Installing a passenger side mirror?

[Frosty]

The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Frosty

The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

If I quote someone 8 hours to work on a website....it's because worst case scenario....it should only take me 8 hours to do it. If I complete it in 5 hours.....I charge them 5 hours because that's the ACTUAL amount of time that it took me to do it.

There is a huge difference between your business and mine there, but that being said, if they signed off on a contract for 8 hours, you have every right to charge for 8 hours. If you feel you need to charge only 5, go for it. In my world, more often than not, it takes longer than the quote to get the job done right, and my mechanics probably spend twice that amount actually working on the car, not even just the job.

Originally Posted by Saul Good

You are charging for hours of labor that weren't performed and shouldn't have been needed knowing fully well that you weren't going to spend that long on the job.

No I'm not.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

So as a shop owner....would you be pissed if I sat there and timed you working on my car?

Not at all, we had complimentary coffee, TV, and some nice, comfy chairs for you to sit in while you waited.

I encourage you to time us on our job.

[chiefforlife]

This is getting out of hand.

Actual book time on that mirror is 1 hour. If you called my shop and asked, we would quote you 1 hour. Period.

We do install bulbs on most vehicles at no charge other than the bulb itself. If you are a good customer, we probably wouldnt charge you at all for that. I have made many a customer by doing this for someone in the parking lot and saying, there you go its on me.

I think exort is getting hammered here, a lot of shops do what he is saying.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Not at all, we had complimentary coffee, TV, and some nice, comfy chairs for you to sit in while you waited.

I encourage you to time us on our job.

And if you quote me 4 hours.....and only take 2 hours and 15 minutes to complete the job.....am I allowed to question the bill?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.

I almost never have non-warranty work done at a dealer. I only went there because I thought GM might have a hidden warranty on it because it was a known problem. Also, when I bought my (new) pickup from them, I was told one of the reasons I should "buy local" (i.e. from them) was because they took care of their customers once the warranty was done.

If they charged more reasonable prices, maybe they would get more business and make more money to pay all of those expenses. However, maybe they don't want non-warranty work. Dunno.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I almost never have non-warranty work done at a dealer. I only went there because I thought GM might have a hidden warranty on it because it was a known problem. Also, when I bought my (new) pickup from them, I was told one of the reasons I should "buy local" (i.e. from them) was because they took care of their customers once the warranty was done.

If they charged more reasonable prices, maybe they would get more business and make more money to pay all of those expenses. However, maybe they don't want non-warranty work. Dunno.

Honestly, check the service bulletins on your car anytime you have a weird problem with it like that, a lot of times there will be a recall or an extended warranty replacement on an issue, and it will be fixed free of charge.

However, unless you specifically walk up to the service writer and tell him about the TSB you found, they aren't going to offer it unless it falls under an emergency recall, in which case you should have received a letter in the mail about it at some point. Dealerships do not like to do work for free, so they generally won't tell you about it unless it is a serious emergency. If it falls under a non emergency category, they might just charge you to replace it if you don't know better.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Honestly, check the service bulletins on your car anytime you have a weird problem with it like that, a lot of times there will be a recall or an extended warranty replacement on an issue, and it will be fixed free of charge.

However, unless you specifically walk up to the service writer and tell him about the TSB you found, they aren't going to offer it unless it falls under an emergency recall, in which case you should have received a letter in the mail about it at some point. Dealerships do not like to do work for free, so they generally won't tell you about it unless it is a serious emergency. If it falls under a non emergency category, they might just charge you to replace it if you don't know better.

Actually, I did have a copy of the TSB. That's when I got the song and dance about the book saying 2 hours.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Honestly, check the service bulletins on your car anytime you have a weird problem with it like that, a lot of times there will be a recall or an extended warranty replacement on an issue, and it will be fixed free of charge.

However, unless you specifically walk up to the service writer and tell him about the TSB you found, they aren't going to offer it unless it falls under an emergency recall, in which case you should have received a letter in the mail about it at some point. Dealerships do not like to do work for free, so they generally won't tell you about it unless it is a serious emergency. If it falls under a non emergency category, they might just charge you to replace it if you don't know better.

what pisses me off are TSBs that expire. My Mercury had a TSB issued for a buzzing issue related to the speedo. I didn't know that until after the period for claims against the TSB expired.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves.

Ugh, you work for a ****ing stealership? I'm sorry but stealership mechanics can kiss my dick. Most jobs I can handle. If I don't have the time or desire to fix it, I avoid ****ing stealerships at all costs. Mom and Pop shops charge rates that are more fair and generally give breaks on book time. They also don't bitch if I bring my own part because I have connections to get parts at better prices.

And in my experience stealership mechanics regularly "miss" warranty repairs and are very creative in figuring out ways to be reimbursed by the manufacturer and get paid by the customer.

I had a bent lower control arm on my regular 08 Mazda 3. That thing was at the ****ing stealership 4 times and they missed it everytime. When I was trying to get a warranty claim on my tires since I had been assured by the stealership that nothing was wrong with my suspension, the lacky at NTB spotted it within 10 minutes. The ****ing assholes at the stealership tried to say my shocks were bad despite me replacing them myself. When I shot that down, the dickheads tried to say that it was because my tires were soft.

**** stealerships and their mechanics.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by KC native

Ugh, you work for a ****ing stealership? I'm sorry but stealership mechanics can kiss my dick. Most jobs I can handle. If I don't have the time or desire to fix it, I avoid ****ing stealerships at all costs. Mom and Pop shops charge rates that are more fair and generally give breaks on book time. They also don't bitch if I bring my own part because I have connections to get parts at better prices.

And in my experience stealership mechanics regularly "miss" warranty repairs and are very creative in figuring out ways to be reimbursed by the manufacturer and get paid by the customer.

I had a bent lower control arm on my regular 08 Mazda 3. That thing was at the ****ing stealership 4 times and they missed it everytime. When I was trying to get a warranty claim on my tires since I had been assured by the stealership that nothing was wrong with my suspension, the lacky at NTB spotted it within 10 minutes. The ****ing assholes at the stealership tried to say my shocks were bad despite me replacing them myself. When I shot that down, the dickheads tried to say that it was because my tires were soft.

**** stealerships and their mechanics.

I've worked at a number of stealerships, I've owned two mom and pops, and again work at a stealership.

That being said, one is not always like the other.

I know I'm not ever going to change your opinion on the matter, but understand something for me real quick. Mechanics only look at what they are told to look at. It is up to the service writer to direct them to the issue. It is up to you, to direct the service writer on what the issue is, so he can pass it on to the mechanic.

You can't blame the mechanic, sometimes it is the service writer at fault, and a lot of times, the majority of the case ends up being the Customers fault for not being direct and specific with the service writer.

If you walk in and toss the keys to the service writer and say "There's something wrong with it, it drives funny", you're literally telling the service writer to **** off and the Mechanic is going to be in for a very long day of trying to figure out your incompetence.

That being said, I am not a greasemonkey, I'm not going to work on your mothers prius when she comes in, unless it has electrical problems or requires serious diagnostic work. That is my job, that is my forte. I'm the monkey in the back with the degrees and certificates in a specialized field who you get to pay an arm and a leg to because nobody else in the area can do what I can.

You shouldn't be mad about that though, it took a lot of money for me to get the education and the certificates that I have to be able to be in the position I am, you're not going to get cheap or free work out of me when I've already paid my dues.

As far as your mom and pop bit, they pass on the savings to you because they have much lower overhead, however, unless we're talking back woods repair like Sauto over here, most mom and pops won't let you bring in your part and if they do, they'll be charging every bit of the hours they see fit to make up for it.

Also, that discount you think you can get at a better price isn't true, whatever you get something at, I promise you I'll get it cheaper, the difference is will I sell you that part at cost? No, not a chance in the world. Not unless we were family.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by KC native

**** that. He runs a stealership service shop.

Just in case any one is wondering, stealerships make more money off of their service shops than they do selling cars.

Well no shit sherlock, how do you think companies are able to produce a car at a loss, and not run deeply into the red? Service.

You don't buy a car thinking you'll never have to fix it, and if you do, you are incredibly naive.

And no, I do not run a stealership service shop....

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

Lol he's telling people how a businesses is run BUT it's not how he ran his.
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Because I'm letting them know how the industry works you ****ing moron. I know how it works, I've been in it all my life.

I realize that since you lack the brainpower to innovate that you might not understand this, but when I started my first job, what I wanted to achieve was a happy median between efficiency and swiftness, without ever sacrificing the quality of our work, or the cost to the customer.

If I were to ask you how to do that, you'd probably think about it for the next 5 years, google it, forget about it, and that's that.

So of course I'm going to tell you how the industry is ran, and sometimes tell you where my business will differ. I'm not going to give you all the secrets to my success, but I'll surely tell you where most business practices are ancient or wrong.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

I've worked at a number of stealerships, I've owned two mom and pops, and again work at a stealership.

That being said, one is not always like the other.

I know I'm not ever going to change your opinion on the matter, but understand something for me real quick. Mechanics only look at what they are told to look at. It is up to the service writer to direct them to the issue. It is up to you, to direct the service writer on what the issue is, so he can pass it on to the mechanic.

You can't blame the mechanic, sometimes it is the service writer at fault, and a lot of times, the majority of the case ends up being the Customers fault for not being direct and specific with the service writer.

If you walk in and toss the keys to the service writer and say "There's something wrong with it, it drives funny", you're literally telling the service writer to **** off and the Mechanic is going to be in for a very long day of trying to figure out your incompetence.

That being said, I am not a greasemonkey, I'm not going to work on your mothers prius when she comes in, unless it has electrical problems or requires serious diagnostic work. That is my job, that is my forte. I'm the monkey in the back with the degrees and certificates in a specialized field who you get to pay an arm and a leg to because nobody else in the area can do what I can.

You shouldn't be mad about that though, it took a lot of money for me to get the education and the certificates that I have to be able to be in the position I am, you're not going to get cheap or free work out of me when I've already paid my dues.

As far as your mom and pop bit, they pass on the savings to you because they have much lower overhead, however, unless we're talking back woods repair like Sauto over here, most mom and pops won't let you bring in your part and if they do, they'll be charging every bit of the hours they see fit to make up for it.

Also, that discount you think you can get at a better price isn't true, whatever you get something at, I promise you I'll get it cheaper, the difference is will I sell you that part at cost? No, not a chance in the world. Not unless we were family.

Get ****ed. I explained to them very clearly which wheel was pulling off and that the camber of the rear wheels was the issue.

I spoke to my service writer several times. I spoke with the service manager. I was very explicit as to where the problem was coming from. The car was there 4 times within 6 months. The lackey at NTB had it on the lift (I don't own one) and showed me within 10 minutes what was bent.

You are ****ing full of yourself. You were completely wrong on the Speed 3's fuel pump issue. I questioned myself and then went back and read. It's a cam driven fuel pump and with the stock internals it starves the motor if you start adding horsepower.

You work on cars. It's not ****ing rocket science. Your ASE certifications mean jack shit. I know plenty of mechanics without certifications that I would pay to work on my car before your stealership ASE lackeys.

Also, I can get domestic car parts at dealership cost from buddies that are in car clubs. They have family members that work in the parts departments. So, again, you're not nearly as special as you think.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves.

right here you say you have lower labor rates and you don't scale the labor hours as much as a dealer.


Buy you do scale them.

so you get people in the door with a low labor rate then hike up the hours (scaling you call it) to make up the difference.


But since you don't see the "scaled hours" every time , it's in the computer program which you set initially, it's not there.


All of that is in more posts of yours throughout this thread.
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