Do Geno fans have overinflated expectations?

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

I will roll the dice on the most important position in sports EVERY time till I have a true franchise QB then continue to take shots at one every draft at some point if possible.

I don't know what you mean by this. I think everyone has a different definition of "true franchise quarterback."

How long do you give a draft pick to establish himself to be a "true franchise quarterback"?

How can a quarterback establish himself as a "true franchise quarterback" if you are constantly (every year by your words) drafting for one? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

I think people are throwing around these vague words thinking that everyone else has the same definition of what these words mean in their respective minds.

What is a true franchise quarterback? I don't understand what people think that means.

I think people like using that phrase because it is a "good thing" but it is hard to define. I suppose it is kind of like pornography; it is hard to define, but you know what it is when you see it.

Would you consider Brad Johnson a franchise quarterback? Would you consider McNabb a franchise QB? Would you consider Brad Johnson more of a franchise QB than McNabb or the other way around? Why?

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

I don't know what you mean by this. I think everyone has a different definition of "true franchise quarterback."

How long do you give a draft pick to establish himself to be a "true franchise quarterback"?

How can a quarterback establish himself as a "true franchise quarterback" if you are constantly (every year by your words) drafting for one? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

I think people are throwing around these vague words thinking that everyone else has the same definition of what these words mean in their respective minds.

What is a true franchise quarterback? I don't understand what people think that means.

I think people like using that phrase because it is a "good thing" but it is hard to define. I suppose it is kind of like pornography; it is hard to define, but you know what it is when you see it.

Would you consider Brad Johnson a franchise quarterback? Would you consider McNabb a franchise QB? Would you consider Brad Johnson more of a franchise QB than McNabb or the other way around? Why?

You give the guy at least three years to develop. Brad Johnson is not a franchise QB. McNabb was a franchise QB. A franchise QB is any QB that is able to take the team on his back and lead them to victory.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Crush

You give the guy at least three years to develop. Brad Johnson is not a franchise QB. McNabb was a franchise QB. A franchise QB is any QB that is able to take the team on his back and lead them to victory.

Brad Johnson has a Super Bowl ring, McNabb doesn't.

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

Brad Johnson has a Super Bowl ring, McNabb doesn't.

Doesn't matter

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Doesn't matter

It doesn't? So you would rather have a "franchise QB" -whatever that is- than a Super Bowl victory?

Once again, tell me, what is a franchise QB?

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

It doesn't? So you would rather have a "franchise QB" -whatever that is- than a Super Bowl victory?

Once again, tell me, what is a franchise QB?

Brad Johnson is the exception, not the norm.

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

It doesn't? So you would rather have a "franchise QB" -whatever that is- than a Super Bowl victory?

Once again, tell me, what is a franchise QB?

Once again, a franchise QB is a QB that takes the team on his back and wills them to victory.

Examples: Montana, Elway, Graham, Staubach, Marino, Bradshaw, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning II, and Flacco.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Crush

Once again, a franchise QB is a QB that takes the team on his back and wills them to victory.

Examples: Montana, Elway, Graham, Staubach, Marino, Bradshaw, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning II, and Flacco.

That is gobbledygook. It means nothing. It has no more meaning than saying someone is a "franchise quarterback.

Listing examples, on the other hand, gives us a frame of reference. We can look at their Career Approximate Value (CAV) based on statistics stripping out emotion.

Montana: 123
Elway: 138
Graham: 84
Staubach: 104
Marino: 145
Bradshaw: 106
P. Manning: 165
E. Manning: 86
Brady: 140
Roethlisberger: 86
Flacco: 55

OK, here are a couple of interesting facts about what you consider a "franchise QB": 1) with a couple of exceptions (Flacco and Roethlisberger) a franchise QB is either a current hall of famer or a future hall of famer, 2) with one exception (Flacco) all the QBs you've listed have a higher CAV than what you can typically expect with the number one overall pick (74).

You've supported the very point I was making in the OP. Thank you.

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

Brad Johnson has a Super Bowl ring, McNabb doesn't.

That's because Brad Johnson rode the coattails of an historic defense. By your logic, Dan Marino is not a franchise QB.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Crush

That's because Brad Johnson rode the coattails of an historic defense. By your logic, Dan Marino is not a franchise QB.

It isn't my logic. I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say "franchise QB."

There are a lot of "franchise QBs" that have never won a SB:

Dan Marino
Archie Manning
Fran Tarkenton
Dan Fouts
Sonny Jurgensen
Kenny Anderson
Donovan McNabb
Roman Gabriel
Jim Kelly
Boomer Esiason
Steve McNair
Bert Jones
Phillip Rivers
Ron Jaworski
Daunte Culpepper
Joe Ferguson
Steve Grogan
Ton Romo

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

It isn't my logic. I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say "franchise QB."

The Donks just scored and it is 23-19 with 2:36 left in the game. Do you trust that your QB is capable of carrying the team on his back and orchestrate the epic last second TD drive? If yes, you have a franchise QB. If no, you need to keep looking until you find one.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Crush

The Donks just scored and it is 23-19 with 2:36 left in the game. Do you trust that your QB is capable of carrying the team on his back and orchestrate the epic last second TD drive? If yes, you have a franchise QB. If no, you need to keep looking until you find one.

Does it count if he has a good team around him?