Which was most influential

[milkman]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The Beatles absolutely changed the direction of music, and are responsible for the crap noise that has been generated for the last 40 years.

I don't dislike the Beatles, but I despise the dircection that music took as a result of their influence.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by milkman

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The Beatles absolutely changed the direction of music, and are responsible for the crap noise that has been generated for the last 40 years.

I don't dislike the Beatles, but I despise the direction that music took as a result of their influence.

I would list that under "inspire" not influence. I know I am kinda defining my own terms here but I don't see much of what they did as anything particularly new or special.. just popular. the Beach Boys on the other hand actually create new sounds... so did Phil Spector for that matter.

I agree with you that they influenced music in the way you are defining it... for sure. I am just trying to take the conversation more into the realm of actual changes to how the music is structured or played. I guess I should change the term to INNOVATE.. I don't see either as big innovators but the bands I listed were.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I would list that under "inspire" not influence. I know I am kinda defining my own terms here but I don't see much of what they did as anything particularly new or special.. just popular. the Beach Boys on the other hand actually create new sounds... so did Phil Spector for that matter.

I agree with you that they influenced music in the way you are defining it... for sure. I am just trying to take the conversation more into the realm of actual changes to how the music is structured or played. I guess I should change the term to INNOVATE.. I don't see either as big innovators but the bands I listed were.

It was their innovation that changed the direction of music.

A song like "She's Leaving Home" was groundbreaking and introduced the idea that musical instruments just making noise is music.

Now it's all just ****ing noise.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

I'll disagree about The Beatles there. Their early stuff was literally just pop fodder but their later stuff... Sgt. Peppers, I Am The Walrus etc was pretty ground breaking.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever

I'll disagree about The Beatles there. Their early stuff was literally just pop fodder but their later stuff... Sgt. Peppers, I Am The Walrus etc was pretty ground breaking.

Hence why I said it could be argued "as they matured"... although by that time they weren't really pushing an envelope that hadn't already been pushed by bands like The Beach Boys with multi-track recording and Phil Spector with his wall of sound. Even Paul McCartney admits that a ton of what came out on Sgt Peppers was inspired by Good Vibrations.

They simply weren't very ground breaking. Again, top 50 in the 20th century in that regard... maybe.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Hence why I said it could be argued "as they matured"... although by that time they weren't really pushing an envelope that hadn't already been pushed by bands like The Beach Boys with multi-track recording and Phil Spector with his wall of sound. Even Paul McCartney admits that a ton of what came out on Sgt Peppers was inspired by Good Vibrations.

They simply weren't very ground breaking. Again, top 50 in the 20th century in that regard... maybe.

I saw the rest of your post. I pretty much just wanted to further the debate heh.

While I appreciate what they did...... God I hate the Beach Boys. Just passionately hate them. Sorry.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Hence why I said it could be argued "as they matured"... although by that time they weren't really pushing an envelope that hadn't already been pushed by bands like The Beach Boys with multi-track recording and Phil Spector with his wall of sound. Even Paul McCartney admits that a ton of what came out on Sgt Peppers was inspired by Good Vibrations.

They simply weren't very ground breaking. Again, top 50 in the 20th century in that regard... maybe.

Google the story about how Rubber Soul drove Brian Wilson.

And I see your differentiation between influence and innovation, I can't credit the Beach Boys with widespread influence as, aside from an era of surf music that they influenced and were influenced by, they pretty much stand on an island alone. You'd be hard pressed to come up with a large list that you'd label 'Beach Boys 2.0,' or 'Beach Boys of 80s/90s/some other subgenre' If something sounds like the Beach Boys, 9 times out of 10 is IS the Beach Boys, or offshoot project.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

Yeah, influence is quite subjective, and has to relate to the time period I would think. Charlie Parker and Buddy Holly yes, oh hell yes when it comes to influence.

[HemiEd]

Influence=change so I vote Elvis.
I didn't really care that much for Elvis, and the Beatles dominated the music scene in my teen years all the way to my 20s.
The Stones had a bigger influence with my crowd.
Never was that big of fan of the Beatles, preferred bands like Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Grand Funk and Steve Miller Band.

How can I not mention "Ten Years After?"

In true retrospect, "The Boxtops" had the biggest early influence on me.

[MIAdragon]

Bob Dylan and the Stones have to be up there.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by MIAdragon

Bob Dylan and the Stones have to be up there.

Putting up a top 10, just for kicks, and purely off the cuff

Beatles
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Nirvana [time limited, but huge temporary impact]
NWA
Woodie Guthrie
Black Sabbath
Johnny Cash

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Putting up a top 10, just for kicks, and purely off the cuff

Beatles
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Nirvana [time limited, but huge temporary impact]
NWA
Woodie Guthrie
Black Sabbath
Johnny Cash

Substitute NWA for Run DMC.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Child please, both are great technicians, but they aren't influences. They extended the zietgiest, but they didn't revolutionize it. No noticeable segment of the population wakes up wanting to dress, create, eat, live, play like them, not on the level of the Beatles and Elvis. Madonna and Lady Gaga are frankly ahead of them on those terms, though they're still behind the big two.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Putting up a top 10, just for kicks, and purely off the cuff

Beatles
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Nirvana [time limited, but huge temporary impact]
NWA
Woodie Guthrie
Black Sabbath
Johnny Cash

I're and ideiot.

TBH, though. I'm struggling with gauging Madonna's influence teetering between a mean old white man undervaluing her, and a guilt-laden old white man overvaluing her, all along unable to place myself in the shoes of those of the fairer sex she influenced.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever

The Beatles or Elvis Presley. Debergs prog rock thread started me thinking and I thought it was a fairly easy choice until I talked to a few others about it and looked up some numbers. Now it seems like a toss up... although I know what my original gut feeling was.

The Beatles...
Best selling band in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
22 #1 singles world wide
7 grammys
10 films

Elvis Presley
Best selling solo act in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
36 #1 singles
3 grammys
33 films

Of course there is plenty of other criteria. What say you though?

I didn't realize Elvis sold so many records...

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I didn't realize Elvis sold so many records...

They're by far the 2 biggest selling acts of all time. The only 2 over a billion units sold and both over half way to 2 billion. Michael Jackson is 3rd at 750 million.