ChiefsPlanet Super Bowl Coaches who didn't deserve credit? - Page 2

Nickhead · 04:17 AM

There are a lot of coaches that get fired, quit, or are traded. Then are replaced with someone else. Low and behold, the new coach finds himself in the Super Bowl. Two year window, Win or Lose, what coaches could you say, simply rode the coat tails of the previous regime to stardome? We all know Jimmy Johnson has three super bowl rings, and Switzer has none. Does Tomlin replacing Cower count? Gary Kubiak? What are your opinions on coaches that get more credit than they deserve.

Quote:

No other coach that I can think of has enjoyed a reputation built on such a flimsy foundation as Jon Gruden. Yes, he helped bring the Oakland Raiders back to respectability after a decade lost in the wilds. But in Oakland, he was never the big game coach the team needed, putting together a mediocre 2-2 playoff record. However, he made his bones by winning the Super Bowl following the 2002 season – a game in which he vanquished his former team, the Raiders. Of course, Gruden had a few things working in his favor – first, he inherited a stocked and loaded Tampa Bay Buccaneers team from Tony Dungy. Make no mistake, it was Dungy’s team that won that Super Bowl. Secondly, Gruden faced his former assistant, Bill Callahan, in that fateful title game. And Callahan, who was most assuredly not a good coach, didn’t change a thing from the plays Gruden ran, to the terminology used, to the signals the team used on the field. It’s a lot easier to win a big game and make it look easy when you know exactly what play is coming at you at any given time. Following that Super Bowl win, after Gruden was allowed to put his own stamp on the team, Tampa Bay enjoyed far less success. Despite that fact though, Gruden continues to be one of the most sought after coaches in the NFL.

http://www.thesportster.com/football...s-of-all-time/

BucEyedPea · 07-13-2017, 08:15 AM

I don't agree completely with that analysis of Gruden.

Consider the following facts:

Gruden did inherit a fully-loaded team which was built by Dungy, but that was mainly on the defensive side. Dungy didn't rebuild the defense on his own, but with the help of Monte Kiffin the DC who was also brilliant. It was one of the best defenses in the league.

Dungy himself couldn't really pull off the big win though despite his off-season appearances for the team after years of being considered losers. Gruden was brought in to improve the offense and quarterbacks. Brad Johnson wasn't the greatest QB but he did make the Pro Bowl that year. The defense was still the strongest part of the team though.

It may be date-coincident that the Bucs won that year Gruden came on, but the change was still needed to push it beyond just making the playoffs. The Raider's weakness was their defense—the opposite of the Bucs. So that's the match-up that met in that SB and it was just the right one for the Bucs.

So I think Gruden deserves his share of that SB credit and in a major way because his knowledge of the Raiders. TB dominated the Raiders on offensive plays. The most damning reason was because Gruden still knew Raider's playbook, and the Raiders hadn't even changed their audibles that Gruden installed. Lynch came right out said after teh SB, 'cuz I heard him, they knew what plays were being enacted which made those interceptions easy. Lynch said those Raider plays were all practiced with Gruden before the SB. Gruden would play Gannon at QB. I say that was just the thing that finally pushed them up the notch they needed to finally winning a SB, along with the luck of a perfect match-up despite Oakland being heavily favored.

Gruden was also very highly paid—some would say overpaid. I think it was just a year or so ago that his very expensive contract was finally paid off. I don't think that helped in paying talent once the SB over. That and the owners weren't as committed to winning once they bought Manchester United. Lots of fans complained about that. I remember when the Bucs rebranded the entire team's look while the team was also revamped. With the Patriots, you have an owner committed to winning, as well as a coach and QB. The Buc's no longer had that. Plus their new branding sucks big time. Just ugly uni's.

BucEyedPea · 07-13-2017, 08:18 AM

Dungy also inherited Peyton Manning at QB when he came to the Colts. Bucs never had a great QB.

AssEaterChief · 07-13-2017, 08:27 AM

"But in Oakland, he was never the big game coach the team needed, putting together a mediocre 2-2 playoff record."

Kind of unfair considering one of those loses was the ****ing tuck rule game...how do we know they don't beat the Steelers and then the Rams in the SB that year?

Overall he was a good coach....why is it his fault he wanted to go to a better Tampa squad than he had in Oakland?

Sounds smart to me and it's not like he turned them into a dumpster fire.

vailpass · 07-13-2017, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inmem58

Billichek is is a mastermind. Lot of hate from jealous people here. When they were down 28-3 he was seen on the sidelines taking note after note. He's a brilliant coach.

BucEyedPea · 07-13-2017, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AssEaterChief

Overall he was a good coach....why is it his fault he wanted to go to a better Tampa squad than he had in Oakland?

Big money—a 5 year deal for $17.5 million. Davis wasn't convinced Gruden was worth the money another contract would be once Gruden's expired a year later.

Quote:

Sounds smart to me and it's not like he turned them into a dumpster fire.

Yep!

dj56dt58 · 07-13-2017, 08:42 AM

I think any coach that wins it deserves it (except Kubiak in that rigged shitfest)

Regardless of how good your team is you still have to coach pretty well to get to and especially win the superbowl

rico · 07-13-2017, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Dungy

This... and to think he is in the HOF. Blech.

vailpass · 07-13-2017, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj56dt58

I think any coach that wins it deserves it (except Kubiak in that rigged shitfest)

Regardless of how good your team is you still have to coach pretty well to get to and especially win the superbowl

Some of you really need to get SB laid.

Frazod · 07-13-2017, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

I don't agree completely with that analysis of Gruden.

Consider the following facts:

Gruden did inherit a fully-loaded team which was built by Dungy, but that was mainly on the defensive side. Dungy didn't rebuild the defense on his own, but with the help of Monte Kiffin the DC who was also brilliant. It was one of the best defenses in the league.

Dungy himself couldn't really pull off the big win though despite his off-season appearances for the team after years of being considered losers. Gruden was brought in to improve the offense and quarterbacks. Brad Johnson wasn't the greatest QB but he did make the Pro Bowl that year. The defense was still the strongest part of the team though.

It may be date-coincident that the Bucs won that year Gruden came on, but the change was still needed to push it beyond just making the playoffs. The Raider's weakness was their defense—the opposite of the Bucs. So that's the match-up that met in that SB and it was just the right one for the Bucs.

So I think Gruden deserves his share of that SB credit and in a major way because his knowledge of the Raiders. TB dominated the Raiders on offensive plays. The most damning reason was because Gruden still knew Raider's playbook, and the Raiders hadn't even changed their audibles that Gruden installed. Lynch came right out said after teh SB, 'cuz I heard him, they knew what plays were being enacted which made those interceptions easy. Lynch said those Raider plays were all practiced with Gruden before the SB. Gruden would play Gannon at QB. I say that was just the thing that finally pushed them up the notch they needed to finally winning a SB, along with the luck of a perfect match-up despite Oakland being heavily favored.

Gruden was also very highly paid—some would say overpaid. I think it was just a year or so ago that his very expensive contract was finally paid off. I don't think that helped in paying talent once the SB over. That and the owners weren't as committed to winning once they bought Manchester United. Lots of fans complained about that. I remember when the Bucs rebranded the entire team's look while the team was also revamped. With the Patriots, you have an owner committed to winning, as well as a coach and QB. The Buc's no longer had that. Plus their new branding sucks big time. Just ugly uni's.

This never gets old....

Amnorix · 07-13-2017, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico

This... and to think he is in the HOF. Blech.

I'm not a huge fan of Dungy or anything, but can you name five better coaches over the last, say, 20 years?

Let's face it, he had continued success with two separate organizations over a pretty long period of time. Sure, you can point to Peyton, but I look forward to the coaches you naming not having a Brees, Brady, Rogers, or whoever as QB.

I think after Belichick, over the last 20 years there are a number of guys who don't really scream out GREAT in any meaningful way. McCarthy and Payton (and perhaps Tomlin), and of course Dungy have the "you haven't done well enough with the great QB you've had", while other guys have either been too inconsistent (Coughlin) or can't seem to do anything in the playoffs (Marv Lewis). I think very highly of the Ravens' Harbaugh, but his trajectory has faltered a bit in the post Lewis/Reed era. I think he'll recover, but we'll see. Ozzie Newsome's drafts lately are also partly responsible for the dropoff there.

I remember the 80s, with Shula, Landry, Parcells, Walsh, Gibbs and a handful of others, and wonder why there don't seem to be many great coaches now. Then again, Shula went to 2 SBs and lost both in the last, like 20 years of his coaching career, despite having Marino. You could look at him and be like "look it's Tony Dungy".

**Rain Man** · 07-13-2017, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico

This... and to think he is in the HOF. Blech.

Right next to Olandis Gary or whoever that Broncos running back is.

Gravedigger · 07-13-2017, 09:13 AM

This guy's reasoning for Reid being overrated is because he never won a Superbowl? I hate weak ass arguments like that. Here's a bunch of stats showing the man can coach, but I'm going to say because he didn't win the Superbowl against the Patriots against the greatest combination coach and quarterback in NFL history, he's overrated.

Best22 · 07-13-2017, 09:32 AM

Marv Levy is in the HoF. Dude never won a Superboel. Some guys just have an impact on the game and are winners

vailpass · 07-13-2017, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravedigger

This guy's reasoning for Reid being overrated is because he never won a Superbowl? I hate weak ass arguments like that. Here's a bunch of stats showing the man can coach, but I'm going to say because he didn't win the Superbowl against the Patriots against the greatest combination coach and quarterback in NFL history, he's overrated.

Off-season click-bait article.

**wazu** · 07-13-2017, 09:43 AM

Why do people keep saying Billick? He won a SuperBowl with Trent Dilfer.

07-13-2017, 08:15 AM	#16
BucEyedPea Gimme My Berries Back! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: None of your business Casino cash: $3239963	I don't agree completely with that analysis of Gruden. Consider the following facts: Gruden did inherit a fully-loaded team which was built by Dungy, but that was mainly on the defensive side. Dungy didn't rebuild the defense on his own, but with the help of Monte Kiffin the DC who was also brilliant. It was one of the best defenses in the league. Dungy himself couldn't really pull off the big win though despite his off-season appearances for the team after years of being considered losers. Gruden was brought in to improve the offense and quarterbacks. Brad Johnson wasn't the greatest QB but he did make the Pro Bowl that year. The defense was still the strongest part of the team though. It may be date-coincident that the Bucs won that year Gruden came on, but the change was still needed to push it beyond just making the playoffs. The Raider's weakness was their defense—the opposite of the Bucs. So that's the match-up that met in that SB and it was just the right one for the Bucs. So I think Gruden deserves his share of that SB credit and in a major way because his knowledge of the Raiders. TB dominated the Raiders on offensive plays. The most damning reason was because Gruden still knew Raider's playbook, and the Raiders hadn't even changed their audibles that Gruden installed. Lynch came right out said after teh SB, 'cuz I heard him, they knew what plays were being enacted which made those interceptions easy. Lynch said those Raider plays were all practiced with Gruden before the SB. Gruden would play Gannon at QB. I say that was just the thing that finally pushed them up the notch they needed to finally winning a SB, along with the luck of a perfect match-up despite Oakland being heavily favored. Gruden was also very highly paid—some would say overpaid. I think it was just a year or so ago that his very expensive contract was finally paid off. I don't think that helped in paying talent once the SB over. That and the owners weren't as committed to winning once they bought Manchester United. Lots of fans complained about that. I remember when the Bucs rebranded the entire team's look while the team was also revamped. With the Patriots, you have an owner committed to winning, as well as a coach and QB. The Buc's no longer had that. Plus their new branding sucks big time. Just ugly uni's.
Posts: 161,924

07-13-2017, 08:18 AM	#17
BucEyedPea Gimme My Berries Back! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: None of your business Casino cash: $3239963	Dungy also inherited Peyton Manning at QB when he came to the Colts. Bucs never had a great QB.
Posts: 161,924

07-13-2017, 08:27 AM	#18
AssEaterChief Starter Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SD Casino cash: $9992919	"But in Oakland, he was never the big game coach the team needed, putting together a mediocre 2-2 playoff record." Kind of unfair considering one of those loses was the ****ing tuck rule game...how do we know they don't beat the Steelers and then the Rams in the SB that year? Overall he was a good coach....why is it his fault he wanted to go to a better Tampa squad than he had in Oakland? Sounds smart to me and it's not like he turned them into a dumpster fire.
Posts: 865

07-13-2017, 08:42 AM	#21
dj56dt58 Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Missouri Casino cash: $9960055	I think any coach that wins it deserves it (except Kubiak in that rigged shitfest) Regardless of how good your team is you still have to coach pretty well to get to and especially win the superbowl
Posts: 6,361

07-13-2017, 09:13 AM	#27
Gravedigger Plays to win the game! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $7213101	This guy's reasoning for Reid being overrated is because he never won a Superbowl? I hate weak ass arguments like that. Here's a bunch of stats showing the man can coach, but I'm going to say because he didn't win the Superbowl against the Patriots against the greatest combination coach and quarterback in NFL history, he's overrated.
Posts: 7,582

07-13-2017, 09:32 AM	#28
Best22 MVP Join Date: May 2016 Location: World Boxing Champs Casino cash: $3500400	Marv Levy is in the HoF. Dude never won a Superboel. Some guys just have an impact on the game and are winners Last edited by Best22; 07-13-2017 at 09:45 AM..
Posts: 5,917

07-13-2017, 09:43 AM	#30
wazu ... Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $1972295 VARSITY	Why do people keep saying Billick? He won a SuperBowl with Trent Dilfer.
Posts: 27,893