Chiefs The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap - Page 3

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 09:17 PM

A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap.

Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later.

However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield).

For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6".

For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs.

I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set.

Cliffs:
1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy.
2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap.
3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL.

I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

Allen Bailey is worthless, IMO. We could find an asshole off the street to do his job.

We tried and our 1st round pick sucks ass even worse in the same position.

Hammock Parties · 10-01-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

He has no pass rush moves. He has no quickness/explosiveness of the LOS. me.

And yet the Patriotards informed us at Jackson's introductory press conference that he could play 3-tech inside on passing downs.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Pretty sure everyone projected him to be a 5-technique or an under tackle. He's not a good pass rusher and he's slow. Not qualities you want out of your DE.

Rep

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

And yet the Patriotards informed us at Jackson's introductory press conference that he could play 3-tech inside on passing downs.

I mean, I'm sure that was the ideal situation. Smae reason we drafted Poe. And Bailey.

The fact is, Belichick was the guy who broke down D-Lineman for NE. Not Pioli.

And that is why we suck but have been marginally improving at getting an interior pass rush from our DL in sub packages (2-3-6 if BB is lurking.)

T-post Tom · 10-01-2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Where would Houston go in this scenario?

Now that is an issue. And a byproduct of the "square peg in a round hole" dysfunctional state of the defensive front seven. Not sure how he fits in, but you certainly want his pass rushing skills to be used. He was a value pick and I'm excited to see how he evolves. I hope someone figures out how to maximize the skill on our defense.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

Now that is an issue. And a byproduct of the "square peg in a round hole" dysfunctional state of the defensive front seven. Not sure how he fits in, but you certainly want his pass rushing skills to be used. He was a value pick and I'm excited to see how he evolves. I hope someone figures out how to maximize the skill on our defense.

****, this is the 4th time I've posted this.

If we were to go to the 4-3, we would use Houston at the SAM spot, like Denver uses Von Miller.

mcaj22 · 10-01-2012, 11:37 PM

i have a hard time figuring out which turd was the crappier draft pick by Pioli

Javier Arenas or Allen Bailey. Because they are both terrible in sub package

i have been siding with Arenas cause he took that stain in the 2nd ****ing round, over actual talent that could have helped this team

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22

i have a hard time figuring out which turd was the crappier draft pick by Pioli

Javier Arenas or Allen Bailey. Because they are both terrible in sub package

i have been siding with Arenas cause he took that stain in the 2nd ****ing round, over actual talent that could have helped this team

Javier is worse than Allen IMO.

There is still a chance for Bailey to productive just rushing the passer ( he showed flashes against NE, Pitt, and GB last year).

Javier, IMO is a lost cause. We've talked about this before (a good idea in theory bc you need 3 corners) but it hasn't worked. Boykin from GA would have been nice to have over Wylie, who hasn't stepped foot on the field.
Revisionist history though.

mcaj22 · 10-01-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

Javier is worse than Allen IMO.

There is still a chance for Bailey to productive just rushing the passer ( he showed flashes against NE, Pitt, and GB last year).

Javier, IMO is a lost cause. We've talked about this before (a good idea in theory bc you need 3 corners) but it hasn't worked. Boykin from GA would have been nice to have over Wylie, who hasn't stepped foot on the field.
Revisionist history though.

that Pioli's entire 4 years of drafting though, all Revisionist History.

Especially those 2009 and 2010 draft classes. Absolute Abortions. Dude is an awful scout/evaluator and tries to be smarter than he is by convincing people he picks these smart players that are better than actual athletic talent. And sadly, a lot of us bought into that crap philosophy he spews and without Tom Brady it translates to dog shit on the field because there is not enough athleticism/actual talent put out there.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22

that Pioli's entire 4 years of drafting though, all Revisionist History.

Especially those 2009 and 2010 draft classes. Absolute Abortions. Dude is an awful scout/evaluator and tries to be smarter than he is by convincing people he picks these smart players that are better than actual athletic talent. And sadly, a lot of us bought into that crap philosophy he spews and without Tom Brady it translates to dog shit on the field because there is not enough athleticism/actual talent put out there.

He picks out role players.

Guys who can be average, or slightly above. They can contribute but aren't going to be making plays to win/change games.

Pioli has never picked a star (Houston/Berry non-withstanding).

mcaj22 · 10-01-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

He picks out role players.

Guys who can be average, or slightly above. They can contribute but aren't going to be making plays to win/change games.

Pioli has never picked a star (Houston/Berry non-withstanding).

in four years he passed over a lot of talent in the draft looking back.

a lot. like not even a monkey could **** up some of those picks. People on this forum where smarter at predicting the better NFL talent they would have hoped the Chiefs drafted. That's how sad it is. How good this team could have been if we had a GM with half a brain that did not care about his own ego/Patriots Tree garbage philosophies.

case and point: Jake O Connell is still on the 53 man Chiefs roster. a 2009 draft pick by Pioli. In year 4. Why. Why Why why why why

Hammock Parties · 10-01-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

Javier is worse than Allen IMO.

There is still a chance for Bailey to productive just rushing the passer ( he showed flashes against NE, Pitt, and GB last year).

Javier, IMO is a lost cause. We've talked about this before (a good idea in theory bc you need 3 corners) but it hasn't worked. Boykin from GA would have been nice to have over Wylie, who hasn't stepped foot on the field.
Revisionist history though.

He got burned deep in NO, and Royal owned him Sunday.

He's another Pioli bust.

He's also the Thomas Jones of punt returners. If you need 5 yards he'll get you 12. If you need 20 yards, he'll get you 12.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:51 PM

Yup. When you really go back through the entirety of the drafts from 2009, you start to pull your hair out.

I mean, you go through every pick as if you're the GM and think of how it played out then. There are so many picks by Pioli that he should have been fired for, it is unreal.

Granted, you're not going to hit on every pick but wow. Taking DMC and Arenas over Gronk and Graham?

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

He got burned deep in NO, and Royal owned him Sunday.

He's another Pioli bust.

He's also the Thomas Jones of punt returners. If you need 5 yards he'll get you 12. If you need 20 yards, he'll get you 12.

Agree completely. I had high hopes for Javier when he arrived here and the reports from UA coaches were high on him. He has been sub-par and I hope that whoever our GM is next year drafts a solid nickel who excels in man coverage in the slot. Menzies might be the guy but if Crennel is here, Menzie won't be playing that position, IMO. Not saying he'l be a good player, but if he's here he isn't replacing Arenas.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:54 PM

He(Menzie) won't replace him due to the philosophy and position he was drafted to play IMO.

10-01-2012, 09:17 PM
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9631474	The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap. Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later. However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield). For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6". For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs. I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set. Cliffs: 1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy. 2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap. 3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL. I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.
Posts: 18,453

10-01-2012, 11:37 PM	#37
mcaj22 MVP Join Date: Feb 2010 Casino cash: $10014454	i have a hard time figuring out which turd was the crappier draft pick by Pioli Javier Arenas or Allen Bailey. Because they are both terrible in sub package i have been siding with Arenas cause he took that stain in the 2nd ****ing round, over actual talent that could have helped this team
Posts: 11,886

10-01-2012, 11:51 PM	#43
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9631474	Yup. When you really go back through the entirety of the drafts from 2009, you start to pull your hair out. I mean, you go through every pick as if you're the GM and think of how it played out then. There are so many picks by Pioli that he should have been fired for, it is unreal. Granted, you're not going to hit on every pick but wow. Taking DMC and Arenas over Gronk and Graham?
Posts: 18,453

10-01-2012, 11:54 PM	#45
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9631474	He(Menzie) won't replace him due to the philosophy and position he was drafted to play IMO.
Posts: 18,453