These "parents" should face criminal charges - Page 2

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-27-2008, 07:12 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer

Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

I don't think we get to make that judgment. JMO, but I'm pretty sure my opinion goes with the "laws of the land".

Maybe. I'm saying it's like your drowning and begging God for a lifeboat but your too ignorant to climb in. Dr.'s are here to help and to NOT utilize basic medical care COULD be ignoring what a person is praying for IMO.

Jenson71 · 03-27-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

But their religion does not tell them to go out and kill. It tells them to trust God for what they need.

In this one you are just wrong.

I'm not wrong one bit!

These people are bad parents. They have no ****ing sense. They let their daughter die, because they did not take care of her. They should have, you know, "took care of the sick" - didn't Jesus say that. They sound like some sort of Christian - so they would appreciate that.

Jenson71 · 03-27-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

You are setting a bad precedent.

Nope. Punishing stupid, bad parents and taking their children away is a good precedent. Very good, indeed.

MIAdragon · 03-27-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Freedom of Religion is part of our country.

They get to choose whether they go to a doctor.

It's a bad thing that happened but there isn't anything that should be done about it.

What I'm saying is that you can't have it both ways.

The next thing you know the government will make all of your decisions for you and also take all of your stuff to distribute to others .. you know, like Hillary and Obama want to do.

really with holding proper medical care is OK!?!?>>

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIAdragon

really with holding proper medical care is OK!?!?>>

Dude, your NORTH Cuban, what do you know about proper medical care????

lol, love the avatar.

mikey23545 · 03-27-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

But their religion does not tell them to go out and kill. It tells them to trust God for what they need.

In this one you are just wrong.

What other freedoms would you be willing to take away from people just because you don't understand their belief or like the way they do things?

You are setting a bad precedent.

You are crazier than a shithouse rat.

When it comes to endangering minors in their custody, they should have no rights whatsoever. If they want to kill themselves with their fairytale beliefs, or can convince those above the age of consent to follow their insane little cult, so be it. But to sentence a child whose welfare has been entrusted to you to die for your foolish, wicked beliefs, we should expedite their journey to "Heaven".

DenverChief · 03-27-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Like hell there isn't! Lock these morons up and take their children away, IMMEDIATELY.

do not feed the trolls!

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

I'm not wrong one bit!

These people are bad parents. They have no ****ing sense. They let their daughter die, because they did not take care of her. They should have, you know, "took care of the sick" - didn't Jesus say that. They sound like some sort of Christian - so they would appreciate that.

Do you believe that God/Jesus can heal you? It's a question of faith, their faith not yours.

You are wrong here. I do not think that we can do anything. But then we allow people to kill children every day in abortion clinics. Shouldn't they be put away for their crimes?

The courts have already said that it's ok to let babies die by the thousands a day or week, whatever the count is.

These people had a sincere belief that God was going to answer their prayers and heal their kid.

I go to doctors because that's the way my religion is formed. God put "tools" here to help us and doctors are some of those tools.

We can argue all night but you are not going to convince me that those people should be punished for exercising their right to believe in their religion.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey23545

You are crazier than a shithouse rat.

When it comes to endangering minors in their custody, they should have no rights whatsoever. If they want to kill themselves with their fairytale beliefs, or can convince those above the age of consent to follow their insane little cult, so be it. But to sentence a child whose welfare has been entrusted to you to die for your foolish, wicked beliefs, we should expedite their journey to "Heaven".

Nice comeback, you don't have anything productive to say so you insult and throw out information that has no base. These people were not doing anything against the law.

Let it play out and see if the authorities do it. I doubt that they will, it's a no win situation.

DenverChief · 03-27-2008, 08:11 PM

Just FYI this kind of "healing" has been banned in colorado because of this

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Do you believe that God/Jesus can heal you? It's a question of faith, their faith not yours.

You are wrong here. I do not think that we can do anything. But then we allow people to kill children every day in abortion clinics. Shouldn't they be put away for their crimes?

The courts have already said that it's ok to let babies die by the thousands a day or week, whatever the count is.

These people had a sincere belief that God was going to answer their prayers and heal their kid.

I go to doctors because that's the way my religion is formed. God put "tools" here to help us and doctors are some of those tools.

We can argue all night but you are not going to convince me that those people should be punished for exercising their right to believe in their religion.

Dude, I'm a christian, I'm religious and I agree with you to a point but one thing needs to be addressed with your statement here: the American "way" with our rights and freedoms is NOT the only "right" way. What are you saying...God is AMERICAN and supports OUR bill or rights???? dont think so.

MIAdragon · 03-27-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Freedom of Religion is part of our country.

They get to choose whether they go to a doctor.

It's a bad thing that happened but there isn't anything that should be done about it.

What I'm saying is that you can't have it both ways.

The next thing you know the government will make all of your decisions for you and also take all of your stuff to distribute to others .. you know, like Hillary and Obama want to do.

If you are an adult and want to forgo proper medical care and take your chances so be it but to force a minor to the same should be a crime and I think it is.

Does anyone remember the couple who forced a baby to follow a vegan diet and it died? I think they both received lengthy prison sentences.

I found it.

"Crown, a 3 1/2 pound vegan infant, starved to death on a diet which primarily consisted of soy milk and apple juice. At the tender age of 6 weeks, Crown's death came far too soon. The vegan lifestyle his parents opted for in attempts to promote a healthy life ironically caused his early demise.

Vegan parents, Jade Sanders, 27, and Lamont Thomas, 31, have been found guilty of malice murder, felony murder and first degree cruelty to children. The first time parents received a life sentence for their son's death. The jury deliberated 7 hours before returning with the verdict."

Third Eye · 03-27-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Freedom of Religion is part of our country.

They get to choose whether they go to a doctor.

It's a bad thing that happened but there isn't anything that should be done about it.

What I'm saying is that you can't have it both ways.

The next thing you know the government will make all of your decisions for you and also take all of your stuff to distribute to others .. you know, like Hillary and Obama want to do.

Actually, no. You have these rights only so long as they don't interfere with someone else's rights. It should be, don't know if it will be simply because of its sensitive nature, the same as yelling "Fire" in a packed theater. Sure you have the right to free speech, but once you endanger someone else you forfeit said right.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Actually, no. You have these rights only so long as they don't interfere with someone else's rights. It should be, don't know if it will be simply because of its sensitive nature, the same as yelling "Fire" in a packed theater. Sure you have the right to free speech, but once you endanger someone else you forfeit said right.

I don't think that goes into the family unit. I agree with what you say, but inside your own family I don't think there is precedent for arguing that in court. It wouldn't even take a good lawyer to win a case like that.

DenverChief · 03-27-2008, 08:16 PM

Faith-Healing Couple Sentenced

Dennis and Lorie Nixon were sentenced in early June to 2-1/2 to 5 years each in prison for the death of their daughter, Shannon, 16, who succumbed to treatable complications from diabetes in June 1996 when her parents followed their church's faith-healing doctrine rather than summoning medical help.
The Nixons were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in April for the death of their second child due to faith-healing practices. The Nixons previously pleaded no contest and were given probation for the 1991 death of their son, Clayton, 8, who died of an untreated ear infection.

Mrs. Nixon, 44, was due to give birth to her eleventh child in July. Blair County Judge Norman Callan has ordered social workers to visit the Nixons' home monthly to protect the remaining children.

03-27-2008, 07:12 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	These "parents" should face criminal charges http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering." Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body. Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith." The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now." The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead. She is survived by her parents and three older siblings. "We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time." The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway. Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
Posts: 88,960

03-27-2008, 08:11 PM	#25
DenverChief MVP Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rocky Ford Casino cash: $5739867	Just FYI this kind of "healing" has been banned in colorado because of this
Posts: 16,177

03-27-2008, 08:16 PM	#30
DenverChief MVP Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rocky Ford Casino cash: $5739867	Faith-Healing Couple Sentenced Dennis and Lorie Nixon were sentenced in early June to 2-1/2 to 5 years each in prison for the death of their daughter, Shannon, 16, who succumbed to treatable complications from diabetes in June 1996 when her parents followed their church's faith-healing doctrine rather than summoning medical help. The Nixons were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in April for the death of their second child due to faith-healing practices. The Nixons previously pleaded no contest and were given probation for the 1991 death of their son, Clayton, 8, who died of an untreated ear infection. Mrs. Nixon, 44, was due to give birth to her eleventh child in July. Blair County Judge Norman Callan has ordered social workers to visit the Nixons' home monthly to protect the remaining children.
Posts: 16,177