I have a bad feeling.........

[KCWolfman]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

This makes perfect sense to me. Of course, we're talking dealing with government here, so faultless logic may not apply.

Probably not. The city is the main beneficiary and the city has made the laws regarding distribution, creation, and billing of water services. I wouldn't be surprised if there is already laws on the books to cover this issue. Also note, the meter reading is not six years old, it is current. The previous billable manual reading was made six years ago and again is subject to local city laws. I would first become versed in local law before contacting the city attorney or pay a local lawyer 200.00 to review the law and have him contact the city.

[KCWolfman]

For example,

You would be able to beat city hall in Liberty, Missouri with an attorney. Here is their law regarding the topic of meter readings:

Sec. 29-28. Meter failure, calculation of charges.
Whenever water is taken by meter measurement and by reason of a temporary defect in the meter or failure to read the meter and the monthly or period bill cannot be arrived at accurately, the collector of water rates may make the bill an average of the preceding six (6) months.

There is no mention of failure to read a meter as being the responsibility of the tenant/owner.
Also in favor in Liberty

Sec. 29-43. Testing meters.
It shall be the duty of the utilities director to cause frequent inspection of meters bi-annually. All meters shall be tested as often as may be necessary to insure their thorough repair and accurate registration. No charge shall be made for such inspection and testing. When an actual test of the meter, made at the request of the consumer, shows the same to be in order and showing correct registration, a charge of twenty-five dollars ($25.00) shall be made and collected by the director of finance.
(Ord. No. 2024, § 43; Ord. No. 3422; Ord. No. 6370, § 1, 6-8-92)

Since you have stated it has been 6.5 years, if you were in Liberty, your lawyer could state the city has been remiss in the testing of the meter on at least 3 separate occassions and is primarily responsible for any inaccurate or failed readings.


This is the kind of information you need to pursue prior to contacting the city attorney. I would also recommend strongly spending that 200.00 - 300.00 bucks for an attorney. It sure beats 2800.00 and he would be able to find out more than you can.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

For example,

You would be able to beat city hall in Liberty, Missouri with an attorney. Here is their law regarding the topic of meter readings:

Sec. 29-28. Meter failure, calculation of charges.
Whenever water is taken by meter measurement and by reason of a temporary defect in the meter or failure to read the meter and the monthly or period bill cannot be arrived at accurately, the collector of water rates may make the bill an average of the preceding six (6) months.

There is no mention of failure to read a meter as being the responsibility of the tenant/owner.
Also in favor in Liberty

Sec. 29-43. Testing meters.
It shall be the duty of the utilities director to cause frequent inspection of meters bi-annually. All meters shall be tested as often as may be necessary to insure their thorough repair and accurate registration. No charge shall be made for such inspection and testing. When an actual test of the meter, made at the request of the consumer, shows the same to be in order and showing correct registration, a charge of twenty-five dollars ($25.00) shall be made and collected by the director of finance.
(Ord. No. 2024, § 43; Ord. No. 3422; Ord. No. 6370, § 1, 6-8-92)

Since you have stated it has been 6.5 years, if you were in Liberty, your lawyer could state the city has been remiss in the testing of the meter on at least 3 separate occassions and is primarily responsible for any inaccurate or failed readings.


This is the kind of information you need to pursue prior to contacting the city attorney. I would also recommend strongly spending that 200.00 - 300.00 bucks for an attorney. It sure beats 2800.00 and he would be able to find out more than you can.

Outstanding!

I hope Marcellus kicks their ass.

[Skip Towne]

I would certainly contest their meter readings that were 6 years apart. That was entirely their fault and it deprived you of a month to month accurate account of your water usage. You could have had a leak under your house that you had no way of knowing about that you would have had with monthly readings. If they were dealing with me they would have one hell of a time collecting one dime. Their mistake, they can absorb it.

[chief52]

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

I would certainly contest their meter readings that were 6 years apart. That was entirely their fault and it deprived you of a month to month accurate account of your water usage. You could have had a leak under your house that you had no way of knowing about that you would have had with monthly readings. If they were dealing with me they would have one hell of a time collecting one dime. Their mistake, they can absorb it.

Enjoy your outhouse, Skip

[chief52]

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

The utility can estimate a read, but this is way out of hand. They have an obligation to bill in a precise and prompt manner.

I work for Pacific Gas and Electric. I will ask someone what they think. This seems to be very neglectful on the utility's part...if it is all true as you state.

[KCWolfman]

Originally Posted by chief52

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

The utility can estimate a read, but this is way out of hand. They have an obligation to bill in a precise and prompt manner.

I work for Pacific Gas and Electric. I will ask someone what they think. This seems to be very neglectful on the utility's part...if it is all true as you state.

Again, usually true if it is a major utility. However, you are comparing PAC Gas to a city held entity, a city that gets to write its own rules regarding the billing services.

[chief52]

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

Again, usually true if it is a major utility. However, you are comparing PAC Gas to a city held entity, a city that gets to write its own rules regarding the billing services.

You may be right, but it sure seems unfair. Just flat not read a meter for 6 plus years and not notify the customer??? Either the utility is clueless or there is more to the story...

Wouldn't a city owned utility still have to follow rules laid down by the State Public Utilities Commision? It may be worth the time to give them a call.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by chief52

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

The utility can estimate a read, but this is way out of hand. They have an obligation to bill in a precise and prompt manner.

I work for Pacific Gas and Electric. I will ask someone what they think. This seems to be very neglectful on the utility's part...if it is all true as you state.

What you say here is true for the most part. However, in Kansas, cities are allowed to sell utilities but are not regulated by the KCC as any other utility is. Just another reason not to let the city in the act as they tend to make up their own rules. Either make them subject to KCC regulations as all other utilities are or kick their incompetent asses out of the business. I've already had my go around with the city of Chanute, Ks. and I kicked their asses. They ended up paying me money. They really hated that.

[PastorMikH]

Originally Posted by chief52

No utility is allowed to estimate usage for that period of time. One year would be way out of line IMO. You would be notified the first month the meter reader could not get in and within a couple of months the reader should either get in or your utility shut off.

Say, that just triggered something. If they were so afraid of your dog that they wouldn't step into the yard to read your meter, then perhaps you should get a couple of pit bulls to turn loose in your backyard. That way you can just quit paying the bill altogether and the same guys that were afraid of your dog will be too afraid of the pits to step foot in your yard to turn off your service.

[Priestgets30TDs]

Isn't the statute of limitations 2 maybe 3 years in Kansas to collect a debt? Are there any Planet lawyers out there? I'm sure they could poke holes in this real fast. A roomate of mine from college never paid me the $600 he owed me from utilities' bills. I've accepted that he has no legal obligation to pay me because I didn't sue him in time. I kept reminding him that he needed to pay me and told him to f**k off many times... but after 2 years I had no legal action to take. The City has to obey the same laws.

[cmh6476]

hire an attorney.

I'm sure there are a few here...

[Kyle401]

Oh, and to avoid paying a consultation fee if there really isn't much you can do, I would contact your state AGO. They may have some idea of how these situations have been handled in the past. They should be able to tell you what you should do.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Don't forget to write at least ONE letter to the editor of your local newspaper. Try and get AS MUCH media coverage as possible.

[jspchief]

I'd say you owe the money (assuming the rates and such are accurate), but you should be given an equal amount of time to pay it pack. For instance, if they've been estimating your bill for the last 5 years, you should get five years to pay it back.

One question? Didn't you find it odd that you were using the exact same amount of water every single month for the last 5+ years?

That being said, I'd say the water company has some culpability for letting this go on as long as it has.