) pics. But knowing how to set the white balance is always something good to know. And I think learning this and keeping white paper with you might be simpler that learning end remember all the numbers associated with various color and light temperatures.

Watch these:

Thanks, I'll watch those.

So I took the camera to my daughter's practice and made the adjustments...set the ISO to H (3200 I believe) and used AV mode with aperture set to 2.8. HUGE DIFFERENCE! No blurry pics save for the ones where I was just off target. It froze flips and back handsprings perfectly with no blurring. Thanks for the help everyone. Its good that I'm getting this down, because I think some parents thought I was just some perv that came in off the streets with a telephoto lens.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by kepp

Thanks, I'll watch those.

So I took the camera to my daughter's practice and made the adjustments...set the ISO to H (3200 I believe) and used AV mode with aperture set to 2.8. HUGE DIFFERENCE! No blurry pics save for the ones where I was just off target. It froze flips and back handsprings perfectly with no blurring. Thanks for the help everyone. Its good that I'm getting this down, because I think some parents thought I was just some perv that came in off the streets with a telephoto lens.

Sweet... Next you'll want to "grasp" on focus point (in non-servo mode), and focusing in the servo/one-shot modes.

Once you find which of those make you happiest, then moving into metering (center weighted or more averaging) will be sweet..

Know this, digital or film, light and lighting is the biggest part of photography. So learning how to manipulate light is what it's all about. And dealing with flash And yeah, you can flash in a gym too if you get a good one, and you'll find out how much progress you've made. And I think you can get a really good grasp of most of it by just writing down the things you want to learn, and focus on just that for a day or two.

[Dartgod]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Sweet... Next you'll want to "grasp" on focus point (in non-servo mode), and focusing in the servo/one-shot modes.

Once you find which of those make you happiest, then moving into metering (center weighted or more averaging) will be sweet..

Know this, digital or film, light and lighting is the biggest part of photography. So learning how to manipulate light is what it's all about. And dealing with flash And yeah, you can flash in a gym too if you get a good one, and you'll find out how much progress you've made. And I think you can get a really good grasp of most of it by just writing down the things you want to learn, and focus on just that for a day or two.

I've had my D3100 for a couple of years now and really haven't learned to use it to its capabilities. Can you recommend a good website that will cover some of the intermediate/advanced subjects?