A mock draft that will make your heads explode

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

it's absolutely a waste...and it is cowardly and dumb to boot

the economic argument you are making is better applied to the QB position...draft one, it costs basically nothing

LBs aren't important, QBs are....and we've waited 30 freaking years for one

nevermind that te'o isn't even close to being the best lb to come out in years...

Cassel and Quinn and you want a LB with the #1 pick in the draft

Drafting the most talented player in the draft, is never dumb. Especially if he fits a position of need. Drafting a bust QB who will never play, is dumb. Ask the Jaguars if they'd like to have that Blaine Gabbert pick back, I'm sure they'd love to, and Gabbert was a decent college guy, had a good combine, and posted up an amazing wonderlic. Who would have thought he'd suck in the NFL? I did, because I saw something in that kid I didn't like.

I am not arguing FOR drafting Te'o, if you believe that, you clearly cannot read. I'm simply playing devils advocate and saying I am not OPPOSED to drafting him, like some of you are. I'm not advocating drafting for safety either, I'm all for taking a shot at a guy here. But you don't pass up what could be the best ILB for the next decade, all because you're needy at QB. You don't even get that right to make an argument against that since you didn't even start your 2nd year QB this year. If Geno or Barkley or whoever doesn't just absolutely blow the world away in Pro Day and Combine workouts, you can't just haphazardly throw that pick away because you need a QB.

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Linebackers don't win games, QBs DO. How many games has Derrick Johnson won for us throughout his career? How many has ray Lewis won for Baltimore?

Linebackers stop the run.... And today is a passing league.

In todays NFL You get a QB and build the team around him.

DJ has won 2 or 3 games for us if I'm not mistaken, but that is actually beside the point here. It certainly is a QB driven league, but the QB is not the only man on the field. You don't win games if you give up 30-40 a game, so the argument of "QB's win games, X position doesn't" is moot. Do you think the Vikings go to the playoffs without AP? No. Do the Texans make the playoffs without Arian Foster? Not a ****ing chance in the world. Do the ravens go to the playoffs without Rice? Not going to happen. Does Seattle go to the playoffs without Lynch? Yeah ****ing right, and Russel wouldn't look nearly as good without him.

In all honesty, there are VERY FEW QB's in this league you can make that argument for them winning games. Brady, Mannings, Rodgers, Ryan(despite the lack of playoff wins) sure, and most of them are in the playoffs. But half of them also have a solid ground game too.

It isn't always about the QBs on the teams, but it is about the WHOLE team functioning as one unit. Having a solid running game and solid defense, will win you more games than not, and help pave the way to a playoff run. After all, I don't give a **** if we make the playoffs to get blown out by the Colts, I want to win a playoff game for a change, and that is going to require us to have a solid defense and a good QB. Of which we have neither right now.

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

And do you know how many of those there have been in the past 30 years?

Two.

John Elway and Andrew Luck.

That's it.

So you are willing to wait around another 30 years and hope we have the first pick in the draft when they come around?

(And if you don't remember, there were a couple of guys taken after Elway who ended up in the Hall of Fame that weren't "lights out, guaranteed not to **** this up" type of players. In fact, that's why they were drafted behind a guy named Todd Blackledge.)



You obviously don't remember the Derrick Johnson who played for the Chiefs under Herm Edwards. The guy was basically a lazy, out of shape first round bust and was actually benched by Haley for sucking so bad.

Seriously? Two? Are you a Stanford Homer or something? There's been much more than "two", and Elway isn't even in the top 5 of the list in that timespan.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't take a QB, I'm saying that I'm not opposed to taking Te'O if no QB truly shines, and Te'o looks like a golden goose.

And yes, I remember a young DJ under Herm, I remember the rest of the team under Herm too, you aren't placing all of this on DJ are you? lol.

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

"oh noes, it risky! draft LB for value"

I remember that same argument coming up in 2009 when we took Tyson Jackson over Aaron Curry, up until this year, that pick looked to be wrong as well. Who knows, maybe we'll bring Curry in this off season and see if he can earn a spot lol.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Here, let me help you with this...

Jesus kid, let it go lol.

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

You won't oppose it because you are reeruned. Seriously Teo is not that ****ing good, Why not a punter with the first overall, or a long snapper?

Thats about the only position that has worse value or impact on a game that a non-pass rushing ILB in a 3-4. JFC the stupid is strong this year.

Is this some kinda weird catholic thing or something? Please say yes so I can understand that you aren't completely reeruned just deluded.

No, I don't opposed it because IF, and that is certainly the big qualifier here, you idiot, IF it just so happens that Geno and Matt don't grade out well in the Combine and Te'o does, the smart choice is to go after Te'o if we have no other option like trading our pick to a team needy of an LT or DE.

You say that the least impact player in a 3-4 is the ILB, but DJ happens to be a pro bowler, happens to be our best defensive player, no questions asked. Without him, our defense crumbles to shit, and it isn't just talent.

You are aware that the ILB is basically the QB of the Defense, his role is more important than any other on the team defensively.

It certainly is hard to envision us worse than we are now, but without DJ we'd certainly be 0-16 no doubt about it.



Again, to reiterate my point here. I AM ALL FOR GETTING A QB IF HE IS WORTH IT, I AM HOWEVER NOT AGAINST TAKING TE'O IF HE IS AS GOOD AS EVERYONE THINKS HE IS.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Seriously? Two? Are you a Stanford Homer or something? There's been much more than "two", and Elway isn't even in the top 5 of the list in that timespan.

Name the five.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't take a QB, I'm saying that I'm not opposed to taking Te'O if no QB truly shines, and Te'o looks like a golden goose.

I know it's hard, but try to listen...he's a goddamn 34 Mike backer. The position itself isn't worth the pick. The position itself isn't worth any pick in the first round.

And yes, I remember a young DJ under Herm, I remember the rest of the team under Herm too, you aren't placing all of this on DJ are you? lol.

No, but you seem to be in terms of your argument. And Johnson plays a different position. If you've already got an All-Pro level guy at the WILL, pissing away a first rounder, let alone the overall #1 pick, is ignorant at best.

[ChiefRocka]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Oh my dear god what?

If Te'o ends up throwing a score of 8 on the board, I want nothing to do with him.

I'm not sure how much you actually know about the game of football, but you need intelligent players at the MLB/ILB and Safety positions. So if Geno Smith goes out there and has a bad combine, throws up a below average Wonderlic, and Te'o tears it up and posts a 25+ Wonderlic, I'm not going to be surprised at all if we draft him. Nor would I oppose it.

Matt Cassel is smart. Your post, not so much...

[Thig Lyfe]

[threebag]

I'd give he a false phone number on porpoise.

Originally Posted by Thig Lyfe

[the Talking Can]

spending the #1 pick in the draft on a non-pass rushing lb is so ****ing reeruned it offends the reeruned....

our QBs are Cassel and Quinn....

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

spending the #1 pick in the draft on a non-pass rushing lb is so ****ing reeruned it offends the reeruned....

our QBs are Cassel and Quinn....

Why? This isn't the same NFL where your first round pick gets a billion dollars, so salary is out of the question. We are in the AFC West where up until last year, the only passing QB worth legitimately building a defense to compete against was Phillip Rivers, completely laughable. Pass Rush isn't that big of a concern here in the west as it is in the AFC South as an example. Despite that, we have Hali and Houston already covered, and in our 3-4, anything else is just depth or rotation, which we could better utilize. I don't want us drafting a Left Tackle because I believe Albert is our guy and we need to give him a contract and plant him here for the foreseeable future. We need a QB but there isn't a "lights out, guaranteed to not **** this up" QB on the board, and since there isn't one, the likelihood that we draft a QB is up in the air.

Believe me, I want a QB as much as the next guy, but I'm playing devils advocate here for Te'o, and saying I'm not opposed to it.

People need to get their heads wrapped around the way personnel works now with the CBA. It is no longer a "waste" to draft an MLB/ILB in the top 5, top 10, or even the top pick. Especially if that guy has the potential to be at or near the top of his position for the next 5-8 years. By all means draft him.

We picked DJ with our 15th pick in '05, he's been an absolute beacon of hope for this defense since he got here. I am not opposed to spending our #1 draft pick we sucked so hard to get, on a guy who by all measures, could turn into a DJ clone. Why the hell wouldn't you take that?

Like I said, we have a long way to go with pro days, senior bowl, combine, etc. to figure this out, but why automatically rule out Te'o with the #1 pick, just because it isn't commonplace to draft an ILB/MLB there?

That is ignorant, lets see how the kid measures first and not automatically rule people out because of where we are picking. Aside from QB, ILB and CB are probably our biggest concerns for immediate need on this team.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Why? This isn't the same NFL where your first round pick gets a billion dollars, so salary is out of the question. We are in the AFC West where up until last year, the only passing QB worth legitimately building a defense to compete against was Phillip Rivers, completely laughable. Pass Rush isn't that big of a concern here in the west as it is in the AFC South as an example. Despite that, we have Hali and Houston already covered, and in our 3-4, anything else is just depth or rotation, which we could better utilize. I don't want us drafting a Left Tackle because I believe Albert is our guy and we need to give him a contract and plant him here for the foreseeable future. We need a QB but there isn't a "lights out, guaranteed to not **** this up" QB on the board, and since there isn't one, the likelihood that we draft a QB is up in the air.

Believe me, I want a QB as much as the next guy, but I'm playing devils advocate here for Te'o, and saying I'm not opposed to it.

People need to get their heads wrapped around the way personnel works now with the CBA. It is no longer a "waste" to draft an MLB/ILB in the top 5, top 10, or even the top pick. Especially if that guy has the potential to be at or near the top of his position for the next 5-8 years. By all means draft him.

We picked DJ with our 15th pick in '05, he's been an absolute beacon of hope for this defense since he got here. I am not opposed to spending our #1 draft pick we sucked so hard to get, on a guy who by all measures, could turn into a DJ clone. Why the hell wouldn't you take that?

Like I said, we have a long way to go with pro days, senior bowl, combine, etc. to figure this out, but why automatically rule out Te'o with the #1 pick, just because it isn't commonplace to draft an ILB/MLB there?

That is ignorant, lets see how the kid measures first and not automatically rule people out because of where we are picking. Aside from QB, ILB and CB are probably our biggest concerns for immediate need on this team.

it's absolutely a waste...and it is cowardly and dumb to boot

the economic argument you are making is better applied to the QB position...draft one, it costs basically nothing

LBs aren't important, QBs are....and we've waited 30 freaking years for one

nevermind that te'o isn't even close to being the best lb to come out in years...

Cassel and Quinn and you want a LB with the #1 pick in the draft

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Why? This isn't the same NFL where your first round pick gets a billion dollars, so salary is out of the question. We are in the AFC West where up until last year, the only passing QB worth legitimately building a defense to compete against was Phillip Rivers, completely laughable. Pass Rush isn't that big of a concern here in the west as it is in the AFC South as an example. Despite that, we have Hali and Houston already covered, and in our 3-4, anything else is just depth or rotation, which we could better utilize. I don't want us drafting a Left Tackle because I believe Albert is our guy and we need to give him a contract and plant him here for the foreseeable future. We need a QB but there isn't a "lights out, guaranteed to not **** this up" QB on the board, and since there isn't one, the likelihood that we draft a QB is up in the air.

Believe me, I want a QB as much as the next guy, but I'm playing devils advocate here for Te'o, and saying I'm not opposed to it.

People need to get their heads wrapped around the way personnel works now with the CBA. It is no longer a "waste" to draft an MLB/ILB in the top 5, top 10, or even the top pick. Especially if that guy has the potential to be at or near the top of his position for the next 5-8 years. By all means draft him.

We picked DJ with our 15th pick in '05, he's been an absolute beacon of hope for this defense since he got here. I am not opposed to spending our #1 draft pick we sucked so hard to get, on a guy who by all measures, could turn into a DJ clone. Why the hell wouldn't you take that?

Like I said, we have a long way to go with pro days, senior bowl, combine, etc. to figure this out, but why automatically rule out Te'o with the #1 pick, just because it isn't commonplace to draft an ILB/MLB there?

That is ignorant, lets see how the kid measures first and not automatically rule people out because of where we are picking. Aside from QB, ILB and CB are probably our biggest concerns for immediate need on this team.

Linebackers don't win games, QBs DO. How many games has Derrick Johnson won for us throughout his career? How many has ray Lewis won for Baltimore?

Linebackers stop the run.... And today is a passing league.

In todays NFL You get a QB and build the team around him.

[threebag]

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Linebackers don't win games, QBs DO. How many games has Derrick Johnson won for us throughout his career? How many has ray Lewis won for Baltimore?

Linebackers stop the run.... And today is a passing league.

In todays NFL You get a QB and build the team around him.

To be fair I think our linebackers have won more games than our quarterbacks.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Name the five.



I know it's hard, but try to listen...he's a goddamn 34 Mike backer. The position itself isn't worth the pick. The position itself isn't worth any pick in the first round.



No, but you seem to be in terms of your argument. And Johnson plays a different position. If you've already got an All-Pro level guy at the WILL, pissing away a first rounder, let alone the overall #1 pick, is ignorant at best.

You are so locked on at getting a QB in this draft, it is ridiculous. You probably don't even know or care who else is in this draft outside of this position, ****, if Pioli was a QB you'd probably be all for drafting him just because we need a QB right? You don't care if he fits this offense, or the offense of our next HC/OC pairing. You don't care if he fits the play makers already in this offense, you just want to draft to spend our #1 pick on a QB so we finally do it right? I'm sure they could polish a ****ing turd and you'd still draft it. Point here is that I don't want to waste a #1 pick because we are thirsty. I want to invest that #1 pick on someone that will better this team and get us going forward as an improvement. If that is Geno, so be it. I'm all for it. If that is Te'O, great, all for it. If it happens to be a ****ing Center out of Southwest Missouri Eastern Middle State Tech, I don't care. I'm all for it. Just as long as we aren't making DESPERATE SELECTIONS

Speaking specifically for 1st round Seelections
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3
2011: Cam Newton
2010: Nobody
2009: Matt Stafford
2008: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco

That's 6 in the last 5 years. I could go on.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I think you missed the point.

No, I made the point. If there isn't a certified, guaranteed lock for QB in this draft, we shouldn't be opposed as a whole, to taking someone else. If there happens to be a CB that climbs the draft, I wouldn't be opposed to that either, and that, in the current state of things, is an even bigger reach for us.

Point is, if Te'o ends up being the absolutely best football player in this draft, posts an amazing, unbelievable combine and pro day, and the QB class blows ass in the same events, I'm not going to ignorantly sit on the "Draft a QB first" bandwagon. There are going to be guys in the second round that can start for us, and I'll guarantee that right now.

Originally Posted by threebag02

To be fair I think our linebackers have won more games than out quarterbacks.

Sad Truth right there.

[seamonster]

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Linebackers don't win games, QBs DO. How many games has Derrick Johnson won for us throughout his career? How many has ray Lewis won for Baltimore?

Linebackers stop the run.... And today is a passing league.

In todays NFL You get a QB and build the team around him.

Redskins, seahawks, 49ers, and the vikings are all in the playoffs because of running the football. The threat of a run combined with world class speed at the receiver is what's whoring teams out in the league right now.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by seamonster

Redskins, seahawks, 49ers, and the vikings are all in the playoffs because of running the football. The threat of a run combined with world class speed at the receiver is what's whoring teams out in the league right now.

Are any of them going to make it to the Super Bowl? Not likely.

Stop panning for fools gold.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

We need a QB but there isn't a "lights out, guaranteed to not **** this up" QB on the board, and since there isn't one, the likelihood that we draft a QB is up in the air.

And do you know how many of those there have been in the past 30 years?

Two.

John Elway and Andrew Luck.

That's it.

So you are willing to wait around another 30 years and hope we have the first pick in the draft when they come around?

(And if you don't remember, there were a couple of guys taken after Elway who ended up in the Hall of Fame that weren't "lights out, guaranteed not to **** this up" type of players. In fact, that's why they were drafted behind a guy named Todd Blackledge.)

We picked DJ with our 15th pick in '05, he's been an absolute beacon of hope for this defense since he got here. I am not opposed to spending our #1 draft pick we sucked so hard to get, on a guy who by all measures, could turn into a DJ clone. Why the hell wouldn't you take that?

You obviously don't remember the Derrick Johnson who played for the Chiefs under Herm Edwards. The guy was basically a lazy, out of shape first round bust and was actually benched by Haley for sucking so bad.

And, don't take this personally, but Te'o is a ****ING MIDDLE LINEBACKER WITHOUT ELITE INTANGIBLES. No one takes a middle linebacker first overall, especially when you've got the shit stain at the QB position that the Chiefs have. Why? Because they are ****ing middle linebackers! They plug the run, especially in a 34. You get great guys for that in the sixth ****ing round. Not at the #1 overall pick. It's a shit position in terms of positional value - it's not the WILL backer that is asked to do a lot more in terms of coverage and reads and the like such as Derrick Johnson or Pat Willis. It's a ****ing run plugger. And you are okay with spending the first overall pick on that?

**** me.