Football Are NFL kickers becoming too good? - Page 2

Deberg_1990 · 09-14-2012, 09:00 AM

Akers kicks a 63 yearder.....Kaeding went 5 for 5....

Why are the Chiefs still stuck with a guy who struggles with 41 yarders?

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...ld_goals_.html

in Week 1 kickers made 67 of 72 field-goal attempts, or 93 percent. Oh, and the 49ers’ David Akers became the fourth kicker—after Tom Dempsey in 1970, Jason Elam in 1998, and Sebastian Janikowski last year—to kick a 63-yarder. He also became the fifth active NFL kicker to make one from beyond 60.

I’ve written before that the improvement in NFL kicking since the 1970s is one of the greatest non-equipment-aided performance leaps in any sport. Today’s kickers are bigger, stronger, physically and mentally better conditioned, and, most important, more technically sophisticated than their counterparts in the early days of the “sidewinder” or “soccer-style” kicker. This guy, for one, wouldn’t sniff the field today.

Kickers are so good now—more precisely, the distance from which they can score three points and their accuracy from all distances has increased to such a degree—that NFL coaches use them more than ever. NFL teams attempted a record 1,011 field goals in 2011, which works out to about four attempts per game. In 1984, the figure was 3.5 FG/G. In 1974, it was 3.0. As kickers have improved, the NFL has tried to make their job harder: in 1974, moving the goalposts to the rear of the end zone; in 1995, placing the ball at the spot of the kick instead of the line of scrimmage after a missed FG; in 1999, making them boot new, hard K balls.

**HemiEd** · 09-14-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

For what he is, Succop is a great kicker. He generally misses one at the beginning of the year, then lights fire the rest of the way. I'm not even remotely worried about Ryan ****ing Succop.

Yeah, but you are working on Sundays. The rest of us are worried.

htismaqe · 09-14-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

That's particularly painful when Mason Crosby went the next round.

All you had to do was watch college football and it was clear that Crosby was the best kicker out there.

No, he wasn't.

Crosby had concerns about ball trajectory coming out. People were concerned he was going to push the ball low because to the long kicking he did in college.

This is pure 100% revisionist history.

suds79 · 09-14-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No, he wasn't.

Crosby had concerns about ball trajectory coming out. People were concerned he was going to push the ball low because to the long kicking he did in college.

This is pure 100% revisionist history.

All I know is I had to hear about all year long from a CU buddy about how freaking good Crosby is.

Then you see him blasting long field goals all year long.

And he has proven clearly the best. So I guess if I'm wrong and it wasn't easy to see, then my buddy & I are just awesome talent evaluators. :P

Just to follow up.. You are right about some of the scouting report thing. (low trajectory)

However, this site rated him as clearly #1
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/p...ospect_id=1185

CoMoChief · 09-14-2012, 10:36 AM

Shhh....don't tell people here that Succop sucks.

I've held my breath everytime he comes in to kick a FG. He's not clutch.

The guy is simply not that great of a kicker. I was pissed off as hell that we didn't go after Alex Henery

Dayze · 09-14-2012, 10:39 AM

I know one thing....the XP is a joke.
do away with that chit, or change it.

TRR · 09-14-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Shhh....don't tell people here that Succop sucks.

I've held my breath everytime he comes in to kick a FG. He's not clutch.

The guy is simply not that great of a kicker. I was pissed off as hell that we didn't go after Alex Henery

Agreed. I don't trust him at all. His stats suggest he is an above average kicker, but it always seems he is missing untimely FG's. Also, his leg strength on kickoffs is starting to drive me nuts. Other kickers are booming the ball threw the uprights on kick-offs. It seems his is mid-endzone at best.

Not a huge Succop fan.

**Baby Lee** · 09-14-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No, he wasn't.

Crosby had concerns about ball trajectory coming out. People were concerned he was going to push the ball low because to the long kicking he did in college.

This is pure 100% revisionist history.

How can that be a legitimate concern? Kicking trajectories are not like QB mechanics. Experienced kickers can offer up kicks at whatever trajectory the situation calls for.

htismaqe · 09-14-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

How can that be a legitimate concern? Kicking trajectories are not like QB mechanics. Experienced kickers can offer up kicks at whatever trajectory the situation calls for.

Maybe the concern was that he wasn't experienced enough to do it the way you say?

**Baby Lee** · 09-14-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Maybe the concern was that he wasn't experienced enough to do it the way you say?

I guess that's possible, it's just that I bristle at the notion of immutable kicking traits after spending so much of my youth practicing being able to place a soccer ball wherever I wanted in the goal mouth from any spot on the field within 60 yards. Your intended target determines your trajectory, not some unchangeable kicking motion you're wedded to.

Get a few barley pops in me, and I might start thinking I could deliver a more catchable kick than Cassel can deliver a catchable ball at over 40 yards.

htismaqe · 09-14-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I guess that's possible, it's just that I bristle at the notion of immutable kicking traits after spending so much of my youth practicing being able to place a soccer ball wherever I wanted in the goal mouth from any spot on the field within 60 yards. Your intended target determines your trajectory, not some unchangeable kicking motion you're wedded to.

Maybe it's like a golf swing.

Your mechanics ALLOW you to lay the ball up with a bit of backspin and get the ball to stop on a dime but when you get up to take your swing, your competitive nature tells you to rip it, resulting in the ball sailing over the green and into the sandtrap.

**Baby Lee** · 09-14-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Maybe it's like a golf swing.

Your mechanics ALLOW you to lay the ball up with a bit of backspin and get the ball to stop on a dime but when you get up to take your swing, your competitive nature tells you to rip it, resulting in the ball sailing over the green and into the sandtrap.

Truce, I can see where a kicker can be knocked as insufficiently proficient, or not practiced enough, or wilting under pressure, or just plain yippy.

My point was that 'trajectory' alone is not a valid knock on kickers, like a low or slow delivery might be for a QB.

htismaqe · 09-14-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Truce, I can see where a kicker can be knocked as insufficiently proficient, or not practiced enough, or wilting under pressure, or just plain yippy.

My point was that 'trajectory' alone is not a valid knock on kickers, like a low or slow delivery might be for a QB.

Yeah, and I'm not a kicker or an NFL scout.

I just know that coming into that draft, there were concerns about Crosby's "style" and whether or not he could become a consistently good kicker or a poor man's Janikowski.

And in the end, hindsight is 50/50. The people that thought Crosby would be the better kicker were right, regardless of their reasoning.

Deberg_1990 · 09-14-2012, 11:33 AM

I think the popular opinion was that the Chiefs drafted Medlock because of the UCLA connection.

**Baby Lee** · 09-14-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yeah, and I'm not a kicker or an NFL scout.

I just know that coming into that draft, there were concerns about Crosby's "style" and whether or not he could become a consistently good kicker or a poor man's Janikowski.

And in the end, hindsight is 50/50. The people that thought Crosby would be the better kicker were right, regardless of their reasoning.

Not to belabor, but in hopes of providing a visual analog to what I'm trying to say. We played a shit ton of BB during lunch hours in HS, and there was a kid we played with who was a crack shot, but was very short. And whether it was a 3-pointer or a layup, he had two trajectories for any shot. Normal if he's wide open or on a fast break, and a much higher looping trajectory with the bigs in his face. He could snap in and out of each trajectory unconsciously, depending on the situation. His shooting proficiency was largely the same with either as well.

jd1020 · 09-14-2012, 11:35 AM

50% of the kickers drafted in the 1st round have made it to a SB. Time to draft one in the 1st round.

09-14-2012, 09:00 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3834454	Are NFL kickers becoming too good? Akers kicks a 63 yearder.....Kaeding went 5 for 5.... Why are the Chiefs still stuck with a guy who struggles with 41 yarders? http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...ld_goals_.html in Week 1 kickers made 67 of 72 field-goal attempts, or 93 percent. Oh, and the 49ers’ David Akers became the fourth kicker—after Tom Dempsey in 1970, Jason Elam in 1998, and Sebastian Janikowski last year—to kick a 63-yarder. He also became the fifth active NFL kicker to make one from beyond 60. I’ve written before that the improvement in NFL kicking since the 1970s is one of the greatest non-equipment-aided performance leaps in any sport. Today’s kickers are bigger, stronger, physically and mentally better conditioned, and, most important, more technically sophisticated than their counterparts in the early days of the “sidewinder” or “soccer-style” kicker. This guy, for one, wouldn’t sniff the field today. Kickers are so good now—more precisely, the distance from which they can score three points and their accuracy from all distances has increased to such a degree—that NFL coaches use them more than ever. NFL teams attempted a record 1,011 field goals in 2011, which works out to about four attempts per game. In 1984, the figure was 3.5 FG/G. In 1974, it was 3.0. As kickers have improved, the NFL has tried to make their job harder: in 1974, moving the goalposts to the rear of the end zone; in 1995, placing the ball at the spot of the kick instead of the line of scrimmage after a missed FG; in 1999, making them boot new, hard K balls.
Posts: 66,914

09-14-2012, 10:36 AM	#19
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8042254	Shhh....don't tell people here that Succop sucks. I've held my breath everytime he comes in to kick a FG. He's not clutch. The guy is simply not that great of a kicker. I was pissed off as hell that we didn't go after Alex Henery __________________
Posts: 39,163

09-14-2012, 10:39 AM	#20
Dayze Resident Glue Sniffer Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $5019358	I know one thing....the XP is a joke. do away with that chit, or change it.
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09-14-2012, 11:33 AM	#28
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3834454	I think the popular opinion was that the Chiefs drafted Medlock because of the UCLA connection. __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 66,914

09-14-2012, 11:35 AM	#30
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7712645	50% of the kickers drafted in the 1st round have made it to a SB. Time to draft one in the 1st round.
Posts: 24,332