Stanford Routt Will Visit Chiefs Today

[Hydrae]

Petro has said a couple of times today that he's hearing Carr is asking for SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the Chiefs gave Flowers...

So if the Chiefs do sign him for that kind of money, how do you think Flowers will feel about his current contract? We can argue all day about which one is better but the fact is that Flowers has always been the #1 CB and I am sure would not be happy to find his second being paid more.

[htismaqe]

It just sickens me to think that when you're 60 mil under the cap, have no (or have never shown) any intentions of getting anywhere near the top of the cap, you'd let a stud player like Carr go in favor for a significantly lesser player in Routt because he's cheaper.

We've officially become the Royals if this happens.

No shit.

[Okie_Apparition]

Chiefs re-sign standout linebacker Tamba Hali to five-year pact

The Kansas City Chiefs locked up talented outside linebacker Tamba Hali with a huge five-year contract worth $60 million, with $35 million guaranteed. Hali, 27 and entering his sixth season, led the AFC with 14.5 sacks in 2010 and has 41.5 career sacks since being taken in the first round of the 2006 draft His guaranteed money exceeds several big-name free agent contracts recently signed, more than Eagles CB Nnamdi Asomugha ($25 million) or Panthers DE Charles Johnson ($30 million).

-- I think Hali is the only big name CHief signed since the new CBA
I don't think Carr deserves more, but it is a new league year soon & prices do rise

[htismaqe]

So if the Chiefs do sign him for that kind of money, how do you think Flowers will feel about his current contract? We can argue all day about which one is better but the fact is that Flowers has always been the #1 CB and I am sure would not be happy to find his second being paid more.

How is Flowers the #1 CB? We play "left/right".

[The Franchise]

So if the Chiefs do sign him for that kind of money, how do you think Flowers will feel about his current contract? We can argue all day about which one is better but the fact is that Flowers has always been the #1 CB and I am sure would not be happy to find his second being paid more.

Prices increase every season. And like htismaqe said...we don't have #1 and #2 CBs.....we have left and right.

[suds79]

Prices increase every season. And like htismaqe said...we don't have #1 and #2 CBs.....we have left and right.

Yup.

So what if Brandon Carr is one of or the highest paid CB. Big deal. You know how long that'll last? Until next year when the next big name CB is a FA.

That's how it goes.

[The Franchise]

We might as well not try if we're worried about signing the highest paid players at their position.

Honestly....it's not my money....so I don't give a fuck. Pay Carr and Bowe.

[Hydrae]

Yup.

So what if Brandon Carr is one of or the highest paid CB. Big deal. You know how long that'll last? Until next year when the next big name CB is a FA.

That's how it goes.

My question though is how do you think Flowers would feel about Carr being paid "significantly more?" Is this not something that Pioli has to consider when working on offers is how it may impact the locker room?

I understand the left/right rather than #1/#2 for our CBs but Flowers has been considered our best CB since he was drafted basically. How would you feel if your co-worker was paid much more than you to do the same job? Would that be a motivating or de-motivating factor for you?

[The Franchise]

My question though is how do you think Flowers would feel about Carr being paid "significantly more?" Is this not something that Pioli has to consider when working on offers is how it may impact the locker room?

I understand the left/right rather than #1/#2 for our CBs but Flowers has been considered our best CB since he was drafted basically. How would you feel if your co-worker was paid much more than you to do the same job? Would that be a motivating or de-motivating factor for you?

WHO. GIVES. A. FUCK.

Flowers is either going to want a new contract or he's not. We're never going to get anywhere in this league if we worry about other players on the team being jealous about their teammates contracts.

[Okie_Apparition]

Carr going to another team & being the big dog in the secondary is being tossed aside way too easily

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

How is Flowers the #1 CB? We play "left/right".

Just stop how many times did you see carr on the number 1 wr?

[BigMeatballDave]

I'd offer Carr the same contract Flowers has.

[the Talking Can]

It just sickens me to think that when you're 60 mil under the cap, have no (or have never shown) any intentions of getting anywhere near the top of the cap, you'd let a stud player like Carr go in favor for a significantly lesser player in Routt because he's cheaper.

We've officially become the Royals if this happens.

and there is no defense for it

Clark, as I've been told, is not cheap..he's been strategically saving $30 mill a year and spending nothing in FA in order to sign our own players...

but now we're going to let a top young QB in his prime walk? while keeping Cassel who hasn't earned a god damn penny of his contract?

yeah...the verdict will be in if this happens

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

I'd offer Carr the same contract Flowers has.

This-but on the open market someone is gonna give him more then flowers.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

This is all on Pioli before 2011 started if he offered carr 5Y 35M i bet carr takes that deal.

[Micjones]

I'd offer Carr the same contract Flowers has.

As would I.

[Chiefnj2]

Just stop how many times did you see carr on the number 1 wr?

After giving up 5 TDs in the first 3 weeks of the season, I can't figure out why offenses would want to put their #1 WRs against Flowers.

[htismaqe]

Just stop how many times did you see carr on the number 1 wr?

Teams purposefully avoided him.

Kevin Harlan said AGAIN today that Ryan Fitzpatrick said BRANDON CARR is the Chiefs CB to avoid.

So give it up.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Teams purposefully avoided him.

Kevin Harlan said AGAIN today that Ryan Fitzpatrick said BRANDON CARR is the Chiefs CB to avoid.

So give it up.

Carr is the next Larry brown.

[htismaqe]

Carr is the next Larry brown.

ROFL

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

ROFL

If carr walks to be the number 1 corner somewhere else he will be the next Larry Brown.He could have a nice career in KC as the number 2 corner.

[htismaqe]

If carr walks to be the number 1 corner somewhere else he will be the next Larry Brown.He could have a nice career in KC as the number 2 corner.

LMAO

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

LMAO

I don't know what is so funny.

[FAX]

I think we should initiate "Plan Twitter" on this deal.

FAX

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Petro has said a couple of times today that he's hearing Carr is asking for SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the Chiefs gave Flowers...

That's because he knows he's worth it. He's better than Flowers, IMO.

[ModSocks]

I think we should initiate "Plan Twitter" on this deal.

FAX

Fax, I'm putting you in charge.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Carr is the next Larry brown.

ROFL That doesn't even make any sense.

[BossChief]

Would that make him the highest paid DB in the league?

Remember the Carr tweet regarding asking for to much? "Does that sound like something i'd do?" (something like that anyway).

Chiefsandosfan...do us all a favor PLEASE.

Retweet Carrs tweet from back then when he said he wasn't the type of person to do that type of thing (asking for a ridiculous contract) and ask if it's true that he is asking for significantly more than Flowers.

You seem to be "on the radar" of a few of the guys in the NFL...tweet them, too.

I'm sure we would all like to know if the report htis is talking about is true.

[FAX]

Fax, I'm putting you in charge.

Okie dokie.

Plan Twitter is underway.

We shall take that bridge.

FAX

[whoman69]

Hopefully this is just the Chiefs putting a little leverage on Carr. There is no way the Chiefs should let him walk with $63 million unused cap space.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Hopefully this is just the Chiefs putting a little leverage on Carr. There is no way the Chiefs should let him walk with $63 million unused cap space.

And for a guy that had 17 PIs last year.

[BossChief]

Teams purposefully avoided Carr

You keep saying this, but it's incorrect.

They were targeted equally according to every advanced stats website out there, even with Flowers covering the opposing teams top receiver most of the time.

[FAX]

Let's think about Crennel for a minute.

Do we really believe that Crennel would like to see Carr walk? And replace him with Peter PI? I think not.

So ... if the worst happens and the sky falls and we wind up with this ex-Faider, we will know beyond any doubt who's calling the personnel shots and who's picking up candy wrappers.

FAX

[mcaj22]

Carr is the next Larry brown.



LOL

[The Bad Guy]

I don't know what is so funny.

Your football takes.

That's what's so funny.

[Chiefnj2]

Some dumb ass arguments going on. They are both very good corners. Carr probably deals with speed a little better. Flowers is the better tackler in run support. Who is better? Who gives a crap. You lose either one, you lose a very good player and have an immediate need for a replacement.

[The Bad Guy]

Some dumb ass arguments going on. They are both very good corners. Carr probably deals with speed a little better. Flowers is the better tackler in run support. Who is better? Who gives a crap. You lose either one, you lose a very good player and have an immediate need for a replacement.

Truth.

[BigMeatballDave]

This-but on the open market someone is gonna give him more then flowers.

Most likely, yes. I suppose it depends on how much he wants to stay.

[stonedstooge]

Does the same agent represent Bowe and Carr?

[FAX]

Most likely, yes. I suppose it depends on how much he wants to stay.

Never fear, Mr. Dave. Plan Twitter is underway.

FAX

[BossChief]

Your football takes.

That's what's so funny.

Him saying Carr is Larry brown is no more foolish than you saying Matt Cassel is a legit NFL MVP candidate (which you said more than once) or me saying we could have kept the Lions game close if Charles and Berry were healthy.

We all say some off the wall shit from time to time.

Chiefsandos just does it more than most

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Your football takes.

That's what's so funny.

Did your insider tell you this?

[The Franchise]

Did your insider tell you this?

Did you read it on Twitter?

[The Bad Guy]

Did your insider tell you this?

No, my 2 year old told me you know nothing.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

No, my 2 year old told me you know nothing.

Word.

[The Franchise]

No, my 2 year old told me you know nothing.

Your two year old has a Twitter account?

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Dumb.

[BossChief]

No, my 2 year old told me you know nothing.

This is equal in "lameness" to the Larry Brown comment.

[mcaj22]

has there been any information on how the actual Routt visit went with the Chiefs?

[suds79]

has there been any information on how the actual Routt visit went with the Chiefs?

You mean "is going". He's spending a 2nd day with them today.

[The Bad Guy]

Boss, please point to a time where I ever said Matt Cassel ever was an NFL MVP candidate. I gave Cassel credit 2 years ago when he played well, but I generally hate him and have never, ever said he deserves to be considered for MVP. Ever.

And no, comparing Larry Brown to Brandon Carr is not even remotely close. Larry Brown had one good game and transformed that into millions. Carr has been a top notch corner in this league for 2 years now.

[The Bad Guy]

You mean "is going". He's spending a 2nd day with them today.

I have a hard time believing that they would sign Routt before they exhaust all avenues with Carr. There's still about 28 days left until FA hits.

[bevischief]

has there been any information on how the actual Routt visit went with the Chiefs?

He is looking at Houses at Loch Lloyd.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Aaron Wilson@RavensInsiderReply

Stanford Routt wrapped up second day of visiting the Chiefs today, per a league source. Remains in serious talks with the Bills.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Aaron Wilson@RavensInsiderReply

Stanford Routt wrapped up second day of visiting the Chiefs today, per a league source. Remains in serious talks with the Bills.

Good..go to Buffalo!

[htismaqe]

You keep saying this, but it's incorrect.

They were targeted equally according to every advanced stats website out there, even with Flowers covering the opposing teams top receiver most of the time.

I didn't say it.

Ryan Fitzpatrick did.

Take it up with him.

[BossChief]

Here's the first one I found.

Shit, this was the first response of the thread about the Peter king article.

You were totally I'm love with Cassel.

He absolutely should be in the discussion. He's not the top candidate but in the definition of MVP, he's definitely deserving of the praise.

If you'd like me to continue, I can probably give you a bunch more...but it takes a little while to search from my phone.

Like I said, we all say dumb things at times.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Here's the first one I found.

Shit, this was the first response of the thread about the Peter king article.

You were totally I'm love with Cassel.



If you'd like me to continue, I can probably give you a bunch more...but it takes a little while to search from my phone.

Like I said, we all say dumb things at times.


LMAOLMAO

[The Bad Guy]

Here's the first one I found.

Shit, this was the first response of the thread about the Peter king article.

You were totally I'm love with Cassel.



If you'd like me to continue, I can probably give you a bunch more...but it takes a little while to search from my phone.

Like I said, we all say dumb things at times.

At the time it was written, it was from either after the Seattle or Tennesse game, at which time he was sitting on 27 TDs to 5 INTs. He was absolutely in the MVP discussion at that point. He was never winning the award, but he was in the discussion.

I didn't remember saying that, but at the time, it wasn't completely unfounded. Saying Brandon Carr is Larry Brown is completely absurd based simply on the fact that Brown was never close to Carr's level.

[The Bad Guy]

Or it was after Croyle played San Diego.

Cassel was playing at an MVP level during that stretch of games in 2010. He's a garbage QB, but at that time he was playing like that.

It was also the only time I said that. I've hated Cassel for a long time.

[BossChief]

ROFL

So, it went from

"Boss, please point to a time where I ever said Matt Cassel ever was an NFL MVP candidate. I gave Cassel credit 2 years ago when he played well, but I generally hate him and have never, ever said he deserves to be considered for MVP. Ever"

To

"At the time it was true" (it was after the Rams game)

Please.

You felt so strongly about it that you were the first one to reply to the article with the opinion that he was a LEGIT MVP CANDIDATE.

It wasn't the only time you said it, either. Im not gonna waste more time linking posts to further embarrass you, but there are lots and lots of posts of yours that were drooling over Cassels junk.

Like I said, we all say dumb shit from time to time, yourself included.

[saphojunkie]

I didn't say it.

Ryan Fitzpatrick did.

Take it up with him.

I heard Kevin Harlan talking about it also. He said he was really surprised to hear a lot of people saying it. This was right after we signed Flowers to an extension.

[mcaj22]

we spent not one but two days courting this bum? Is this team serious right now lol

[The Bad Guy]

ROFL

So, it went from

"Boss, please point to a time where I ever said Matt Cassel ever was an NFL MVP candidate. I gave Cassel credit 2 years ago when he played well, but I generally hate him and have never, ever said he deserves to be considered for MVP. Ever"

To

"At the time it was true" (it was after the Rams game)

Please.

You felt so strongly about it that you were the first one to reply to the article with the opinion that he was a LEGIT MVP CANDIDATE.

It wasn't the only time you said it, either. Im not gonna waste more time linking posts to further embarrass you, but there are lots and lots of posts of yours that were drooling over Cassels junk.

Like I said, we all say dumb shit from time to time, yourself included.

So he wasn't a legit candidate after the Rams game?

Spare me the nonsense. I didn't remember saying it, but he was in the discussion. It wasn't a far fetched thing to say at the time it was said and in that context.

Embarrass me? Please.

I've said plenty of dumb shit on this board. I wanted Haley to get an extension after the Chargers game. It was a knee-jerk reaction.

Saying Brandon Carr is Larry Brown is not a knee jerk reaction.

[BossChief]

I also often wonder how a guy that's supposed to be a school teacher is so angry so much of the time and finds ways to post on ChiefsPlanet during school hours.

Maybe I have him mixed up with someone else...

[The Bad Guy]

I also often wonder how a guy that's supposed to be a school teacher is so angry so much of the time and finds ways to post on ChiefsPlanet during school hours.

Maybe I have him mixed up with someone else...

How am I angry in this context? My school day ends at 2.

I call things like I see them. How I act on an internet message board has no bearing on how well I can do my job.

[htismaqe]

Let's not this Matt Cassel-related pissing match distract from the fact that the comparison of Brandon Carr to Larry Brown is borderline RETARDED.

[BossChief]

So he wasn't a legit candidate after the Rams game?

Spare me the nonsense. I didn't remember saying it, but he was in the discussion. It wasn't a far fetched thing to say at the time it was said and in that context.

Embarrass me? Please.

I've said plenty of dumb shit on this board. I wanted Haley to get an extension after the Chargers game. It was a knee-jerk reaction.

Saying Brandon Carr is Larry Brown is not a knee jerk reaction.

The thread went 100 replies and you were the only one defending Cassel as an MVP candidate.

Everyone else pretty much laughed it off.

That's just one thread. There were more that I didnt chose to use.

We all say dumb shit. I wanted Clausen at 5 and to a certain degree lead that charge. Maybe Stanzi ends up nothing and I have to eat the fact that I would have spent a second rounder on him. Maybe Moeaki never plays another full NFL season and was a dumb pick in the third round.

It happens.

[-King-]

Wow you leave at 2 and you only work 180 days a year? What an easy job...


































































































http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldp3yyI6tu1qb9a2wo1_500.png

[BossChief]

How am I angry in this context? My school day ends at 2.

I call things like I see them. How I act on an internet message board has no bearing on how well I can do my job.

I'm just fippin ya a little shit, is all. Same as you've done to me numerous times and will probably continue to do. Just wanted to add a dies of humility is all.

The Larry Brown comment was full retard.

[Titty Meat]

Brandon Carr is Larry Brown? LOL. Stick to Twitter bruh.

[The Bad Guy]

Wow you leave at 2 and you only work 180 days a year? What an easy job...


































































































http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldp3yyI6tu1qb9a2wo1_500.png

Ha. Kids leave at 2. I stay until 2:30 if I'm caught up. If not, it's later or I work from home. Start at 7 though. Some days earlier than that if I have to travel to different buildings.

[Bump]

this better not be some tactic to use to screw over Carr. The man did his job and excelled at it, he earned a paycheck and we better be the ones to give it to him.

[Sofa King]

this better not be some tactic to use to screw over Carr. The man did his job and excelled at it, he earned a paycheck and we better be the ones to give it to him.

Of course it is.

[WhiteWhale]

When he played across from Asomughua, PFF rated him extremely well.

Wrong. You don't have access to PFF do you? A negative rating is BAD. He's never had a positive grade. Ever.

That holds more water than your opinion.

Since you just kinda made that up, no it doesn't. In 2010 his rating was -9.3 and he was ranked 89th in the nfl. He does usually notch a positive coverage grade, which was 1.5 in 2010 (34th). He had a -7.5 rating in 2009, which was 94th in the NFL. His best season was 2011 when Aso was in philly. He still had a negative grade of -6.7 which was 89th in the league. My opinion is based on empirical evidence. It's not just a baseless opinion.

Also, if you want to look at touchdowns given up as some tool...take a look at Flowers...iirc he gave up 1 less touchdown on the year than Routt.

True, but he had 12 fewer penalties.

Is he garbage?

Compared to Carr? Yes.

As far as the penalty thing...go to a Raider board and ask around about the penalties. I've heard over and over that refs threw phantom penalties on he and the rest of the raiders all year. Not used if thats credible or not, but it is a widespread opinion.

Yeah yeah, I know Raider fans think the refs are out to get them. This isn't new. They say that EVERY YEAR. Typical Raider-fan excuse making.

When the Raiders brought in the guy from GB, he said his first order of business was to get rid of the contracts that were "out of whack"

Routts contract was the dumbest deal I've ever seen signed in the NFL.

Iirc, it averaged something like 15 million per year.

Yeah, what the hell were they thinking?

My guess was his agents idea of a restructure was somewhere around 10 and the Raiders decided to cleanly part ways...who knows, maybe all these meetings are to find his true market value and that he intends to return to Oakland.

Who knows?

We can all agree he was incredibly overpaid for being an average (at best) CB.

Stats aren't everything.

Matt Cassel had 27 touchdown passes to 7 picks....does that mean he is as good as Tom Brady?

**** no.

As I mentioned before, Flowers gave up a lot of scores too and he is one of the best corners in football.

It happens.

Yeah, but when it happens year after year that's a trend. You want to talk PFF? Flowers was graded 9th in coverage (8.0) and 5th overall. Comparing him to Routt is an insult.

Nobody here wants us to sign Routt and let Carr walk...I don't think so anyway.

All I'm saying is that Routt isn't as bad as you think he is and apperently a lot of NFL teams agree with me because just about every team with a need at corner is seemingly interested in his services...regardless of your stats.

Great. Deangelo Hall gets tons of work too, but you won't convince me that he's good. I'd never want him on our team.

Look, from what little time I've been here you are one of the guys I respect. Even when we disagree you're always logical when asserting your opinion. I disagree with you on Routt. He's average at best in my eyes. He's an above average cover guy, but he lacks discipline and it costs his team. He's not an awful plan B, but anyone who thinks he and Carr is a wash is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise next season. Arenas grades out better than Routt.

[DBOSHO]

Even though carr is better than routt,

Bowe+routt> carr

[WhiteWhale]

Even though carr is better than routt,

Bowe+routt> carr

Yeah, perhaps.

Though I could argue that Carr+Colston > Bowe... and with all the FA's the Saints have there's a very good chance he'll be on the market.

Really though it's a straw man because we have plenty of cash to bring both back. I'd rather just keep Bowe and Carr.

[htismaqe]

Even though carr is better than routt,

Bowe+routt> carr

That shouldn't even come into play.

Bowe + Carr = affordable

Bowe + Carr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything involving Stanford fucking Routt

[Deberg_1990]

Its easier to find a decent CB than a top tier WR. Even if you draft a top WR, most take 2 or 3 seasons to fully develop.

[jd1020]

Its easier to find a decent CB than a top tier WR. Even if you draft a top WR, most take 2 or 3 seasons to fully develop.

:hmmm:

Carr is decent but Bowe is a top WR? How does that make any sense?

[Deberg_1990]

:hmmm:

Carr is decent but Bowe is a top WR? How does that make any sense?

Didnt mean it as Carr was just decent or average. I meant his replacement could be.

and yes i believe Bowe is a top tier WR. just my opinion.

[jd1020]

Didnt mean it as Carr was just decent or average. I meant his replacement could be.

So why are we comparing decent to top tier?

If they are both top tier, wouldn't you want at least another top tier player to replace them?

If its top tier vs top tier I'll argue you'll have a harder time finding a top tier CB than a top tier WR, considering a good QB makes most any WR top tier.

[durtyrute]

It won't be viewed as leverage, this is just going to piss Carr off. This is so fucking stupid. He as already said that he wants to stay, JUST FUCKING PAY HIM.

[jd1020]

It won't be viewed as leverage, this is just going to piss Carr off. This is so ****ing stupid. He as already said that he wants to stay, JUST ****ING PAY HIM.

They can't yet?

[htismaqe]

So why are we comparing decent to top tier?

If they are both top tier, wouldn't you want at least another top tier player to replace them?

If its top tier vs top tier I'll argue you'll have a harder time finding a top tier CB than a top tier WR, considering a good QB makes most any WR top tier.

Yeppers.

[durtyrute]

They can't yet?

That's cool if they can't do it now, but don't bring this bozo in. Just talk to Carr and tell him "we'll lock you up as soon as we are able to". He said he wants to stay. If you have to overpay to keep him here, DO IT.

[htismaqe]

Just heard 810 talking about Carr...Soren and his guest (not sure who it is yet) have heard Carr is looking for $14-$16M a year.

[stonedstooge]

Just heard 810 talking about Carr...Soren and his guest (not sure who it is yet) have heard Carr is looking for $14-$16M a year.

Is that out of line?

[ModSocks]

Just heard 810 talking about Carr...Soren and his guest (not sure who it is yet) have heard Carr is looking for $14-$16M a year.

Yeah ****ing right.

If that were true (which I highly doubt) then he can get to steppin'.

Carr is good, but not once in a generation good.

[stonedstooge]

Teams must have loads of money to spend on current players since the owners protected themselves from themselves when it comes to signing first round draft pics.

[Chiefnj2]

Just heard 810 talking about Carr...Soren and his guest (not sure who it is yet) have heard Carr is looking for $14-$16M a year.

Revis' last contract averaged 11.5 a year.

Tag, you're it.

[htismaqe]

Revis' last contract averaged 11.5 a year.

Tag, you're it.

Routt's contract with the Raiders averaged 10.5 a year.

There's all kinds of examples out there.

[stonedstooge]

Just heard 810 talking about Carr...Soren and his guest (not sure who it is yet) have heard Carr is looking for $14-$16M a year.

Pioli leak that out for us so we make Carr out to be the bad guy?

[ModSocks]

Pioli leak that out for us so we make Carr out to be the bad guy?

Possibly, or it could be KC media throwing shit at the wall.

It wouldn't work out in Pioli's favor if he floats a 14-16M rumor and then Carr goes and signs with Dallas for 9M.

[htismaqe]

Possibly, or it could be KC media throwing shit at the wall.

It wouldn't work out in Pioli's favor if he floats a 14-16M rumor and then Carr goes and signs with Dallas for 9M.

It's highly unlikely Carr will get less than Flowers got, IMO.

[jd1020]

It's highly unlikely Carr will get less than Flowers got, IMO.

9M would be 1M more than Flowers...

[ModSocks]

It's highly unlikely Carr will get less than Flowers got, IMO.

eh.

I think it'll likely be a tad higher than what Flowers got just because of inflation. IMO, they are on the same tier, just slightly different skill sets.

I think Carr will probably get more than Flowers, just not much more. Surely not 14-16m a year more.

[Rausch]

It's highly unlikely Carr will get less than Flowers got, IMO.

Pay him - move on...

[jd1020]

eh.

I think it'll likely be a tad higher than what Flowers got just because of inflation. IMO, they are on the same tier, just slightly different skill sets.

I think Carr will probably get more than Flowers, just not much more. Surely not 14-16m a year more.

IMO, if he wants more than Flowers on a annual scale then I'd give him less years.

[Chiefnj2]

Routt's contract with the Raiders averaged 10.5 a year.

There's all kinds of examples out there.

A pass rush is the best defense against today's top passers. Having 2 great corners is a luxury. I'd rather sign Meyers (C) and Soliai (NT) with that money, plus a little extra.

[Rausch]

So let me get this straight.

Backup QB who has never played a down for you = $60 million contract no questions asked.

Stud CB who has played since his rookie year = Play hard ball.

That's how I see it...

[ModSocks]

IMO, if he wants more than Flowers on a annual scale then I'd give him less years.

How many years did Flowers get? 5?

If he wants more money, then I would just give him a big signing bonus and front load his contract.

[jd1020]

How many years did Flowers get? 5?

If he wants more money, then I would just give him a big signing bonus and front load his contract.

6 for 49M.

[BossChief]

12 would be my cut off point.

Even that is pushing it IMO.

Just because we have money to spend, doesn't mean we have to go full retard with that cash.

There are plenty of good corners that will fill our #2 spot that aren't demanding that kind of money.

[jd1020]

12 would be my cut off point.

Even that is pushing it IMO.

Just because we have money to spend, doesn't mean we have to go full retard with that cash.

There are plenty of good corners that will fill our #2 spot that aren't demanding that kind of money.

I wouldn't go a penny over 10.

Carr is not Darelle Revis.

[Rausch]

12 would be my cut off point.

Even that is pushing it IMO.

Just because we have money to spend, doesn't mean we have to go full retard with that cash.

There are plenty of good corners that will fill our #2 spot that aren't demanding that kind of money.

After over a decade we finally have a Hasty/Carter combo that we can leave on an island and not worry about.

Only this time instead of hating each other off the field they're best friends. These guys fucking love working together and hang out OFF the field.

And they don't snort blow and don't sell weed out of stolen cars.

Why split this pair up? They've come up with each other, know each other, and frankly both are better with the other guy on the other side.

Play whatever games you have to play but keep this pair...

[BossChief]

I don't care about Revis' contract.

We have to try to make a statement that if you are drafted here and work hard to get to an elite level that KC will reward that.

I'd be willing to go over the amount of Flowers deal by a little to keep him, but 14+ would be fucking retarded.

If we pay him 14, Albert is gonna ask for a similar figure next year and Flowers will probably be very pissed.

I have a very hard time believing that Carr would be asking for that much.

Can someone twitter his agent or Carr himself to try and get a feel if this is accurate or just radio guys looking for listeners..

[Rausch]

I don't care about Revis' contract.

We have to try to make a statement that if you are drafted here and work hard to get to an elite level that KC will reward that.

This...

[jd1020]

This...

Not that...

Overpaying players is how you end up like the Rams. Strapped for cash and with the #2 pick in the draft.

[BossChief]

After over a decade we finally have a Hasty/Carter combo that we can leave on an island and not worry about.

Only this time instead of hating each other off the field they're best friends. These guys fucking love working together and hang out OFF the field.

And they don't snort blow and don't sell weed out of stolen cars.

Why split this pair up? They've come up with each other, know each other, and frankly both are better with the other guy on the other side.

Play whatever games you have to play but keep this pair...

No fucking chance I'd pay Carr 14 million per season to be our second corner.

Are you saying you would?

Fuck that

[Dr. Gigglepants]

It's highly unlikely Carr will get less than Flowers got, IMO.

Would Flowers get his feelers hurt if that was the case? Would he demand a new contract if the 'perceived' number 2 corner got a better deal than him? I wonder if this is part of the hold up.
Posted via Mobile Device

[htismaqe]

6 for 49M.

Flowers got 5 years, $50M.

[htismaqe]

A pass rush is the best defense against today's top passers. Having 2 great corners is a luxury. I'd rather sign Meyers (C) and Soliai (NT) with that money, plus a little extra.

We can afford all 3.

And still sign 3 more.

[the Talking Can]

if Carr was asking for that, it's because he's pissed at something and wants out


and anyways we have a franchise QB, so defense isn't as important to us as some other teams...

[ModSocks]

No one is going to pay Carr 4+ Million a year MORE than Revis.

Who ever decides he's worth that can have him.

He's not THAT good, and even with contracts inflating every year, his play still doesn't justify that kind of contract. That would be Al Davis stupid.

1-2M more than Flowers per year is acceptable IMO.

[htismaqe]

I wouldn't go a penny over 10.

Carr is not Darelle Revis.

Revis contract is already nearing 2 years old and we're now under a new CBA.

[The Bad Guy]

Carr shouldn't get anything more than 5 in the 50-55 range.

Paying him 14-16 is lunacy.

[htismaqe]

No one is going to pay Carr 4+ Million a year MORE than Revis.

Who ever decides he's worth that can have him.

He's not THAT good, and even with contracts inflating every year, his play still doesn't justify that kind of contract. That would be Al Davis stupid.

1-2M more than Flowers per year is acceptable IMO.

I think some people are thinking I WANT to pay him $14M per.

I don't.

But there's also ZERO reason we can't. We could sign him AND a half dozen free agents. We have nearly HALF the cap to spend.

However, Carr is easily worth $1-2M more than Flowers simply because of circumstances. If that hurts Flowers' ego, too bad. He didn't HAVE to sign when he did.

[jd1020]

Flowers got 5 years, $50M.

Then rotoworld has their shit ****ed up...

Brandon Flowers

Defensive Back

9/16/2011: Signed a six-year, $49.35 million contract. The deal contains $22 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus. $11 million of Flowers' guaranteed money is guaranteed for both skill and injury, although the other $11 million is guaranteed solely for injury. Another $1.25 million is available through escalators applicable to the final year. Flowers is eligible for annual $250,000 workout bonuses in seasons two through six. 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $7.35 million, 2014: $5.25 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus), 2015: $6.25 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus), 2016: $6.5 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus), 2017: Free Agent

Flowers signed his new contract in the final year of his rookie contract and got a 5 year extension. The contract itself is for 6 years.

[Rausch]

No ****ing chance I'd pay Carr 14 million per season to be our second corner.

Are you saying you would?

**** that

If he was our 2nd corner, no...

[htismaqe]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/32021975

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2011/09/16/report-brandon-flowers-gets-50-million-from-chiefs/

http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2011/09/brandon-flowers-contract-breakdown.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/852862-brandon-flowers-new-contract-makes-chiefs-afc-west-force-for-years-to-come

These are the first few hits on Google...

[BossChief]

if Carr was asking for that, it's because he's pissed at something and wants out...

Never go full retard.

Carr has an agent that knows what the market value would be if he hits free agency and in case you have never negotiated a contract before...

One side starts low

The other side starts high

They meet in the middle.

Saying he is pissed and wants out is just dumb

[jd1020]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/32021975

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2011/09/16/report-brandon-flowers-gets-50-million-from-chiefs/

http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2011/09/brandon-flowers-contract-breakdown.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/852862-brandon-flowers-new-contract-makes-chiefs-afc-west-force-for-years-to-come

These are the first few hits on Google...

5 year extension.

[Rausch]

I think some people are thinking I WANT to pay him $14M per.

I don't.

But there's also ZERO reason we can't. We could sign him AND a half dozen free agents. We have nearly HALF the cap to spend.

FACT.

However, Carr is easily worth $1-2M more than Flowers simply because of circumstances. If that hurts Flowers' ego, too bad. He didn't HAVE to sign when he did.

Carr has much more upside and physical talent. For those that paid attention this year Carr was fucking erasing people after the midway point. Don't ask me why it took that long (philosophy, game plan, coaching) but he definitely outplayed Flowers.

PERIOD.

Why you'd sign Flowers (solid, but unspectacular) long term and not lock up Carr is beyond me...

[BossChief]

If he was our 2nd corner, no...

Did he cover Andre Johnson or the second receiver?

Megaton?

Show me what games he covered the opposing teams #1 receiver, please.

Carr is/was our #2 corner.

Also, Flowers is a better OVERALL DEFENDER.

It seems that Pioli isn't the one playing hardball, let's just hope booths sides come to their senses and work a deal that makes sense for both sides.

[jd1020]

Did he cover Andre Johnson or the second receiver?

Megaton?

Show me what games he covered the opposing teams #1 receiver, please.

Carr is/was our #2 corner.

The Chiefs don't move their corners around. If the other team wants to put their #1 on the opposite side of Carr then you would have a hard time arguing that the other team is not trying to avoid Carr.

[Rausch]

Did he cover Andre Johnson or the second receiver?

Megaton?

Show me what games he covered the opposing teams #1 receiver, please.

Carr is/was our #2 corner.

When I show you vids of him covering both I want you to change your handle to ReachAroundSmiling.

Deal?...

[the Talking Can]

Never go full retard.

Carr has an agent that knows what the market value would be if he hits free agency and in case you have never negotiated a contract before...

One side starts low

The other side starts high

They meet in the middle.

Saying he is pissed and wants out is just dumb

hey look, it's 'California QBs can't throw in cold weather guy' giving his opinion...


you live in a freakin la-la land

[BossChief]

hey look, it's 'California QBs can't throw in cold weather guy' giving his opinion...


you live in a freakin la-la land

I never once said Barkley COULDN'T...I said he HADN'T.

Big difference, champ.

Not surprised you went that route. You always change words as it fits your argument.

Just like when we were discussing RG3 and I said he would need to learn to not use his mobility as much in the NFL and continue to develop as a passer if he is to be ultimetly successful (win a championship) and you went on a dumbass rant saying I called him a gimmick qb.

It's like you can't read sometimes, or just see things the way you chose to.

But please, tell us all.how we should pay Carr 14 million per year or Pioli is an idiot.

[BossChief]

When I show you vids of him covering both I want you to change your handle to ReachAroundSmiling.

Deal?...

I'm not saying Carr never covers opposing 1s, at times against certain opponents he did.

I'm saying the great majority of the time that's not the case.

Ill also say it again because apparently some of you missed it when I posted it yesterday...

Carr and Flowers were targeted evenly according to advanced stat websites.

That's with Flowers covering opposing 1s most of the time.

[htismaqe]

5 year extension.

Worth $50M over the life of the extension.

[BossChief]

If we sign Carr for 14 million per year, that means we will have invested almost 1/3 of our total cap space on our secondary.

That would be insane.

[htismaqe]

If we sign Carr for 14 million per year, that means we will have invested almost 1/3 of our total cap space on our secondary.

That would be insane.

Who said we should sign him for $14M dollars?

[Reaper16]

Just heard 810 talking about Carr...Soren and his guest (not sure who it is yet) have heard Carr is looking for $14-$16M a year.
Pioli-generated bullshit. I hate our GM so fucking much. What a prick.

[Rausch]

If we sign Carr for 14 million per year, that means we will have invested almost 1/3 of our total cap space on our secondary.

That would be insane.

Check your math...

[Titty Meat]

That's funny because Evan Silva yesterday said Carr is looking for a deal like Flowers.

[Rausch]

That's funny because Evan Silva yesterday said Carr is looking for a deal like Flowers.

Carr said the same thing shortly after Flowers was signed...

[Titty Meat]

Nick Wright bout to discuss some exclusive Brandon Carr news.

[Marcellus]

Unless someone wants to give Carr an insane signing bonus, I don't think he could make close to $14MM a year due to the 30% rule.

[jd1020]

Worth $50M over the life of the extension.

Wrong. He got a $10M signing bonus.

[htismaqe]

Unless someone wants to give Carr an insane signing bonus, I don't think he could make close to $14MM a year due to the 30% rule.


Even if he IS asking for that much (and it's only a rumor that he is) it's most assuredly a negotiating tactic and nothing more. He can't possibly think that he's worth 15-20% more than Revis, inflation or not.

That being said, he absolutely is worth somewhere in the $10-$12M per range, IMO.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Unless someone wants to give Carr an insane signing bonus, I don't think he could make close to $14MM a year due to the 30% rule.

30% rule is only for the contract after the rookie deal carr is fine.

[Rausch]

Nick Wright bout to discuss some exclusive Brandon Carr news.

Uh huh.

[Tribal Warfare]

they didn't tag Carr, but it seems the litmus test theory went down. Seeing what the other CB FAs are wanting ect...

[Titty Meat]

Carr is talking with other teams today per Wright.

[BigMeatballDave]

Nick Wright bout to discuss some exclusive Brandon Carr news.

Heh, groundbreaking, I'm sure.

[philfree]

Pioli-generated bullshit. I hate our GM so ****ing much. What a prick.

I'm not arguing but how do you end up with this conclusion?

[Rausch]

they didn't tag Carr, but it seems the litmus test theory went down. Seeing what the other CB FAs are wanting ect...

...

[Marcellus]

30% rule is only for the contract after the rookie deal carr is fine.

Wouldn't this be the deal after his rookie contract?

[BigMeatballDave]

Carr is talking with other teams today per Wright.

I WAS WRONG. EARTH-SHATTERING!

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Wouldn't this be the deal after his rookie contract?

That was this year 1y 2m deal with the chiefs.

[htismaqe]

Wrong. He got a $10M signing bonus.

His contract was worth $48.75M in NEW money, minus incentives.

That's just under $10M per year for the length of the extension.

EDIT: And of course, it doesn't count that much against the cap, nor will Carr's contract either...

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm not arguing but how do you end up with this conclusion?

Well, he began by trading for Matt Cassel...

[Chiefnj2]

Carr is talking with other teams today per Wright.

Is this allowed? I thought no contact until the start of free agency.

[Simplicity]

The Chiefs don't move their corners around. If the other team wants to put their #1 on the opposite side of Carr then you would have a hard time arguing that the other team is not trying to avoid Carr.

Why would they avoid Carr? Flowers is obviously better then Carr. JFC you guys are trying to make Carr sound like some kind of ELITE corner! Give me a break! You cannot tell me you guys think Carr is better then Flowers. ****ing jokes...

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Is this allowed? I thought no contact until the start of free agency.

He cant talk to anyone till mar 13 at 4pm.

[jd1020]

His contract was worth $48.75M in NEW money, minus incentives.

That's just under $10M per year for the length of the extension.

:facepalm:

The signing bonus is included in the 49.35M... The length of the contract is 6 years for 49.35M. The length of the extension is 5 years for 39.35M. Whats so hard to understand?

He signed his NEW contract before last season.

'11
'12
'13
'14
'15
'16

How many years do you count before he becomes a FA after the 2016 season?

[Marcellus]

That was this year 1y 2m deal with the chiefs.

Gotcha.

[Chiefnj2]

Why would they avoid Carr? Flowers is obviously better then Carr. JFC you guys are trying to make Carr sound like some kind of ELITE corner! Give me a break! You cannot tell me you guys think Carr is better then Flowers. ****ing jokes...

Carr is just as good as Flowers and is still ascending.

[Titty Meat]

Is this allowed? I thought no contact until the start of free agency.

No but i'm sure it happens all the time.

[Simplicity]

Is this allowed? I thought no contact until the start of free agency.

IDK if you missed the POINT OF THIS WHOLE ****ING THREAD....
Obviously players can meet with different teams! Routt visited with the Chiefs on monday! REMEMBER?!?!?!?! Sometimes I wonder.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

IDK if you missed the POINT OF THIS WHOLE ****ING THREAD....
Obviously players can meet with different teams! Routt visited with the Chiefs on monday! REMEMBER?!?!?!?! Sometimes I wonder.

Routt can cause he was cut.

[BigMeatballDave]

Why would they avoid Carr? Flowers is obviously better then Carr. JFC you guys are trying to make Carr sound like some kind of ELITE corner! Give me a break! You cannot tell me you guys think Carr is better then Flowers. ****ing jokes...

Flowers is better at run support but Carr is the better cover Guy.

Not sure why you don't get how good Carr is.

[Simplicity]

Carr is just as good as Flowers and is still ascending.

ROFL :shake:

[Simplicity]

Routt can cause he was cut.

They all can...

[Chiefnj2]

IDK if you missed the POINT OF THIS WHOLE ****ING THREAD....
Obviously players can meet with different teams! Routt visited with the Chiefs on monday! REMEMBER?!?!?!?! Sometimes I wonder.

Routt was released by the Raiders. Dumbass. Carr is still a Chief.

[BigMeatballDave]

ROFL :shake:

Keep laughing, dumbass

[htismaqe]

:facepalm:

The signing bonus is included in the 49.35M... The length of the contract is 6 years for 49.35M. The length of the extension is 5 years for 39.35M. Whats so hard to understand?

http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2011/09/brandon-flowers-contract-breakdown.html

According to a league source with access to NFL salary data, Flowers' five-year extension is worth $48.75 million in "new" money, with $11 million fully guaranteed, another $11 million that is currently guaranteed for injury only, and $1.25 million in escalators that can potentially increase the value of the contract to $50 million.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

They all can...

No they cant

[jd1020]

http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2011/09/brandon-flowers-contract-breakdown.html

According to a league source with access to NFL salary data, Flowers' five-year extension is worth $48.75 million in "new" money, with $11 million fully guaranteed, another $11 million that is currently guaranteed for injury only, and $1.25 million in escalators that can potentially increase the value of the contract to $50 million.

JFC.

I'm done with this. I've spelled it out for you several times and you still dont understand.

[Titty Meat]

Simplicity is a bad troll.

[htismaqe]

:facepalm:

The signing bonus is included in the 49.35M... The length of the contract is 6 years for 49.35M. The length of the extension is 5 years for 39.35M. Whats so hard to understand?

He signed his NEW contract before last season.

'11
'12
'13
'14
'15
'16

How many years do you count before he becomes a FA after the 2016 season?

Yeah, I forgot the entire 2011 season. You're right.

[ModSocks]

They all can...

no they can't. Carr can't negotiate with anyone until the start of the new league year.

Routt was cut. HUGE difference.

[htismaqe]

JFC.

I'm done with this. I've spelled it out for you several times and you still dont understand.

Actually, you spelled it out once and I got it right then and there. Thanks though.

[Simplicity]

Carr is not better then Flowers... Simple.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Just sign bowe to a 5y 55m deal and tag carr how hard is that Pioli?

[Chiefnj2]

ROFL :shake:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/cornerbacks-a-glance-at-the-2011-numbers/

[ModSocks]

Carr is a better cover guy? How much INTs did Flowers have compared to Carr? Not to mention majority of the time Flowers was covering the 1 WR.

INTS dont equal coverage all the time.

If that were true that would mean that Lewis covers better than Berry.

Flowers has more Ints because Flowers has better ball handling skills. Carr was often in a spot to make a play on the ball, just couldn't complete the catch.

[ModSocks]

Carr is not better then Flowers... Simple.

They have two different skill sets. Both do one thing better than the other.

[Simplicity]

So... With that being said...
Flowers wins the run support
Flowers wins the athleticism
Tied for coverage... Hmmm... Flowers is still better.

[Brock]

IDK if you missed the POINT OF THIS WHOLE ****ING THREAD....
Obviously players can meet with different teams! Routt visited with the Chiefs on monday! REMEMBER?!?!?!?! Sometimes I wonder.

LMAO Dummy.

[ModSocks]

So... With that being said...
Flowers wins the run support
Flowers wins the athleticism
Tied for coverage... Hmmm... Flowers is still better.

WTF?

Ball Skills does not = Athleticism.

Carr is bigger, faster and stronger than Flowers. That's not even debatable.

Flowers is more aggressive in his coverage, more aggressive in his run support.

If Carr had the hands that Flowers does (which aren't great, as Flowers has let multiple INTS slips through is hands) Carr would be a borderline pro-bowler.

This is a stupid argument anyway.

They both play their position at a high level and both are a slight notch below elite.

[Old Dog]

Is Simplicity a Wickedson mult? The "logic" appears very similar.

[Simplicity]

WTF?

Ball Skills does not = Athleticism.

Carr is bigger, faster and stronger than Flowers. That's not even debatable.

Flowers is more aggressive in his coverage, more aggressive in his run support.

If Carr had the hands that Flowers does (which aren't great, as Flowers has let multiple INTS slips through is hands) Carr would be a borderline pro-bowler.

This is a stupid argument anyway.

They both play their position at a high level and both are a slight notch below elite.

If Carr is "bigger, faster, and stronger"... Then why is Flowers more "agressive"? Is car not putting his "athleticism" to use?

[jd1020]

If Carr is "bigger, faster, and stronger"... Then why is Flowers more "agressive"? Is car not putting his "athleticism" to use?

Wtf does size, speed, and strength have to do with aggression?

Why is a Chihuahua more aggressive than Golden Retriever?

[Simplicity]

I honestly didn't know where I was going with that one. :)

[Sofa King]

INTS dont equal coverage all the time.

If that were true that would mean that Lewis covers better than Berry.

Flowers has more Ints because Flowers has better ball handling skills. Carr was often in a spot to make a play on the ball, just couldn't complete the catch.


They both had 4 picks last year.

[Sofa King]

Is Simplicity a Wickedson mult? The "logic" appears very similar.

He's definitely an early front runner for douche of the year.

[Bowser]

He's definitely an early front runner for douche of the year.

Supposedly he's 15.

[Sofa King]

Supposedly he's 15.

Good. Perhaps CP can shape his life in these ever important years ahead.

[ModSocks]

They both had 4 picks last year.

And Carr should've had more.

[-King-]

If Carr is "bigger, faster, and stronger"... Then why is Flowers more "agressive"? Is car not putting his "athleticism" to use?

Wtf?

How is that an "If"? Did Flowers randomly decide to grow 3 inches and 20 pounds?

[BossChief]

It's a bullshit report.

If someone really is talking to Carr, they are in viation of league rules and Nick Wright should blow the whistle because Brandon Carr is still under contract with the Chiefs until next month.

Remember, the Lions got docked a pick just by Gunther saying something along the lines of "I'd love to have a couple of their players if they are released"

[jd1020]

If Carr is looking to be the top paid CB in KC, I'd offer him a take it or leave contract no higher than what Asante Samuel got.

[htismaqe]

If Carr is looking to be the top paid CB in KC, I'd offer him a take it or leave contract no higher than what Asante Samuel got.

What did Samuel get?

[jd1020]

What did Samuel get?

6/57.

He only got a 6M signing bonus and his is backloaded. I'd up the signing bonus and front load the first year.

If you wanted to do comparables you could look at what Chris Gamble got... 6/53.5.

EDIT: Ya... **** that. I'd offer him close to what Gamble got. That would be 1M more a year than Flowers and Gamble is slightly better than Carr.

[BossChief]

I'd have no problem giving him 5/60 if that what it would take.

Past that, let him walk and replace him with someone good, but realistic.

[jd1020]

I'd have no problem giving him 5/60 if that what it would take.

Past that, let him walk and replace him with someone good, but realistic.

Why would you have no problem with signing Carr to a contract > Revis? Because its not your money?

[WhiteWhale]

Did he cover Andre Johnson or the second receiver?

Megaton?

Show me what games he covered the opposing teams #1 receiver, please.

Carr is/was our #2 corner.

Also, Flowers is a better OVERALL DEFENDER.

It seems that Pioli isn't the one playing hardball, let's just hope booths sides come to their senses and work a deal that makes sense for both sides.


Nobody on our team follows a WR around. Watch it. Flowers is the LCB because he's physical against the run... so he's on the strong side. LCB is the more important position in this scheme. If the opponent's #1 target is a flanker, then flowers covers him. If the opponent's #1 target is a SE, then Carr covers him. Most top WR targets are flankers A good example of a SE who is the #1 target is... uhh... Dwayne Bowe!

For example.. When we play the Colts Carr covered Wayne because he's the SE.

[BossChief]

Why would you have no problem with signing Carr to a contract > Revis? Because its not your money?

A few things.

This is a passing league and positions such as teams second corner, right tackles and second pass rushers are becoming more and more valuable. If we are gonna beat teams like Green Bay, NY and other teams that can go 3 and 4 deep with starting quality receivers, we are gonna need to be able to match that in coverage. No way we beat GB without Carr.

The new CBA took money away from rookies with the intention that teams would spend that money on veterans (this is also why teams are beyond reluctant to let their coaches go to other teams)

Revis' contract was two years ago and lots changed since then

I believe Carr is every bit as good as Asamughua as a guy that is shut down in coverage and not "player greedy"...Carr is more apt to be consistently good and knocking down most passes instead of gambling by going for picks. To me, that is extremely valuable.

[jd1020]

A few things.

This is a passing league and positions such as teams second corner, right tackles and second pass rushers are becoming more and more valuable. If we are gonna beat teams like Green Bay, NY and other teams that can go 3 and 4 deep with starting quality receivers, we are gonna need to be able to match that in coverage. No way we beat GB without Carr.

The new CBA took money away from rookies with the intention that teams would spend that money on veterans (this is also why teams are beyond reluctant to let their coaches go to other teams)

Revis' contract was two years ago and lots changed since then

I believe Carr is every bit as good as Asamughua as a guy that is shut down in coverage and not "player greedy"...Carr is more apt to be consistently good and knocking down most passes instead of gambling by going for picks. To me, that is extremely valuable.

Such bad business. You don't pay someone who's not the best the best money.

[BossChief]

Nobody on our team follows a WR around. Watch it. Flowers is the LCB because he's physical against the run... so he's on the strong side. LCB is the more important position in this scheme. If the opponent's #1 target is a flanker, then flowers covers him. If the opponent's #1 target is a SE, then Carr covers him. Most top WR targets are flankers A good example of a SE who is the #1 target is... uhh... Dwayne Bowe!

For example.. When we play the Colts Carr covered Wayne because he's the SE.

We are saying the exact same thing.

Most of the time, Flowers is covering the opposing teams best WR and even with that figured in, he and Carr were targeted an equal amount of times.

[ModSocks]

Nobody on our team follows a WR around. Watch it. Flowers is the LCB because he's physical against the run... so he's on the strong side. LCB is the more important position in this scheme. If the opponent's #1 target is a flanker, then flowers covers him. If the opponent's #1 target is a SE, then Carr covers him. Most top WR targets are flankers A good example of a SE who is the #1 target is... uhh... Dwayne Bowe!

For example.. When we play the Colts Carr covered Wayne because he's the SE.

Yeah, but SE & Flanker don't dictate which side of the field the Receiver is on. You can have an SE on Flowers side. Offenses shift and move around.

But yeah, your point still stands. our CB's don't move and we don't have a true #1/#2

[BossChief]

Such bad business. You don't pay someone who's not the best the best money.

Try to keep up.

Brandon Carr is gonna get top dollar from us or someone else and I doubt very highly that he will have to go to a bad team to get that coin.

[jd1020]

Try to keep up.

Brandon Carr is gonna get top dollar from us or someone else and I doubt very highly that he will have to go to a bad team to get that coin.

I don't give a shit if he gets 12M/y as long as its not from us.

[FAX]

Try to keep up.

Brandon Carr is gonna get top dollar from us or someone else and I doubt very highly that he will have to go to a bad team to get that coin.

If that's the case, put the non-exclusive tag on him and maybe we can wind up with 2 first-round picks out of the deal.

FAX

[ModSocks]

If that's the case, put the non-exclusive tag on him and maybe we can wind up with 2 first-round picks out of the deal.

FAX

Not sure, but I don't think that Tag exists anymore in the new CBA

[Mr_Tomahawk]

So I don't wanna go looking through page after page after page of bickering...

...have there been any other reports out today of him having official visits elsewhere...? I know he was scheduled to visit jerry-world.

Edit* I am speaking of Stanford Routt. ie. the thread topic.

[FAX]

Not sure, but I don't think that Tag exists anymore in the new CBA

Really? That's a shame. This is a classic opportunity to use that tactic.

FAX

[jd1020]

So I don't wanna go looking through page after page after page of bickering...

...have there been any other reports out today of him having official visits elsewhere...? I know he was scheduled to visit jerry-world.

He can't visit anyone... he's still a Chief.

[Sofa King]

He can't visit anyone... he's still a Chief.

He's talking about Routt.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

He can't visit anyone... he's still a Chief.

Sorry....I meant Stanford Routt...the guy this thread is about.

[FAX]

I googled up some stuff, then did an internet search.

I don't see anything about the non-exclusive tag going away???

FAX

[jd1020]

Sorry....I meant Stanford Routt...the guy this thread is about.

Ahh.

[ModSocks]

I googled up some stuff, then did an internet search.

I don't see anything about the non-exclusive tag going away???

FAX

Non Exclusive, which is different than a franchise tag (right?). I'm pretty sure they took that out.

[Sofa King]

I googled up some stuff, then did an internet search.

I don't see anything about the non-exclusive tag going away???

FAX

Did you try yahoo.com-ing "google" before you searched for it on Msn.com?

Perhaps Jeeves knows what's up.

[FAX]

Non Exclusive, which is different than a franchise tag (right?). I'm pretty sure they took that out.

I hate to ask, Mr. Detoxing, but do you have a link or resource?

I'm not seeing anything that references the removal of that tag.

FAX

[ModSocks]

I hate to ask, Mr. Detoxing, but do you have a link or resource?

I'm not seeing anything that references the removal of that tag.

FAX

No i don't. But I think the tag i was thinking of is the "transition" tag. I think the "franchise" tag can deemed as either exclusive or non exclusive.

Fuck, i don't know.

[jd1020]

No i don't. But I think the tag i was thinking of is the "transition" tag. I think the "franchise" tag can deemed as either exclusive or non exclusive.

****, i don't know.

Pretty sure the non-exclusive tag still exists. The Vikings used that on Greenway last offseason.

[FAX]

No i don't. But I think the tag i was thinking of is the "transition" tag. I think the "franchise" tag can deemed as either exclusive or non exclusive.

****, i don't know.

No ... I wasn't thinking of the transition tag ... that's something different. Here's what I found, and it's dated Feb 15, 2012.

If the team uses the Exclusive Franchise Tender, then that player is not allowed to negotiate with any team. The one-year contract is the average of the five largest salaries as that player's respective position as of the end of the restricted free agent signing period that league

If the team uses the Non-Exclusive Franchise Tender, then that player is allowed to negotiate with any team, however if that player leaves for the new team, then that player's old team receives two first round draft picks as compensation. The one-year contract is the average of the top contracts at that player's position over the five preceding league years -- or 120 percent increase over that player's contract the year prior (whichever is greater).

Teams can withdraw the Franchise Tender at anytime before the player signs, allowing that player to become an unrestricted free agent.

The deadline for franchise players to sign a long-term deal is July 15 (or the first Monday if the 15th falls on a weekend).

Based on the date, this appears to be included in the new CBA. No?

FAX

[ModSocks]

No ... I wasn't thinking of the transition tag ... that's something different. Here's what I found, and it's dated Feb 15, 2012.

If the team uses the Exclusive Franchise Tender, then that player is not allowed to negotiate with any team. The one-year contract is the average of the five largest salaries as that player's respective position as of the end of the restricted free agent signing period that league

If the team uses the Non-Exclusive Franchise Tender, then that player is allowed to negotiate with any team, however if that player leaves for the new team, then that player's old team receives two first round draft picks as compensation. The one-year contract is the average of the top contracts at that player's position over the five preceding league years -- or 120 percent increase over that player's contract the year prior (whichever is greater).

Teams can withdraw the Franchise Tender at anytime before the player signs, allowing that player to become an unrestricted free agent.

The deadline for franchise players to sign a long-term deal is July 15 (or the first Monday if the 15th falls on a weekend).

Based on the date, this appears to be included in the new CBA. No?

FAX

Guess so. I must be confusing some things.

So your original point is that we'd place the "transition" tag on Carr and Franchise Bowe?

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Guess so. I must be confusing some things.

So your original point is that we'd place the "transition" tag on Carr and Franchise Bowe?

Can only use 1 tag..All the Transition tag does is give the chiefs 7 days to match they don't get any picks if he rolls.

[FAX]

Guess so. I must be confusing some things.

So your original point is that we'd place the "transition" tag on Carr and Franchise Bowe?

No ... I was thinking the non-exclusive tag on one or the other.

I don't think you can use the franchise AND the transition tag in the same year under the new CBA.

What I'm saying is this; if Carr is considered to be such a great player, the non-exclusive tag could establish his value in the marketplace and, if we're unwilling to match the offer, we could benefit from the picks. It seems like a good strategy under the circumstances.

That's all.

FAX

[BossChief]

Non Exclusive, which is different than a franchise tag (right?). I'm pretty sure they took that out.

I don't think that tag got eliminated, FAX.

If there is anyone that hasn't been banned from ChiefsCoalition,there is a thread right after the CBA got signed with a link to the entire CBA word for word.

I'm still banned from there for nothing, or else I would link it myself.

[O.city]

So are you guys thinking Carr walks? Is that the thinking now?


I've been out of the loop a little here lately.

[ModSocks]

No ... I was thinking the non-exclusive tag on one or the other.

I don't think you can use the franchise AND the transition tag in the same year under the new CBA.

What I'm saying is this; if Carr is considered to be such a great player, the non-exclusive tag could establish his value in the marketplace and, if we're unwilling to match the offer, we could benefit from the picks. It seems like a good strategy under the circumstances.

That's all.

FAX

Ah, I C.

But if we do that, we'd risk Bowe hitting the market. If Bowe or Carr gets signed, we'd be in the clear.

You'd think that with two players, they could at least get ONE done.

[WhiteWhale]

Yeah, but SE & Flanker don't dictate which side of the field the Receiver is on. You can have an SE on Flowers side. Offenses shift and move around.

But yeah, your point still stands. our CB's don't move and we don't have a true #1/#2

I know I know, you're right.

In a standard formation the flanker is on the right and teams like to put the primary guy at Flanker for a few reasons, but one major reason is that most QB's are right handed.

[FAX]

So are you guys thinking Carr walks? Is that the thinking now?


I've been out of the loop a little here lately.

I think we'll sign them both. I think we'll negotiate with both, sign the best deal outright, then franchise the other guy.

Unless they have the same agent (which would be bad), that should work.

FAX

[O.city]

Thats what I think probably happens.


One gets signed, the other gets tagged.

[ModSocks]

Thats what I think probably happens.


One gets signed, the other gets tagged.

That's what we hope for anyway. That deadline is drawing closer and closer....

[NJChiefsFan]

That's what we hope for anyway. That deadline is drawing closer and closer....

Yeah thats the scenario I figured would play out a month ago. At this point I am starting to think we only end up with Bowe, and who knows if thats a tag or an actual contract.

[O.city]

Actually could see the Chiefs overpaying for one or both of these guys. They've spewed drivel that they carried all this money over to sign these guys. If they walk, season ticket sales are dropping, which is something Clarky can't have.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Jamaal Charles@jcharles25
Physical went great today in KC!! They're going to ease me in OTA & I'm on schedule to be back when the season starts!! Let's go #Chiefs



Here is alittle good news

[ModSocks]

Rotoworld/Gregg Rosenthal thinks that Carr gets the Tag, Bowe gets sent packin'.

http://rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/39910/59/franchise-tag-primer?pg=2

12. Brandon Carr, Chiefs cornerback

If Vegas set odds on franchise tags, Dwayne Bowe would be the heavy favorite in Kansas City. I’m going with the underdog.

Bowe is not a Scott Pioli type of guy in terms of attitude or consistency. He’s a better fantasy football player than in reality. In a perfect world, the Chiefs would sign Carr long-term and franchise Bowe. That’s a realistic scenario.

I’m writing in an imperfect world before any big deals are made. If the choice is Carr or Bowe, the rising young cornerback is the pick.

[O.city]

Good to hear.


Anyone heard much about Moeaki along these lines?

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Rotoworld/Gregg Rosenthal thinks that Carr get the Tag, Bowe get sent packin'.

http://rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/39910/59/franchise-tag-primer?pg=2

12. Brandon Carr, Chiefs cornerback

If Vegas set odds on franchise tags, Dwayne Bowe would be the heavy favorite in Kansas City. I’m going with the underdog.

Bowe is not a Scott Pioli type of guy in terms of attitude or consistency. He’s a better fantasy football player than in reality. In a perfect world, the Chiefs would sign Carr long-term and franchise Bowe. That’s a realistic scenario.

I’m writing in an imperfect world before any big deals are made. If the choice is Carr or Bowe, the rising young cornerback is the pick.




Tell Rosenthal to go watch the second half of the denver game.

[O.city]

If one of those guys walk, it just opens another hole that must be filled with a draft pick, that likely won't be as good as the guy that we didn't sign.

[ModSocks]

Tell Rosenthal to go watch the second half of the denver game.

lol. true

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

With several key in-house contributors slated to hit unrestricted free agency in 2012, and an expectation to be active participants in free agency, the Chiefs have chosen to execute the salary cap “carry over” clause tied to the new CBA.

The Chiefs ranked among the NFL’s top-10 in committed cash last season after signing a number of key free agents, according to Chairman and CEO Clark Hunt. However, the club managed to maintain a $20 million salary cap surplus which will be carried over for potential signings in 2012 and beyond.

Any player re-signed before the start of free agency in March will eat into that surplus.

“We ended last year about 20 million dollars under the salary cap which was a little bit less than has been reported,” Hunt recently told Steven St. John of Sports Radio 810 WHB. “We chose to carry that salary cap space over, which is something that you can do in the new CBA, you can carry it over.

“The reason that we chose to carry it over is we anticipate needing it in 2012 and 2013, both to continue signing our free agents as well as being able to go out and sign some free agents from outside.”

Hunt is referring to Page 96 of the new CBA, which reads…

“(v) Carrying Over Room. A Club may “carry over” Room from one League Year to the following League Year by submitting notice in writing signed by the owner to the NFL no later than fourteen (14) days prior to the start of the new League Year indicating the maximum amount of Room that the Club wishes to carry over. The NFL shall promptly provide a copy of any such notice to the NFLPA. The amount of Room carried over will be adjusted downward based on the final Room available after the year-end reconciliation.”

Essentially, the clause means that the team will receive an extra $20 million toward the 2012 cap number, which has yet to be set.

The surplus could be used to help the team re-sign players like Dwayne Bowe and Brandon Carr.

Pro Bowlers Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali, as well Brandon Flowers, all signed contract extensions prior to testing free agency. The Chiefs also recently inked Ryan Succop and Brandon Siler to new deals.

“It’s been a very big priority for us,” Hunt said. “When the team headed in a young direction starting back in 2008, one of the things we had in the back of our mind is that when those guys got to the end of their first contract, we wanted to be in a position to retain them if they were they type of players that we wanted for the future.

“We’ve obviously done that with a number of guys over the last several years, we’ve got a couple of key guys this year, we’ll have a couple of key guys next year and that’s just going to be a part of the philosophy. We want guys that start their careers with the Chiefs to play for as long as possible.”

Hunt believes the Chiefs current cap standing has put the team in position to make decisions based on winning and nothing else.

“Money is never a consideration when it comes to rebuilding the football team other than we do have to pay attention to the salary cap,” said Hunt.

Each of the NFL’s 32 teams will have a surplus to spend should they choose to execute the “carry-over” clause. No team used all of their cap room in 2011, though some teams have very little surplus to carry over.

Several teams have already begun releasing players and restructuring contracts to stay within cap limitations.

The Chiefs will also need to dedicate approximately $5 million in 2012 toward signing its rookie class.

“Last year when I was speaking with some of the media about our salary cap situation I told them that this situation is going to change dramatically as we go forward and as we go onto 2012 and 2013,” Hunt said.

“We are going to utilize that cap space and thank goodness we’ve been able to carry over the space that we had into 2011, 2012 and 2013 because it’s really going to help us, it’s going to give us an advantage against other teams that will have to let guys go.”



http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/Chiefs-activate-salary-cap-carry-over-clause/e1174080-a8d2-4608-885a-35119b2a80bb

[O.city]

We aren't gonna give Bowe a contract, after he's worked his ass off and improved, but we are paying some dipshits top dollar.

[NJChiefsFan]

The whole "Bowe has a bad attitude" crap ended last year. People who don't follow the team just repeat it like sheeple because they don't know any better.

[Mr. Laz]

We aren't gonna give Bowe a contract, after he's worked his ass off and improved, but we are paying some dipshits top dollar.

link?

[O.city]

No link, just my dumbass opinion.

[Titty Meat]

Rotoworld/Gregg Rosenthal thinks that Carr gets the Tag, Bowe gets sent packin'.

http://rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/39910/59/franchise-tag-primer?pg=2

12. Brandon Carr, Chiefs cornerback

If Vegas set odds on franchise tags, Dwayne Bowe would be the heavy favorite in Kansas City. I’m going with the underdog.

Bowe is not a Scott Pioli type of guy in terms of attitude or consistency. He’s a better fantasy football player than in reality. In a perfect world, the Chiefs would sign Carr long-term and franchise Bowe. That’s a realistic scenario.

I’m writing in an imperfect world before any big deals are made. If the choice is Carr or Bowe, the rising young cornerback is the pick.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lITBGjNEp08" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[NJChiefsFan]

Hunt mentioned it carrying over to 2013. Does the surplus carry over for two years? I was assuming we could only use the extra $20 million this year and that in 2013 we would have to be back down to the normal cap.

[Mr. Laz]

No link, just my dumbass opinion.
ahhhhh ...


buck up, lil buckaroo ... no use in getting upset about something that hasn't even happened.

[O.city]

We just better sign both these guys. We can front load the contracts with this huge bundle of money we have this offseason.

[NJChiefsFan]

We just better sign both these guys. We can front load the contracts with this huge bundle of money we have this offseason.

If Hunt is serious about the "its not a money issue" this should be a win-win for both sides.

[O.city]

Someone tweeted yesterday that the Chiefs have enough money to

Sign Bowe and Carr
Sign one of the top OL, DL and still pursue other options.

[WhiteWhale]

“It’s been a very big priority for us,” Hunt said. “When the team headed in a young direction starting back in 2008, one of the things we had in the back of our mind is that when those guys got to the end of their first contract, we wanted to be in a position to retain them if they were they type of players that we wanted for the future.

“We’ve obviously done that with a number of guys over the last several years, we’ve got a couple of key guys this year, we’ll have a couple of key guys next year and that’s just going to be a part of the philosophy. We want guys that start their careers with the Chiefs to play for as long as possible.”

[/url]

No no no Clark. You were supposed to use all that money to overpay franklin. By not signing him you proved you don't want to win!!!

Seriously though this is what I've been trying to explain to the denser KC fans for about 2 years now.