2014 NFL Combine - Players - The DT

OldSchool · 04-03-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc

you sure as hell implied it.

Sutton has said before that this is not the Jets defense but the chiefs defense.

you, nor anyone else, has provided evidence how many snaps (or percent of plays) that the chiefs use a 5-tech. you make ASSUMPTIONS based on the snaps of players (devito/jackson) that no other player also plays a 5-tech position for any number of plays. You make the ASSUMPTION that the chiefs dont use a 5-tech in a sub package formation. I showed that it is possible to be in a sub package formation and use a 5-tech. Heck, for that matter, what percent of plays do the chiefs use a 3-tech for the 2013 season?

Then wouldn't it make sense for the team to draft Donald and then line him up primarily at 3-tech vs trying to force him into the 5-tech role when we already have Devito, Walker, Bailey, and Catapano for that role?

So, again, why wouldn't you draft the most dominant interior pass rusher available in this draft again? Because you don't think he could do well at 5-tech when our team runs a multiple front and has a number of guys who could fill that role?

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Then wouldn't it make sense for the team to draft Donald and then line him up primarily at 3-tech vs trying to force him into the 5-tech role

I wouldnt force him to play 5-tech.

1. I havent seen how often the chiefs use a 3-tech, and wouldnt want to use a first round player whose role will be limited to only a few snaps.

2. Donald cant (and shouldnt) line up as a 3-tech on everydown in a 3 or 2 man front. He would be a liability in the run game. An offense that doesnt substitute its players (which is becoming popular) would limit the ability of the chiefs to sub him in or out.

Thus I dont want to devote premium picks on a player who is limited on what he can do and may be limited in how many snaps he can play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

So, again, why wouldn't you draft the most dominant interior pass rusher available in this draft again?

because he may not fit the chiefs scheme, and the chiefs are not changing their scheme for him. The chiefs have already gone on record that their scheme is not changing for the 2014 season.

I dont try to force square pegs into round holes.

OldSchool · 04-03-2014, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc

I wouldnt force him to play 5-tech.

1. I havent seen how often the chiefs use a 3-tech, and wouldnt want to use a first round player whose role will be limited to only a few snaps.

2. Donald cant (and shouldnt) line up as a 3-tech on downs 1-3 in a 3 or 2 man front. He would be a liability in the run game. An offense that doesnt substitute its players (which is becoming popular) would limit the ability of the chiefs to sub him in or out.

Thus I dont want to devote premium picks on a player who is limited on what he can do and may be limited in how many snaps he can play.

because he may not fit the chiefs scheme, and the chiefs are not changing their scheme for him. The chiefs have already gone on record that their scheme is not changing for the 2014 season.

I dont try to force square pegs into round holes.

Yeah, a guy who led all of college football in TFL is a liability in the run game.

If anything he would improve our ability to stop the run.

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Yeah, a guy who led all of college football in TFL is a liability in the run game.

If anything he would improve our ability to stop the run.

pitt runs a 4-3 defense. the chiefs employ a 3-4 base defense.

A 4 man front has more fatties at the LOS than a 3 man front which makes it easier to defend the run.

Here is an example of the weight difference for a typical NFL defenses:
3 man front: Donald (285), Poe (350), walker/devito (305) = 940lbs
4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220

the defensive line is lining up against 5 x 300lb offensive lineman = 1500 lbs.

htismaqe · 04-03-2014, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc

4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220

That's not a typical 40 front, dude. Most base 40 teams don't have DE's anywhere near 300 pounds.

The Atlanta Falcons fielded DE's that were BOTH under 270.

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That's not a typical 40 front, dude. Most base 40 teams don't have DE's anywhere near 300 pounds.

The Atlanta Falcons fielded DE's that were BOTH under 270.

270, 350, 285, 270 = 1175.

still more mass than a 3 man front.

OldSchool · 04-03-2014, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc

pitt runs a 4-3 defense. the chiefs employ a 3-4 base defense.

A 4 man front has more fatties at the LOS than a 3 man front which makes it easier to defend the run.

Here is an example of the weight difference for a typical NFL defenses:
3 man front: Donald (285), Poe (350), walker/devito (305) = 940lbs
4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220

the defensive line is lining up against 5 x 300lb offensive lineman = 1500 lbs.

We need a guy who can do this against the run:

A hell of a lot more than we need someone who just occupies space like Jackson and Devito did last year. How great was our run defense btw with all of that "beef" and nothing beyond Poe as far as a potential disruptive presence in the opponent's backfield on run plays?

We were 22nd in total yards in run defense. 24th in YPC with a 4.5 YPC average.

Sorry, but I'm done with DL men who can only occupy space and blockers. I want an Aaron Donald who has not only demonstrated the ability to take up blockers, but can also make the plays in the backfield himself.

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

We need a guy who can do this against the run:

dude was completely unblocked (77 doesnt even touch him and pulls to the left). The center hikes the ball and than pulls, and the offense tried to have the LG block from so far away. It was a terrible offensive call more than any success by Donald.

OldSchool · 04-03-2014, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc

dude was completely unblocked (77 doesnt even touch him and pulls to the left). This isnt even an example of him beating a block. I think any of our current lineman can do that when no one is blocking him. lol.

I have no issues with Donald when no one blocks him. On the contrary, I expect NFL offensive lineman to try to block him in the NFL...thats kinda their job.

Precisely my point, he was way too fast for the OL player to get to him while pulling or trap blocking and that fact will still remain the same in the NFL because he would, on day 1, be the fastest, quickest, and most explosive interior lineman in the league.