Luke Kuechly

[Chiefs=Champions]

I think this guy is the pick.

He really does everything well. Obviously in the defense he played in he plays more of a DJ type roll, roaming around making plays, but that dosnt mean he cant be a thumper.




A few times in this video he does a great job of disengaging from the blocker and making the stop.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

and Hightower could be an all-pro at the very same position opposite DJ, instead of being "solid"

"Could be" is the operative phrase. Hightower is a two-down guy in this system who doesn't bring anything more to the table than Belcher other than less experience.

He's a nice player, but he will struggle to operate out in space at the next level. Hightower only has 4 sacks for his entire career at Alabama and two interceptions. He's a pure two-down thumper at this point.

If he's there in the second, I wouldn't have a problem with the Chiefs picking him, but, again, I think it's a bit of a redundant selection as he is essentially the same player as Belcher minus the NFL level on-field experience that Jovan has.

People might not know it, but Belcher is high level athlete. He was a three time All-American wrestler in high school and played OLB and defensive end for Maine. (He had 17.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks as a senior.) He was a two-time first team FCS All-American and Colonial league Defensive Player of the Year in 2008. (The Chiefs absolutely stole him as a UDFA in 2009.)

He weighed in a 243 on his Pro Day and was 255 to start the season last year. (Still can't figure out why the Chiefs keep listing him at 228 on the team site.) Belcher's pro day numbers are nearly identical to Hightowers:

Belcher:
6' 1 3/8"
243 lbs.
40: 4.8
Vert: 30"
Broad: 9'0"
20 ss: 4.25
3 Cone: 7.07
Bench: 19

Hightower:
6' 2 1/4"
265 lbs.
40: 4.68
Vert: 32"
Broad: 9'9"
20 ss: 4.64
3 Cone: 7.55
Bench: DNP

Most people recognize Belcher as very good Mike backer and he's gotten substantially better each of the past two seasons as he's adjusted to the NFL level. He's still ascending and only should get better this next season.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

"Could be" is the operative phrase. Hightower is a two-down guy in this system who doesn't bring anything more to the table than Belcher other than less experience.

He's a nice player, but he will struggle to operate out in space at the next level. Hightower only has 4 sacks for his entire career at Alabama and two interceptions. He's a pure two-down thumper at this point.

If he's there in the second, I wouldn't have a problem with the Chiefs picking him, but, again, I think it's a bit of a redundant selection as he is essentially the same player as Belcher minus the NFL level on-field experience that Jovan has.

People might not know it, but Belcher is high level athlete. He was a three time All-American wrestler in high school and played OLB and defensive end for Maine. (He had 17.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks as a senior.) He was a two-time first team FCS All-American and Colonial league Defensive Player of the Year in 2008. (The Chiefs absolutely stole him as a UDFA in 2009.)

He weighed in a 243 on his Pro Day and was 255 to start the season last year. (Still can't figure out why the Chiefs keep listing him at 228 on the team site.) Belcher's pro day numbers are nearly identical to Hightowers:

Belcher:
6' 1 3/8"
243 lbs.
40: 4.8
Vert: 30"
Broad: 9'0"
20 ss: 4.25
3 Cone: 7.07
Bench: 19

Hightower:
6' 2 1/4"
265 lbs.
40: 4.68
Vert: 32"
Broad: 9'9"
20 ss: 4.64
3 Cone: 7.55
Bench: DNP

Most people recognize Belcher as very good Mike backer and he's gotten substantially better each of the past two seasons as he's adjusted to the NFL level. He's still ascending and only should get better this next season.

Of course Hightower ceiling isn't of a solid roleplayer if he maxes out his potential he would be Kirkland, Belcher had problems shedding blocks and maintaining his gap, Hightower on the other hand is a hoss.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Of course Hightower ceiling isn't of a solid roleplayer if he maxes out his potential he would be Kirkland, Belcher had problems shedding blocks and maintaining his gap, Hightower on the other hand is a hoss.

I think he is as well, but one needs to consider that Belcher is going to start the 2012 season with only two real years of starting experience at the MLB spot after playing the edge at the college level. (In high school he played about every position on the team.)

It's why there was a big jump from his on the field performance from 2009 to2010 to 2011 and why he's still got room for growth in his game. Belcher is a very solid MLB right now and is only getting better.

I like Dont'a a lot, but to pick up a Mike backer with the 11th pick and already having a very good player at that position, it's not the best value for this team. One of those guys is going to end up a backup and that's not really the best thing for this team for the 11th pick - a backup Mike backer.

I love Kuechly and really like Hightower, but with Johnson finally putting it together on a consistent basis and Belcher being an ascending player who is already considered very good for his position, I just don't see this team burning an 11th pick on a ILB.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I think he is as well, but one needs to consider that Belcher is going to start the 2012 season with only two real years of starting experience at the MLB spot after playing the edge at the college level. (In high school he played about every position on the team.)

It's why there was a big jump from his on the field performance from 2009 to2010 to 2011 and why he's still got room for growth in his game. Belcher is a very solid MLB right now and is only getting better.

I like Dont'a a lot, but to pick up a Mike backer with the 11th pick and already having a very good player at that position, it's not the best value for this team. One of those guys is going to end up a backup and that's not really the best thing for this team for the 11th pick - a backup Mike backer.

I love Kuechly and really like Hightower, but with Johnson finally putting it together on a consistent basis and Belcher being an ascending player who is already considered very good for his position, I just don't see this team burning an 11th pick on a ILB.

Belcher is solid not good, and I have doubts on Keuchly maintaining strength/size to take up guards , the guy is only 237 and is built like DJ who doesn't have the same responsibilities.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Hightower fits Romeo's scheme better.

I don't see how. He has no man skills, only zone in coverage. Its not all about stopping the run.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Belcher is solid not good, and I have doubts on Keuchly maintaining strength/size to take up guards , the guy is only 237 and is built like DJ who doesn't have the same responsibilities.

Belcher is good.

He's turning into an outstanding player at his position.

He's not shedding blockers, he's blowing them up.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by whoman69

I don't see how. He has no man skills, only zone in coverage. Its not all about stopping the run.

our rush defense was giving up 4.2 yards per run, KC needing major improvement in that area. as some have said before if Luke was playing DJ's position sure great pick, but we need a run stopping monster on the other side of him and the Chiefs have an excellent pass defense anyway with Berry returning and Houston and Hali tearing shit up.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

our rush defense was giving up 4.2 yards per run, LC needing major improvement in that area. as some have said before if Luke was playing DJ's position sure great pick, but we need a run stopping monster on the other side of him and the Chiefs have an excellent pass defense anyway with Berry returning and Houston and Hali tearing shit up.

Belcher is still weak man on pass plays. If this was like 1890s baseball and we could ask them pass or run play, Belcher might not be a liability on half his downs.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by whoman69

Belcher is still weak man on pass plays. If this was like 1890s baseball and we could ask them pass or run play, Belcher might not be a liability on half his downs.

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a ****ing myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Sac and Milk. Well done men.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by milkman

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a ****ing myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

This.

Belcher is hardly the liability against the pass that people around here are making him out to be. He's more than athletic enough to stay with most tight ends and the real problem with tight end coverage had to do with the safeties.

Belcher brings the lumber and has a good knack for finding the ball/sniffing out the play.

Drafting a Mike backer early would be a waste of a high pick at this point.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by milkman

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a ****ing myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

4 passes defended in 3 seasons, 0 interceptions. Derrick Johnson had 9 PD just last year with 2 INT. Johnson also had 2 sacks to none for Belcher. Your stat is worthless if you don't tell us how many times those TEs lined up on Johnson's side and how many lined up on Belcher's side or if they instead had coverage on a back.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by whoman69

4 passes defended in 3 seasons, 0 interceptions. Derrick Johnson had 9 PD just last year with 2 INT. Johnson also had 2 sacks to none for Belcher. Your stat is worthless if you don't tell us how many times those TEs lined up on Johnson's side and how many lined up on Belcher's side or if they instead had coverage on a back.

I don't give a rat's ass if the TEs lined up on Belcher's side every time.

The numbers here don't ****ing lie.

The numbers tell us that anyone that says that the Chiefs were raped by TEs is a baldfaced liar or an idiot.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by whoman69

4 passes defended in 3 seasons, 0 interceptions. Derrick Johnson had 9 PD just last year with 2 INT. Johnson also had 2 sacks to none for Belcher. Your stat is worthless if you don't tell us how many times those TEs lined up on Johnson's side and how many lined up on Belcher's side or if they instead had coverage on a back.

2 words...different roles.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't give a rat's ass if the TEs lined up on Belcher's side every time.

The numbers here don't ****ing lie.

The numbers tell us that anyone that says that the Chiefs were raped by TEs is a baldfaced liar or an idiot.

Your stats would look better if it were fact that the TE lined up on Belcher's side every time but they didn't.

That's not the claim that was made anyway. The claim is that Belcher is invisible in pass coverage.

The numbers aren't so pristine as you claim anyway. All-Pro Scott Chandler caught 5 passes for 63 yards and 2 TD. Javid Best caught 4 passes in the underneath area usually covered by linebackers in week 2 and 1 TD. Backup TE Randy McMichael had 4 receptions in week 3. Visanthe Shiancoe was the Vikings top receiver with 6 catches against the Vikes. It was his season high. Anthony Fasano caught 2 TD passes. Gronkowski caught 4 balls for 2 TDs and nearly 100 yards, while Hernandez had another 4 catches.

Here is another stat. Belcher only made 16 tackles on running plays. Not only is he not defending passes, he's not even close enough to the play to make a tackle. He was on the field more than 200 pass plays last year. He can't rush the passer, can't defend the pass and isn't close to making plays once a pass is caught. Tell me again how he isn't invisible in pass coverage.