Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?

[Reerun_KC]

That's what people said LAST year.

Yep and still no where to go... The bottom is the bottom....

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, that's just because we'd all built up two decades of hate for CP and 3 years of hate for Herm.

Who's this "we" you speak of, Kimosabe?

I actually wanted Herm to return, not for his coaching, but for his drafting and vision of the franchise.

I guarantee you that had that happened, this team would be MUCH further along in terms of talent on the roster and player development.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think you could add Al Davis in there as well.......

Dan Snyder? R u Serious?

I mentioned Snyder because he has no problem with firing incompetent coaches.

[Pablo]

Who's this "we" you speak of, Kimosabe?

I actually wanted Herm to return, not for his coaching, but for his drafting and vision of the franchise.

I guarantee you that had that happened, this team would be MUCH further along in terms of talent on the roster and player development.The "we" is the general collective of Chiefs fans and CP.

I lobbied for Herm for a long time. Hell, when I first came to the board I was probably a Herm-Lover by CP definition. But, there weren't many folks who were too sad about his leaving.

And yeah, if Herm had stuck around and ran a 4-3 with his players and had another good draft, we'd be better off.

But I guarantee he'd still draw the ire of the masses just as much as Haley has; if not moreso.

[Reerun_KC]

I mentioned Snyder because he has no problem with firing incompetent coaches.

Are you watching this game tonight?

Zorn is completely retarded and has been all year...

but then again, Snyder fired Marty, so your point is proven....

[Reerun_KC]

Who's this "we" you speak of, Kimosabe?

I actually wanted Herm to return, not for his coaching, but for his drafting and vision of the franchise.

I guarantee you that had that happened, this team would be MUCH further along in terms of talent on the roster and player development.

That made me giggle...

You a funny man...

[DaneMcCloud]

That made me giggle...

You a funny man...

The only talent on this roster was drafted while Herm was coach.

Pioli WASTED 8 picks (two for O'Connell).

Why you aren't pissed about this is beyond me.

[Brock]

Are you watching this game tonight?

Zorn is completely retarded and has been all year...

but then again, Snyder fired Marty, so your point is proven....

And Zorn is a dead man walking.

[Chaunceythe3rd]

Whitlock did have a good point. Who would want to come to KC as an assistant coach unless he was essentially unemployable anywhere else (Clancy Pendergast) or he knew he was in line to replace Haley? Do we really want Charlie Weiss or Romeo Cremel as assistants or as HC?

[SPATCH]

I mentioned Snyder because he has no problem with firing incompetent coaches.

and things have been going absolutely swimmingly with that organization

[Reerun_KC]

The only talent on this roster was drafted while Herm was coach.

Pioli WASTED 8 picks (two for O'Connell).

Why you aren't pissed about this is beyond me.

Dude we have sucked for the last 4 years... I have given up...

Besides you cant possibly be as pissed as I was the day that Herm was hired....

[Easy 6]

I believe once he gets an OC to take care of that side of the ball, he won't be so stressed and retarded on the sidelines and probably make better decisions in general.

He's over-worked. And he did it to himself.

So, yeah; I'm willing to give him more than one season where he basically decided he was going to run the entire ****ing show and failed at it. If Haley insists on the HC/OC role again next year, he's a tard. If he doesn't lobby for an almost completely new coaching staff, including a DC and a QB coach, he's a tard.

But, I'm patient like that. I didn't expect great things this year. But I also didn't expect Gailey to get canned and for us to bring in Pendergast either. If the epic ****-up's continue next year, goodbye. But, I'm not for pulling the plug on a brand new regime right now, especially a first time HC.

No doubt, he's been an epic fail this year. But I guess there's nowhere to go but WAY up.

Amen PRB... :thumb:

My biggest caveat for Haley is to show some NFL caliber class, raw emotion alone wont get it done, Todd or is it Gunther?... giving THE FINGER to a Season Ticket Fan, or any other fan, on (L.O.L) Fan Appreciation Day is BAAAAAAD... he owes blowfish private golf lessons or something.

[Reerun_KC]

And Zorn is a dead man walking.

And so is Tom Cable...

[SPATCH]

The only talent on this roster was drafted while Herm was coach.

Pioli WASTED 8 picks (two for O'Connell).

Why you aren't pissed about this is beyond me.

Ryan motha fuckin Succop

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The decision about his staff should not be Haley's decision at this point.

Actually, if we take the word of our Minister of Information at face-value, all coaching/coord personnel decisions ARE IN FACT at the ultimate discretion of one Todd Haley.
But, our comptroller at OAD-CIA is a slippery fish, and could be embellishing the truth of the matter.

You fired him on your Madden franchise admit it.
ROFL

Ryan motha fuckin Succop

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

HELLZ YEAH BOYEEEEE! Gimmie 'dat Long-Snapper at 5th Overall, I wants me some Kicking DOMINATION, BEEYATCH!

[KCTitus]

You know what this franchise needs? To fall into the next great QB in the history of the game in the 6th round. Then the 'culture of winning' starts to blossom.

That or start video taping the other teams defensive signals.

Jason has a point, and I cannot disagree.

This team has not improved in any phase of the game the entire year. That's quite an accomplishment considering how bad this team was last year.

Only thing I can say is we're not Washington.

[SPATCH]

HELLZ YEAH BOYEEEEE! Gimmie 'dat Long-Snapper at 5th Overall, I wants me some Kicking DOMINATION, BEEYATCH!

the best motha fuckin kicking game in the N.F. motha fuckin L.

40 yards, 50 yards, SIIIIIIIIIIXXXXTY yards son! the kicking game be sewed up.

3 points bitch. 3.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

the best motha fuckin kicking game in the N.F. motha fuckin L.

40 yards, 50 yards, SIIIIIIIIIIXXXXTY yards son! the kicking game be sewed up.

3 points bitch. 3.

ROFL TRIFECTA OF DA' FOOT, BOYEEEE!

[DaneMcCloud]

and things have been going absolutely swimmingly with that organization

Way to deflect the point.

Were you hired to be a ballwasher or do you do it willingly?

[DaneMcCloud]

Ryan motha fuckin Succop

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Whatever.

The Chiefs would have been in the same exact position if they'd kept Connor Barth.

[DaneMcCloud]

You know what this franchise needs? To fall into the next great QB in the history of the game in the 6th round. Then the 'culture of winning' starts to blossom.

That or start video taping the other teams defensive signals.

Jason has a point, and I cannot disagree.

This team has not improved in any phase of the game the entire year. That's quite an accomplishment considering how bad this team was last year.

Only thing I can say is we're not Washington.

Washington will turn it around much more quickly than the Chiefs.

Bank it.

[DeezNutz]

Actually, if we take the word of our Minister of Information at face-value, all coaching/coord personnel decisions ARE IN FACT at the ultimate discretion of one Todd Haley.


Thus my statement that control should not be in his hands at this point.

The GM must step in and save the HC from himself, assuming Haley isn't fired (as he should be).

[Reerun_KC]

Thus my statement that control should not be in his hands at this point.

The GM must step in and save the HC from himself, assuming Haley isn't fired (as he should be).

Who you replacing Haley with?

[Skip Towne]

Who you replacing Haley with?

Marty

[DeezNutz]

Who you replacing Haley with?

If I'm Pioli, I try my hardest to convince Clark to back up the Brinks truck for Cowher, just as he did for me.

But with this much time to survey the landscape, the Executive of the Century should be able to identify a more qualified candidate than Haley, don't you think?

After all, everything was rushed before. Haley wasn't really his guy, so this season was simply an evaluation year. It didn't really count. Everyone knows this.

Were you people expecting playoffs?

[SPATCH]

Way to deflect the point.

Were you hired to be a ballwasher or do you do it willingly?

Your point was that he fires "incompetent" coaches, correct?

Beside the obvious refute, that he is the one who keeps hiring these dumbasses (therefore making him incompetent)... there is the logical conclusion that frivolous hiring and firing of coaches does not translate into success: exhibit A - the Washington Redskins.

We don't want a Dan Snyder and you are completely disenfranchised for thinking it... and defaming Lamar Hunt like you did earlier is ****ed up. You're mental, seriously. You're not thinking coherently.

[SPATCH]

Were you people expecting playoffs?

we're not the ones overreacting to the season...

what's your point? I don't follow.

[notorious]

ROFL at Snyder getting rid of Marty when they were beginning to turn the corner.

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL at Snyder getting rid of Marty when they were beginning to turn the corner.

ROFL @ SD for getting rid of Marty when he couldnt win in the playoffs... Then replacing him with Norv Turner....

Talk about your all time fail...

[DeezNutz]

we're not the ones overreacting to the season...

what's your point? I don't follow.

Poking fun at the intellectual dishonesty inherent in the rebuttals offered to those who have been critical of the current regime.

[Skip Towne]

ROFL at Snyder getting rid of Marty when they were beginning to turn the corner.

So why would Shanahan want to go there? He wants total control.

[Brock]

So why would Shanahan want to go there? He wants total control.

He'd probably get it.

[notorious]

ROFL @ SD for getting rid of Marty when he couldnt win in the playoffs... Then replacing him with Norv Turner....

Talk about your all time fail...

Ya, that really did nose-dive on them :)

Marty built Turner a hell of a team.

[Brock]

ROFL @ AJ Smith for getting rid of Marty for pulling a Marty in the playoffs, then replacing him with Norv Turner...

Talk about your all time fails...

Might not be so funny this year.

[Reerun_KC]

If I'm Pioli, I try my hardest to convince Clark to back up the Brinks truck for Cowher, just as he did for me.

But with this much time to survey the landscape, the Executive of the Century should be able to identify a more qualified candidate than Haley, don't you think?

After all, everything was rushed before. Haley wasn't really his guy, so this season was simply an evaluation year. It didn't really count. Everyone knows this.

Were you people expecting playoffs?

Couldnt you go out and get an up and coming coordinator or something... I dont think Cowhers fucked up chin and ego would go together with Pioli....

[Mecca]

The Chargers have a hell of a chance at the bowl, probably shouldn't be laughing to hard.

[Reerun_KC]

Ya, that really did nose-dive on them :)

Marty built Turner a hell of a team.

How long does Marty get credit for Turner's winning where Marty fails?

[Reerun_KC]

The Chargers have a hell of a chance at the bowl, probably shouldn't be laughing to hard.

it was tongue and cheek sarcasm....

[SPATCH]

Poking fun at the intellectual dishonesty inherent in the rebuttals offered to those who have been critical of the current regime.

namely, you

[DeezNutz]

namely, you

lol. Ok. Let's see my intellectual dishonesty.

I mocked the sentiments expressed in several threads on page 1.

Provide evidence for your claim.

[DeezNutz]

Couldnt you go out and get an up and coming coordinator or something... I dont think Cowhers ****ed up chin and ego would go together with Pioli....

Sure, I'm down. My suggestion for Cowher is rooted in the fact that I have little faith in Pioli at this point.

But I'm open to any and all suggestions. What we have now, however, simply isn't good enough.

[notorious]

How long does Marty get credit for Turner's winning where Marty fails?

Marty doesn't get all of the credit, but he does deserve some. Marty proved time and time again he can build a winner, but his moronic coaching in the big ones killed him.

Norv has been doing a pretty good job with SD IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

Your point was that he fires "incompetent" coaches, correct?

Beside the obvious refute, that he is the one who keeps hiring these dumbasses (therefore making him incompetent)... there is the logical conclusion that frivolous hiring and firing of coaches does not translate into success: exhibit A - the Washington Redskins.

We don't want a Dan Snyder and you are completely disenfranchised for thinking it... and defaming Lamar Hunt like you did earlier is ****ed up. You're mental, seriously. You're not thinking coherently.


Ah, Fuck You.

Lamar Hunt was one of THE worst owners the NFL has EVER seen, if not THE worst.

15 years without a fucking PLAYOFF APPEARANCE.

Another 16 years without a PLAYOFF WIN.

THREE PLAYOFF WINS IN 40 YEARS.

You're fucking stupid.

[DaneMcCloud]

ROFL at Snyder getting rid of Marty when they were beginning to turn the corner.

Um, no.

Are you serious?

[SPATCH]

lol. Ok. Let's see my intellectual dishonesty.

I mocked the sentiments expressed in several threads on page 1.

Provide evidence for your claim.

Dude. You said that you want to fire Haley. That means you are the one that had unreal expectations this year.

wtf is wrong with you?

[DaneMcCloud]

ROFL @ SD for getting rid of Marty when he couldnt win in the playoffs... Then replacing him with Norv Turner....

Talk about your all time fail...

Um, no.

Norv took them to the AFC Championship with and barely lost without LT and Rivers on a bum leg.

They'll be there again this season and if they face the Colts, the Bolts are going to the Super Bowl.

Marty's a fucking clown.

[DaneMcCloud]

Ya, that really did nose-dive on them :)

Marty built Turner a hell of a team.

Marty didn't do shit.

[notorious]

An owners love for a team usually doesn't translate into success.

Emotion becomes involved, and when that happens decisions become clouded.

[DaneMcCloud]

Marty doesn't get all of the credit, but he does deserve some. Marty proved time and time again he can build a winner, but his moronic coaching in the big ones killed him.

Norv has been doing a pretty good job with SD IMO.

The only thing Marty has ever proven is that he can win enough games in the regular season to get to the playoffs.

Once he's there, he prompty shits his drawers.

Time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

[Mecca]

Dude. You said that you want to fire Haley. That means you are the one that had unreal expectations this year.

wtf is wrong with you?

So asking a coach to not be a complete idiot is having unreal expectations?

[notorious]

Marty didn't do shit.


Just like in Cleveland and Kansas City?

I am not a Marty supporter, but give credit where it is due.

[notorious]

The only thing Marty has ever proven is that he can win enough games in the regular season to get to the playoffs.

Once he's there, he prompty shits his drawers.

Time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.


So, you agreed with my post that you quoted. Outstanding.

[DaneMcCloud]

An owners love for a team usually doesn't translate into success.

Emotion becomes involved, and when that happens decisions become clouded.

Yeah, that really sucked for Jack Kent Cooke, Art & Dan Rooney, Wellington Mara & Steve Tisch, Art Model, Eddie DeBartolo, Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft.

They all hate their teams.

[DaneMcCloud]

Just like in Cleveland and Kansas City?

I am not a Marty supporter, but give credit where it is due.

What the fuck did he do in Kansas City other than win just enough games to qualify for the playoffs, then promptly shit his pants?

He's Chuck Knox.

[SPATCH]

Ah, **** You.

Lamar Hunt was one of THE worst owners the NFL has EVER seen, if not THE worst.

15 years without a ****ing PLAYOFF APPEARANCE.

Another 16 years without a PLAYOFF WIN.

THREE PLAYOFF WINS IN 40 YEARS.

You're ****ing stupid.

Have a little ****ing respect for a ****ing innovator, a ****ing pioneer, a ****ing icon. Respect what he meant to the NFL and the city of Kansas City.

Lamar Hunt aside... your whole "Dan Snyder" thing makes you certifiably retarded.

[Reerun_KC]

Um, no.

Are you serious?

Sadly, Snyder is going to be nothing better than Al Davis Jr....

I cant see him ever putting together anything of substance up there... Jsut because he is willing to throw money around and make changes without cause... Doesnt mean he will turn into Jerry Jones or any other solid owner...

[DeezNutz]

Dude. You said that you want to fire Haley. That means you are the one that had unreal expectations this year.

wtf is wrong with you?

My expectations for this year: 4-5 wins, but I said that we could have a terrible record, which 4-12 certainly is, and be markedly improved, a much, much stronger club than what we had in '08.

This was my prediction this summer.

After pre-season I throttled back to 3 wins, so I think my expectations were in step.

Should I not have expected progress? Should I have expected and welcomed some of the most incompetent coaching decisions that I've ever seen from a Chiefs HC? Decisions that question his competency on pretty much every level?

I'm to believe he'll "learn" when he's shown a propensity to make asinine decisions all year?

His single worst coaching display was this last Sunday. Game 14. 14.

It's not getting better.

[Mecca]

Lamar Hunt meant something in the 60's in my lifetime I knew him as the owner that would rather make money than win.

[SPATCH]

So asking a coach to not be a complete idiot is having unreal expectations?

don't jump in without reading the thread... he was talking about people having playoff expectations

[DeezNutz]

What the **** did he do in Kansas City other than win just enough games to qualify for the playoffs, then promptly shit his pants?

He's Chuck Knox.

I give him credit for picking this organization off the mat. It's pretty clear that it was Marty, and not Carl, who was responsible for the revival of the franchise.

Dude is one hell of a coach.

Now, come playoff time, it's time to look for option B; he's just not meant to win. Fumbles, fluke plays...story of Marty's life, sadly.

[DaneMcCloud]

Have a little ****ing respect for a ****ing innovator, a ****ing pioneer, a ****ing icon. Respect what he meant to the NFL and the city of Kansas City.

Lamar Hunt aside... your whole "Dan Snyder" thing makes you certifiably retarded.

It makes you a certifiable ass licker.

Lamar Hunt went into the business of football because he was a smart business man. He invested $25,000 dollars and when he died, that investment was worth nearly ONE BILLION DOLLARS, yet his team sucked fucking ass for nearly 40 years.

Go fuck yourself, moron.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Have a little ****ing respect for a ****ing innovator, a ****ing pioneer, a ****ing icon. Respect what he meant to the NFL and the city of Kansas City.

Lamar Hunt aside... your whole "Dan Snyder" thing makes you certifiably retarded.

Oh shit; it's ON now...ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

Sadly, Snyder is going to be nothing better than Al Davis Jr....

I cant see him ever putting together anything of substance up there... Jsut because he is willing to throw money around and make changes without cause... Doesnt mean he will turn into Jerry Jones or any other solid owner...

Well, Snyder FINALLY fired Vinny Cerato and replaced him with Bruce Allen. The same Bruce Allen that helped build the Raiders of the late 90's/early 00's and Super Bowl winning Bucs.

The word on the street is that Shanahan is the next coach. Whether it yields a Super Bowl remains to be seen but I can you one thing is for certain: I'd trade Pioli and Haley in a heartbeat for Shanahan & Allen.

[Brock]

I loved Lamar Hunt, I thought he was a great guy and all that.

But he didn't really give a shit about winning.

[SPATCH]

My expectations for this year: 4-5 wins, but I said that we could have a terrible record, which 4-12 certainly is, and be markedly improved, a much, much stronger club than what we had in '08.

This was my prediction this summer.

After pre-season I throttled back to 3 wins, so I think my expectations were in step.

Should I not have expected progress? Should I have expected and welcomed some of the most incompetent coaching decisions that I've ever seen from a Chiefs HC? Decisions that question his competency on pretty much every level?

I'm to believe he'll "learn" when he's shown a propensity to make asinine decisions all year?

His single worst coaching display was this last Sunday. Game 14. 14.

It's not getting better.

this still doesn't explain how the people who are backing another year for Haley had playoff expectations... jesus, explain yourself

[Skip Towne]

The only thing Marty has ever proven is that he can win enough games in the regular season to get to the playoffs.

Once he's there, he prompty shits his drawers.

Time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

And we've done so much better since he left.

[notorious]

Yeah, that really sucked for Jack Kent Cooke, Art & Dan Rooney, Wellington Mara & Steve Tisch, Art Model, Eddie DeBartolo, Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft.

They all hate their teams.


Whoa Dane, don't lower the booms on me. You are taking something I said and twisting it.

Hate their team? ROFL

In any walk of life whether it is business or personal, letting emotion rule your decisions will cloud judgement.

The owners you listed are the minority, and I will also say that they probably stayed out, or put their emotion to the side when it came to the big decisions on the team.

[DeezNutz]

this still doesn't explain how the people who are backing another year for Haley had playoff expectations... jesus, explain yourself

Jesus doesn't have to answer to anyone.

[DaneMcCloud]

I give him credit for picking this organization off the mat. It's pretty clear that it was Marty, and not Carl, who was responsible for the revival of the franchise.

Dude is one hell of a coach.

Now, come playoff time, it's time to look for option B; he's just not meant to win. Fumbles, fluke plays...story of Marty's life, sadly.

I don't and I'll tell you why: He won with Jim Schaaf and Jack Steadman's players. I think his personnel decisions are horrific and definitely on par with our current "leaders".

Spanos did the right thing in firing Marty. There's no way in hell I'd turn my draft over to him.

Mike Junkin at #5 overall? LMAO

[Reerun_KC]

And we've done so much better since he left.

And he has done just about as much in the playoffs since as well...

So whats the point?

[DaneMcCloud]

And we've done so much better since he left.

That's not the point

[Reerun_KC]

Jesus doesn't have to answer to anyone.

We are we dragging Aaron Curry into this?

[SPATCH]

It makes you a certifiable ass licker.

Lamar Hunt went into the business of football because he was a smart business man. He invested $25,000 dollars and when he died, that investment was worth nearly ONE BILLION DOLLARS, yet his team sucked ****ing ass for nearly 40 years.

Go **** yourself, moron.

I'm more considered about your fucking Dan Snyder bullshit... obviously you're avoiding that shit at all costs because its an un-fucking believable argument for firing Haley

[DeezNutz]

I don't and I'll tell you why: He won with Jim Schaaf and Jack Steadman's players. I think his personnel decisions are horrific and definitely on par with our current "leaders".

Spanos did the right thing in firing Marty. There's no way in hell I'd turn my draft over to him.

Mike Junkin at #5 overall? LMAO

You have a valid point about his personnel decisions, so I probably did the King a disservice.

But, come on, Marty can coach his ass off (until week 18 :().

[notorious]

We are we dragging Aaron Curry into this?

Curry's birthday celebration is coming up.......

[DeezNutz]

We are we dragging Aaron Curry into this?

:clap:

[DaneMcCloud]

Whoa Dane, don't lower the booms on me. You are taking something I said and twisting it.

Hate their team? ROFL

In any walk of life whether it is business or personal, letting emotion rule your decisions will cloud judgement.

The owners you listed are the minority, and I will also say that they probably stayed out, or put their emotion to the side when it came to the big decisions on the team.

Here's the deal, Dude:

The best and most consistent teams in the NFL are that way because of ownership.

Plain and simple.

Whether you're talking about the Mara's and the Giants, the Rooney's and the Steelers, Model & Cleveland/Baltimore, the Patriots and Bob Kraft, Jeff Lurie & the Eagles, DeBartolo and the 49ers, JKC and the 'Skins and so on.

Owners that demand championships get championships.

The Hunt family has never demanded a damn thing.

[notorious]

Three kings brought gifts to the newborn Jesus Curry as he slept in a manger...........

[Reerun_KC]

You have a valid point about his personnel decisions, so I probably did the King a disservice.

But, come on, Marty can coach his ass off (until week 18 :().

Actually if I remember right, didnt Marty get some of the personnel control in the late 90's that produced the phrase "Bones, Thugs and Marty"?

[Reerun_KC]

Here's the deal, Dude:

The best and most consistent teams in the NFL are that way because of ownership.

Plain and simple.

Whether you're talking about the Mara's and the Giants, the Rooney's and the Steelers, Model & Cleveland/Baltimore, the Patriots and Bob Kraft, Jeff Lurie & the Eagles, DeBartolo and the 49ers, JKC and the 'Skins and so on.

Owners that demand championships get championships.

The Hunt family has never demanded a damn thing.

Fair enough Dane... But Snyder? Come on.. Dude is KooKo for Cocoa Puffs....

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm more considered about your fucking Dan Snyder bullshit... obviously you're avoiding that shit at all costs because its an un-fucking believable argument for firing Haley

You're missing the point, Dipshit.

Lamar Hunt kept two bozos in charge of his franchise for nearly 30 years.

While those two bozos produced some results their first decade, they were totally EPIC FAIL for the next two decades.

The Chiefs went 15 YEARS without a playoff appearance and another 16 years without a playoff win.

Like it or not, Daniel Snyder wouldn't have just sat by and watched an empty stadium for nearly two decades and not done anything about it.

[DeezNutz]

Actually if I remember right, didnt Marty get some of the personnel control in the late 90's that produced the phrase "Bones, Thugs and Marty"?

1998.

And here we are now. It's a process.

[DaneMcCloud]

Fair enough Dane... But Snyder? Come on.. Dude is KooKo for Cocoa Puffs....

Sure, because each and every year, he tries to win.

That's crazy talk 'round these parts!

:facepalm:

[Reerun_KC]

You're missing the point, Dipshit.

Lamar Hunt kept two bozos in charge of his franchise for nearly 30 years.

While those two bozos produced some results their first decade, they were totally EPIC FAIL for the next two decades.

The Chiefs went 15 YEARS without a playoff appearance and another 16 years without a playoff win.

Like it or not, Daniel Snyder wouldn't have just sat by and watched an empty stadium for nearly two decades and not done anything about it.

Probably not.. Dude changes his personnel like I change underwear...

[notorious]

Here's the deal, Dude:

The best and most consistent teams in the NFL are that way because of ownership.

Plain and simple.

Whether you're talking about the Mara's and the Giants, the Rooney's and the Steelers, Model & Cleveland/Baltimore, the Patriots and Bob Kraft, Jeff Lurie & the Eagles, DeBartolo and the 49ers, JKC and the 'Skins and so on.

Owners that demand championships get championships.

The Hunt family has never demanded a damn thing.

Absolutely 100% Correct.

They probably love their teams, but they stay out of the way when it comes down to brass taxes. They hire the right people and get out of their way.

Snyder and Jones (lately) have hurt their teams by becoming too involved and letting their clouded judgement hold them back.

[KCTitus]

Washington will turn it around much more quickly than the Chiefs.

Bank it.

mmmkay...

[DaneMcCloud]

Probably not.. Dude changes his personnel like I change underwear...

That's not necessarily true.

He had stuck with Vinny Cerato for a decade.

Now that he's gone, we'll see. But with a dedicated fan base and tons of dough, I don't expect them to make many mistakes with Allen at the helm.

Especially if they get Shanahan.

[notorious]

Actually if I remember right, didnt Marty get some of the personnel control in the late 90's that produced the phrase "Bones, Thugs and Marty"?

Come on, Bam Morris and T. Vanover were quality citizens.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Three kings brought gifts to the newborn Jesus Curry as he slept in a manger...........

"I have no gift to bring, pa-rum-pa-pum-pum"
-Tebow.

[Reerun_KC]

Sure, because each and every year, he tries to win.

That's crazy talk 'round these parts!

:facepalm:

Okay, trying to win and succeeding are two different things dont you think?

Al Davis tries to win each year... Snyder tries to win each year...

So do you just fire everyone and start over the minute something doest go the way you want it to? That is Al Davis's plan and AD jr isnt far behind the crazy old bastard....

Snyder might want to win, but his quick fuse and reputation will keep him from it for awhile... He would probably be best served as a Hands off owner...

[KCTitus]

Actually if I remember right, didnt Marty get some of the personnel control in the late 90's that produced the phrase "Bones, Thugs and Marty"?

Yes, and after the abortion that was the 1998 season and Marty quit, two years later Snyder HIRED Marty and gave him personnel control.

It didnt work well.

But dont you worry, Snyder's got the Master Plan.

[Reerun_KC]

That's not necessarily true.

He had stuck with Vinny Cerato for a decade.

Now that he's gone, we'll see. But with a dedicated fan base and tons of dough, I don't expect them to make many mistakes with Allen at the helm.

Especially if they get Shanahan.

Fair enough, I can see your point... But dude has to stop messing around with the team..

You cant be a fan first and owner second... You would make WAY too many snap emotional decessions...

[DaneMcCloud]

Absolutely 100% Correct.

They probably love their teams, but they stay out of the way when it comes down to brass taxes. They hire the right people and get out of their way.

Snyder and Jones (lately) have hurt their teams by becoming too involved and letting their clouded judgement hold them back.

The Rooney's have always been intimately involved, just as have the Mara's and the others.

Here's an example of what I mean by that.

Mara: Hi Tom. What do you want to talk about?
Coughlin: As you know, Mr. Mara, our DC was hired by the Rams as HC.
Mara: Yes, I know.
TC: Well, I've decided to hire Clancy Pendergast.
Mara: Like FUCK you are! Find someone else. ANYONE else. And get the fuck out of my office.
TC: Yes sir.

[SPATCH]

You're missing the point, Dipshit.

Lamar Hunt kept two bozos in charge of his franchise for nearly 30 years.

While those two bozos produced some results their first decade, they were totally EPIC FAIL for the next two decades.

The Chiefs went 15 YEARS without a playoff appearance and another 16 years without a playoff win.

Like it or not, Daniel Snyder wouldn't have just sat by and watched an empty stadium for nearly two decades and not done anything about it.

The Dan Snyder approach to operating a football team has produced JACK SHIT.

You're delusional. This does more to justify keeping Haley than fire him.

[Reerun_KC]

The Rooney's have always been intimately involved, just as have the Mara's and the others.

Here's an example of what I mean by that.

Mara: Hi Tom. What do you want to talk about?
Coughlin: As you know, Mr. Mara, our DC was hired by the Rams as HC.
Mara: Yes, I know.
TC: Well, I've decided to hire Clancy Pendergast.
Mara: Like **** you are! Find someone else. ANYONE else. And get the **** out of my office.
TC: Yes sir.

That funny....

[DaneMcCloud]

The Dan Snyder approach to operating a football team has produced JACK SHIT.

You're delusional. This does more to justify keeping Haley than fire him.

And the Lamar Hunt/Clark Hunt way of operating a football team has produced what exactly in the last 40 YEARS?

[DaneMcCloud]

That funny....

A good owner would NEVER allow Pendergast to be hired as DC

[DeezNutz]

And the Lamar Hunt/Clark Hunt way of operating a football team has produced what exactly in the last 40 YEARS?

http://www.awomenscircle.net/Newsletters/February09/images/rainbows_0855.jpg

[Reerun_KC]

And the Lamar Hunt/Clark Hunt way of operating a football team has produced what exactly in the last 40 YEARS?


oooOOOOooOOOOooOOO

I know, I know, Pick me, Pick me!!!!!


Yes Reerun: ABSOLUTELY FAIL?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

oooOOOOooOOOOooOOO

I know, I know, Pick me, Pick me!!!!!


Yes Reerun: ABSOLUTELY FAIL?

ROFL

[Reerun_KC]

A good owner would NEVER allow Pendergast to be hired as DC

Agreed... It was a GROB hiring part 2.... Bad Bad choice... But there werent many options at that time of his hiring...

Cupboard was pretty bare.

[notorious]

A good owner would NEVER allow Pendergast to be hired as DC

Fucking A

In fact a good owner would have either:

A. Laughed in their face

or

B. Fired their ass on the spot for going full retard.

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL

What do I win?

:shrug:

[DaneMcCloud]

Okay, trying to win and succeeding are two different things dont you think?

Al Davis tries to win each year... Snyder tries to win each year...

So do you just fire everyone and start over the minute something doest go the way you want it to? That is Al Davis's plan and AD jr isnt far behind the crazy old bastard....

Snyder might want to win, but his quick fuse and reputation will keep him from it for awhile... He would probably be best served as a Hands off owner...

The Raiders have so much freakin' talent on that team.

If Gradkowski had been the starter all year, they'd have 10 wins right now.

[notorious]

The Raiders have so much freakin' talent on that team.

If Gradkowski had been the starter all year, they'd have 10 wins right now.

The Raiders are a QB away from being extremely dangerous. God help us if Al dies and they find that QB.

[DaneMcCloud]

Agreed... It was a GROB hiring part 2.... Bad Bad choice... But there werent many options at that time of his hiring...

Cupboard was pretty bare.

Absolutely, unequivocally, UNTRUE.

I addressed this in another thread.

There are 31 other NFL football franchises, each with defensive coaches.

There are more than 100 NCAA D-I schools, each with a defensive coordinator and coaches.

Are you suggesting that out of all of those candidates, CLANCY FUCKING PENDERGAST IS MOST QUALIFIED?

I didn't think so.

[SPATCH]

And the Lamar Hunt/Clark Hunt way of operating a football team has produced what exactly in the last 40 YEARS?

I don't give a fuck. I was pointing out that it was fucked up to defame a dead man that did so much in his lifetime. It is a matter of respect for your elders and the deceased.

Quit fucking back-peddling on Snyder. You are an impatient pussy, so is Snyder. It doesn't work when you are running a football team.

[Reerun_KC]

The Raiders are a QB away from being extremely dangerous. God help us if Al dies and they find that QB.

He will never die..... EVER!!!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't give a fuck. I was pointing out that it was fucked up to defame a dead man that did so much in his lifetime. It is a matter of respect for your elders and the deceased.

Quit fucking back-peddling on Snyder. You are an impatient pussy, so is Snyder. It doesn't work when you are running a football team.

Again, FUCK YOU.

Impatient? Hardly.

Except with stupid fucking morons like yourself.

[Reerun_KC]

Absolutely, unequivocally, UNTRUE.

I addressed this in another thread.

There are 31 other NFL football franchises, each with defensive coaches.

There are more than 100 NCAA D-I schools, each with a defensive coordinator and coaches.

Are you suggesting that out of all of those candidates, CLANCY ****ING PENDERGAST IS MOST QUALIFIED?

I didn't think so.

no not saying that... I dont remember who was out there that was a 3-4 guy when we were trying to fill this coaching staff so late n the year...

[notorious]

He will never die..... EVER!!!!!

Jesus Curry needs to talk to his Dad and have him grant Al immortality.

[DeezNutz]

We had limited options when Haley was hired. Couldn't get the fat man from NE, by way of Clev., so we had to turn to AZ, with Miami presumably on speed dial.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

What do I win?

:shrug:

Castoffs from the 2009 Pinkel recruiting drive? The Ark can only hold so many!

[Reerun_KC]

The Raiders are a QB away from being extremely dangerous. God help us if Al dies and they find that QB.

Maybe we could trade them Cassel or Croyle?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Maybe we could trade them Cassel or Croyle?

Or both!

[SPATCH]

Again, **** YOU.

Impatient? Hardly.

Except with stupid ****ing morons like yourself.

you're one of the biggest chicken little's on this board

[Reerun_KC]

Jesus Curry needs to talk to his Dad and have him grant Al immortality.

:clap:

[Red Dawg]

Are we the Raiders? Building a program means having a consistant program. Continuity counts in the NFL. I posted before that the most successful coaches stay in place at least 5 years. If this team does not have a winning record in 4 years then I would fire his ass. Haley has coached with some legendary coaches and knows a hell of alot more than anyone on this board. The difference between bad coasches and successful ones is the ability to get good players by drafting effectively and picking the right FA's to pay. That is what Scott was hired for. You have to know what you have first and that's what this season was about.

Going through a HC change after one year puts you back at zero.

[DaneMcCloud]

you're one of the biggest chicken little's on this board

Again, go fuck yourself.

And if you're going to make claims like that, which are totally and completely untrue, you'd better be prepared to back them up, Motherfucker.

[BossChief]

A good owner would NEVER allow Pendergast to be hired as DC

He wasnt hired as the DC. You have to know that. Im sure you do.

He was hired and then later appointed as the DC after we couldnt get anyone else that fit the criteria. We woo'd Crennel at the time and I can remember us saying that we arent done with the staff and then a week later after nobodty else was added, CP was named DC.

[SPATCH]

Are we the Raiders? Building a program means having a consistant program. Continuity counts in the NFL. I posted before that the most successful coaches stay in place at least 5 years. If this team does not have a winning record in 4 years then I would fire his ass. Haley has coached with some legendary coaches and knows a hell of alot more than anyone on this board. The difference between bad coasches and successful ones is the ability to get good players by drafting effectively and picking the right FA's to pay. That is what Scott was hired for. You have to know what you have first and that's what this season was about.

Going through a HC change after one year puts you back at zero.

don't you be adding rational thoughts to this discussion.

don't be coming up in here with logical thinking.

[DaneMcCloud]

He wasnt hired as the DC. You have to know that. Im sure you do.

He was hired and then later appointed as the DC after we couldnt get anyone else that fit the criteria. We woo'd Crennel at the time and I can remember us saying that we arent done with the staff and then a week later after nobodty else was added, CP was named DC.

Um, regardless of the time that passed, last time I checked, Pendergast was named Defensive Coordinator and is serving in that position.

Regardless, he should have NEVER been hired.

PERIOD.

[DeezNutz]

Media members speculated about the laughable nature of listing all the defensive coaches, yet not identifying them by title.

Early warning signs abounded...

[DaneMcCloud]

Are we the Raiders? Building a program means having a consistant program. Continuity counts in the NFL. I posted before that the most successful coaches stay in place at least 5 years. If this team does not have a winning record in 4 years then I would fire his ass. Haley has coached with some legendary coaches and knows a hell of alot more than anyone on this board. The difference between bad coasches and successful ones is the ability to get good players by drafting effectively and picking the right FA's to pay. That is what Scott was hired for. You have to know what you have first and that's what this season was about.

Going through a HC change after one year puts you back at zero.

Um, going through a year with Pioli & Haley puts you back at zero.

Or have you not been paying attention?

[SPATCH]

Again, go **** yourself.

And if you're going to make claims like that, which are totally and completely untrue, you'd better be prepared to back them up, Mother****er.

well you know what... all you have been doing is avoiding discussion by telling me to "go fuck myself" so uhhhhhh GO FUCK YOURSELF

[Brock]

Yeah, it's really logical to think that the light is suddenly going to go on for this bunch of dumbasses.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, it's really logical to think that the light is suddenly going to go on for this bunch of dumbasses.

Come on, Dude.

Don't you know that the longer you coach in the NFL, the smarter you become?

I mean, just look at Gunther!

[DeezNutz]

Are we the Raiders? Building a program means having a consistant program. Continuity counts in the NFL. I posted before that the most successful coaches stay in place at least 5 years. If this team does not have a winning record in 4 years then I would fire his ass. Haley has coached with some legendary coaches and knows a hell of alot more than anyone on this board. The difference between bad coasches and successful ones is the ability to get good players by drafting effectively and picking the right FA's to pay. That is what Scott was hired for. You have to know what you have first and that's what this season was about.

Going through a HC change after one year puts you back at zero.

4 years? You're staying with Haley, come hell or high water, for 4 years?

If the team doesn't have a winning record in 4 years, Pioli himself will be in serious danger of losing his job, forget the HC.

[Reerun_KC]

Um, going through a year with Pioli & Haley puts you back at zero.

Or have you not been paying attention?

I think someone here needs to get Clark Hunt on here and ask him what his expectations where? What limitations or parameters if any did He put on the GM and HC for personnel...

I think that would clear up alot of discussions on here where people think they have everything solved and know what the best thing for the franchise is...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

4 years? You're staying with Haley, come hell or high water, for 4 years?

If the team doesn't have a winning record in 4 years, Pioli himself will be in serious danger of losing his job, forget the HC.

I couldn't respond to that post. It just hurt my head too much.

[Reerun_KC]

4 years? You're staying with Haley, come hell or high water, for 4 years?

If the team doesn't have a winning record in 4 years, Pioli himself will be in serious danger of losing his job, forget the HC.

Not 4... But Maybe 3...

You can go from the depths of hell to superbowl in 3 years.... You should be able to rebuild your franchise in 3 years with FA and the draft...

[Brock]

The rate this team is going, we're going to have a lot of high draft picks on this team in 3 years.

[DaneMcCloud]

Not 4... But Maybe 3...

You can go from the depths of hell to superbowl in 3 years.... You should be able to rebuild your franchise in 3 years with FA and the draft...

Free agency will not exist as we know it in 2010.

And Pioli fucking screwed the pooch in 2009.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think someone here needs to get Clark Hunt on here and ask him what his expectations where? What limitations or parameters if any did He put on the GM and HC for personnel...

I think that would clear up alot of discussions on here where people think they have everything solved and know what the best thing for the franchise is...

His expectations were to hire the biggest name out there, hand him keys to the franchise and look the other way.

[Reerun_KC]

Free agency will not exist as we know it in 2010.

And Pioli ****ing screwed the pooch in 2009.

Guess it is time to shut it down... Close up the franchise and just quit.... No need to continue!

http://th590.photobucket.com/albums/ss344/devildogamp/th_RandyQuaidHappy-1.png

[Reerun_KC]

His expectations were to hire the biggest name out there, hand him keys to the franchise and look the other way.

Still would like to have Clark clear this up for us...

[DaneMcCloud]

Still would like to have Clark clear this up for us...

Good luck

[SPATCH]

Yeah, it's really logical to think that the light is suddenly going to go on for this bunch of dumbasses.

we need a larger sample size than one fucking season before we start adorning everyone "dumbasses"

Clark/Pioli/Haley deserve a fair shot at proving themselves and I'm telling you right now that one season is not a fair shot... I'll hear nothing different. Good night everyone (except Dane... fuck you Dane)

[BossChief]

Are we the Raiders? Building a program means having a consistant program. Continuity counts in the NFL. I posted before that the most successful coaches stay in place at least 5 years. If this team does not have a winning record in 4 years then I would fire his ass. Haley has coached with some legendary coaches and knows a hell of alot more than anyone on this board. The difference between bad coasches and successful ones is the ability to get good players by drafting effectively and picking the right FA's to pay. That is what Scott was hired for. You have to know what you have first and that's what this season was about.

Going through a HC change after one year puts you back at zero.

Im willing to give him the same amount of time Herm was. 3 years MAX.

By the middle of the third season, you can tell if you have any shot at winning a championship with said coach.

2 is too little, as if Vermeil was fired after two years for KC or Stl, he would have been total fail in both places. If Coughlin was fired after two years in NY, they most likely wouldn't have won the superbowl.

4 is too long IMHO.

Hard line approaches take time to sink into a roster mentality... as Vermeil and Coughin showed for multiple teams, as have many others. Haleys will be no different.

If we dont start to see something start to come together next year, this question should be asked, but this early is very unfair IMHO.

[Brock]

we need a larger sample size than one fucking season before we start adorning everyone "dumbasses"

Clark/Pioli/Haley deserve a fair shot at proving themselves and I'm telling you right now that one season is not a fair shot... I'll hear nothing different. Good night everyone (except Dane... fuck you Dane)

You think Holmgren is going to give Mangini another year?

[DaneMcCloud]

we need a larger sample size than one fucking season before we start adorning everyone "dumbasses"

Clark/Pioli/Haley deserve a fair shot at proving themselves and I'm telling you right now that one season is not a fair shot... I'll hear nothing different. Good night everyone (except Dane... fuck you Dane)

Before you go off into the land of Rainbows and Unicorns, I'd like you to give us TWO reasons why Haley should return next year.

Caveat: Neither reason can be because he's a rookie head coach and needs more time to develop OR that the roster isn't talented enough.

I'll be waiting.

[SPATCH]

You think Holmgren is going to give Mangini another year?

obviously no.

holmgren didn't hire mangini, he's going to be fucked.

Pioli, however, hired Haley.

BYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Brock]

obviously no.

holmgren didn't hire mangini, he's going to be fucked.

Pioli, however, hired Haley.

BYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What, Pioli can't admit he fucked up?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Guess it is time to shut it down... Close up the franchise and just quit.... No need to continue!

http://th590.photobucket.com/albums/ss344/devildogamp/th_RandyQuaidHappy-1.png

ROFL Oooh! Just a littlle outside!

<object width="384" height="313"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Zg34iR1D49c&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Zg34iR1D49c&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="384" height="313" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[DeezNutz]

How many years does Zorn deserve in Washington?

Anyone watch that game tonight? LMAO.

We can't judge this man, yet.

[DaneMcCloud]

How many years does Zorn deserve in Washington?

Anyone watch that game tonight? LMAO.

We can't judge this man, yet.

Snyder's a terrible owner. He should stop changing coaches and keep Zorn for at least three more years.

THEN he can be adequately judged.

[BossChief]

His expectations were to hire the biggest name out there, hand him keys to the franchise and look the other way.

That is pretty much what a good owner should do. Right? Not trying to argue here, but really what are you expecting him to do other than what he has done?

Pioli may have a lot of knocks on him, but one of those isnt that he couldnt effectivelty sign players to bolster the roster and to trade for difference makers. Those had been his responsibilities that he performed in NE to the highest level and should be given a chance to do so here for more than one offseason before declaring him a failure. The list of FAs he helped bring in to NE when he first got there wasnt impressive either, but the list of players he signed and traded for during the last 10 years there is quite impressive.

[SPATCH]

Before you go off into the land of Rainbows and Unicorns, I'd like you to give us TWO reasons why Haley should return next year.

Caveat: Neither reason can be because he's a rookie head coach and needs more time to develop OR that the roster isn't talented enough.

I'll be waiting.

1. Continuity within the organization

2. He hasn't assembled a staff he is comfortable and on the same page with (coordinators mainly)

and for shits...

LOYALTY AND FAIRNESS

[DeezNutz]

Zorn and his fucking fake FG. LMAO.

There's only one other coach in the league who might do that. And, yes, 4-8-28, gives us evidence that it's a possibility.

[Brock]

Zorn and his fucking fake FG. LMAO.

There's only one other coach in the league who might do that. And, yes, 4-8-28, gives us evidence that it's a possibility.

Is that more or less stupid than faking a punt with Brodie Croyle?

[DeezNutz]

1. Continuity within the organization

2. He hasn't assembled a staff he is comfortable and on the same page with (coordinators mainly)

and for shits...

LOYALTY AND FAIRNESS

2. He's not comfortable with his defensive coordinator? We'd agree that the "D" is probably the biggest area of concern, right?

[DeezNutz]

Is that more or less stupid than faking a punt with Brodie Croyle?

In theory, the punt was exponentially worse.

But the execution of the FG, oh my the fucking execution, might put Zorn's fake over the top.

Still, if I'm the GM of either of those teams, there would be little hope of me not being on the sideline after such stupidity, or destroying a club suite at the very least.

[Brock]

2. He's not comfortable with his defensive coordinator? We'd agree that the "D" is probably the biggest area of concern, right?

Whoa, whoa. You can't judge Clancy on one season.

[DeezNutz]

Whoa, whoa. You can't judge Clancy on one season.

True. He's only working with, what?, 4 first rounders, a 2nd, and two 3rds.

What the **** do you want from a guy with 7 day-one picks? That's practically handing 300 fucking yards to Harrison.

[DaneMcCloud]

1. Continuity within the organization

Continuity? You want to continue with this bumblefuck? What in the world are you watching on Sundays?

Between the fake punts on 4th down on your own 28 to the dumbshit onside kicks to overall horrific playcalling to the constant shuffling of players in and out of the lineup, you want this dumbass to return?

The same dumbass who refuses to put his best and most talented players on the field each and every Sunday because when they make a mistake, they go in his "dog house" for half the season?

That's the continuity your seeking?

2. He hasn't assembled a staff he is comfortable and on the same page with (coordinators mainly)

Bullshit. He only had a few weeks less than most of the new hires. Are you telling me that even though he's had a long history with most of these coaches, he would have found better with just a few extra weeks?

and for shits...

LOYALTY AND FAIRNESS

Fairness? What the fuck is that? Loyalty? Are you 75 years old?

There's no such thing in today's professional sports world (College, too).

Win, or get the fuck OUT.

[Easy 6]

Whoa, whoa. You can't judge Clancy on one season.

Clancy's had more than 1 year on the job.

[DeezNutz]

Clancy's had more than 1 year on the job.

Is that why his tenure has seemed so long in KC?

Here I thought I'd suffered through only 14 games...Well, I feel better now.

:)

[DaneMcCloud]

That is pretty much what a good owner should do. Right? Not trying to argue here, but really what are you expecting him to do other than what he has done?



No.

It's called Due Diligence.

A great owner would have scoured the league for a player personnel guru like Eric DeCosta. He would have paid insane money for Chris Polian. He would have found a guy like Tom Dimitroff.

He wouldn't taken a poll, found out the name of the hottest candidate and guaranteed him a five year contract.

One look at Pioli's draft record should be an indication. Another indication would be that he wasn't the GM at New England. Another would be the fact that he allowed Haley to go unchecked this season and hire Clancy Pendergast, keep Tim Krumrie, cut Bernie Pollard, fire Chan Gailey the week before the season started and so on and so forth.

GREAT owners, owners with RINGS on their fingers, do NOT allow their people to go UNCHECKED.

Unfortunately, the Hunt family allows "their people" to go unchecked for decades at a time.

[Easy 6]

Is that why his tenure has seemed so long in KC?

Here I thought I'd suffered through only 14 games...Well, I feel better now.

:)

I agree with so much of the frustration, sometimes its impossible for me to argue a straight faced single word... the Heat is on in KC & i'm def pro Heat, this isnt any fun for me either... but 1 year? after all of this? yet another rebuild?

I'll get more specific with all kinds of gaudy stats & bold predictions to back that later... bedtime for bonzo.

[BossChief]

No.

It's called Due Diligence.

A great owner would have scoured the league for a player personnel guru like Eric DeCosta. He would have paid insane money for Chris Polian. He would have found a guy like Tom Dimitroff.

He wouldn't taken a poll, found out the name of the hottest candidate and guaranteed him a five year contract.

One look at Pioli's draft record should be an indication. Another indication would be that he wasn't the GM at New England. Another would be the fact that he allowed Haley to go unchecked this season and hire Clancy Pendergast, keep Tim Krumrie, cut Bernie Pollard, fire Chan Gailey the week before the season started and so on and so forth.

GREAT owners, owners with RINGS on their fingers, do NOT allow their people to go UNCHECKED.

Unfortunately, the Hunt family allows "their people" to go unchecked for decades at a time.

Decosta wasnt leaving Baltimore. Period. Might as well not even bring him up.

Chris Polian was gonna succeed his dad and everyone knew it. No way he was gonna up and leave that organization. NO CHANCE. Same as Decosta.

Tom Dimtroff was in charge of all those "drafts" that you hate and have labeled failures for NE. Why clamour for him anyway, he went the year before.

Pioli was the executive of the decade and if we passed on him, you know as well as I do that Clark would be burned at the stake, by now, for not signing him.

Its NOT Piolis draft record. Stop saying that, its not true. I dont like the guy, but be fair man...those drafts were Tom Dimitroffs. right or wrong?

You are right, he wasnt the GM for NE, he was director of player personel..meaning he was in charge of trades and free agent signings..you know, the part of the machine in NE that made the ship sail so well. The part that allowed them to stay competitive over the course of a entire decade and compete for the majority of the championships of that time span.

He wanted Clancy to be a position coach, which would be good for us IMHO. He was the defacto DC after no better alternative was available that fit perameters.

Keeping Krummrie was a GOOD decision IMHO, letting Gibbs go wasnt. I will eternally wonder why people hate TK so badly, I think he is a very good position coach. Who has he failed to develop? He has done a fine job with about every player sent his way. I would have prefered to keep Gibbs at all costs, but if he wasnt allowed to interview with Houston and we chose a DC that wanted his own staff, it would leave us in a rough spot as far as league rep goes with how we handle our coaches. Believe me, there is a reason that Gun was allowed to leave but Krummrie was retained and we tried to keep Gibbs.

I HATED cutting Pollard, but also realize he has reacted poorly to hard coaching in the past for Purdue and was suspended in college for blow ups at coaches, you simply cant have that in the NFL...should he have been cut and not just suspended as Brandon Marshall was? NO, but something needed done and we openly tried to trade him before cutting him. I will always look back at that as a monumental mistake by us that set us back another step on our journey.

I also have no response for the firing of Gailey, but I also am not privy to info that was included in the decision.

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

[DaneMcCloud]

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

He wasn't a GM. How many times does that have to be said?

And who the FUCK are you to state that Decosta or Polian weren't "leaving"?

No offense but you're in Iowa.

I hardly think that YOU know what the fuck was going on with Clark Hunt.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother

[Simply Red]

Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother

Do you still like in n out, alright?

[L.A. Chieffan]

Do you still like in n out, alright?

your compliment was sufficent sr

[BossChief]

He wasn't a GM. How many times does that have to be said?

And who the **** are you to state that Decosta or Polian weren't "leaving"?

No offense but you're in Iowa.

I hardly think that YOU know what the **** was going on with Clark Hunt.

I didnt say he was a GM, I said he went out and got the best available GM available. Big difference dude. Matter of fact, fuck it I even said he wasnt the fucking gm in my post, but you seem to be so anxious to point the finger of doom at me that must have missed that.

On the Coalition, we have two well known resident trolls I have chatted with for years...one is a Colts fan and the other is a Ravens fan and I couldn't dodge the endless Baltimore and Indy updates if I tried. Believe me, and if you don't I will pm you proof, I wanted either of those two before Pioli, SP was far from MY personal choice. I lobbied for both Decosta and Polian and was shown the truth through conversation that neither even contemplated leaving either team. I know plenty about both situations and there was no chance of either guy leaving.

I take no offense obviously, but what does Iowa have to do with anything?

How do you think YOU know what the **** is going on with Clark Hunt? Im not the one making accusations here, you are bud. I never said:

"he just took a poll and hired the most popular cantidate" ...among other claims. I am simply stating facts.

[DaneMcCloud]

How do you think YOU know what the **** is going on with Clark Hunt?

Yes. And I could care less about trolls.

Im not the one making accusations here, you are bud. I never said:

"he just took a poll and hired the most popular cantidate"

He did just that

[BossChief]

Yes. And I could care less about trolls.



He did just that

What is "yes" an answer to, exactly?

he did more than just that. cmon, really? stop acting as if you were in the room, you werent. I wasnt either, just to get that out of the way ahead of time.

[BossChief]

Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother

we had one of the best dlines in 2006+2007 when our defense was definitely returning to respectability (ranked #16 and #13 overall yardage defense in 06+07) lead by the Dline...then CP traded away our top threat (Jared) and let our third best pass rusher (Jimmy Wilkerson) walk for nothing. Those two had over 20 sacks between them last year in roles VERY similar to the role they would have played here. Id also like to point out that you can go down the list and see that each player he has coached has progressively gotten better the longer they were coached by him.

IMHO he has played the hand given to him very well as our Dline coach. Too bad King Carl was dealin the fucking cards back then....

[Taco John]

Pioli - or any GM - would be a moron to fire a new coach after one single year. But especially the Chiefs. Between Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, your franchise was a walking corpse. That isn't going to be fixed in one season. What Haley brought back to KC was someone on the sidelines who channelled the frustration that Chiefs fans have been feeling for at least a decade onto the field. He has been great for you guys in that respect. He cusses, he cries, he cusses some more.

He should be given at least as much time to install his program as Herm was given. He's not perfect, to be sure. Hell, who knows if he's even any good? But whatever he is, it isn't Herm Edwards. And Pioli isn't Carl Peterson.

The disease that Carl installed into your franchise isn't going to go away overnight. To even ask the question about bringing Haley back shows a weakness of intellect to me. How can Whitlock not understand all the reasons why Haley should be given the opportunity to install his program?

[beach tribe]

Decosta wasnt leaving Baltimore. Period. Might as well not even bring him up.

Chris Polian was gonna succeed his dad and everyone knew it. No way he was gonna up and leave that organization. NO CHANCE. Same as Decosta.

Tom Dimtroff was in charge of all those "drafts" that you hate and have labeled failures for NE. Why clamour for him anyway, he went the year before.

Pioli was the executive of the decade and if we passed on him, you know as well as I do that Clark would be burned at the stake, by now, for not signing him.

Its NOT Piolis draft record. Stop saying that, its not true. I dont like the guy, but be fair man...those drafts were Tom Dimitroffs. right or wrong?

You are right, he wasnt the GM for NE, he was director of player personel..meaning he was in charge of trades and free agent signings..you know, the part of the machine in NE that made the ship sail so well. The part that allowed them to stay competitive over the course of a entire decade and compete for the majority of the championships of that time span.

He wanted Clancy to be a position coach, which would be good for us IMHO. He was the defacto DC after no better alternative was available that fit perameters.

Keeping Krummrie was a GOOD decision IMHO, letting Gibbs go wasnt. I will eternally wonder why people hate TK so badly, I think he is a very good position coach. Who has he failed to develop? He has done a fine job with about every player sent his way. I would have prefered to keep Gibbs at all costs, but if he wasnt allowed to interview with Houston and we chose a DC that wanted his own staff, it would leave us in a rough spot as far as league rep goes with how we handle our coaches. Believe me, there is a reason that Gun was allowed to leave but Krummrie was retained and we tried to keep Gibbs.

I HATED cutting Pollard, but also realize he has reacted poorly to hard coaching in the past for Purdue and was suspended in college for blow ups at coaches, you simply cant have that in the NFL...should he have been cut and not just suspended as Brandon Marshall was? NO, but something needed done and we openly tried to trade him before cutting him. I will always look back at that as a monumental mistake by us that set us back another step on our journey.

I also have no response for the firing of Gailey, but I also am not privy to info that was included in the decision.

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

Pioli was the consensus #1 candidate in the league, and probably was paid as so. Polian? DeCosta? Good Lord that's funny.

Pollard was a fucking liability. I think it was CLEAR that we HAD to go after another Safety, or two, so why keep around a guy who demeans the authority of the coaching staff? I don't mind Pollard being gone at at all.
Texans with Pollard 8-8. Texans Without Pollard 8-8. Pollard is the starter on a team who has openly admitted that every other safety they had sucked beyond belief, so yeah, I'm sure they are happy to have him. I will be happy to have the guy who man's the spot in 2010. Trust me, It won't be mike Brown.

As for Pioli, I'm damn glad to have him, and anyone who wasn't happy the day they signed him, just cannot be pleased unless the organization does exactly what they think should be done, Like buy the Colts, and fire Polian, because that's the only way his ass was coming to KC.
I mean really. Pick players to play with Peyton Manning, or go to the Chiefs.
Some people are just stupid, and just don't know it.

[beach tribe]

He did just that

God you are so unbelievably dense.

[beach tribe]

. I lobbied for both Decosta and Polian and was shown the truth through conversation that neither even contemplated leaving either team.



Anybody with a brain knows these guys weren't leaving their organizations for the Chiefs. Especially Polian.

Unfortunately Dane is too fucking arrogant, and hard headed to look in any other direction through his "fuck all but mine" binoculars.

[Chiefnj2]

Decosta wasnt leaving Baltimore. Period. Might as well not even bring him up.

Chris Polian was gonna succeed his dad and everyone knew it. No way he was gonna up and leave that organization. NO CHANCE. Same as Decosta.

Tom Dimtroff was in charge of all those "drafts" that you hate and have labeled failures for NE. Why clamour for him anyway, he went the year before.

Pioli was the executive of the decade and if we passed on him, you know as well as I do that Clark would be burned at the stake, by now, for not signing him.

Its NOT Piolis draft record. Stop saying that, its not true. I dont like the guy, but be fair man...those drafts were Tom Dimitroffs. right or wrong?

You are right, he wasnt the GM for NE, he was director of player personel..meaning he was in charge of trades and free agent signings..you know, the part of the machine in NE that made the ship sail so well. The part that allowed them to stay competitive over the course of a entire decade and compete for the majority of the championships of that time span.

He wanted Clancy to be a position coach, which would be good for us IMHO. He was the defacto DC after no better alternative was available that fit perameters.

Keeping Krummrie was a GOOD decision IMHO, letting Gibbs go wasnt. I will eternally wonder why people hate TK so badly, I think he is a very good position coach. Who has he failed to develop? He has done a fine job with about every player sent his way. I would have prefered to keep Gibbs at all costs, but if he wasnt allowed to interview with Houston and we chose a DC that wanted his own staff, it would leave us in a rough spot as far as league rep goes with how we handle our coaches. Believe me, there is a reason that Gun was allowed to leave but Krummrie was retained and we tried to keep Gibbs.

I HATED cutting Pollard, but also realize he has reacted poorly to hard coaching in the past for Purdue and was suspended in college for blow ups at coaches, you simply cant have that in the NFL...should he have been cut and not just suspended as Brandon Marshall was? NO, but something needed done and we openly tried to trade him before cutting him. I will always look back at that as a monumental mistake by us that set us back another step on our journey.

I also have no response for the firing of Gailey, but I also am not privy to info that was included in the decision.

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

For the most part, an excellent post. But I'm not sure why you are arguing facts with a knee jerk reactionary crowd.

[beach tribe]

For the most part, an excellent post. But I'm not sure why you are arguing facts with a knee jerk reactionary crowd.

Agreed

[Brock]

Pioli - or any GM - would be a moron to fire a new coach after one single year. But especially the Chiefs. Between Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, your franchise was a walking corpse. That isn't going to be fixed in one season. What Haley brought back to KC was someone on the sidelines who channelled the frustration that Chiefs fans have been feeling for at least a decade onto the field. He has been great for you guys in that respect. He cusses, he cries, he cusses some more.


Well, Holmgren is going to fire Mangini. And I don't think Holmgren is a moron. If you think what this team needed is somebody to cuss, cry, and cuss some more, I have news for you. They needed and still need, somebody who can coach players up and make good sideline decisions. I've not seen anything like that from Haley.

[Reerun_KC]

Well, Holmgren is going to fire Mangini. And I don't think Holmgren is a moron. If you think what this team needed is somebody to cuss, cry, and cuss some more, I have news for you. They needed and still need, somebody who can coach players up and make good sideline decisions. I've not seen anything like that from Haley.

While I agree with Taco John to a certian point. Haley is channeling our frustration to the players, just we all do to the TV on sunday...

Also your bolded part? We have seen this in 4 years. People are acting like this is something new to the Chiefs...

We have be deprived of talent evaluation for years, coaching the day Herm was hired...

[DeezNutz]

While I agree with Taco John to a certian point. Haley is channeling our frustration to the players, just we all do to the TV on sunday...

Also your bolded part? We have seen this in 4 years. People are acting like this is something new to the Chiefs...

We have be deprived of talent evaluation for years, coaching the day Herm was hired...

Just because we've been failing for years doesn't mean that we should be content to continue to roll with the status quo.

[Brock]

Also your bolded part? We have seen this in 4 years. People are acting like this is something new to the Chiefs...

We have be deprived of talent evaluation for years, coaching the day Herm was hired...

So what? Let's just keep doing it?

[beach tribe]

Well, Holmgren is going to fire Mangini. And I don't think Holmgren is a moron. If you think what this team needed is somebody to cuss, cry, and cuss some more, I have news for you. They needed and still need, somebody who can coach players up and make good sideline decisions. I've not seen anything like that from Haley.

Yeah, but Holmgren didn't pick Mangini, and probably doesn't share any of his philosophies.
Apples to oranges.

[Reerun_KC]

So what? Let's just keep doing it?

Like I have a say so in the matter.... I seriously doubt Clark or Scott give a flying fuck about what Reerun_KC says....

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Pioli - or any GM - would be a moron to fire a new coach after one single year. But especially the Chiefs. Between Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, your franchise was a walking corpse. That isn't going to be fixed in one season. What Haley brought back to KC was someone on the sidelines who channelled the frustration that Chiefs fans have been feeling for at least a decade onto the field. He has been great for you guys in that respect. He cusses, he cries, he cusses some more.

He should be given at least as much time to install his program as Herm was given. He's not perfect, to be sure. Hell, who knows if he's even any good? But whatever he is, it isn't Herm Edwards. And Pioli isn't Carl Peterson.

The disease that Carl installed into your franchise isn't going to go away overnight. To even ask the question about bringing Haley back shows a weakness of intellect to me. How can Whitlock not understand all the reasons why Haley should be given the opportunity to install his program?

JFC.

The reasons listed to keep Haley--

1) Herm got three years
2) He's a raving lunatic on the sidelines
3) He's not Herm

Of course you want us to keep Haley, when we last played you ran a fake punt on 4th and 8 from his own fucking 28 with our backup quarterback in a one score game.

[Brock]

Yeah, but Holmgren didn't pick Mangini, and probably doesn't share any of his philosophies.
Apples to oranges.

Read the post I was replying to.

[Brock]

Like I have a say so in the matter.... I seriously doubt Clark or Scott give a flying fuck about what Reerun_KC says....

Advance the topic or grab a broom.

[Reerun_KC]

JFC.

The reasons listed to keep Haley--

1) Herm got three years
2) He's a raving lunatic on the sidelines
3) He's not Herm

Of course you want us to keep Haley, when we last played you ran a fake punt on 4th and 8 from his own ****ing 28 with our backup quarterback in a one score game.

So is it fair to say that the Chiefs and not the Broncos had the "best offseason eva"?

[Reerun_KC]

Advance the topic or grab a broom.

R u stalking me? I just got done sweeping the whole house.... Creep...

guess I need to throw more speculation out there? I have zero facts from Clark or Pioli or Haley to add to this matter... Otherwise I would just be spewing crap from my mouth about a subject that I have zero evidence to back it up....

I wasnt one of the chosen ones on here to get the inside scoop on from Hunt or Pioli...

[Brock]

R u stalking me? I just got done sweeping the whole house.... Creep...

guess I need to throw more speculation out there? I have zero facts from Clark or Pioli or Haley to add to this matter... Otherwise I would just be spewing crap from my mouth about a subject that I have zero evidence to back it up....

I wasnt one of the chosen ones on here to get the inside scoop on from Hunt or Pioli...

"I have no opinion of my own, but here's some irrelevant words about nothing".

['Hamas' Jenkins]

we had one of the best dlines in 2006+2007 when our defense was definitely returning to respectability (ranked #16 and #13 overall yardage defense in 06+07) lead by the Dline...then CP traded away our top threat (Jared) and let our third best pass rusher (Jimmy Wilkerson) walk for nothing. Those two had over 20 sacks between them last year in roles VERY similar to the role they would have played here. Id also like to point out that you can go down the list and see that each player he has coached has progressively gotten better the longer they were coached by him.

IMHO he has played the hand given to him very well as our Dline coach. Too bad King Carl was dealin the fucking cards back then....

What the hell are you talking about? Wilkerson did shit here. 1 sack in his entire Chiefs career. 11 in 2 years in Tampa. And he didn't have the benefit of Jared Allen in Tampa.

What about the hordes of DL he "improved" in Buffalo and Cincinnati. Umm...who, exactly? Tim "T-Rex" Anderson?

You know what that shows me? That Krumrie is the problem, not the solution.

[BigCatDaddy]

JFC.

The reasons listed to keep Haley--

1) Herm got three years
2) He's a raving lunatic on the sidelines
3) He's not Herm

Of course you want us to keep Haley, when we last played you ran a fake punt on 4th and 8 from his own ****ing 28 with our backup quarterback in a one score game.


A reason they will keep Haley would be the price tag to fire him. They would basically be paying for 2 HC's the next 3 years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yes, he's made some boneheaded in-game decisions, but to me, it comes back to talent evaluation.

It took LJ mouthing off for us to learn that Charles is capable of being the man.

It took injury to find our best 5 offensive linemen.

We're still starting Vrabel over Studebaker.

And then yesterday, I hear this beauty:

Cassel was speaking with a reporter about his past performances being sub-par, and Cassel told him that he was graded out as having ZERO ERRORS during the Buffalo game.

This is a game in which Cassel threw 4 INT's and had a 35.4 QB rating.

I have a hard time trusting the guys doing the grading after that.

[Chiefnj2]

And then yesterday, I hear this beauty:

Cassel was speaking with a reporter about his past performances being sub-par, and Cassel told him that he was graded out as having ZERO ERRORS during the Buffalo game.

This is a game in which Cassel threw 4 INT's and had a 35.4 QB rating.

I have a hard time trusting the guys doing the grading after that.

Link??

['Hamas' Jenkins]

A reason they will keep Haley would be the price tag to fire him. They would basically be paying for 2 HC's the next 3 years.

And yet we gave Matt Cassel 60 million fucking dollars before he took a snap for us.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yes, he's made some boneheaded in-game decisions, but to me, it comes back to talent evaluation.

It took LJ mouthing off for us to learn that Charles is capable of being the man.

It took injury to find our best 5 offensive linemen.

We're still starting Vrabel over Studebaker.

And then yesterday, I hear this beauty:

Cassel was speaking with a reporter about his past performances being sub-par, and Cassel told him that he was graded out as having ZERO ERRORS during the Buffalo game.

This is a game in which Cassel threw 4 INT's and had a 35.4 QB rating.

I have a hard time trusting the guys doing the grading after that.

The fact that Cassel would even tell a reporter that with a straight face, even if his coaches gave him such a stupid evaluation, just further illustrates that he's part of the problem.

There isn't a fucking quarterback alive who could take that evaluation with a straight face if they had any pride or belief in a team concept.

That just screams "cover your ass".

[RedThat]

It also shows how meddlesome, know-nothing owners can **** up a franchise.

I can count the number of good decisions Snyder and Davis have made this decade on both hands.

Don't act like firing those coaches one year in ruined everything.

I agree that a bad owner is the problem to a bad team.

However, all Im trying to say is, when you hire a new coach, chances are he is going to bring in his new staff, new scheme, new philosophy, etc.

Pretty much EVERYTHING is new! So the players have to adjust accordingly. It's a whole new transition process and learning curve for the players in general because they have to be intellegent enough to blend into the "new" coaches, philosophy and schemes, it really comes down to the players capabilities of adapting to their new environment. Look what happened with Dorsey? He wasn't drafted to be a 3-4DE or is suitable enough to play the nose? New scheme, new coach, and voila he is no longer a 4-3 DT but a 3-4 DE. Thank goodness he is playing pretty well at that position. Sometimes its not easy to adapt to a new environment. Some guys can do it, others not so well. This is why when teams hire a new head coach, chances are there will be a lot of turnover on your roster because its all about them finding the right players that are capable of adapting to the scheme and philosophy. thats just as important as talent level.

when you hire new coaches all the time, then you're pretty much constantly experimenting. The coaches are trying get a "feel" for their players to see what they're capable of doing. players are trying to always adapt. sometimes its best to be patient, let the players learn things over time. I don't know about you, but Id rather see a player master at something rather then have to learn new schemes all the time and start from square 1 again and again. The Steelers are an example of sticking with their plan, and are rewarded for it.

[BigCatDaddy]

And yet we gave Matt Cassel 60 million ****ing dollars before he took a snap for us.


Sign me up for Cowher, Shanny, or Gruden. It's just not like the Hunts to pay for something like that. I remember people being surprised the bought out Herm and Carl with only 1 year remaining.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Link??

Was mentioned in Haley's presser yesterday.

Not sure if the text copy has been released yet, and if so, I'll bet anything they cut it out.

[KCDC]

Though disappointed in Pioli's performance, it is hard to argue that Clark signing him was a mistake. He was the consensus best guy available. Getting anyone to come take on the Chiefs was challenge enough, but getting someone with those credentials, who said no to other better teams, was something of a coup for Clark. The move was applauded by most every commenter. Just because he has yet to prove to be the genious that we hoped is not a reason to be anything more than disappointed, hoping he will learn from his mistakes.

In his last radio interview, Pioli admitted making mistakes. I think he learned a valuable lesson that won't be repeated. As a football executive in NE, he left coaching to the coaches. Having BB meant that you never second-guessed him. Second, any first time senior executive wants to believe that you should delegate responsibility to the supervisor beneath him ... to let him blossom. After you learn that he is incapable of that, you step in. That is what is happening here. Pioli's mistake was letting Haley have complete control of coaching. It was a rookie mistake to trust a rookie. I don't think that happens agains.

Haley has made mistakes. He thought he was smarter than everyone else. That is not uncommon. Heck, there are a lot of posters here on CP that have that same mental failing. *laughs* He thought he was a better OC, based on what he did with a good QB and two great receivers in Arizona. And, to be fair, the Chiefs played like crap in the preseason, so Haley blamed Gailey, thinking he could do no worse. Heck, many of us fans felt the same, at times.

This season has been a humbling experience for Haley. We will benefit from that in year #2. Pioli will now be more hands on in coaching decisions in year two. We will benefit from that. Haley will get some help (more ways than one), and we will benefit from that. Haley will begin to realize that theory does not always work in reality. In theory, the fake punt should have caught Denver completely unaware and worked like a dream. In reality, you cannot expect good execution from mediocre players. It was reckless to try it, but it could have been a great play, in theory. Year 2, Haley dispenses with novel theory. We benefit.

In contrast, Denver will not benefit. Their 6-0 start merely cemented in Josh McDaniel's mind that he *is* a genius. It was the players that failed him, not the other way round. He has not had the same humbling that a new HC needs in order to realize that it is a team effort of coaches, just as it is a team effort on the field.

If Haley was a moron, like Herm, I would despair because a lesson in humility to a moron is not as likely to yield positive results (unless it causes them to hire good people and stand back). Some of Haley's calls may seem moronic, at times, but the man seems to be a student of the game, and one that will learn well. Yes, it would have been nice to have a professor of the game, rather than a student, but that has its own drawbacks too.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The fact that Cassel would even tell a reporter that with a straight face, even if his coaches gave him such a stupid evaluation, just further illustrates that he's part of the problem.

There isn't a fucking quarterback alive who could take that evaluation with a straight face if they had any pride or belief in a team concept.

That just screams "cover your ass".

That leads to Part 2 of the question that was asked:

Apparently, Gretz had spoken with Cassel after the Buffalo game and said something like, "How important is it to bounce back after having 2 really bad games" and Cassel got really defensive and said, "Interesting you say I've had 2 bad games."

So in the presser yesterday, both of those were used as lead-in's to a question asking Haley if Cassel is capable of seeing when he isn't performing - and being able to learn from it.

Haley hemmed and hawed around, and dodged the question.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sure as shit, they dropped the lead-in's to those questions:

Q: Is Matt Cassel able to criticize himself? Is he maybe not as self-aware as you’d like a quarterback to be?

HALEY: “Are you referring how he acts with me or with you? I don’t hear how he interacts with you unless you to tell me, or how he works with other people.”

Q: Not how he talks to you, but can he accept he plays poorly when he plays poorly?

HALEY: “Maybe that’s an important question to you but it’s not an important question to me. I know what a quarterback has to do to be a winning quarterback in the league and that’s what I’m concerned with. I care about how he reads coverages, how his [pass] drops are, that he handles the ball well and is not careless with it, that he’s got the arm and accuracy to make the throws that are necessary to win. Coming off that game I believe there are some encouraging signs.”


Nothing like censoring press conferences...

[DaneMcCloud]

Anybody with a brain knows these guys weren't leaving their organizations for the Chiefs. Especially Polian.

Unfortunately Dane is too fucking arrogant, and hard headed to look in any other direction through his "fuck all but mine" binoculars.

Fuck you, you don't know jackshit.

[DaneMcCloud]

Pollard was a fucking liability. I think it was CLEAR that we HAD to go after another Safety, or two, so why keep around a guy who demeans the authority of the coaching staff? I don't mind Pollard being gone at at all.

More idiocy from the guy who thinks Tyson Jackson is, and I quote a "bad ass".

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

God you are so unbelievably dense.

Hey Crackhead, let us know the next time you sit down with some NFL execs, okay?

You REALLY don't have a fucking clue.

Seriously.

[Fish]

Sure as shit, they dropped the lead-in's to those questions:




Nothing like censoring press conferences...

Wow... that reeks of a coach blaming WRs for his QB's ineptness...

Coming off that game I believe there are some encouraging signs.

Just fucking chew on a loaded shotgun already....

[DaneMcCloud]

Yes, he's made some boneheaded in-game decisions, but to me, it comes back to talent evaluation.

It took LJ mouthing off for us to learn that Charles is capable of being the man.

It took injury to find our best 5 offensive linemen.

We're still starting Vrabel over Studebaker.

And then yesterday, I hear this beauty:

Cassel was speaking with a reporter about his past performances being sub-par, and Cassel told him that he was graded out as having ZERO ERRORS during the Buffalo game.

This is a game in which Cassel threw 4 INT's and had a 35.4 QB rating.

I have a hard time trusting the guys doing the grading after that.

I decided the guy needed to guy immediately after hearing that nonsense.

When asked whether or not Cassel had been intellectually honest about his play and could look in the mirror, Haley said "I don't worry about such things".

Yeah, that Todd Haley. He's QUITE the QB coach.

:shake:

[DaneMcCloud]

Link??

It was spoken by Haley during his PC yesterday.

I have no idea if it's up on the site.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They didn't cut it out of the video:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2009/12/21/todd_haley_press_conference__1221/

[DaneMcCloud]

Pretty much EVERYTHING is new! So the players have to adjust accordingly.

More bullshit.

There are 45 new players. The overwhelming majority come from the SAME EXACT SYSTEM, whether it be from Miami, Arizona or New England.


The Steelers are an example of sticking with their plan, and are rewarded for it.

Again, more bullshit.

The Pittsburgh Steelers ARE the Pittsburgh Steelers for one reason and one reason alone:

Ownership. PERIOD.

[Chiefnj2]

They didn't cut it out of the video:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2009/12/21/todd_haley_press_conference__1221/

Thanks.

Cassel supposedly said he had zero "mental" errors in the Buffalo game. That first pick looked like a huge mental error to me. The others may have been tipped and/or a Hail Mary, but that first one was definitely a mental error.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thanks.

Cassel supposedly said he had zero "mental" errors in the Buffalo game. That first pick looked like a huge mental error to me. The others may have been tipped and/or a Hail Mary, but that first one was definitely a mental error.

Here's the other thing:

Did every pass, INT or not go where it was supposed to go? Did he make the right decision EVERY time?

As you've pointed out, the first INT was without question a dumb decision.

You can't tell me he made the right decision 40+ times in a game he was picked off 4 times.

[BigChiefFan]

Most knew this season was going to be trash. Welcome to reality. Haley's the coach and will continue to be. Time to move on. It's been 14 games, with the worst roster in the entire NFL and some act like he's been here for years fucking things up. Newsflash-he hasn't.

This is just spillover of years of ineptness and it's coming to a boil.
Reality is, we are a horrible team and have been for some time. We've been on the downward spiral for a long time and people are fed-up and figured Haley as the scapegoat. It's a sad tune that needs to be changed, because it's not giving him a fair shake to establish his system, with his guys.
Give the guy a break, for God's sake.

[Fish]

Most knew this season was going to be trash. Welcome to reality. Haley's the coach and will continue to be. Time to move on. It's been 14 games, with the worst roster in the entire NFL and some act like he's been here for years fucking things up. Newsflash-he hasn't.

This is just spillover of years of ineptness and it's coming to a boil.
Reality is, we are a horrible team and have been for some time. We've been on the downward spiral for a long time and people are fed-up and figured Haley as the scapegoat. It's a sad tune that needs to be changed, because it's not giving him a fair shake to establish his system, with his guys.
Give the guy a break, for God's sake.

How do you explain the fact that well over half the team is Pioli picked players and we're still the worst roster in the entire NFL. Worse than last year. The best playmakers on the team right now aren't even Pioli picked players, they're Herm picked players. It's as simple as that.

[BigChiefFan]

How do you explain the fact that well over half the team is Pioli picked players and we're still the worst roster in the entire NFL. Worse than last year. The best playmakers on the team right now aren't even Pioli picked players, they're Herm picked players. It's as simple as that.
You act as if we went out and signed all of these hand-picked players to huge contracts, as if they were some kind of huge acquisitions and staples of the team, when nothing could be further from the truth.

The team was HORRIBLE, EVIDENCED by a team total of 10 sacks on defense last year. The offense was just as inept, as we had to run a gimmick offense just to stay close in games and do we really need to talk about Herm's carousel of kickers on special teams? All three phases of the game we're attrocious.

They(current FO and coaching staff) KNEW what they had, wouldn't work, so they had to take a conservative approach to see if any low-cost free agents could actually upgrade the roster, making the monumental task of over-hauling this roster, slightly easier, in the hopes that a few could pan out-

I would say that move has actually paid off, in now knowing there's a few players, who deserve a shot back at making this team next year. Others CLEARLY DON'T and now we can easily walk away from those, that don't, with little to NO cost.

[Chiefnj2]

Here's the other thing:

Did every pass, INT or not go where it was supposed to go? Did he make the right decision EVERY time?

As you've pointed out, the first INT was without question a dumb decision.

You can't tell me he made the right decision 40+ times in a game he was picked off 4 times.

1 pick was a hail mary, and two were tipped balls. I guess he doesn't count those as mental errors.

[Fish]

You act as if we went out and signed all of these hand-picked players to huge contracts, as if they were some kind of huge acquisitions and staples of the team, when nothing could be further from the truth.

So we had the least talented team in the NFL and they knew it. And even though they turned over more than half the roster, they couldn't find a "Staple" player out of that that turned out better than the least talented team in the NFL?

That indicates very poor talent acquisition if you can't find a "Staple" player when turning over more than half the roster of the least talented team in the NFL. That's basically saying the team was the worst, yet after replacing half of the worst team, we still have the worst team in the NFL. Think about that.

The team was HORRIBLE, EVIDENCED by a team total of 10 sacks on defense last year. The offense was just as inept, as we had to run a gimmick offense just to stay close in games and do we really need to talk about Herm's carousel of kickers?

They(current FO and coaching staff) KNEW what they had, wouldn't work, so they had to take a conservative approach to see if any low-cost free agents could actually upgrade the roster, making the monumental task of over-hauling this roster, slightly easier, in the hopes that a few could pan out-

And you think the current FO and coaching staff went into the season knowing what they wanted to do wouldn't work? They "hoped" that a few out of more than half the roster would "pan out"? Fuck me, how low of expectations can they possibly have? That sounds like the approach of a completely inept franchise, not one that is supposedly headed in the right direction under new management.

I would say that move has actually paid off, in now knowing there's a few players, who deserve a shot back at making this team next year. Others CLEARLY DON'T and now we can easily walk away from those, that don't, with little to NO cost.

Baffling. Totally baffling. They wasted an entire season for the benefit of evaluating "a few players" that should come back. And you say it actually paid off. We were the worst team in the NFL last season, by your own words. And the only positive to come of this entire season is knowing "a few players" should be back.

Holy hell.

[Chiefnj2]

That indicates very poor talent acquisition if you can't find a "Staple" player when turning over more than half the roster of the least talented team in the NFL. That's basically saying the team was the worst, yet after replacing half of the worst team, we still have the worst team in the NFL. Think about that.


.

Did you honestly believe that the WRs they brought in (Lelie, Long, etc.) were going to be some long term solution? There is a reason why those guys were on the market and some are still without a home. There's also a reason why so many of the players released are still without a job as well.

[SDChiefs]

Did you honestly believe that the WRs they brought in (Lelie, Long, etc.) were going to be some long term solution? There is a reason why those guys were on the market and some are still without a home. There's also a reason why so many of the players released are still without a job as well.

Its because they sucked, and everyother franchise knew they sucked. Except Scott Pioli. Masterful.:doh!:

[Chiefnj2]

Its because they sucked, and everyother franchise knew they sucked. Except Scott Pioli. Masterful.:doh!:

So now the argument is that he shouldn't have brought in anyone to try to improve the team. I get it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Most knew this season was going to be trash. Welcome to reality. Haley's the coach and will continue to be. Time to move on. It's been 14 games, with the worst roster in the entire NFL and some act like he's been here for years fucking things up. Newsflash-he hasn't.

This is just spillover of years of ineptness and it's coming to a boil.
Reality is, we are a horrible team and have been for some time. We've been on the downward spiral for a long time and people are fed-up and figured Haley as the scapegoat. It's a sad tune that needs to be changed, because it's not giving him a fair shake to establish his system, with his guys.
Give the guy a break, for God's sake.

This whole post reeks of complete and utter nonsense

[ToxSocks]

No.

It's called Due Diligence.

A great owner would have scoured the league for a player personnel guru like Eric DeCosta. He would have paid insane money for Chris Polian. He would have found a guy like Tom Dimitroff.

He wouldn't taken a poll, found out the name of the hottest candidate and guaranteed him a five year contract.

One look at Pioli's draft record should be an indication. Another indication would be that he wasn't the GM at New England. Another would be the fact that he allowed Haley to go unchecked this season and hire Clancy Pendergast, keep Tim Krumrie, cut Bernie Pollard, fire Chan Gailey the week before the season started and so on and so forth.

GREAT owners, owners with RINGS on their fingers, do NOT allow their people to go UNCHECKED.

Unfortunately, the Hunt family allows "their people" to go unchecked for decades at a time.


So why are you a Chiefs fan?

You don't like the owner
You don't like the GM
You don't like the Head Coach
You don't like the Assistant coaches
You don't like the players
You don't even live in KC

So why are you here? Why do you root for the Chiefs?

If you think the root of the problem is the owner, well guess what, that isn't going to change. And Scott Pioli had much better credentials than Eric DeCosta. Personally, i wanted DeCosta, but you can't fault Clark for going with Pioli. The Giants wanted Pioli. Is that Giants owner stupid too?

I mean really, if you think the root of the problem is Clark Hunt, then maybe you should find another team. Because by your logic, this team will never be good as long as Clark is the owner. Come back when either Clark dies or sells the team.

[SDChiefs]

So now the argument is that he shouldn't have brought in anyone to try to improve the team. I get it.

No, he should have tried to bring in good players. Not the garbage off the Pats, Cards, and Dolphins practice squads.

[DaneMcCloud]

So now the argument is that he shouldn't have brought in anyone to try to improve the team. I get it.

The argument should be this:

Why wasn't Todd Haley able to properly evaluate the existing talent on his roster from day one?

Why did it take 15 weeks of the regular season, four weeks of pre-season, and countless weeks of OTA & workouts to realize that his most talented receivers are Bowe, Bradley & Cottam?

Why did it take all this time to put the best offensive line on the field? Albert, Alleman, Niswanger, Smith & Richardson performed incredibly well together but it took 4 months to figure this out? Furthermore, why in the HELL was Richardson cut and stuck on the Practice Squad?

I don't have as many problems with the defensive side of the ball because they lack so much talent that I don't think there's a "gem" in hiding. But I do have issues with Vrabel over Studebaker and Brown over ANYONE.

Todd Haley is supposed to be an offensive mastermind, yet he can't determine his best skill position players or best offensive line unit until after he's been on the job for more than 10 months?

I think this is a problem going forward...

[DaneMcCloud]

So why are you a Chiefs fan?

You don't like the owner
You don't like the GM
You don't like the Head Coach
You don't like the Assistant coaches
You don't like the players
You don't even live in KC

So why are you here? Why do you root for the Chiefs?

If you think the root of the problem is the owner, well guess what, that isn't going to change. And Scott Pioli had much better credentials than Eric DeCosta. Personally, i wanted DeCosta, but you can't fault Clark for going with Pioli. The Giants wanted Pioli. Is that Giants owner stupid too?

I mean really, if you think the root of the problem is Clark Hunt, then maybe you should find another team. Because by your logic, this team will never be good as long as Clark is the owner. Come back when either Clark dies or sells the team.

Maybe you should just go fist yourself

[Fish]

Did you honestly believe that the WRs they brought in (Lelie, Long, etc.) were going to be some long term solution? There is a reason why those guys were on the market and some are still without a home. There's also a reason why so many of the players released are still without a job as well.

No I don't believe any of the WRs they signed were in the plans long term. But how does that excuse anything? They spent $63M on a QB, and knowingly gave him zero help. We all knew that the old castoffs they signed at WR were worthless. That's the point. They did nothing to help their new "Franchise" QB. And it was obvious to the whole fucking world.

My question is WHY? Why wouldn't they bring in a legit WR when everyone knew what we had was shit? The same could be said for the OLine. There was no reason to stand pat at any position. We were already the least talented team. There's no benefit to bringing in players to "Just get by" till next season. None.

When you're starting at ground level like they were with this team, the only option you have is to build. Form a plan, and lay a foundation. Instead, they brought in a giant metal plate to cover the ground work for a year similar to MODOT's road fixing philosophy and ignored any actual building till next year. And somehow they convinced fans that this is all they could have possibly done this year.

We started the new regime with nothing. Now 80% through the season, and we still have nothing. Still waiting to get started. I'm willing to be patient with the building process if you can show me a single fucking brick of the foundation was laid this year. As it stands, I'm still staring at that giant metal plate wondering what they could have done.

[chiefzilla1501]

The argument should be this:

Why wasn't Todd Haley able to properly evaluate the existing talent on his roster from day one?

Why did it take 15 weeks of the regular season, four weeks of pre-season, and countless weeks of OTA & workouts to realize that his most talented receivers are Bowe, Bradley & Cottam?

Why did it take all this time to put the best offensive line on the field? Albert, Alleman, Niswanger, Smith & Richardson performed incredibly well together but it took 4 months to figure this out? Furthermore, why in the HELL was Richardson cut and stuck on the Practice Squad?

I don't have as many problems with the defensive side of the ball because they lack so much talent that I don't think there's a "gem" in hiding. But I do have issues with Vrabel over Studebaker and Brown over ANYONE.

Todd Haley is supposed to be an offensive mastermind, yet he can't determine his best skill position players or best offensive line unit until after he's been on the job for more than 10 months?

I think this is a problem going forward...

Finally, points we can agree upon.

I agree with everything you've said here. If this is a rebuild, I'm confused as to why Morgan, Studebaker, Charles (previously) weren't seeing more time. And I completely agree that Ryan/O'Connell over Cottam is a WTF of epic proportions.

[ToxSocks]

Maybe you should just go fist yourself

That's wonderful. Great post.

Really though, if you hate this Franchise so much, why are you here? At least Mecca and Hamas have hope for the team and want to see them do well. You on the other hand just seem to be on the rag 24/7. You never have anything positive to say. You just bitch. you never have anything to say until the organization does something you don't like. And then you just bitch some more.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you are so concerned about the Franchise, what do you suggest they do?

We Chiefs fans are holding out hope that this franchise can turn it back around. yes, bad decisions have been made, but there is hope that Pioli can fix this. He failed this year, but it doesn't mean he'll fail next year.

you have no hope for the team. You dont like anyone in the organization except for who? maybe D-Bowe? Maybe Flowers?

Seriously, for your own mental health, find another team that has an owner that you like. A Coach that you like. Because by your logic, this team is doomed till Clark sells it.

Im looking out for you dude. Find another team, it'll make you a happier person.

[Fish]

And please don't bother with the "If you hate this team so much... why...."

It's been said many times... I can criticize the team without hating them. Do you agree with everything your wife or children do? If you disagree, why not find a new wife and child. Well you don't, because that's just not the way it works.

[DaneMcCloud]

That's wonderful. Great post.

Really though, if you hate this Franchise so much, why are you here? At least Mecca and Hamas have hope for the team and want to see them do well. You on the other hand just seem to be on the rag 24/7. You never have anything positive to say. You just bitch. you never have anything to say until the organization does something you don't like. And then you just bitch some more.

LMAO

This HAS to be a joke

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you are so concerned about the Franchise, what do you suggest they do?

Again, are you joking? I've got about 10,000 posts suggesting what they should "do".

Read them.

We Chiefs fans are holding out hope that this franchise can turn it back around. yes, bad decisions have been made, but there is hope that Pioli can fix this. He failed this year, but it doesn't mean he'll fail next year.

He failed miserably this year. I see absolutely no indication that won't occur next year.

you have no hope for the team. You dont like anyone in the organization except for who? maybe D-Bowe? Maybe Flowers?

JFC, are you an n00b? In preseason, I was all over Darryl Harris and Colin Brown. Bowe, Cottam, Charles, Carr, Flowers, Dorsey, Albert, Morgan, Richardson, Leggett and Page ALL SHOULD BE the foundation in which the Chiefs build around.

Considering that many of them haven't seen the field as much as they should have this year, I have my doubts about Haley & Pioli's talent evaluations.

But quite honestly, I think you must have missed 95% of my posts this year.

Seriously, for your own mental health, find another team that has an owner that you like. A Coach that you like. Because by your logic, this team is doomed till Clark sells it.

Gee, thanks.


:facepalm:

[ToxSocks]

And please don't bother with the "If you hate this team so much... why...."

It's been said many times... I can criticize the team without hating them. Do you agree with everything your wife or children do? If you disagree, why not find a new wife and child. Well you don't, because that's just not the way it works.

That's kind of a bad comparison there.

Obviously we all have things to critique about this awful season. Some do it in a peacfull manner with out talking down to others. Some, at least have a positive outlook.

Im just keeping it real, calling it how i see it. Most are not happy with what is going on right now. Most of us know that Pioli and Haley have fucked up. But, there are reasons to believe shit can and will get better.

[RedThat]

More bullshit.

There are 45 new players. The overwhelming majority come from the SAME EXACT SYSTEM, whether it be from Miami, Arizona or New England.

Well, look at the quality of players that the Chiefs got on defense. I blame Pioli for that.

For example, Corey Mays, special teamer, always has been throughout his whole career. Im sure he knows how to play in a 3-4 but he is just not that good at it. Vrabel is pretty much on his last legs, but still a decent role player imo, who knows and understands how to play in a 3-4. And then lets not forget about a broken down injury riddled Mike Brown.

Its important to find players that can play in a scheme, and that are intellegent enough to learn. But also those players have to be good quality players that have the potential to ascend. The Chiefs didn't do that obviously. They got players who are on the decline. but Im sure they still know how to play in a 3-4. Vrabel is an example and nobody can deny that. The Chiefs didn't focus enough on quality.


Again, more bullshit.

The Pittsburgh Steelers ARE the Pittsburgh Steelers for one reason and one reason alone:

Ownership. PERIOD.

They do have a good owner. Like I said to OTWP58, a bad owner is a reason why certain teams are bad. Ownership determines a lot whether a team is going to be either good or bad. I never ever questioned the Steelers ownership EVER! In fact I think Dan Rooney is one of the brightest minds in football, and he has an excellent team of architects, lieutenants, and captains to help build championship caliber football teams. But he is an example of what Im talking about, he has a good understanding and believes that if you stick with a plan and carry it out over time you'll succeed provided that you have the right people to help carry out your plan, that can transcend to success. Thats all Im saying. And that is factual. And it proved to work and it happened. How many coaches have the Steelers had throughout their franchise history? THREE! Thats it!

But thev're always had an excellent front office. Dick Haley, Todd Haleys dad, was a HUGE reason for that dynasty team built in 70's. Both he and Chuck Knoll worked great together and they did the exact same thing and found the right guys that were intellegent to fit into their philosophy and schemes. But they also had great chemistry. Thats what has to exist in a successful organization.

[The Franchise]

I have one question......

When Vrabel went down and Studebaker stepped in.....and had a lights out fucking game.......

Why the fuck did Vrabel immediately go back to his starting job? He's old and broken down and he's not helping this team out physically. Let Studebaker step into the starting role and see if he can repeat his performance. Vrabel is nothing more and should be nothing more than a part-time player right now. The same thing goes for Mike Brown.

[DaneMcCloud]

They do have a good owner. Like I said to OTWP58, a bad owner is a reason why certain teams are bad.

I've said that for YEARS in this forum.

So, you have owners like the Mara's, Rooney's, Krafts, DeBartolo's and Jones' that have multiple Super Bowls.

Then you have a team that hasn't won but three playoff games in 40 years, a team that went 15 straight years without a playoff appearance and a team that has now gone 16 years straight without a playoff win.

If the Mara's, Rooney's Kraft's, et al are "good owners" what does that make the owner of a team that has been virtually winless in the post-season for 40 years?

[DaneMcCloud]

But, there are reasons to believe shit can and will get better.

And what would those reasons be?

And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster".

[ToxSocks]

LMAO

This HAS to be a joke



Again, are you joking? I've got about 10,000 posts suggesting what they should "do".

Read them.



He failed miserably this year. I see absolutely no indication that won't occur next year.



JFC, are you an n00b? In preseason, I was all over Darryl Harris and Colin Brown. Bowe, Cottam, Charles, Carr, Flowers, Dorsey, Albert, Morgan, Richardson, Leggett and Page ALL SHOULD BE the foundation in which the Chiefs build around.

Considering that many of them haven't seen the field as much as they should have this year, I have my doubts about Haley & Pioli's talent evaluations.

But quite honestly, I think you must have missed 95% of my posts this year.



Gee, thanks.


:facepalm:

Im on this forum every day. I see your posts dude.

Yes, Pioli and Haley have fucked up royaly. I agree, the choice to cut Pollard was a dumb move. I agree that Cottam should have been starting the whole time. But how much of that is on Pioli vs Haley? I blame Haley for those moves.

Pioli failed to bring in decent vets. Yes, we are all aware of that. But, lets say he brings in some good vets this offseason. Let's say our ILB's and Ron Edwards, and a few of our O-linemen are moved to second/third string and some quality players are brought in to start. Then would you say we have decent depth?

IMHO, Pioli brought in the Depth/special teamers this past offseason knowing, at worst, they could be soild depth/special teams contributers next season. He hoped to get some starters out of this project. Maybe we did find some starters, maybe we didn't. i don't know if i agree with this plan or not, but, he now knows what he has. for sure. Maybe he is adding the core first, and then adding the stars second. Either way, im willing to give him more then 14 games to determine wether or not Pioli is a failure.

Haley on the other hand, gets a much smaller window.

[DaneMcCloud]

Im on this forum every day. I see your posts dude.

Yes, Pioli and Haley have fucked up royaly. I agree, the choice to cut Pollard was a dumb move. I agree that Cottam should have been starting the whole time. But how much of that is on Pioli vs Haley? I blame Haley for those moves.

Pioli failed to bring in decent vets. Yes, we are all aware of that. But, lets say he brings in some good vets this offseason. Let's say our ILB's and Ron Edwards, and a few of our O-linemen are moved to second/third string and some quality players are brought in to start. Then would you say we have decent depth?

IMHO, Pioli brought in the Depth/special teamers this past offseason knowing, at worst, they could be soild depth/special teams contributers next season. He hoped to get some starters out of this project. Maybe we did find some starters, maybe we didn't. i don't know if i agree with this plan or not, but, he now knows what he has. for sure. Maybe he is adding the core first, and then adding the stars second. Either way, im willing to give him more then 14 games to determine wether or not Pioli is a failure.

Haley on the other hand, gets a much smaller window.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

If, if, if.

That's all I see in your post.

Conjecture.

When Pioli & Haley deserve credit, I'll credit them.

When they don't, I won't.

Bottom line.

[BossChief]

What the hell are you talking about? Wilkerson did shit here. 1 sack in his entire Chiefs career. 11 in 2 years in Tampa. And he didn't have the benefit of Jared Allen in Tampa.

What about the hordes of DL he "improved" in Buffalo and Cincinnati. Umm...who, exactly? Tim "T-Rex" Anderson?

You know what that shows me? That Krumrie is the problem, not the solution.So, Krumrie is the problem in KC because his lines years ago for different teams werent very good? Really?

Who did he fail at doing his job with in KC is my question.
Jimmy Wilkerson was only coached by TK for 2006+2007 and its not his fault they had to dedicate the majority of the playing time at de to Jared Allen and their new first round DP LDE, Tamba Hali, those two were the producers. CP should have re-signed him and penciled him in as the starter after he traded JA.
Tanks improvement year to year here should be credited to his coaching.
Dorsey has been playing out of position since the day he got here, but look at the progress he made from last year to this one and then pat TK on the back and give him credit for it. He should have been a collosal bust as a 5-tec, on paper, I bet 90% of all bbs would have concluded that if polled on it.
You should see dramatic improvement in TJs play next year if my assumption is correct (this is of course if our, hopefuly new, dc doesnt want to bring in all his own assistants)

Shit lets look back at the job he did with one of the better players he was given in Buffalo and how he did without him, shall we?

Aaron Schobels sacks
2004 8
2005 12
2006 14 <-----this was his last year coached by TK
2007 6.5
2008 1
2009 7

Seems he fell of after TK left to me, whats it look like to you?

I honestly cant comment on the other prospects he was given there as I would be talking out of my arse and I try not to do that.

I would fairly say that there really aren't any players that he missed the boat on in KC, so far, as far as getting them to improve their play each year they were under his coaching, can you? (by you, I mean anybody on the forum, not trying to call you out, I value your opinion more than others here to be honest)



The Pittsburgh Steelers ARE the Pittsburgh Steelers for one reason and one reason alone:

THE DRAFT. PERIOD.
fyp

[DaneMcCloud]

fyp

Uh, sorry, but you are WRONG.

[DeezNutz]

Coach Slap Dick is now being defended on this forum. LMAO.

Last year, he was working with nothing but first day talent on the D-line, and he managed to achieve records with this group.

This year, he has yet another 1st rounder, and we've consistently been getting gashed. Yes, the LBs and secondary have to shoulder responsibility, too, but to claim that we've seen jack shit out of Slap Dick is amazing.

[BossChief]

Uh, sorry, but you are WRONG.

The team has consistently drafted well over the last 15-20 years and well before that. It is what allows them to allow FAs to always leave and they just insert the next guy in line that they drafted.

I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way.

About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong?

[Chiefnj2]

I have one question......

When Vrabel went down and Studebaker stepped in.....and had a lights out ****ing game.......

Why the **** did Vrabel immediately go back to his starting job? He's old and broken down and he's not helping this team out physically. Let Studebaker step into the starting role and see if he can repeat his performance. Vrabel is nothing more and should be nothing more than a part-time player right now. The same thing goes for Mike Brown.

That's an excellent question. So is the question about why Richardson wasn't given a chance to play RT earlier. Jwhit or another reporter should ask it at the next press conference rather than dwell on stupid crap that Haley won't answer like "Does Matt Cassel have enough self awareness to criticize himself."

[ToxSocks]

And what would those reasons be?

And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster".

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary.

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season.

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit.

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen.

7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

[PunkinDrublic]

Haley is not going to get fired. All we can do is hope he can take a step back in
the offseason and realize his approach has failed monumentally and make some
coaching changes starting with Clancy and his failed scheme. The dam broke last Sunday
after we were starting to really have our defense exposed against Buffalo.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Coach Slap Dick is now being defended on this forum. LMAO.

Last year, he was working with nothing but first day talent on the D-line, and he managed to achieve records with this group.

This year, he has yet another 1st rounder, and we've consistently been getting gashed. Yes, the LBs and secondary have to shoulder responsibility, too, but to claim that we've seen jack shit out of Slap Dick is amazing.

If Carl Peterson didnt trade Jared Allen (who had his most production under TK) or allow Wilkerson to leave, he might be our DC by now.

flame away, buddy.

[ToxSocks]

That's an excellent question. So is the question about why Richardson wasn't given a chance to play RT earlier. Jwhit or another reporter should ask it at the next press conference rather than dwell on stupid crap that Haley won't answer like "Does Matt Cassel have enough self awareness to criticize himself."

Studebaker found himself in the right place, at the right time. Now he's a hero? Come on guys. He has no pass rush moves yet. He gets pushed back at the LOS.

If he were starting, then people would find ways to bitch about him too. He didn't look any better out there than Vrabel, but at least Vrabel can read the "O"

Now, im excited about Studebaker, don't get me wrong. I have hopes for him and i do think he is a good young talent. But he has not been that great. And Richardson got destroyed at RT in the preseason. It was obvious he had a long ways to go.

[DeezNutz]

If Carl Peterson didnt trade Jared Allen (who had his most production under TK) or allow Wilkerson to leave, he might be our DC by now.

flame away, buddy.

You really think Slap Dick "coached up" Jared Allen?

Tell me why this talented coach got so little out of so much last year. 4 day-one picks, and they couldn't stop the run or rush the passer. Please defend this.

[DaneMcCloud]

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary.

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season.

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit.

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen.

7. Chris Chambers. Now we a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

1. Um you DO realize that Flowers, Carr, Charles Studebaker, etc. were already on the squad, right?

2. Hali is NO surprise: He is what he's ALWAYS been: An average pass rusher and completely useless against the run.

3. Haley's a completely bumblefuck when it comes to evaluating the offensive line. Rudy Niswanger? Are you fucking kidding me? Wade Smith is 10x the center as Niswanger. Play Nsukwe out of position at Right Tackle was a good thing? Starting O'C over Richardson was a good thing? JFC.

4. Chris Chambers is 31 years old and he'll be 32 to start the season. Who knows if he'll chose to return but firstly, he's not a long term solution and secondly, the wheels could fall off at any second. Plus, he's got a serious domestic situation to deal with.

I don't see anything here that you've stated that makes me believe that Todd Haley is a competent coach worthy of returning.

[DaneMcCloud]

The team has consistently drafted well over the last 15-20 years and well before that. It is what allows them to allow FAs to always leave and they just insert the next guy in line that they drafted.

I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way.

About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong?

JFC.

The "reason" that the Steelers are successful and have been successful for half a century is due to the ownership.

Don't you understand that?

They've had several GM's and only three coaches since the 70's. They're not successful because they've stuck with those coaches, they're successful because success starts from the top. The Rooneys have hired the right people for four decades.

That isn't an accident.

[DaneMcCloud]

Studebaker found himself in the right place, at the right time. Now he's a hero? Come on guys. He has no pass rush moves yet. He gets pushed back at the LOS.


He's a 6th rounder from a Division III school. On a shit team like the Chiefs, who have absolutely no playoff hopes and whose primary mission SHOULD BE to find and build a youthful core of players, Mike Vrabel should be no where near the field except in the event of injury.

That's what is SO damn confusing about the direction of the current Chiefs:

There IS no direction.

PERIOD.

[BossChief]

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary. I agree

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season. I agree

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit. I dont think any of our current LBers end up as longterm starters here except Hali. We need three starting linebackers

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom. after the first sentence, I thought you were about to go full retard...glad you didnt, I somewhat agree with your statement there except the first sentence.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line. this really isnt a credit to Haley though, IMHO Charles is excelling in spite of Haley so far, not because of him.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen. Starting to fucking jel? FUCK NO THEY ARENT! Albert is the only linemen that has improved at all all year. Just because we just played the Borwns and Bills, doesnt mean "the line is jelling"
7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core Chris Chambers is old and has another year, or MAYBE 2 if we are lucky, and his attitude doesnt go into the shitter like it has at previous teams after a good first year.

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

I see where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you are looking for reasons to be positive instead of looking at it fully objectively. Maybe Im of base and I am letting the losing effect my ability to be objective because I am starting to presume the worst because that is what we have had to deal with recently.

I hope we made the right choices and that a lot of this first year is chalked up to a total flush of a season to begin with in retrospect a couple years from now.

time will tell

[ToxSocks]

1. Um you DO realize that Flowers, Carr, Charles Studebaker, etc. were already on the squad, right?

2. Hali is NO surprise: He is what he's ALWAYS been: An average pass rusher and completely useless against the run.

3. Haley's a completely bumble**** when it comes to evaluating the offensive line. Rudy Niswanger? Are you ****ing kidding me? Wade Smith is 10x the center as Niswanger. Play Nsukwe out of position at Right Tackle was a good thing? Starting O'C over Richardson was a good thing? JFC.

4. Chris Chambers is 31 years old and he'll be 32 to start the season. Who knows if he'll chose to return but firstly, he's not a long term solution and secondly, the wheels could fall off at any second. Plus, he's got a serious domestic situation to deal with.

I don't see anything here that you've stated that makes me believe that Todd Haley is a competent coach worthy of returning.


1. Just because they were on the squad, doesn't mean they haven't improved. What did JC prove last season? What did Studebaker do last season? And the question wasn't whether or not there was pre-existing talent, the question was if there was anything to be positive about. I told you, yet you continue to be negative.

2. Hali is a surprise. Did you honestly believe he would see success transitioning into the 3-4? Really? No one here did. Obviously he has his weaknesses. BUT, like i said, we can win with him. As i said, he is no pro-bowler, but TH will not be the reason we loose games.

3. Rudy has been improving. We have plenty of potential RG's right now. At the time we needed a RT. Ndukwe was asked to fill that need. he failed at it. Why start him at RG when we have better RG prospects? And do you seriously not remember how bad Richardson was? He was awful, and then after 1 game against the Browns he is better than O'C? Come on man, at least let's see him play another start before declaring him the best RT on the team.

4. So what if he is turning 32. The dude can play. He is a stop gap, but a good one. We can win with him. He has opened things up for this offense and there is plenty of reason to believe that he can carry that over. He is a playmaker, and we will ride him till his wheels fall off, same way we did Kennison. You're choosing to look at the glass half emptey. That's on you, dude.

[Coogs]

If Carl Peterson didnt trade Jared Allen (who had his most production under TK)

Better check these stats out. He still has 2 games left this season.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaredallen/profile?id=ALL454745

[ChiefUp]

come on you cant fire Haley you just got ride of Herm after 3 years of crap then yas give the team to Haley who had a team of no talent hacks to start with and now with one more win then we would of had under Herm this year you guys want to scrap him and start all over I mean how long do yas want to be rebuilding