Chiefs How old was Rich Ganon before he was a franchise QB? - Page 11

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 08:24 PM

I keep reading how Cassel is 28 and he is in his sixth season and if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will. Perhaps we should look at someone who had very similar numbers through his first six seasons.

Rich Gannon was drafted in 1987 by the Pats to be a defensive back. When he bristled at the idea, he was traded to Minnesota. In 1990, Gannon started 12 games. The Vikings had a 11-5 record, and the coaches went with Sean Salisbury. He played a lot over the years 1990-1992. He played in at least 12 games in each of those years, and never had more than 2278 yards. his passer rating was never more than 81.5. in 1990, he had 16 td's and 16 Int's. In 1991, he had 12 td's and 6 int's. in 1992, he had 12 Td's and 13 Int's. 1992 was his sixth season.

In 1993, he was picked up by the Redskins. He had three td's and seven interceptions. He played in only seven games. This was his seventh season.

His eighth season didn't come until 1995 because he was out of football in 1994. He had rotator cuff surgery in 1993, but no one was knocking down his door to get him under contract.

In 1995, Gannon worked out for the Chiefs and signed with the team as the BACKUP to Bono. He was a team player. A guy that would be the backup and not complain. A hard worker. The kind of player that coaches like.

He saw action in four games in 1996. He finally started to 'get it'. This was his 9th season. But, the Chiefs didn't have any faith in him and still went out and got Grbac. I believe Gannon signed a two year extension in 1996 because no one wanted him to be a starter.

Over the course of 1997 and 1998, he started a total of 16 games and played in a total of 21. His passer rating was about 80 over those two years. He threw for 3349 yards in those two seasons combined.

This was years 10 and 11.

The Raiders rewarded Gannon's mediocre numbers over his 11 seasons in the league with an opportunity to win the starting job.

We all know how it turned out.

This is a folk hero around these parts.... and yet, through his first 10 seasons, he was not an extremely accurate passer. He didn't throw downfield very well. He struggled to read defenses. And he was athletic.

Oh, AND he took a ton of sacks. He was sacked 302 times in 4206 pass attempts.

Heck, he wasn't even drafted to be a QB.

Through his first six seasons, Gannon had thrown 1003 passes. He had completed 561 passes. He completed 55.9% of his passes. He had 40 TD's and 36 Int's. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. He averaged 11.5 yards per completion. He had 81 sacks, or at about 8 percent of his pass attempts.

Through Cassel's first six seasons, he has thrown 1154 passes. He has completed 678 of them. He is completing 58.7% of his passes. He has 43 TD's. He has 32 Int's. He has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt. He has averaged 11.09 yards per completion. He has 96 sacks, which is about 8% of his pass attempts.

Will Cassel be Gannon? Probably not. But, Gannon wasn't Gannon until his 12th season in the league.... or twice as long as Cassel has been in the league...... That is when Gannon really got it and became a pro bowl QB.

**cdcox** · 10-12-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

but he needs to trust his WR's and I don't think he can get to that point anytime soon.

This is killing his effectiveness.

How many times have we seen him make his drop, hit his back foot, start his throwing motion, and then pull it back down. That ball needs to come out. If the guy isn't open, don't start the throwing motion to begin with. Something is flat wrong. Either he isn't making his reads correctly, or doesn't trust his receivers to make a play, or doesn't trust his arm. But effective QBs don't very often pull the ball down after they start their throwing motion. Cassel does this all the time and that is on him.

patteeu · 10-12-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Please. link us to one of those several occassions, cause all I've ever seen is "I graded out perfect" in a game he threw four interceptions, and "I played as well as I could" in this game.

Oh.....wait, I believe him on that second one there, so I'll give him a pass on that one.

Ok, here's one:

Quote:

Obviously I threw two interceptions and if we can eliminate those, create drives and put ourselves in a better situation at the end of the game, then we’ll be in position to win.”

He doesn't make any excuses. He says he did it. He says they need to be eliminated. Accountability.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCD

Go hump a cactus. If you cant see why Matt Cassel is a problem, you should stop watching football.

If a problem is not being a top QB in the league... yeah, it's a problem.

But, then the Chiefs have problems at nearly every offensive position other than running back.

Look, I am not dismissing what Cassel is. He is an average starter. But, the fact that he gets crapped on for the loss in Indy is pretty ridiculous.

Charles lost a fumble. Charles fumbled prior to that causing him to not get the first down. Bowe drops an easy TD pass. Succop has the worst on sides kick I have ever seen.... and Cassel gets all the blame.

Hmmm.

Agenda anyone?

It was a team loss.

Could a franchise QB overcome those things?

Yes.

Would I like to have a franchise QB? Yes.

Will Cassel be that guy? I doubt it, but who knows.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2010, 10:43 PM

Pretty quick gloss there, man. Lots of "we" and leads with a self-serving statement: "We took what was there in the passing game."

Leadership, the Herm model.

RustShack · 10-12-2010, 10:44 PM

Start Croyle.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

This is killing his effectiveness.

How many times have we seen him make his drop, hit his back foot, start his throwing motion, and then pull it back down. That ball needs to come out. If the guy isn't open, don't start the throwing motion to begin with. Something is flat wrong. Either he isn't making his reads correctly, or doesn't trust his receivers to make a play, or doesn't trust his arm. But effective QBs don't very often pull the ball down after they start their throwing motion. Cassel does this all the time and that is on him.

Two things.
#1) Some of those times I think Cassel is trying to get the defender to jump a different route. I know that this doesn't jive with some of the guys that say that he always stares down his WR's.

#2) It is clear that Haley doesn't feel that this team can overcome turnovers. He is coached that protecting the ball is the most important thing. I think he has been coached into a shell a little.

He has done a good job avoiding int's and avoiding sacks. And, that is what Haley wants....avoid negative plays.

I also think that this will start to change as the season goes along.

patteeu · 10-12-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I think pat is allowing comments like "we need to execute better" as a sign of personal accountability. This might be one thing, if it weren't juxtaposed with the "I executed pretty well" talk.

Yes, he talks in terms of the offense as a group more than he talks about "I". I think that's a product of the coaching emphasis on team. I can't remember ever hearing him throw a teammate under the bus though.

In an interview after the San Diego game this year, he talked about how the offense didn't play very well and how "we" need to do a better job so that someday when the defense has a bad day the offense can reciprocate by carrying them. That's not strictly a self indictment, but at the very least he accepts a share of the blame. In a game in which they won, I don't see any value in him doing much more than that.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

You do not generate conversation.. I would like to think you are just a dupe account, but the more you post it seems you try and just think up the most idiotic topics and pass off as Sensible..

And, yet you are here.... conversing...hmmm.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Yes, he talks in terms of the offense as a group more than he talks about "I". I think that's a product of the coaching emphasis on team. I can't remember ever hearing him throw a teammate under the bus though.

In an interview after the San Diego game this year, he talked about how the offense didn't play very well and how "we" need to do a better job so that someday when the defense has a bad day the offense can reciprocate by carrying them. That's not strictly a self indictment, but at the very least he accepts a share of the blame. In a game in which they won, I don't see any value in him doing much more than that.

These are the comments, though, that trump the "we" stuff: "But I think I did pretty well. I played the game plan very well. I'd have to say that I did about as well as I could out there. That's all you can ask." (Cassel on 810 talking about the loss, the ****ing loss mind you, at IND)

Yes, this has been posted before, but it's necessary for this exchange.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Franchise QBs don't fall apart when they run into bad coaches.

BS. Franchise qb's run the offense the way the coach calls it.

We will dissagree on this one.

BTW: I am not even sold that Gannon was a franchise QB... but for all the love he gets around here... I was surprised that it was even debated. I guess whatever side is best for the argument at hand.

**BigMeatballDave** · 10-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Ok, here's one:

He doesn't make any excuses. He says he did it. He says they need to be eliminated. Accountability.

Awesome. That was 11 months ago.

patteeu · 10-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

You do not generate conversation.. I would like to think you are just a dupe account, but the more you post it seems you try and just think up the most idiotic topics and pass off as Sensible..

Do you seriously think the board needs to march in lockstep on this Cassel thing? This thread was thought provoking even if there are many who refused to be provoked in that way because they've closed their minds to the subject.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

#2) It is clear that Haley doesn't feel that this team can overcome turnovers. He is coached that protecting the ball is the most important thing. I think he has been coached into a shell a little.

I remember when another well-loved coach used to talk about the need "to play a certain way," with the uber-talented Huard at the helm.

Wonder why we're again so worried about not being able to overcome mistakes?

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

These are the comments, though, that trump the "we" stuff: "But I think I did pretty well. I played the game plan very well. I'd have to say that I did about as well as I could out there. That's all you can ask." (Cassel on 810 talking about the loss, the ****ing loss mind you, at IND)

Yes, this has been posted before, but it's necessary for this exchange.

To me, this is just more evidence that the Chiefs were led to believe that they had very little chance of winning this game.

If you look at every post game quote, they all say we played well and were happy to be in it towards the end.

They clearly were expecting to play worse.

I like Haley and everyone makes mistakes... but to me, the biggest one this year is respecting the Colts too much and not respecting your own team enough. It was a very Herm Edwards like game plan.

**BigMeatballDave** · 10-12-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

If a problem is not being a top QB in the league... yeah, it's a problem.

But, then the Chiefs have problems at nearly every offensive position other than running back.

Look, I am not dismissing what Cassel is. He is an average starter. But, the fact that he gets crapped on for the loss in Indy is pretty ridiculous.

Charles lost a fumble. Charles fumbled prior to that causing him to not get the first down. Bowe drops an easy TD pass. Succop has the worst on sides kick I have ever seen.... and Cassel gets all the blame.

Hmmm.

Agenda anyone?

It was a team loss.

Could a franchise QB overcome those things?

Yes.

Would I like to have a franchise QB? Yes.

Will Cassel be that guy? I doubt it, but who knows.

That 4th and 2 play should tell anyone everything they need to know about Cassel.

10-12-2010, 08:24 PM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	How old was Rich Ganon before he was a franchise QB? I keep reading how Cassel is 28 and he is in his sixth season and if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will. Perhaps we should look at someone who had very similar numbers through his first six seasons. Rich Gannon was drafted in 1987 by the Pats to be a defensive back. When he bristled at the idea, he was traded to Minnesota. In 1990, Gannon started 12 games. The Vikings had a 11-5 record, and the coaches went with Sean Salisbury. He played a lot over the years 1990-1992. He played in at least 12 games in each of those years, and never had more than 2278 yards. his passer rating was never more than 81.5. in 1990, he had 16 td's and 16 Int's. In 1991, he had 12 td's and 6 int's. in 1992, he had 12 Td's and 13 Int's. 1992 was his sixth season. In 1993, he was picked up by the Redskins. He had three td's and seven interceptions. He played in only seven games. This was his seventh season. His eighth season didn't come until 1995 because he was out of football in 1994. He had rotator cuff surgery in 1993, but no one was knocking down his door to get him under contract. In 1995, Gannon worked out for the Chiefs and signed with the team as the BACKUP to Bono. He was a team player. A guy that would be the backup and not complain. A hard worker. The kind of player that coaches like. He saw action in four games in 1996. He finally started to 'get it'. This was his 9th season. But, the Chiefs didn't have any faith in him and still went out and got Grbac. I believe Gannon signed a two year extension in 1996 because no one wanted him to be a starter. Over the course of 1997 and 1998, he started a total of 16 games and played in a total of 21. His passer rating was about 80 over those two years. He threw for 3349 yards in those two seasons combined. This was years 10 and 11. The Raiders rewarded Gannon's mediocre numbers over his 11 seasons in the league with an opportunity to win the starting job. We all know how it turned out. This is a folk hero around these parts.... and yet, through his first 10 seasons, he was not an extremely accurate passer. He didn't throw downfield very well. He struggled to read defenses. And he was athletic. Oh, AND he took a ton of sacks. He was sacked 302 times in 4206 pass attempts. Heck, he wasn't even drafted to be a QB. Through his first six seasons, Gannon had thrown 1003 passes. He had completed 561 passes. He completed 55.9% of his passes. He had 40 TD's and 36 Int's. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. He averaged 11.5 yards per completion. He had 81 sacks, or at about 8 percent of his pass attempts. Through Cassel's first six seasons, he has thrown 1154 passes. He has completed 678 of them. He is completing 58.7% of his passes. He has 43 TD's. He has 32 Int's. He has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt. He has averaged 11.09 yards per completion. He has 96 sacks, which is about 8% of his pass attempts. Will Cassel be Gannon? Probably not. But, Gannon wasn't Gannon until his 12th season in the league.... or twice as long as Cassel has been in the league...... That is when Gannon really got it and became a pro bowl QB.
Posts: 5,540

10-12-2010, 10:44 PM	#155
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4596954	Start Croyle. __________________
Posts: 15,049