Ben Steins Movie - EXPELLED

[irishjayhawk]

There are two reasons I'm posting in this thread today. First, the movie comes out this Friday. Second, I have two bits of new information to pass along.

The first is that www.expelledexposed.com went live. It's now a resource that debunks every claim made by Stein and his henchmen instead of a compilation of links to other reviews and news. It's a pretty good read for a lot of it.

The second is just plain funny:

THEY PLAGIARIZED AGAIN!

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot...ets-angry.html

Make that 2 videos that are straight copies of other pre-existing videos. One from Harvard and one from, none other than, PBS.

[mikey23545]

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

There are two reasons I'm posting in this thread today. First, the movie comes out this Friday. Second, I have two bits of new information to pass along.

The first is that www.expelledexposed.com went live. It's now a resource that debunks every claim made by Stein and his henchmen instead of a compilation of links to other reviews and news. It's a pretty good read for a lot of it.

The second is just plain funny:

THEY PLAGIARIZED AGAIN!

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot...ets-angry.html

Make that 2 videos that are straight copies of other pre-existing videos. One from Harvard and one from, none other than, PBS.

I personally don't care much about this movie one way or the other (I am an atheist, btw), but if nothing in this movie is true, why the incredibly violent reaction by those accused of blackballing and censorship?

Sorry, but innocent people just don't react this way...

[tiptap]

Originally Posted by mikey23545

I personally don't care much about this movie one way or the other (I am an atheist, btw), but if nothing in this movie is true, why the incredibly violent reaction by those accused of blackballing and censorship?

Sorry, but innocent people just don't react this way...

The debate is not simply a philosophical one. There are real consequences, say treating disease for example. (Cancer is usually used in this regard.) Determining pathogens depends upon markers that are related to phylogenetic trees. So to introduce evolution as wrong is to remove the uniting piece of thought that helps direct research. This practical aspect is upheld by creationists in their acceptance of Microevolution. (It doesn't go far enough to account for the fusion of Chromosome 2 of humans from two separate chromosomes in other apes. It doesn't go far enough to explain viruses fused in our chromosomes as being the same as apes.) And there are real consequences to our understanding to discredit evolution.

And the way the ID people have decided to do that (as revealed in the Dover trial) is to argue that ID is being attacked unfairly. That it should be given equal footing intellectually based upon fairness. This film is of that ilk. What it fails to talk about is that ID doesn't have any value in investigating biological systems. It is by its nature not looking to understand how things occurred. Because by understanding the process then that removes the argument that it is making to state that there is some intelligent intervention.

If there were not real consequences there would not be real commitment to festoon the notion.

[irishjayhawk]

Originally Posted by mikey23545

I personally don't care much about this movie one way or the other (I am an atheist, btw), but if nothing in this movie is true, why the incredibly violent reaction by those accused of blackballing and censorship?

Sorry, but innocent people just don't react this way...

It's propaganda. I don't think you'd argue that Nazi propaganda would be a bad thing and the Jews reacting against it were innocent.

That's a pretty weak argument.

Just look at our country and see the unreason, failing logic, ignorant masses that happen to be comfortable in their ignorance. And see why science has to fight back.

Also, there is nothing violent. Just persistent. You don't see the scientists shooting, bombing, etc. Hell I doubt you'll see them protest it in person. And further, in a court of law, are you suggesting that when someone is accused of something they go quietly otherwise they are guilty.....

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by mikey23545

I personally don't care much about this movie one way or the other (I am an atheist, btw), but if nothing in this movie is true, why the incredibly violent reaction by those accused of blackballing and censorship?

Sorry, but innocent people just don't react this way...

Why the reaction? Violent reaction? Have there been incidents of assault and battery or murder? Rioting at the theaters? I don't think so. Let me put it this way...it's as if a new expansion team tries to join the NFL (Scientific Community), but due to the way they are built they can't compete according to the basic rules of the NFL (or, the Scientific Method). So they insist (and file lawsuits, and put out BS propaganda) in an attempt to force the NFL to change their rules so they can play too. I think the NFL wouldn't respond favorably, nor should the Scientific Community.

ID is based on Irreducible Complexity. Irreducible Complexity is not falsifiable, and thus not subject to the Scientific Method. If it's not subject to the Scientific Method, guess what? It's not part of Science. That's a simple fact, no matter how much Ben Stein kvetches and derides the Scientific Method as mere "dogma".

Why should Scientists heed people who have the goal of changing the definition and fundamental basis of Science (the search for natural explanations) just so ID can be taught in Science classes? That's akin to insisting we teach Astrology in Astronomy class, Phrenology in Psychology class, or Leeching in Medical School, in order to "teach the controversy".

Teach ID in schools for all I care, but teach it as what it is...Philosophy.

This doesn't deserve "hate" from the Scientific Community. It deserves laughter at it's utter absurdity.

JMO.

[markk]

hadn't heard much about this but i just checked and it is showing in my town. i'll go see it on friday.

i didnt even know what this was about really until i heard of people complaining and making websites about it and such. the negative publicity is probably the best promotion that the film makers could ask for.

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by markk

hadn't heard much about this but i just checked and it is showing in my town. i'll go see it on friday.

i didnt even know what this was about really until i heard of people complaining and making websites about it and such. the negative publicity is probably the best promotion that the film makers could ask for.

I'm sure that was part of the thought process when it was put together. By getting the Scientific Community and it's supporters to address the absurdity, whether positively or negatively, one gives some measure of credence to that absurdity. That is the essence of propaganda.

As for my moviegoing dollars, I'll be spending them this weekend on "The Forbidden Kingdom". It probably won't make me laugh as much as "Expelled" would, but the money won't support the ID movement, so it's a win/win.

[irishjayhawk]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

I'm sure that was part of the thought process when it was put together. By getting the Scientific Community and it's supporters to address the absurdity, whether positively or negatively, one gives some measure of credence to that absurdity. That is the essence of propaganda.

As for my moviegoing dollars, I'll be spending them this weekend on "The Forbidden Kingdom". It probably won't make me laugh as much as "Expelled" would, but the money won't support the ID movement, so it's a win/win.

Forgetting Sarah Marshall gets mine.