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Old 09-04-2005, 11:10 AM  
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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Please Explain Something About the Poor Initial Response In New Orleans...

How was it Bush's fault?

I know many on the left want to tie Bush to the disaster in New Orleans as well as the initial response to the lawlessness and rescue efforts. But isn't it a fact that Governor Blanco had a very short window before things got really bad to federalize the situation and did not? Didn't local authorities need to request federal action to assist in the evacuation? Didn't that request come after the city's infrastructure was decimated? Wasn't it Mayor Ray Nagin's decision not to stop looting in favor of rescue efforts (thereby adding a completely different problem to the equation)? Why do liberals blame Bush for not unilaterally declaring federal marshall law when I've read countless times over the past couple years from countless DU dorks that Bush should be stopped from exercising some ominous design to instill marshall law?

The New Orleans government? Please. I spoke with a friend who was with Mayor Nagin the day before the storm hit. You'd flip if you heard what he was doing instead of getting the citizens of New Orleans out of harm's way.
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Old 09-04-2005, 11:46 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
How was it Bush's fault?
it's not his fault

last i checked he doesn't control the weather

he didn't build new orleans

he didn't setup that cheap @ss levy system


BUT....


as President of the United States he does accept the responsibility.

he appointed the (apparent) dumb@ss to head FEMA

he didn't have someone make sure that a suitable response was in the works when everyone knew that a cat 4/5 hurricane was gonna hit that general area.

he's the leader .. he appoints and oversees the whole government


fair or not ... the President accepts responsibility, in many ways, FOR the United States when he swears in.
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Old 09-04-2005, 11:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

The New Orleans government? Please. I spoke with a friend who was with Mayor Nagin the day before the storm hit. You'd flip if you heard what he was doing instead of getting the citizens of New Orleans out of harm's way.
Ok, make me flip.
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Old 09-04-2005, 12:42 PM   #4
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There is no way to stop the initial lawlessness in that situation. Most of the guardsmen called upon had to first get their families out of there, then immediately report to duty.

Keep in mind that the people at the Superdome lost their minds after the first day. Flood waters were still rising, there were people that needed to be saved, and to top it off, rescuers were being shot at.

I'd say at this point if there is anyone to blame, it's the LA government and FEMA for not having a worse case scenario planned out. Iíd also blame those with the means to evacuate but didnít. The killers, rapists and thieves are also to blame.

It amazes me when people, left or right, hold the POTUS responsible for something that had little or nothing to do with him, yet give the thugs and criminals free passes. Pretty pathetic.
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:16 PM   #5
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On one of the Sunday morning shows someone made the statement that the LA Governor didn't want to issue the mandatory evacuation order of NO and it was the Bush administration that forced the issue.

If that is true, which I can't hardly believe, then even meme would have to conclude it could have been worse.

But it is clear there were breakdowns in every level of government on this one. Local, state, and federal. It's easy to get all worked up and start pointing fingers when there are images of screaming babies with no food or water.

My biggest gripe with the administration is there failure to force NO to have a decent evacuation plan on the shelf ready to implement. IMO FEMA should now look at cities that are of the biggest risk of any/all catastrophy and force them to update their evacuation plans. The government does it in regards to drunken drivers, if a state doesn't conform to federal guidelines their transportation money is cut off. I think this disaster should force the same kind of arrangement.
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:31 PM   #6
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Dog
It amazes me when people, left or right, hold the POTUS responsible for something that had little or nothing to do with him, yet give the thugs and criminals free passes. Pretty pathetic.
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass


they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.


expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared


it's called leadership
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass


they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.


expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared


it's called leadership
I suppose Bush could just hang out in the WH and get knob-jobs from interns. Is that the leadership you are refering to?
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:36 PM   #8
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in hindsight, it would have been great if the president, or someone acting on his behalf, had ordered the military to prepare to help evacuate new orleans as soon as the storm became strong and headed right at new orleans, a major city with a large population...

they could have prepositioned the same military assets that they are (finally) starting to use...

ships could have begun moving to the area, just in case (because the storm would cause a catastrophe in a major city), and would have been there within a day or two of the levee breaking...

no-one but the most rabid anti-bushers would fault him for taking such initiative, even if it "only" turned out to be the expected level of devastion along the ms and al coast

of course, for a president to take such action before the storm had even hit, would have been unprecedented in american history (so far as i know)...

but, maybe next time they'll begin the military response before storms strike a major city...
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
How was it Bush's fault?
It weren't Bush's fault. He did his job just as he was supposed to. Just like when he did when he was told that America is under attack... he just kept reading "My Pet Goat" until one of his handlers told him what to do and what to say. This time, he just kept playin golf and goofing around, playing guitar and cracking jokes as the disaster claimed life after life after life. Eventually, someone told him to put the guitar down, handed him a speech to read, and told him to put on his "serious" face. Here's a picture of him joking and playing as his fellow citizens simultaneously died by the hundreds on Tuesday. Notice how concerned he looks about Americans dying by the truckload as he strums along:

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Old 09-04-2005, 01:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd
On one of the Sunday morning shows someone made the statement that the LA Governor didn't want to issue the mandatory evacuation order of NO and it was the Bush administration that forced the issue.

If that is true, which I can't hardly believe, then even meme would have to conclude it could have been worse.

But it is clear there were breakdowns in every level of government on this one. Local, state, and federal. It's easy to get all worked up and start pointing fingers when there are images of screaming babies with no food or water.

My biggest gripe with the administration is there failure to force NO to have a decent evacuation plan on the shelf ready to implement. IMO FEMA should now look at cities that are of the biggest risk of any/all catastrophy and force them to update their evacuation plans. The government does it in regards to drunken drivers, if a state doesn't conform to federal guidelines their transportation money is cut off. I think this disaster should force the same kind of arrangement.
all good ideas...

i'd add that the new evacuation plans should also require prior arrangements to utilize all available public transportation (including school busses and commercial busses) to evacuate those who cannot do so on their own...

and to stock emergency supplies in likely shelters, particularly very large places like the dome and the convention center...

ain't hindsight wonderful?
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass


they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.


expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared


it's called leadership
I agree with this. Mobilizing the guard was a no-brainer but it still wouldn't made much of difference. Not one expert was on TV the week before the storm warning that something of this magnitude could happen. Plus the guardsmen had families to evacuate themselves first. Furthermore, you can't just send rescuers into harms way without first evaluating situation. It takes time to set a plan in motion. (if LA had one)

I think instead of idiots like Dumbneez alway's looking for someone to blame, we should be learning from the mistakes. Pointing fingers now, certainly isn't helping anyone in LA.

I also wonder how many thousands could have avoided death or a few day's without food and water if they had evacuated like they were told.
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:47 PM   #12
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bo
in hindsight, it would have been great if the president, or someone acting on his behalf, had ordered the military to prepare to help evacuate new orleans as soon as the storm became strong and headed right at new orleans, a major city with a large population...

they could have prepositioned the same military assets that they are (finally) starting to use...

ships could have begun moving to the area, just in case (because the storm would cause a catastrophe in a major city), and would have been there within a day or two of the levee breaking...

no-one but the most rabid anti-bushers would fault him for taking such initiative, even if it "only" turned out to be the expected level of devastation along the ms and al coast

of course, for a president to take such action before the storm had even hit, would have been unprecedented in american history (so far as i know)...

but, maybe next time they'll begin the military response before storms strike a major city...
that's true except if you take a few things into consideration

1. the strength of the storm. (cat 4/5 is exceptional)

2. the circumstance of New Orleans in general ... it was widely known that a strong hurricane would be a catastrophe for that particular city.

3. the hurricane was known to be cat 5 ... it didn't surprise anyone

4. as soon as it turned north we knew it was going to destroy something, someplace. Mobilization and getting emergency procedures would of helped wherever it hit.
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:48 PM   #13
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:51 PM   #14
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefDave
I suppose Bush could just hang out in the WH and get knob-jobs from interns. Is that the leadership you are refering to?
yea... that's eggzactly what i'm talking about, BCD



now go back to your finger painting
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Dog
Who let UD out from under his rock?
I think he was moved to minimum security and all those on his wing are on work release. j/k
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