Gore's Contract Against America. ( For Clint ).

[Baby Lee]

KCTitus - was that Brownies, or Brown-eyes?

[Mark M]

BD--
I don't remember the scout law as being:

A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent, and not gay.

Could be me. As far as telling others what to think, I am totally, 100% against it.

But isn't that what the right-wingers who put the stuff on that site are trying to do? These are the same people who want the 10 commandments (a CHRISTIAN idea) in PUBLIC schools. Here's the deal: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

And as I stated before, I'm not for the gov't forcing the scouts to allow gay leaders. My fraternity thought about allowing women as members, and that got voted down. I'd hate for the gov't to tell me we have to let them in for more than just parties.

I just don't like for hate and ignorance to dictate policy. Logic only. And the scouts have shown some, as has the other side. It's for the parents to decide, IMO. If you don't mind, fine. If you do, ask every leader your son will come in contact with if they're gay. If so, then walk away.

MM
--Shouldn't have started.

[Clint in Wichita]

I think that we've ALL had at least one gay teacher, coach, etc. in our lifetimes and not even known it.

Gays have probably been troop leaders since the inception of the organization.

A "don't ask, don't tell" policy seems more appropriate to me.

[KCTitus]

Mark: it interests me that you pointed out the 10 commandments is a Christian idea.

Is that stating that other religions believe it right and good to kill, steal, lie, etc?

[Mark M]

BD--
I agree that any group has the right to have memebers, make rules and omit anyone they feel doesn't fit into their ideal.
The KKK has done it for years.

The only way we can know love and understanding is to know hate and ignorance. The latter serve as an example so that the former can thrive.

MM
--I should copyright that last paragraph.

[Clint in Wichita]

If public schools want to teach kids not to steal, kill, etc. then fine.

Call it "Understanding Morals" and don't mention God, Jesus, or quote the Bible at all.

How's that for a compromise?

[Mark M]

Titus--
Yes and no. Buddhism is definitely against all of those things, yet I beleive the Islamic saying is "an eye for an eye." Christians supposedly believe in these things yet killed thousands during the crusade.

My point was not whether the commandments are good or bad (I would say good) but whether one religion's ideals should supercede all others. Also, the separation of church and state comes into play, but that's another discussion.

As far as schools teaching morals, shouldn't that be the parent's job?

MM
--Likes the ten commandments...although I covet my neighbors Corvette (it's better than his wife).



[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 11-28-2000).]

[BIG_DADDY]

Mark,
I believe that the scouts have been quite clear on their position regarding this topic. Once again, any group should be able to congregate under a common belief system without govermental interference. I should be able to raise my child under my belief system as well. Once you let the goverment take control of the raising of your children you are starting down the wrong path. The school issue a completely different thing. If schools were privatized, we wouldn't have these issues. You would be able to send your children to a school that shares your values.

[Clint in Wichita]

BD

In your opinion, how many teenage girls have had lesbian P.E. teachers in high school?

[Clint in Wichita]

If schools were privatized, your kid would learn what Bill Gates wants your kid to learn.

Or Dow Chemical.

Or Anheiser-Busch.

Privatizing schools might be the worst idea if ever heard.

[KCTitus]

Mark: Christians violating these commandments arent hypocrites, they are sinners as we all are.

Wrongs done in the name of religion are no worse than wrongs done in the name or political correctness or any other 'cause'.

[Clint in Wichita]

Imagine your grade-schooler being laid off because his/her school wasn't creating enough profit to satisfy stockholders!!

A school with a goal of making as much profit as possible, rather than educating children, is as offensive as it gets.

[BIG_DADDY]

Clint,
My kid would learn what I wanted him to learn. It would be up to parents to filter the system their children would be learning from. If you don't like what your child is being taught then you can switch schools and give your money to the sytem that is teaching what you value. I knoow this is a hard concept for you but get the goverment out of our lifes and let people make their own decisions. In 5 min. every day I could filter what my child is being taught.

[KCTitus]

Clint: Most universities and colleges are privitized. Are they shills for corporate america? No. If anything, they are the last bastions of liberalism.

You might want to re-think your assertions.

[BIG_DADDY]

Clint,
As long as there is money to be made there will be schools for your children to go to. Come on Clint.

[Clint in Wichita]

Many universities ARE privately owned. They are also much too expensive. Next to medical care, education costs are the most out-of-control in the nation. There is also ZERO advantage to private schools except prestige.

[Clint in Wichita]

Privatizing all schools is a stupid idea. I hope it never occurs.

[Mark M]

Titus--
Beautifully put.

Clint--
#258: There are straigt ones?
#259: Beautifully put.

BD--
You CAN send your kids to a school that holds your beleifs. They are called private schools. That is, unless your an agnostic/atheist like my wife and I are. We have already decided that if we have kids they will be home schooled. We will teach them religion, but from a historical aspect rather than a mystical, this-is-the-way-it-is-because-that 's-what the-book-says aspect.

Public schools have to ignore religion, rather than teach students the entire (if any) story. I would like for my child to make up his/her own mind rather than be taught/conditioned to believe something just because I do. And I don't trust public schools to educate my kid in other areas as well.

MM
--Principal and teacher.

[bkkcoh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>
A school with a goal of making as much profit as possible, rather than educating children, is as offensive as it gets
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree, I think it is more offensive to spend 4 or 5 thousand dollars on a child's education in elementary or secondary school and the child not being able to read at a level they should be able. What is sad is people don't have any real way of correcting what is wrong with the schools.



------------------
Brian K.

The future is much like the present, only longer.

[i]Don Quisenberry </I>

[BIG_DADDY]

Mark,
You just said that you don't trust public schools, need I say anymore. A voucher system would allow you to teach your children the way see fit. What is wrong with that?.

[KCTitus]

Clint: Yes, they are expensive, but you dont see people not applying to get into them do you?

People are willing to pay, alot, for a good education.

Dont sit there and tell me a Harvard Degree is the same as Longview Community College Degree.

If you think that higher education is expensive, it's nothing compared to the price of ignorance.

[Mark M]

BD--
I never said a voucher program wouldn't work.

However, I will now. By partitioning off education to schools/thoughts/beleifs that are so narrowly focused, you create a fractured system. (Much like peoples 'arguments against more than two political parties—too much division). You create haves and have nots. You create a huge bussing problem (I leave for work at 6 am. my wife at 6:30. Is our kid going to walk to school, stay there for 1.5 hours before it opens when we drop him/her off, ride a bus for two hours at a time?). You create divisions within neighborhoods. You create salary problems (what happens if the Christian teachers get paid more than the Jewish who get paid more than the Lutheran who get paid more than the corporate sponsored, etc.). You create a situation where people cannot have the opportunity to deal with people of other thoughts and beliefs. You create a system where one school may be "popular" and get a large number of students while another school is left empty. I could go on and on.

I do not need a voucher to teach my child the way I see fit. I will just teach my child. I will teach them about Chrisitanity and Islam and Hindu and all other religions. I will teach them about capitalism and socialism, about football and baseball, about men and women. I will give them the facts and let them decide, rather than have someone else give them skewed facts and let them make an uninformed decision.

Vouchers won't help the problem, just make the problem change school districts.

Also, if you're concerned with the gov't being in people's lives, why would you support more intrusion?

MM
--Went to Raytown South...does that explain anything?

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 11-28-2000).]

[KCTitus]

MM: So did I...Class of 87

[Mark M]

Titus--
Really? Small freaking world!! Class of '89.

MM
--Wondering if he should share his real name with Titus...but might owe Titus $$.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mark,
With all due respect, I think your wrong. I think there would ton of much smaller schools. If one school was that popular then they probably deserved to be that popular. I really don't think that schools of faith would dominate either. I think that schools that produced more intelligent children would dominate. What a concept.

[KCTitus]

Didnt know many from that class, so you're probably safe. :) Most of my buddies graduated in '86 and a couple in '83.

The most notable thing from our class was on Senior Day, Daniel Jones, attempted to rape or actually did rape one of the teachers. His family actually had the gall to petition the school board to let him walk in our graduation ceremony.

[KCTitus]

Mark: I have to agree with BD, the selling point would be the education that the child received. I can tell you, that right now, Im really disappointed in the elementary education my kids are receiving and we're actually looking into sending them to Catholic schools - we're not catholic - but they have a higher educational standard.

When I was in Kindergarten, we learned to read.

My daughter and son merely did the alphabet and numbers. They both knew this going into school. IMO, that's a wasted year. The reason: The teacher says that they have to start there because most parents dont even teach their kids that so they have to start at the lowest common demoninator.

[Mark M]

BD--
I think you are beginning to sway my opinion. I do see your point. Also, I have a mother-in-law who teaches in KC district. She's manic depressive and rarely takes her meds (says they make her feel funny—I guess normal to her is "funny"). To be honest, I would not want her teaching my kids (nor would my wife). Perhaps with vouchers teachers could be paid better, and, thus, more qualified people would teach and the worthless ones would be fired. Maybe I'm hoping too much.

Maybe vouchers are a good idea. But I still don't see how more gov't involvement will help. The gov't turns to crap everything it touches. Any suggestions?

Titus--
My sister (Jodi) knew the guy. She still swears it couldn't have been him. I had quite a few friends from '87 (David Morales, Stacy Dunlap and a few other band folks, Michelle Weber, Alex Mack [maybe he was '86]. Any of these sound familiar. My last name actually starts with a "D" if that helps.)

MM
--Able to be swayed with the right facts.

[KCTitus]

Mark: I do remember Stacy and David. I dated one of the flag corps girls my senior year, Diane Trapp, so I did know a few of the folks in the band.

I dont know what happened with DJ, but I did actually talk with Jeff Hershmann who actually saw him and chased him out of the school and across 350 before giving up the chase. Jeff and, I think, Brett Bagwell were the two that were chasing him.

In any event, it was definately a downer.

[Mark M]

Titus--
Definitely. I beleive the guy was sent to jail.

You haven't heard from anyone from the old school, have you? The last person I talked to was Denny (after the car wreck) a number of years ago. The guy was still hilarious even though he could barely talk. It's a shame how much bad luck your class had. My class just got pregnant. :D

MM
--Turning this into a Titus and Mark thread...sorry.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mark,
I think that by implementing the voucher system you are getting the goverment about as far out of the system as you are going to get them. The key is not letting the goverment get involved in what are approved schools. As long as you have the credentials to teach, you can have a school and teach what you want. I would preffer a heavy emphasis on math for an example. The colleges could easily have entrance exams to qualify students for college. If they had say 50 or so random exams it would be easy to qualify the students. I do not have all the answers to this system. I just know that if the goverment stays in control of our schooling systems are kids are going to be the ones that pay the price.

BIG DADDY
Remembers some of the losers he had for teachers.

[Mark M]

BD--
I don't think anyone has the answer. The disaster that is the KC School District is a great example of how the gov't ruined a complete educational system. I just hope (for the children of KC) that some resolution is found, whether is be vouchers, an emphasis on home schooling or corp. sponsorship (but only if multiple corporations give money to the same school, otherwise Clint's #259 post WILL come true).

MM
--Agrees something needs to be done.

[KCTitus]

Mark: not much since I left KC. I did register on classmates.com and have made a few contacts with some of my closest friends, we email each other occasionally.

We did have a couple of other 'famous' people from class. One in particular, Darren Alexander, killed the police dog that was used in the movie K-9 during a raid on a house he had holed up in and was eventually killed. He was wanted on murder charges.

There was another who stole a car and during the chase killed a cop, but I dont remember his name.

Both made the local news.

[BIG_DADDY]

What ever happened to Cannibal?. I guess he went back to his commune. I have some unfinished business with that guy.

[Mark M]

Titus--
Fine examples of Raytown Public School District No. 2. How in the HELL did we make it out okay (or at least, in the legal sense?)

I can't think of anyone like that from '89...although I didn't stay in touch a whole lot. Like I said, most of us were too busy in the maternity ward. '89 was the most fertile class ever!

MM
--Went to Ray-South but can count...1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 10. See?

[Mark M]

Big Daddy--
You aren't the same BD that posted all of the threads on the Star site, are you?

If so, boy did you cause a fuss. Pretty funny, actually.

MM
--Curious . . .

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Mi_chief_fan]

BD,
Been away for awhile, but let me respond to #219.
1) What does Clinton catering to the Chinese have to do with unfounded spy accusations?
2)Sure he was corrupt, but no more than Bush(S&L bailout),or Reagan(Iran-Contra). That doesn't scare me anymore than Dubya cozying up to the NRA and the religious extremists that would like to legislate their own set of values & beliefs into law.
3) How do I know about base closures? Well, I enlisted in 92, and less than a year bases started closing. Face it, BUSH was the one who began downsizing the military, not Clinton. BUSH was the one that signed the legislation after the Gulf War.

It's one thing to question my intelligence, it's another to call me a liar.

As far as vouchers, I debated with Russ for hours on this, and am more than willing to do the same with you.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mark,
No I am not the Big Daddy on the other bulletin board. I have the same name over there but it is BIG DADDY not Big Daddy. That guy copied my name just to piss me off. He is an idiot.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
Boy are you sensitive today or what. :( I believe you said in the last 10 yrs that Bush had closed more bases than Clinton. Considering that Bush was only in office for 2 of those years and all the bases out here on the west coast were closed under Clinton I didn't think that was an unreasonable to ask you where you got your numbers from. A far cry from calling you a liar.


[This message has been edited by BIG_DADDY (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Clint in Wichita]

IMO, an average kid should have basic reading and writing skills by the time he/she enters kindergarten, if at all possible.

That's one thing I wouldn't leave up to any school.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
My problems with the republican party are:
1. They are pu**ys in general. The Demorats will stoop to any level in order win in any given fight and the republicans just fold. I am embarassed for them.
2. I do not like the religious right trying to control our moral climate in our country.
3.With everything they had on Clintong they couldn't remove him from office.
4. They still spend WAY TOO MUCH money and they will not cut our taxes enough.
5. They started this ridiculous WAR ON DRUGS and have given too much power to our police forces.

BIG DADDY
Just showing that he is not happy with either side. This side is still light years better than the Demorats though.

[This message has been edited by BIG_DADDY (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Masonic]

BD,
And your problem with the Democrats would be?. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[BIG_DADDY]

Masonic,
Come on man, I don't have all night. I have to get out of here but I will return tomorrow to answer that and try to hunt down Cannibal who wants to to amend our constitution into oblivion because we are not living in the 1700s anymore. Give me a break

[Logical]

The SS system is not broke:

Lets see I put in about 9000 a year when you include the unlimited excess for medicaid/care. Have been doing so now for about 12 years and my company must match it. If I work to full retirement age (and the age is not changed my company and I will probably average around 25,000 per year for 20 more years. My contribution and that of my different employers for the 30 years I have worked to date (started working at 15) on the report I received last year indicates we have given up over 450,000 in SS. Now add the 500,000 that will be put in by the time I retire and we are talking around a million dollars. Do you think that if SS survives I will get back anywhere near the million dollars plus the interest I would have earned. No fripping way. First since I will be part of the Baby Boom retirees there is a damned good chance it will be disolved, and if it is not we either bankrupt our children and grandchildren or each retiree gets so little it is of no use. The system is not broke what a joke!

------------------
Jim Reynolds
If I were a Democrat I would surely be a sore loser!

[DanT]

Someone employed by a corporation can only be taxed for Social Security on earnings up to 72,600. Let's see 6.2% of 72,600 is $4501. The Medicare Tax is another 1.45%, which I don't think is capped. So if Jim had to pay another 4,500 just in Medicare Tax (1.45%) to bring his total SS/Medicare payout to 9,000, that means he earned about $4,500 times the inverse of 1.45% last year, or about $310,000.

Jim, I hope you realize that if you don't like the way that America's relatively mild redistributionist social welfare system is set up, that you could have opted to help some other country build their military's missiles. I mean, man, you sure did get shafted by the USA. You don't have to take it, you know! ;)

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 11-29-2000).]

[BIG_DADDY]

Logical,
That is what happens when you trust the goverment with anything. That is why I am for privatizing everything that we can.
Masonic,
I am only going to list my biggest problems with Demorats as I would be here all day otherwise.
1. Constantly want to expand the size and power of our goverment.
2. Constantly want to raise my taxes in order to achieve that.
3. Destroying our constitution rights and freedoms.
4. Bill Clintong & Al Sore
5. Many demorats will also say anything to defend their candidates such as " but he could never get that through congress " completely ignoring what their candidate stands for. I guess they get that from their role models who will do anything to win.
BIG DADDY
Tired of being angry. But everytime I look at Sore it makes me want to puke. :mad:<P>

[Logical]

DanT,

I assume you are Daniel Tancredi is that true? The reason I ask is I have alway found you reasonable if that is who you are. How much I make is not the issue, the poor return on my SS investment is the issue vs. what I could do with the money myself. To say the system is not broke is ludricous was my point. I have stated that I am willing to let them continue to have half so those retirees and those soon to retire will be protected, just let me have the other half to use investing towards my retirement, heck if they want it to be accounted for with some simple statement of investment (nothing as cumbersome as our tax system) I would even be happy to comply. I guess I am surprised at your ridicule. I recognize the statement about supporting the military as a reaction to my earlier statement saying I would like 60% of our taxes to go to supporting our military, fine but that is taxes not SS.

Just curious?

[DanT]

Hey Logical,

I am Daniel Tancredi. I'm sincerely sorry if my post sounded like ridicule. I didn't mean it to.

I was trying to point out that anyone who makes so much money that they are paying $9,000 into Social Security and Medicare shouldn't be surprised if the redistributionist system for insuring workers against disability and providing supplemental income for retirees doesn't represent "a good return" on their investment. Any worker who "wins big" in this economy might feel that way, but I think that misses some important considerations--the main one being that the government's two most popular roles in this society are to provide a defense system and to administer the kind of worker-insurance programs that exist in every industrialized society to protect workers who mightn't "win big".

I think that there are always ways to improve how our government does things and where it gets its money but, based on how other industrialized nations govern themselves, I sincerely doubt that any politicians would be able to make dramatic changes in the so-called safety net without having to also make dramatic changes in the rest of its budget, especially defense spending.

By the way, I don't consider Bush's proposal for letting workers invest a portion of their Social Security contribution to be a dramatic change. I'd be interested in giving it a shot. I think he was talking about 2% or so out of the 6.2%. Hell, I'm socking away a lot more than that in my own retirement accounts (you and I both are saving more than we pay in Social Security, and I'd hope that most workers are doing so soon).

Best regards,
Dan

[Mi_chief_fan]

BD,
Yes, the bases on the west coast did close under the Clinton Administration, that much of your arguement is true.

What you fail to understand is that BUSH SIGNED THE PAPAERWORK TO CLOSE THEM DOWN WHILE HE WAS IN OFFICE!!!!!

Now that we've made that clear, i'm sorry if I came across as defensive. But bases don't just close overnight; it takes years of planning, just like a power plant. Blaming Clinton for something that was started before he was in office is just not right.

There are plenty of other things to blame him for.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
I did not know that. See, you learn something new everyday. I think I blamed him for plenty of other things in that post. :) As I recall I wasn't exactly persecuting him for being responsible for closeing them. I think it was more like a " as I recall " pertaining to the timeing of the closeures to the best of my memory. I believe you.

[Baby Lee]

#300 - woohoo!!!!

JC-Johnny, easily amused.

[Mi_chief_fan]

I only know because I enlisted in September 92, bases started closing less than a year after.

BTW, I also have problems with the dems:
1) Gun control. We have too many laws on the books already, and they're not all being enforced.
2) The estate tax. Why tax something twice? This hurts many small business owners, as well as farmers.
3) Affirmative Action. It served it's purpose well, but like many laws, it's outdated and no longer needed.

But I also have a list for republicans:
1) Education. I heard a GOP congressman from Florida once say "If everyone had a Phd, who would sweep our streets?" Please. He reinforces the republican view that MONEY gives you the right to higher education, not hard work & intelligence(see the president elect).
2) Union bashing. I'm a union man myself. I work hard, along with other union workers, yet because some of our leaders are corrupt, we're all viewed as being lazy and havin unfair job security. It beats the alternative.
cont.....

[WisChief]

Michigan,

Please do not take this offensively, but what purpose do unions serve in today's business environment?

I did work in a paper makers union for a couple of years and now I sell paper and I never did figure out why I paid dues.

Honestly looking for a legitimate answer http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Mi_chief_fan]

3) Legislating "Morals". WTF! what you deem to be moral may be offensive to me! I believe in freedom of speech AND religion. I don't need or want right wing extremist defining what is or isn't acceptable moral behavior. That's how prohibition came about.
4) Prayer in school. How can you force kids of different religions & beliefs pray together? Jews & Muslims? Catholic & Protestant? Pray at home, stop wasting taxpayers money fighting it in court.
5) Abortion. A smoke screen to hide from real issues, if you ask me. You right wing extremists say that these women are "murderers", (the LAW does not). Yet, if many of these women go ahead and have their kids, they immediately go on welfare to support them, and people like you chastise them for "living off of my tax dollars."

Here's a wake-up call:YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!! You can't be for welfare reform and against abortion. Therefore, you have to decide which most affects you. I don't think i've ever met someone that;s had an abortion. I'm sure it was a hard decision to make.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
I have a freind in the union and he works his *** off. I don't know how he would compare to most but he really works. I also listed most of the problems that I have with the republicans in post #290. I have had some fun with this post but it always seems like I end up getting into it with the demorats. I actually enjoyed engaging Clint and other left wingers as some of them were really trying to understand what I was saying while trying to make their point. I do have more of a problem with the profilers though that will say anything to support the demorats no matter how outrageous it is.(Cannibal) What is your position on gun control?. Too many laws. Not enough. Have plenty, we just need to enforce them?. I am surprised more people didn't want to address this issue along with our constitution.

[Mi_chief_fan]

WisChief,
I would like nothing better than to see the need for unions go away; I can only speak of my letter carriers union, that they have done a great job of protecting employees from harassment.

One in particular: We actually had a supervisor slap a carrier on the head. Now, the funny thing is, the superrvisor wasn't disciplined at all, she was transferred.

We had a postmaster who hated blacks, particularly because his daughter was dating one. He used this hatred to torment a fellow carrier of mine (who was an exceptional worker), but he was found guilty of discrimination, and forced into early retirement.

So you see, as long as there is bigotry, we'll need unions.

[Mi_chief_fan]

BD,
I would say there are probably too many gun control laws on the books, and many are simply not being enforced. I'm against ANY for of gun control for law abiding citizens.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
They don't need unions for that. Any of them could have sued and do all the time. I few years ago I ran health clubs and I can assure you that they sue all the time. It got so bad that after Anita Hill I wouldn't even address a woman without having another one in the same room. It was that bad. They didn't need a witness to prove their claims. I needed a witness to prove my innocence.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Cannibal seems to be a bit more militant than I, (so do you, BTW), but in the end, we seem to see eye to eye on alot of subjects, as do me & Clint. I try not to be offensive or pushy.

Let me know if I cross the line.

[Mi_chief_fan]

BD,
Most people are unaware of their rights, and too embarassed to do anything about it.

Our union also did a great job in contract negotiations, when, after 4 years of record profits, the postal service said they couldn't afford to give us raises, and even brought in their own economist to say we should be paid the same as pizza delivery drivers.

Many postal execs get 6 figure bonuses, BTW. Down right insulting, considerring people like me do all of the work.

[WisChief]

I have my thoughts and ideas where unions are and what they have and have not done, but they are not fully developed, thus my question. I must say that I don't think they are needed except for the worker that wants a free ride. I will leave it at that at this point and thank you for your thoughts http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Mi_chief_fan]

I understandyour position Wis. I have seen a # of people using them to get a free ride, but honestly, it's not the UNION protecting many of them.

It's the ACLU & NAACP.

I'll leave it at that.

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
I am really not concerned about being politically correct. I think that is why I come across hard. I don't sit out there calling people names all day either though like the cannibal. Look at the early posts on this thread. I also try not to be blind to the facts to prove my point. I think that is why I don't have problems with people like you and Clint. The other reason I think I come across "militant" as you put it was I posted something very controversial stateing that I only agreed with part of it and was immediately condemned for supporting all of it. The guy that actually wrote that is on one of the radio stations out here all the time and he IS an idiot. However I do agree with what he says on some things sometimes.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Understood, BD. I never accused you of supporting everything he said. We just happened to clash on some of the topics.

When I said "Militant", I meant it that you seemed highly, borderline excessively passionate about your stance. Some people might take that as a compliment. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

[BIG_DADDY]

Mi,
Yea, I know, I get a little fired up sometimes. It just kills me when someone thinks that the answer to all of our problems is expanding the power of the goverment and starting another social program.

BIG DADDY
You haven't seen anything yet. Wait till we get some clown on here who wants to disarm society.