***Official Car and Gearhead Thread***

[Megatron96]

You keep saying that the Mustang and Camaro don’t handle well, have you drove any of those in the past couple years? They have massively improved, most car magazines and reviewers rave about how those care handle now.

I drove a Mustang GT 2018 (I think, might've been a '17?) a couple years ago; haven't yet driven a Camaro since 2017. It was much improved over the Mustang Gt I drove several years before that, which I think I mentioned somewhere above. But as good as it was, it wasn't as good as some other coupes I've driven recently (meaning over the last 4 years or so). It lacks "refinement" is about as precise as I can be about it. The Mustang was fast and fairly agile, sure, but it didn't communicate as well as I wanted it to, it still exhibited some understeer, the seats could've been better, and the car is just a little too big or wide if that makes more sense.

[Megatron96]

And here's the thing: while the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang (I'll thrown in the Caddy as well) are good sports coupes, essentially three of them are the same type of car. Here we call them pony cars or muscle cars, but the point is that they all are designed around the same idea: take a 2-door 4-seater and jam a big brash engine in it so it goes fast. Which is great, but the only American coupe that tries to be a little refined is the Caddy.

But where is the American coupe that's a little more refined than a Mustang/Camaro/whatever but not as fancy-schmancy as a Caddy? You know, something that isn't as over-the-top as a Camaro, but doesn't need the calfskin leather sun visors or heated seats or whatever. Put that money into the suspension or the engine. That's the slot I'm thinking of.

[Buehler445]

And here's the thing: while the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang (I'll thrown in the Caddy as well) are good sports coupes, essentially three of them are the same type of car. Here we call them pony cars or muscle cars, but the point is that they all are designed around the same idea: take a 2-door 4-seater and jam a big brash engine in it so it goes fast. Which is great, but the only American coupe that tries to be a little refined is the Caddy.

But where is the American coupe that's a little more refined than a Mustang/Camaro/whatever but not as fancy-schmancy as a Caddy? You know, something that isn't as over-the-top as a Camaro, but doesn't need the calfskin leather sun visors or heated seats or whatever. Put that money into the suspension or the engine. That's the slot I'm thinking of.

So Chevy has a feature called Magnetic Ride Control. I bought the wife a Yukon with one and it really does a good job on our kid hauler. I can’t imagine how much good it would do on a performance wagon.

Camaro has it.

Details.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/what-is-magnetic-ride-control-article-1.4042612%3foutputType=amp

How to identify

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462865

[Megatron96]

So Chevy has a feature called Magnetic Ride Control. I bought the wife a Yukon with one and it really does a good job on our kid hauler. I can’t imagine how much good it would do on a performance wagon.

Camaro has it.

Details.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/what-is-magnetic-ride-control-article-1.4042612%3foutputType=amp

How to identify

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462865

I've heard of it, never tried it, I think. Drove a Yukon back in the early 2000s; it was terrible. Sloppy numb steering, ditto suspension, engine wasn't strong enough, and the thing creaked and rattled all the time.

[Buehler445]

I've heard of it, never tried it, I think. Drove a Yukon back in the early 2000s; it was terrible. Sloppy numb steering, ditto suspension, engine wasn't strong enough, and the thing creaked and rattled all the time.

That’s not the case anymore. Wife’s doesn’t even have the 6.2 and it will straight get it.

I’m not suggesting you buy one. Especially if you’re looking at performance vehicles. But the magnetic ride control is legit. All I was saying.

[Megatron96]

That’s not the case anymore. Wife’s doesn’t even have the 6.2 and it will straight get it.

I’m not suggesting you buy one. Especially if you’re looking at performance vehicles. But the magnetic ride control is legit. All I was saying.

that's cool. Nice to hear that they tried to get it right.

And I'm not actually looking to get a sports car/coupe/sedan. Not in any real sense anyway. I'm blue skying. Because the stupid bug has basically killed off most of my social activities for now, I've been spending some time watching car shows. Auctions (recorded, I believe), Motor Trend, Top Gear, etc., and they review a lot of sports coupes, but they all seem to be European or Japanese, and I just thought, "where are the American offerings?"

I have a Tacoma TRD pick-up and a Toyota SUV. I want to trade in the Highlander for something else, but for now I really would like a new-to-me truck. Been looking at Tundras or Silverados mostly. But I kind of still need some kind of people-mover like the SUV for when my brother's family comes into town. Otherwise I'd probably be looking at an Alfa or something.

[cooper barrett]

Kinda figured that what you really meant was, "Why don't American manufactures use European philosophies" but didn't want to assume.

What you're really asking is, "why don't more American companies use V6 or Turbo 4-bangers in their sports cars?"

Porsche Caymans don't have backseats. It's a Roadster, not a Coupe.

BMW 4-Series coupes come in 2.0 4-Cyl and 3.0 V6 Configurations.

If you want an small-motor, light weight car that you can throw around corners, Ford addressed that with the 4cyl Turbo Mustang.

Your complaint isn't that Americans don't make awesome sport-coupes. Your complaint is that they don't put high performance, small displacement motors in their sports cars.

Their small displacement variants are treated more as economy cars to help with EPA issues.

Your BMW 4-series Coupe offers a 320HP turbo V6 as its top engine choice, meanwhile, that's the economy version of a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger.

A $33K economy mustang

Americans don't make quality 2 door / 4 seat vehicles that some call coupes (but are hybred sedans). If there is a post behind the door to support the roof it's a sedan called by Ford as a fastback since the rear window is in the back half of the trunk

The BMW is not a coupe..in reality, the Mercedes is not a coupe, the mustang is not a coupe and the caddy is not a coupe.

This is a coupe
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1991_mercedes-benz_300ce_1546961965cfcd2P1090186.jpg?w=940

Nobody wants to hear that their bad ass Dodge Demon is a 2dr sedan.....so they starting calling them coupes

no body wants to pay for it either. The above 300CE sold for $63K in 1992...

[Buehler445]

that's cool. Nice to hear that they tried to get it right.

And I'm not actually looking to get a sports car/coupe/sedan. Not in any real sense anyway. I'm blue skying. Because the stupid bug has basically killed off most of my social activities for now, I've been spending some time watching car shows. Auctions (recorded, I believe), Motor Trend, Top Gear, etc., and they review a lot of sports coupes, but they all seem to be European or Japanese, and I just thought, "where are the American offerings?"

I have a Tacoma TRD pick-up and a Toyota SUV. I want to trade in the Highlander for something else, but for now I really would like a new-to-me truck. Been looking at Tundras or Silverados mostly. But I kind of still need some kind of people-mover like the SUV for when my brother's family comes into town. Otherwise I'd probably be looking at an Alfa or something.

If you feel the need to scoot periodically the 6.2 GM puts in Tahoe’s and Silverados is pretty hot.

[Megatron96]

If you feel the need to scoot periodically the 6.2 GM puts in Tahoe’s and Silverados is pretty hot.

Yeah, I have four friends that have Silverados, not sure exactly what powerplants are in them, but they all can go. None of our trucks can turn worth a damn tho

[hometeam]

Here ill clear it all up for you guys.

German cars are total POS. There is a better american car for everything.

MY WORK HERE IS DONE

[Megatron96]

Here ill clear it all up for you guys.

German cars are total POS. There is a better american car for everything.

MY WORK HERE IS DONE

:thumb:

[Marcellus]

And here's the thing: while the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang (I'll thrown in the Caddy as well) are good sports coupes, essentially three of them are the same type of car. Here we call them pony cars or muscle cars, but the point is that they all are designed around the same idea: take a 2-door 4-seater and jam a big brash engine in it so it goes fast. Which is great, but the only American coupe that tries to be a little refined is the Caddy.

But where is the American coupe that's a little more refined than a Mustang/Camaro/whatever but not as fancy-schmancy as a Caddy? You know, something that isn't as over-the-top as a Camaro, but doesn't need the calfskin leather sun visors or heated seats or whatever. Put that money into the suspension or the engine. That's the slot I'm thinking of.

Get a 2007 GTO for cheap and put some $ into it.

[backinblack]

^they stopped making the GTO after the 2006 model year.

[Marcellus]

^they stopped making the GTO after the 2006 model year.

Better get 2006 then! Couldn't remember exactly.

[Buehler445]

Better get 2006 then! Couldn't remember exactly.

I REALLY wanted one in those in my younger days.

[cooper barrett]

Hometeam.


You sell people POS Korean cars, a few are Stingers or G series, for a living and you are trying to say that new domestics cars are better than European or German cars when you sell against them everyday. I bet thought the Taurus was America's 300E when you could order leather interior... but WHY would you compare a Taurus to a 300E, 300CE or 400E or better yet my 500E

When was the last time you heard someone talking of a Tauras SHO or a Focus SVT? They are not worth shit now but they had a chance to be legendary but Ford build great cars for the Euro market instead of selling them to Americans

My 92 Mercedes is valued at or above $45K (insured for $60K) why, It's not a Ford or a Chevy with blistering plastic interiors, rust on every panel, needing every steering and suspension part replaced, basically totaling the POS'

$65K
https://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/66748935-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=1

This was Red Skelton's

https://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/72438434-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=117


Cars not treated properly sell in the $35K range
$35K
https://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/69429529-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=1





If this were made into a coupe.....enthusiasts might remember it
https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1049x590/quality/80/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/11/taurussema09_10.jpg


I owned 2 of these and traded on in at your old employer about7 -8 years ago.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b396/Lumadar/Focus%20Aug%2008/IMG_0703small.jpg

Just calling you out that American cars, if they still exist.... Ram Fiat trucks.
Dodge/ Fiat Dart

Ford sells people cars built for the Euro's but demanded by the few in the know, You own 2 euro cars not sold (not anymore)in the US.






Here ill clear it all up for you guys.

German cars are total POS. There is a better american car for everything.

MY WORK HERE IS DONE

[lewdog]

Nobody reads your long ass posts Cooper.

[hometeam]

First off, I sell new Nissans. I also sell about twice as many pre-owned vehicles of all types.

German cars are fuckin junk. Thats just life.

[cooper barrett]

I"ll say that to myself next time I jump into the 500's Factory Racaro's upholstered in full hide Mercedes Leather, fire up the 385HP aluminum V8 and am thrown back as it goes
from 0-60 in 5 seconds that...

"German cars are all fuckin junk"

"German cars are all fuckin junk"

"German cars are all fuckin junk"



It's like gorgeous redheads, unless you have the experience, knowledge, time, and temperament to take care of them, they make your life horrible. Therefore you consider them all bitches from hell.




If you know what you're looking at you can spot a set droopy tits and a loose box with lipstick during a walk around. People who trade in a "German" cars know that two years ago they should have done the 60K maintenance and they should have addressed that noise it makes when on cold starts about 15K miles back but they just dump it on an unsuspecting car dealer with not a bit of guilt. Especially if they are not the first owner.


How many $50K used cars to you sell there in Jeff City? Who do youcall for buy bids?


First off, I sell new Nissans. I also sell about twice as many pre-owned vehicles of all types.

German cars are ****in junk. Thats just life.

[cooper barrett]

I post lots of visuals since I know my audience.

Nobody reads your long ass posts Cooper.

[MIAdragon]

The only reason the 500e is worth that much is because Porsche collectors are idiots with too much money (most anyway). Porsche built that car, and is behind the inflated price.

[Perineum Ripper]

When did the 500e start running under 5.5 sec to 60? Last I knew it was 5.5-6.0 to get to 60.




Also weren’t they only 300-320 hp?

[cooper barrett]

With Mercedes parts.. paint, trim drive train was all MB, most drive line and under car items were installed by Porsche techs. Trim, interior, paint were MB and were installed by MB. Their job was to modify the uni-body which they did from platforms that moved around the factory like pallets to accept the 500 and 600SL chassis and drive train and to hang the body parts. MB would do paint,between segments of assy. Porsche was not setting the world on fire during the early 2000's because of a global rescission.

My 300 CE (1992) sold new for $62,500($118K today) with cd in trunk and sunroof
My current 92 500E was $83,500 with CD and sunroof. So yes, a "Wolf in sheep's clothing" cost about $20K more.

It was worth it at twice the price.:D:D

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81659455_2596373200597811_872127344637116416_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jfzjM2Vky3QAX8ihZck&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=cc76cd33577110214c2be83a6a3d45cb&oe=5F6D2554














The only reason the 500e is worth that much is because Porsche collectors are idiots with too much money (most anyway). Porsche built that car, and is behind the inflated price.

[Megatron96]

This is a good-looking coupe. Anyone know anything about it?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/35/1b/7b351b9f6c9f010abfa20e5c4ce2c3b6.png

Sorry. This is the Cadillac CT-9, supposedly came out this year.

[cooper barrett]

Personal testing of my own car at Porsche Car Control Clinic at Heartland Raceway.



When did the 500e start running under 5.5 sec to 60? Last I knew it was 5.5-6.0 to get to 60.




Also weren’t they only 300-320 hp?

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Me and a buddy’s new A Team / Chiefs tailgating project will be at Arrowhead Thursday!

[cooper barrett]

Would have to be shit faced drunk and abandoned at the stadium to be seen anywhere near it.

Wait I now a guy who would love it. If it's AWD
.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/kctv5.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/d0/ed04f214-17a5-11e9-930f-fb59cfa539da/5c3bf9825e7b0.image.jpg?resize=1700%2C956

Me and a buddy’s new tailgating project will be at Arrowhead Thursday!

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Would have to be shit faced drunk and abandoned at the stadium to be seen anywhere near it.

Don’t worry, within a few seconds of talking to you I’m sure we’d point you back in the right direction.

[R Clark]

Don’t worry, within a few seconds of talking to you I’m sure we’d point you back in the right direction.

Looks good, ignore the asshat

[hometeam]

Its no 30 year old pos mercades but thats pretty sweet!

[cooper barrett]

ya that's it

It's appreciating POS to you.

FYI MY 28 YO POS is governed (or was) at 15 MPH faster than your car can go.

Looks like a church bus with a cow pusher on the front. If it were an offset smoker, then I would be impressed

[cooper barrett]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NG4rH_gzYbk?start=195&end=208"frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cooper barrett]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NG4rH_gzYbk?start=195&end=315"frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[R Clark]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NG4rH_gzYbk?start=195&end=315"frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I sure wish I had two of these, one to shit on the other to cover it up with

[loochy]

I sure wish I had two of these, one to shit on the other to cover it up with

But what smells worse? The shit or the car?

[cooper barrett]

Something on your level, Actually it's over...


https://www.masonrymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/John-Neher-TECH-Level-angled.jpg

WAIT FOR IT

https://64.media.tumblr.com/722a1f44aa912cabb588d6a5e0bb5df1/2b389b1683674d79-2f/s500x750/72d6e9b05182e506a0e8f81d318b234ee1c038f6.png

[Demonpenz]

monte

[Demonpenz]

Monte

[Demonpenz]

s

[bigjosh]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/97856d610dc09f5abba3bb1353986c22.jpg
Traded in my WRX for a 2020 vw passat rline tonight.

Im going to miss the wrx, lots of memories and good times. Onto new things!

[hometeam]

Funny this thread popped up tonight.

I posted my trans am for sale last night on Facebook.

Over 500 comments ranging from 'OMG SUPER SICK CAR I LOVE THAT CAR SAD TO SEE IT GO' to 'OMG THE BLUE BOOK IS ONLY 4k ON THAT CAR LOL GOOD LUCK' and over 60 private message from prospective buyers, she has gone to a new home in less than 24 hours.

I feel a little yucky in my belly but I also have a bunch of cash in my pocket so...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/180359b795a66386e230e2a2b99c7c30/tenor.gif?itemid=3482082

[lewdog]

Funny this thread popped up tonight.

I posted my trans am for sale last night on Facebook.

Over 500 comments ranging from 'OMG SUPER SICK CAR I LOVE THAT CAR SAD TO SEE IT GO' to 'OMG THE BLUE BOOK IS ONLY 4k ON THAT CAR LOL GOOD LUCK' and over 60 private message from prospective buyers, she has gone to a new home in less than 24 hours.

I feel a little yucky in my belly but I also have a bunch of cash in my pocket so...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/180359b795a66386e230e2a2b99c7c30/tenor.gif?itemid=3482082

You've put a lot of work into that car. Why did you sell it?

[Buehler445]

You've put a lot of work into that car. Why did you sell it?

Yeah dude. That was your baby.

[cooper barrett]

Breaking even is hard to do.


Funny this thread popped up tonight.

I posted my trans am for sale last night on Facebook.

Over 500 comments ranging from 'OMG SUPER SICK CAR I LOVE THAT CAR SAD TO SEE IT GO' to 'OMG THE BLUE BOOK IS ONLY 4k ON THAT CAR LOL GOOD LUCK' and over 60 private message from prospective buyers, she has gone to a new home in less than 24 hours.

I feel a little yucky in my belly but I also have a bunch of cash in my pocket so...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/180359b795a66386e230e2a2b99c7c30/tenor.gif?itemid=3482082

[hometeam]

Sold it for a couple reasons.

One - the car has sat in the garage most of the year, I barely drove it this year and it was just wasting away, figured I would get out of it before I broke something on it.

Two - I am angling towards a new house, thats liquid money in the bank

Three - not to be too political, but the fact the democrats won the election has me thinking that the economy is going to take a shit, so the security is worth any emotional attachment I had

So yea thats pretty much it, multitiude of factors. If I get a wild hair I can jump back in, im going to also sell my softail i think today or tomorrow, and put that cash towards a different bike which I am going to cut up and build over winter time, so I will still have a (much cheaper) project to work on

[cooper barrett]

cross posted


Once in a lifetime opportunity...


https://i.postimg.cc/m2fdwn50/image-2021-01-04-045526.png

[Buehler445]

I laughed.

[stevieray]

Almost finished redoing interior of my elco.

[cooper barrett]

Almost finished redoing interior of my elco.

There is a lot of shitty plastic in those. Where do you source that stuff?

I had a nice 78 and then an 87. The 87 was made in Mexico.

[stevieray]

There is a lot of shitty plastic in those. Where do you source that stuff?

I had a nice 78 and then an 87. The 87 was made in Mexico.

dashes are brittle, everything else is solid.

El Camino store
Dixie Restoration

[cooper barrett]

This looks like fun


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SEwimVN1_-4?controls=0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cooper barrett]

I own several 240Z's: I understand. They break when you look at them crosseyed, or trying to remove/ install them unless you buy new, remake. stuff.

My 78's dash was covered by carpet since day one, the 78 was trashed with a really nice dashcap installed.

My buddy has a 69 ss 396 that DR. Vinyl fixed (Kirk Potet) and 25 years later, it's still perfect. He did the door handles on my 65 T-bird (saving me a grand) and they held up great.


dashes are brittle, everything else is solid.

El Camino store
Dixie Restoration

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Finally got a build date for my TRX! 2/8

[BigRedChief]

Finally got a build date for my TRX! 2/8Got any build pics?

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Here's my TRX build.

[BigRedChief]

Here's my TRX build.Damn man thats a helluva truck. Salu!

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Damn man thats a helluva truck. Salu!

Yeah, I might actually keep this one for awhile.

[cooper barrett]

Name the whip?


https://64.media.tumblr.com/5253b6f9751d33a6fe34acf3a459800f/0f3b5596abaeec19-d3/s640x960/4637facdd18cc195e2e163c51ec60383dcaf0f13.jpg

[MIAdragon]

Name the whip?


https://64.media.tumblr.com/5253b6f9751d33a6fe34acf3a459800f/0f3b5596abaeec19-d3/s640x960/4637facdd18cc195e2e163c51ec60383dcaf0f13.jpg

It’s a GTR, miss mine.

[cooper barrett]

It’s a GTR, miss mine.

Great call, Thanks

The custom? door panel threw me a curve.

[displacedinMN]

There's a car?

[sd4chiefs]

One of these monsters passed me the other day. Holly Crap!

https://www.rezvanimotors.com/#rezvani-tank-specifications-starting-at-155000-usd

[cooper barrett]

This is bone stock

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b7hCHv-SAZA?start=709&end=771" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[loochy]

Alright folks, wifey is going to buy a new car. She's narrowed her list to



Lexus GX 460
Toyota 4 Runner
Kia Telluride


Anybody have experience with any of these? We're specifically interested in the longer term quality of the Kia...it's pretty damn fancy and for $50 it has every bit of technology and features one could ever want.

[Megatron96]

Alright folks, wifey is going to buy a new car. She's narrowed her list to



Lexus GX 460
Toyota 4 Runner
Kia Telluride


Anybody have experience with any of these? We're specifically interested in the longer term quality of the Kia...it's pretty damn fancy and for 50 it has every bit of technology and features one could ever want.

If she's ever going to go off-road, the only one to pick is the 4 Runner. Damned things will go anywhere. The other two not so much.

I loved my 4 Runner, though the gas mileage wasn't great. But whether it was snowy roads or muddy bogs out in the middle of nowhere, it always soldiered right through all of it. Probably the most reliable SUV/truck I ever owned.

The other two are basically city utes; the Lexus is obviously the luxury version and the Kia is the budget-minded.

[kstater]

Alright folks, wifey is going to buy a new car. She's narrowed her list to



Lexus GX 460
Toyota 4 Runner
Kia Telluride


Anybody have experience with any of these? We're specifically interested in the longer term quality of the Kia...it's pretty damn fancy and for 50 it has every bit of technology and features one could ever want.We've been more than thrilled with our Sorento. Only had it a year though so long term not sure how will hold up.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[cooper barrett]

Don't be such a cheap ass.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nOZTLF6OK6I" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Alright folks, wifey is going to buy a new car. She's narrowed her list to



Lexus GX 460
Toyota 4 Runner
Kia Telluride


Anybody have experience with any of these? We're specifically interested in the longer term quality of the Kia...it's pretty damn fancy and for 50 it has every bit of technology and features one could ever want.

[loochy]

If she's ever going to go off-road, the only one to pick is the 4 Runner. Damned things will go anywhere. The other two not so much.


She won't go offroad, but I liked the beefy tires on the TRD version so she can drive up on curbs (like she so often does) without scraping the rims.




The other two are basically city utes; the Lexus is obviously the luxury version and the Kia is the budget-minded.


Quite frankly, the Kia was more luxurious than the Lexus. But it was also about $20k cheaper. I'm trying to figure out the catch here...

[cooper barrett]

Resale, it's the resale.


She won't go offroad, but I liked the beefy tires on the TRD version so she can drive up on curbs (like she so often does) without scraping the rims.






Quite frankly, the Kia was more luxurious than the Lexus. But it was also about $20k cheaper. I'm trying to figure out the catch here...

[Perineum Ripper]

Here is the latest JD Power vehicle dependability



https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

[Baby Lee]

<iframe width="958" height="539" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iX7T2c0bag0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cooper barrett]

Thanks for posting this.

Great commentator.

<iframe width="958" height="539" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iX7T2c0bag0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Perineum Ripper]

You car guys might want to start googling the RPM act and see what the EPA is trying to do to skull fuck the automotive industry

[Buehler445]

You car guys might want to start googling the RPM act and see what the EPA is trying to do to skull fuck the automotive industry

Disband the EPA.

Sisterfuckers say I need to have fucking concrete or steel containment around a god fucking 55 gallon barrel of any petroleum product but the goddamned oil companies can store thousands of gallons of fucking crude and saltwater with an "earthen berm"

Fucking sons of cunts.

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

I've had the TRX for a week. Way better truck than the Supercharged Roush, mainly because it isn't a 3rd party add-on truck. OEM is just better.

[Baby Lee]

Wow, rough week for motorsport

https://i.imgur.com/5zF1cvD.jpg

Better times

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[morphius]

Wow, rough week for motorsport

https://i.imgur.com/5zF1cvD.jpg

Better times

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That sucks, I think she was in a few top gear shows.

[Baby Lee]

That sucks, I think she was in a few top gear shows.

Yeah, she semi-hosted [ie, remotes and car reviews] a year or two during the Joey Tribianni years.

[cooper barrett]

Sorry to hear we lost a great one to cancer.

I always thought she was hot and a great driver. I had heard she was battling cancer but that's all I knew.


Wow, rough week for motorsport

https://i.imgur.com/5zF1cvD.jpg

Better times

<iframe width="958" height="544" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5KiC03_wVjc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cooper barrett]

What's in a Name? Can Native Americans Control Outsiders' Use of their Tribal Names?
December 1994
Author
Janet
McGowan
In the United States, Native American names and symbols appear on many company products. Jeep Cherokee, Pontiac cars, Shawmut Bank, Mohawk Paper Company, Crazy Horse Malt Liquor and Sioux Industries are just a few examples. Indigenous names seem to be showing up more frequently, maybe a case of commercial markets following the renewed interest in Native peoples in the United States. Urban Outfitters, a national clothing and housewares chain selling to the youth market, recently named a marketing division the "Department of Anthropologie" and sells a line of housewares under the name, "Zuni," the name of a Pueblo Indian Nation.

These practices are prevalent in particular industries. Many natural foods companies sell traditional indigenous foods (such as wild rice, blue corn and potatoes), using tribal names, pictures of Native peoples and symbols on product labels. Several cosmetics containing traditional Native plants and these products display similar advertising practices. The Self-Help and New Age spiritual movements freely pick and choose among the great diversity of sacred Native beliefs, religions and ways of life, using indigenous names and symbols with their seminars, books and programs.

Indigenous beliefs, names, symbols and practices clearly are worth money in the American marketplace. The market is so lucrative that companies frequently blur the line between authentic indigenous products and non-indigenous products. Hopi Blue Popcorn is a prime example of a company that has wrapped itself in Native American-ness. The Hopi Blue Popcorn label has a picture of Hopi women wearing traditional clothing and hair styles, working in a field with corn plants sowed several feet apart, a traditional Pueblo desert planting technique. The label copy tells a story that blue corn was grown by the Hopi and was an integral part of their religious life. Despite all these strong suggestions, there is no connection between the Hopi People and this product. The corn is not Hopi blue corn-it is not even blue corn. Instead, it is a hybrid of yellow and blue corn. The product is not sold by any Hopi and the popcorn probably isn't farmed in the way shown on the label. Finally, the Hopi and the other Pueblos do grow blue corn and blue corn is sacred and part of their spiritual life. However, consumers reading this label could easily believe that this product contains Hopi blue corn, that the corn was grown by the Hopis, grown in the traditional way or that Hopis themselves sell this product.

The names and symbols of indigenous groups may be among the few remaining resources or cultural properties of many indigenous societies. Can the unauthorized use of Native names and symbols be stopped?

This article introduces some U.S. laws that Native American Nations, groups, companies and individuals may be able to use to stop outsiders from using tribal names and symbols on non-Native commercial products or from falsely claiming to sell a Native American product. This article focuses on trademark law, the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act, the Federal Trade Commission Act, the Food & Drug Act, and other state laws regulating trademarks, unfair competition, and consumer fraud and protection.

TRADEMARK LAW

The federal and state systems of trademark registration can be a powerful way for Native American Nations to register and protect their names - and to stop companies from using their names on products, such as the Jeep Cherokee. trademark law regulates and protects the names and slogans that companies use to sell their products. A trademark is a name, a brandname, a group of words or symbols that companies use to identify their products and services. A trademark is like a brand on cattle; it identifies where a product is front and the company that sells it. Coca Cola is a trademark and property, as is the name Cultural Survival. If someone uses your trademark on their products without permission, you can sue them for infringement, get a court order to make them stop and pay money as damages. To show a word is a trademark, a company will put a small "TM" (sometimes in a circle) next to the word. If the word is registered with the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, a small "R" in a circle may be shown.

Not all words can be trademarked. For example, under the U.S. Trademark Act (the Lanham Act, 15 United States Code Section 1051 et.seq.), no one can trademark immoral or scandalous words, or words which bring people (alive or dead), institutions, beliefs or national symbols into "contempt or disrepute." Nor can words be trademarked which suggest a false connection with peoples, institutions, beliefs or national symbols. Flags, coats of arms or national insignias of any state, city or foreign nation cannot be trademark, nor can the names, portraits or signatures of a living person.

There are other restrictions. It is another general rule that geographic names, like London or Egypt, cannot be trademarks, although this rule has been broken. Sometimes the courts allow a geographic name as a trademark if it has developed secondary meaning or the geographic name is arbitrary. (A trademark has secondary meaning when it gains strong name recognition with consumers.) Generic words cannot be used as trademarks. A generic trademark is a world for what a thing is. For example, if you were an auto mechanic, you cannot trademark the words, "Auto Mechanic." Descriptive words (words needed to describe a product) generally cannot be trademark, unless they develop secondary meaning.

Usually a person cannot trademark someone else's trademark, but this rule has many exceptions. Sometimes two companies can use the same trademark for similar products in different geographical areas or on two different products. Or sometimes two companies can use the same trademark with the same products but in different channels of trade.

There are two central issues in trademark law. Will consumers be confused by use of the same or similar trademarks on different products? Which company used the trademark first? The likelihood of confusion and the date of first use are key questions in trademark disputes.

Trademark are protected by federal law and each state has its own law protecting trademarks. Hence the legal protection given to a trademark depends on federal law and what state law apply to the trademark. It also depends on the trademark's strength - the stronger the trademark, the more protection it gets. Strengthen depends on many factors, such as the uniqueness of the word, the amount of sales, the geographic area of sales, consumer recognition, how different the trademark is, first use, how many companies use the trademark, advertising costs, length of use, etc.

HOW DO WORDS OR SYMBOLS BECOME TRADEMARKS?

There are several ways to make a word or symbol into a trademark: 1) by using the trademark with a product and developing consumer recognition and trademark strength; 2) by registering the trademark with the US. Patent &Trademark Office or a state agency; and 3) (for Native Americans only) by registering a trademark through the Indian Arts & Crafts Board. Of these options, U.S. Patent and Trademark Office registration gives the most effective legal protection under American law. Federal trademark registration puts all U.S. companies on national notice that a person has registered the trademark and gives the trademark a legal presumption of validity. Then, after 5 years, there are fewer ways to legally challenging a federally registered trademark.

USE

Native American tribes, companies, groups or individuals who have sold goods using tribal names can argue that their own use has established trademark rights in their names. But by simply relying on use, Native Americans (or companies) run the risk that other companies also are using the same trademark and developing legal rights to this trademark.

REGISTRATION UNDER THE INDIAN ARTS & CRAFTS ACT

Although the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act (25 United States Code Section 305 et.seq.) allows the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Board to register trademarks for Native Americans, the trademark itself is owned by the Board. However, in the 1970's the Board stopped registering and owning Native American trademarks. The Board believe that Native Americans, not the Board, should own the trademark. The Indian Arts & Crafts Board can help Native Americans register trademarks, but currently has no funding to help do this. So this Act, at this time, is not a very effective route for Native Americans to register their own trademark. The Act is helpful in that anyone who uses a Native American trademark without permission or falsely claims a product is Native American can be sued by either the U.S. Attorney General of Native Americans.

FEDERAL TRADEMARK REGISTRATION

To federally register a trademark, a simple application is filed with the Patent & Trademark Office (PTO), with a $200 fee for each class of goods the trademark is used in. The PTO then looks at (or examines) the trademark to see if it is a generic word, descriptive, deceptive, if there are other registrations, etc. If the trademark is approved, the trademark is published in the Trademark Office Gazette for 6 months, giving people time to object to it by filing an opposition. If the trademark then gets final approval, the trademark is federal registered.

In addition to regular trademarks, collective or certification trademark can be registered under the federal Lanham Act. Native American Nations and groups may be interested in registering a collective or certification trademark. A collective trademark shows membership in a particular group or that a product was made by members of a group, cooperative, association or other organization. Collective trademarks are owned by the group, not a person or company, Professional Golfers Association is a collective trademark.

Certification trademarks are somewhat different, although sometimes it is hard to see the differences between collective and certification marks. A certification mark cannot be used by its owner. Instead. the owner of the trademark allows others to use their trademark - but only if certain standards are met. The standards can be for quality, ways the products are made, national origin, if the product helps the environment, contains certain materials, etc. The Good House-Keeping Seal of Approval is a certification trademark.

Native American tribal councils, co-operatives or business groups could register a collective trademark using their tribal name and only allow members of their tribe or association to use the collective trademark. It a certification trademark is registered, only people meeting the certification standards for authenticity, quality, use of traditional ingredients or methods for making goods or preparing foods, etc., should be allowed to use the certification trademark.

GROUNDS FOR CHALLENGING A TRADEMARK

Anyone who believes that he would be damaged by a trademark registration can file a legal challenge to a trademark. The type of challenge depends on where a trademark is in the federal registration process. If a company has just applied to register a trademark using a Native American name, Native Americans can simply wife a protest letter to the PTO objecting to the application. If the Trademark Office has given conditional approval to the trademark application and proval to the trademark application and published the trademark in its Gazette, Native Americans have 6 months to file a formal opposition. If the trademark gets final approval, a petition to cancel the registration can be filed.

At the application stage, there are more legal grounds (or reasons) for challenging a trademark. Native Americans may be able to file petitions to oppose a registration for a tribal name using many of these grounds. For example, Native Americans might file an opposition if: 1) they are the first users of the word in commerce; 2) the trademark is a name used by tribal businesses, organizations or religious groups; 3) the trademark uses the name or insignia of their Nation; 4) it is morally offensive and scandalous to them to have their names listed on a beer can, a pick-up truck or a home heating oil company' 5) the public will confuse this trademark and product with tribal goods; 6) the trademark is misdescriptive or deceptively misdescriptive in that it will lead consumers into thinking that the products if from the tribes;7) the trademark suggests a false connection with the tribe, tribal groups, religious institutions, beliefs or national symbols; 8) the trademark is the name of a person living or dead, a geographic place or nation. These are just some reasons for a challenging. If the PTO allows the trademark to be registered, a petition to cancel the trademark can be filed on these same grounds for the first 5 years.

After five years, a petition to cancel a trademark can be field for fewer reasons because it has become incontestable. An incontestable trademark cannot be challenged because it is descriptive, likely to create confusion or someone else used the trademark first. But an opposition still can be filed if the trademark; 1) is now a generic word, a coat of arms, flag or insignia of a state, city or foreign company; 2) the name of, picture of signature of a living persons; 3) is scandalous, immoral, deceptive or suggests a false connection with institutions, beliefs, persons (living or dead) or national symbols; 4) is a certification or collective mark being used incorrectly; 5) is a certification or collective mark being used in a way as to deceptively misdescriptive; or 6) is geographically mis-descriptive; or deceptive (on the date of registration), among other reasons. A registration also can be challenged if the owner has abandoned the trademark, lost control of it because too many people are using it without permission, or if he got the trademark through fraud.

For example, if the Hornell Brewing Company has a federal trademark registration for Crazy Horde for its malt liquor, members of Crazy Horse's tribe or other Native Americans could file a petition to cancel this registration on the grounds the registration is immoral, offensive or scandalous to Native peoples. This objection can always be raised. This is similar to the Senussi case, where the Trademark Office denied a trademark application for Senussi for cigarettes because it was scandalous to the Senussi Muslim sect which prohibited smoking as part of its religious practices. In re Reemtmsa Cigaretten-fabriken GambH, 122 U.S.P.Q. 339 9TTAB 1959).

OTHER CHALLENGES

A company using a Native American tribal name as a trademark also might be challenged under the Lanham Act, the Federal Trade Commission Act (FTC Act) and state laws that regulate trademarks and unfair competition (the rules for what businesses can and can't I do in the marketplace). Both the Lanham Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act regulate how companies compete against each other. The Federal Trade Commission, in particular, defines unfair competition very broadly as acts that offend public policy; violate a common law, statutory or established concept of fairness; are immoral, unethical unsecrupulous, oppressive, or unsecurmpulous; or that cause substantial injury to consumers. (The FTC Act is discussed in more detail later.) Violations of either act could occur if non-Native companies sell products which directly claim, strongly suggest or may mislead the public into believing they are selling authentic Indian products. The common law and statues of many states have similar laws against unfair competition and trademark infringement. (Common law is the law made by judges' decisions, not by the statues passed by state legislatures.) Possible claims under these laws include: trademark infringement, getting a federally registered trademark by fraud, false advertising, false designation of origin, false description, planning off, dilution of trademark and goodwill, and other forms of unfair competition 9such as deceptive trade practices, misbranding of goods, or misappropriation of some concrete business right of plaintiff that is not protected by traditional trademark or copyright law but which constitutes unfair competition). Whether these laws apply will depend on the facts in the situation.

ACTS SPECIFICALLY PROTECTING NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBAL NAMES & PROHIBITING MISLABELING PRODUCTS AS INDIAN

The federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act and several state statues directly prohibit companies from falsely claiming that their products are authentic Native American goods. Under these laws a non-Native company selling a product which (through its name, label pictures, symbols or copy or other advertising) falsely claims to be an authentic Native product - or strongly suggests this - could be sued under these acts. The federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act is a strong statute since anyone falsely selling goods as Indian can be sued, either by the US. Attorney General or Native Americans. No trademark has top be involved. The Indian Acts & Crafts Act authorizes the U.S. Attorney General to bring civil or criminal charges against anyone who...

"offers or displays for sale or sells a good with or without a Government trademark, in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian tribe of Indian arts and crafts organization ..." 7(15 U.S.C. Section 305e.)

Civil suits against violators can be field by Native American Nations, individuals or any tribal arts and crafts organization. Violators can be forced to pay triple damages or up to $1,000 for each day they sold the false products. There may be a question under this Act about what is an "Indian product." Since the Act is generally directed at arts and crafts, the coverage of this Act might be limited to inauthentic Native American arts and crafts.

Thirteen states have statues similar to the federal Indian Arts and Crafts Act. These states are Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South dakota and Texas.

LAWS PROTECTING CONSUMERS FROM COMPANIES & COMPANIES FROM EACH OTHER

Other federal acts and state laws protect consumers from the unscrupulous practices of businesses and may be helpful to Native Americans dealing with companies selling false Native American products or products using tribal names. On the federal level, the Federal Trade Commission Act and the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act each protect consumers from mislabeled products and from fraudulent and misleading product labels. Clearly, when companies use Native American names and symbols on their products, they can mislead consumers into believing these products are from Native Americans.

FTC ACT

The Federal Trade Commission Act outlaws unfair competition, false advertisement, and unfair or deceptive acts and practices which affect commerce and consumers. (15 United States Code Sections 45 & 52). These terms are broadly defined. Consumer unfairness occurs when consumers are harmed, or by acts which violate public policy or are unethical and unscrupulous. Deceptive practices are representations, omissions or practices that are likely to mislead and harm consumers.

The Federal Trade Commission has already ruled against several companies selling products using Native American tribal names and symbols. In Bloom Brothers (23 F.T.C. 1157, Stipulation 1862 (Nov. 5, 1936), the company put pictures of Native Americans and scenes from their lives, such as wigwams, canoes, feathered head-dresses and typical decorative work, in their sales catalogue. The FTC ruled the Bloom Brothers could not use these pictures unless their catalogue had "appropriate language, clearly indicating that the article so described is not made by American Indians but is manufactured by others than such Indians." Also, they could not use the words "Indian" and "Indian bracelet" in their ads. Another FTC decision, In re Colorado Saddlery Company (62 F.T.C. 663 (1963), stopped a company from using the tribal name "Comanche" and the words "Indian" and "Sun Dance" with blankets. These ads were found to be false and misleading. In G&G Mfg. & Souvenir Co. (62 F.T.C. 663 (1963), the FTC found the G&G Manufacturing Company misled the public about the materials, workmanship and origin of the products it sold under the designation, "Indian Goods."

To go to the Federal Trade Commission, a complaint is filed with the FTC. not in a court. Anyone can file a complaint and there is no specific form. The complaint simply should explain the violation, give supporting information or evidence and include the name and address of the person filling a complaint to the FTC is getting the FTC to act, because of the number of complaints they receive. However, the FTC is under a statutory requirement to issue a complaint if it is in the public interest. So the FTC's failure to act can be appealed and reviewed under the federal Administrative Procedures Act. Also, anyone can petition the FTC to pass regulations. So Native American groups might want to petition the FTC and ask it to establish rules prohibiting the use of indigenous names and symbols on products sold by non-Native companies.

FOOD, DRUG & COSMETIC ACT

v The Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act (21 United States Code Section 331), prohibits the sale of delivery of misbranded or adulterated foods, drugs or cosmetics. One of the Act's goals is "to prevent injury to health and deception by putting words ... on labels which may naturally lead a purchaser into believing that he is getting one thing when in reality he is getting another." (United States v. 150 Cases of Fruit Puddine, 211 F. 2d 360, 363 (D. Mass 1914.) A misbranded product is one which; 1) has a false or misleading label; 2) is offered for sale under the name of another product; 3) misrepresents the identity of the food or ingredients, or the product's quality, purity, freshness, grade or naturalness; 4) misrepresents the product's place of origin or geographic original; or 5) is an imitation of another food. Adulteration can occur when a manufacturer deletes or substitutes one ingredient for another or deceives consumers about quality or value. This Act may help Native Americans. For example, Hopi Blue Popcorn appears to violate the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act, since it does not contain true blue corn and its label strongly suggests it is made by the Hopi or from the Hopi reservation.

Like the FTC Act, complaints about a food or cosmetic are filed with the Food & Drug Administration (FDA). A complaint petition must state the action requested, reasons for the request, any environmental or economic impact, and a certification that the statements are true. People also can petition the FDA to pass regulations, set food standards or standards of identity. Unfortunately, the FDA is not required to respond complaints and it can take years for it to adopt rules. Since the FDA is most likely to act if it feels there is widespread problem, a good strategy might be for Native American Nations and groups to file complaint petitions together - or jointly ask the FDA to pass regulations, create food standards or identity standards for Native Americans foods, such as wild rice and blue corn. Although the FDA focuses primarily on health issues, if the FDA sees the mislabeling of Native products as a serious problem, the agency could ask the FTC to act, (A violation of the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act also is a violation of the FTC Act.)

OTHER STATE LAWS

Many states have laws similar to the Food. Drug & Cosmetic Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act which protect the public (and companies) from improper label and advertising claims. Almost all states have broad and powerful consumer protection laws that could be used against companies making (or strongly suggesting) false claims of Native American-ness. Also, all all states have civil and criminal laws against fraud.

CONCLUSION

When companies use Native American names to sell their non-Native products they harm members of that Nation other Native Americans, consumers and Native American companies trying to succeed in the American market. The laws briefly discussed in this article may help stop these practices. It is critical to remember there is no way to predict the outcome of using any of these laws. Courts apply the same laws differently and often legal opinions contradict each other. Native Americans Nations may want to consider whether a new federal law is needed to specifically outlaw the use of Native American names and symbols on non-Native products.

Article copyright Cultural Survival, Inc.

New Jeeps unveiled. What will they be called?

What do you change the badge on your Jeep Cherokee to? It can't remain as an Indian reference, can it?

[loochy]

What's in a Name? Can Native Americans Control Outsiders' Use of their Tribal Names?
December 1994
Author
Janet
McGowan
In the United States, Native American names and symbols appear on many company products. Jeep Cherokee, Pontiac cars, Shawmut Bank, Mohawk Paper Company, Crazy Horse Malt Liquor and Sioux Industries are just a few examples. Indigenous names seem to be showing up more frequently, maybe a case of commercial markets following the renewed interest in Native peoples in the United States. Urban Outfitters, a national clothing and housewares chain selling to the youth market, recently named a marketing division the "Department of Anthropologie" and sells a line of housewares under the name, "Zuni," the name of a Pueblo Indian Nation.

These practices are prevalent in particular industries. Many natural foods companies sell traditional indigenous foods (such as wild rice, blue corn and potatoes), using tribal names, pictures of Native peoples and symbols on product labels. Several cosmetics containing traditional Native plants and these products display similar advertising practices. The Self-Help and New Age spiritual movements freely pick and choose among the great diversity of sacred Native beliefs, religions and ways of life, using indigenous names and symbols with their seminars, books and programs.

Indigenous beliefs, names, symbols and practices clearly are worth money in the American marketplace. The market is so lucrative that companies frequently blur the line between authentic indigenous products and non-indigenous products. Hopi Blue Popcorn is a prime example of a company that has wrapped itself in Native American-ness. The Hopi Blue Popcorn label has a picture of Hopi women wearing traditional clothing and hair styles, working in a field with corn plants sowed several feet apart, a traditional Pueblo desert planting technique. The label copy tells a story that blue corn was grown by the Hopi and was an integral part of their religious life. Despite all these strong suggestions, there is no connection between the Hopi People and this product. The corn is not Hopi blue corn-it is not even blue corn. Instead, it is a hybrid of yellow and blue corn. The product is not sold by any Hopi and the popcorn probably isn't farmed in the way shown on the label. Finally, the Hopi and the other Pueblos do grow blue corn and blue corn is sacred and part of their spiritual life. However, consumers reading this label could easily believe that this product contains Hopi blue corn, that the corn was grown by the Hopis, grown in the traditional way or that Hopis themselves sell this product.

The names and symbols of indigenous groups may be among the few remaining resources or cultural properties of many indigenous societies. Can the unauthorized use of Native names and symbols be stopped?

This article introduces some U.S. laws that Native American Nations, groups, companies and individuals may be able to use to stop outsiders from using tribal names and symbols on non-Native commercial products or from falsely claiming to sell a Native American product. This article focuses on trademark law, the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act, the Federal Trade Commission Act, the Food & Drug Act, and other state laws regulating trademarks, unfair competition, and consumer fraud and protection.

TRADEMARK LAW

The federal and state systems of trademark registration can be a powerful way for Native American Nations to register and protect their names - and to stop companies from using their names on products, such as the Jeep Cherokee. trademark law regulates and protects the names and slogans that companies use to sell their products. A trademark is a name, a brandname, a group of words or symbols that companies use to identify their products and services. A trademark is like a brand on cattle; it identifies where a product is front and the company that sells it. Coca Cola is a trademark and property, as is the name Cultural Survival. If someone uses your trademark on their products without permission, you can sue them for infringement, get a court order to make them stop and pay money as damages. To show a word is a trademark, a company will put a small "TM" (sometimes in a circle) next to the word. If the word is registered with the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, a small "R" in a circle may be shown.

Not all words can be trademarked. For example, under the U.S. Trademark Act (the Lanham Act, 15 United States Code Section 1051 et.seq.), no one can trademark immoral or scandalous words, or words which bring people (alive or dead), institutions, beliefs or national symbols into "contempt or disrepute." Nor can words be trademarked which suggest a false connection with peoples, institutions, beliefs or national symbols. Flags, coats of arms or national insignias of any state, city or foreign nation cannot be trademark, nor can the names, portraits or signatures of a living person.

There are other restrictions. It is another general rule that geographic names, like London or Egypt, cannot be trademarks, although this rule has been broken. Sometimes the courts allow a geographic name as a trademark if it has developed secondary meaning or the geographic name is arbitrary. (A trademark has secondary meaning when it gains strong name recognition with consumers.) Generic words cannot be used as trademarks. A generic trademark is a world for what a thing is. For example, if you were an auto mechanic, you cannot trademark the words, "Auto Mechanic." Descriptive words (words needed to describe a product) generally cannot be trademark, unless they develop secondary meaning.

Usually a person cannot trademark someone else's trademark, but this rule has many exceptions. Sometimes two companies can use the same trademark for similar products in different geographical areas or on two different products. Or sometimes two companies can use the same trademark with the same products but in different channels of trade.

There are two central issues in trademark law. Will consumers be confused by use of the same or similar trademarks on different products? Which company used the trademark first? The likelihood of confusion and the date of first use are key questions in trademark disputes.

Trademark are protected by federal law and each state has its own law protecting trademarks. Hence the legal protection given to a trademark depends on federal law and what state law apply to the trademark. It also depends on the trademark's strength - the stronger the trademark, the more protection it gets. Strengthen depends on many factors, such as the uniqueness of the word, the amount of sales, the geographic area of sales, consumer recognition, how different the trademark is, first use, how many companies use the trademark, advertising costs, length of use, etc.

HOW DO WORDS OR SYMBOLS BECOME TRADEMARKS?

There are several ways to make a word or symbol into a trademark: 1) by using the trademark with a product and developing consumer recognition and trademark strength; 2) by registering the trademark with the US. Patent &Trademark Office or a state agency; and 3) (for Native Americans only) by registering a trademark through the Indian Arts & Crafts Board. Of these options, U.S. Patent and Trademark Office registration gives the most effective legal protection under American law. Federal trademark registration puts all U.S. companies on national notice that a person has registered the trademark and gives the trademark a legal presumption of validity. Then, after 5 years, there are fewer ways to legally challenging a federally registered trademark.

USE

Native American tribes, companies, groups or individuals who have sold goods using tribal names can argue that their own use has established trademark rights in their names. But by simply relying on use, Native Americans (or companies) run the risk that other companies also are using the same trademark and developing legal rights to this trademark.

REGISTRATION UNDER THE INDIAN ARTS & CRAFTS ACT

Although the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act (25 United States Code Section 305 et.seq.) allows the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Board to register trademarks for Native Americans, the trademark itself is owned by the Board. However, in the 1970's the Board stopped registering and owning Native American trademarks. The Board believe that Native Americans, not the Board, should own the trademark. The Indian Arts & Crafts Board can help Native Americans register trademarks, but currently has no funding to help do this. So this Act, at this time, is not a very effective route for Native Americans to register their own trademark. The Act is helpful in that anyone who uses a Native American trademark without permission or falsely claims a product is Native American can be sued by either the U.S. Attorney General of Native Americans.

FEDERAL TRADEMARK REGISTRATION

To federally register a trademark, a simple application is filed with the Patent & Trademark Office (PTO), with a $200 fee for each class of goods the trademark is used in. The PTO then looks at (or examines) the trademark to see if it is a generic word, descriptive, deceptive, if there are other registrations, etc. If the trademark is approved, the trademark is published in the Trademark Office Gazette for 6 months, giving people time to object to it by filing an opposition. If the trademark then gets final approval, the trademark is federal registered.

In addition to regular trademarks, collective or certification trademark can be registered under the federal Lanham Act. Native American Nations and groups may be interested in registering a collective or certification trademark. A collective trademark shows membership in a particular group or that a product was made by members of a group, cooperative, association or other organization. Collective trademarks are owned by the group, not a person or company, Professional Golfers Association is a collective trademark.

Certification trademarks are somewhat different, although sometimes it is hard to see the differences between collective and certification marks. A certification mark cannot be used by its owner. Instead. the owner of the trademark allows others to use their trademark - but only if certain standards are met. The standards can be for quality, ways the products are made, national origin, if the product helps the environment, contains certain materials, etc. The Good House-Keeping Seal of Approval is a certification trademark.

Native American tribal councils, co-operatives or business groups could register a collective trademark using their tribal name and only allow members of their tribe or association to use the collective trademark. It a certification trademark is registered, only people meeting the certification standards for authenticity, quality, use of traditional ingredients or methods for making goods or preparing foods, etc., should be allowed to use the certification trademark.

GROUNDS FOR CHALLENGING A TRADEMARK

Anyone who believes that he would be damaged by a trademark registration can file a legal challenge to a trademark. The type of challenge depends on where a trademark is in the federal registration process. If a company has just applied to register a trademark using a Native American name, Native Americans can simply wife a protest letter to the PTO objecting to the application. If the Trademark Office has given conditional approval to the trademark application and proval to the trademark application and published the trademark in its Gazette, Native Americans have 6 months to file a formal opposition. If the trademark gets final approval, a petition to cancel the registration can be filed.

At the application stage, there are more legal grounds (or reasons) for challenging a trademark. Native Americans may be able to file petitions to oppose a registration for a tribal name using many of these grounds. For example, Native Americans might file an opposition if: 1) they are the first users of the word in commerce; 2) the trademark is a name used by tribal businesses, organizations or religious groups; 3) the trademark uses the name or insignia of their Nation; 4) it is morally offensive and scandalous to them to have their names listed on a beer can, a pick-up truck or a home heating oil company' 5) the public will confuse this trademark and product with tribal goods; 6) the trademark is misdescriptive or deceptively misdescriptive in that it will lead consumers into thinking that the products if from the tribes;7) the trademark suggests a false connection with the tribe, tribal groups, religious institutions, beliefs or national symbols; 8) the trademark is the name of a person living or dead, a geographic place or nation. These are just some reasons for a challenging. If the PTO allows the trademark to be registered, a petition to cancel the trademark can be filed on these same grounds for the first 5 years.

After five years, a petition to cancel a trademark can be field for fewer reasons because it has become incontestable. An incontestable trademark cannot be challenged because it is descriptive, likely to create confusion or someone else used the trademark first. But an opposition still can be filed if the trademark; 1) is now a generic word, a coat of arms, flag or insignia of a state, city or foreign company; 2) the name of, picture of signature of a living persons; 3) is scandalous, immoral, deceptive or suggests a false connection with institutions, beliefs, persons (living or dead) or national symbols; 4) is a certification or collective mark being used incorrectly; 5) is a certification or collective mark being used in a way as to deceptively misdescriptive; or 6) is geographically mis-descriptive; or deceptive (on the date of registration), among other reasons. A registration also can be challenged if the owner has abandoned the trademark, lost control of it because too many people are using it without permission, or if he got the trademark through fraud.

For example, if the Hornell Brewing Company has a federal trademark registration for Crazy Horde for its malt liquor, members of Crazy Horse's tribe or other Native Americans could file a petition to cancel this registration on the grounds the registration is immoral, offensive or scandalous to Native peoples. This objection can always be raised. This is similar to the Senussi case, where the Trademark Office denied a trademark application for Senussi for cigarettes because it was scandalous to the Senussi Muslim sect which prohibited smoking as part of its religious practices. In re Reemtmsa Cigaretten-fabriken GambH, 122 U.S.P.Q. 339 9TTAB 1959).

OTHER CHALLENGES

A company using a Native American tribal name as a trademark also might be challenged under the Lanham Act, the Federal Trade Commission Act (FTC Act) and state laws that regulate trademarks and unfair competition (the rules for what businesses can and can't I do in the marketplace). Both the Lanham Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act regulate how companies compete against each other. The Federal Trade Commission, in particular, defines unfair competition very broadly as acts that offend public policy; violate a common law, statutory or established concept of fairness; are immoral, unethical unsecrupulous, oppressive, or unsecurmpulous; or that cause substantial injury to consumers. (The FTC Act is discussed in more detail later.) Violations of either act could occur if non-Native companies sell products which directly claim, strongly suggest or may mislead the public into believing they are selling authentic Indian products. The common law and statues of many states have similar laws against unfair competition and trademark infringement. (Common law is the law made by judges' decisions, not by the statues passed by state legislatures.) Possible claims under these laws include: trademark infringement, getting a federally registered trademark by fraud, false advertising, false designation of origin, false description, planning off, dilution of trademark and goodwill, and other forms of unfair competition 9such as deceptive trade practices, misbranding of goods, or misappropriation of some concrete business right of plaintiff that is not protected by traditional trademark or copyright law but which constitutes unfair competition). Whether these laws apply will depend on the facts in the situation.

ACTS SPECIFICALLY PROTECTING NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBAL NAMES & PROHIBITING MISLABELING PRODUCTS AS INDIAN

The federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act and several state statues directly prohibit companies from falsely claiming that their products are authentic Native American goods. Under these laws a non-Native company selling a product which (through its name, label pictures, symbols or copy or other advertising) falsely claims to be an authentic Native product - or strongly suggests this - could be sued under these acts. The federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act is a strong statute since anyone falsely selling goods as Indian can be sued, either by the US. Attorney General or Native Americans. No trademark has top be involved. The Indian Acts & Crafts Act authorizes the U.S. Attorney General to bring civil or criminal charges against anyone who...

"offers or displays for sale or sells a good with or without a Government trademark, in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian tribe of Indian arts and crafts organization ..." 7(15 U.S.C. Section 305e.)

Civil suits against violators can be field by Native American Nations, individuals or any tribal arts and crafts organization. Violators can be forced to pay triple damages or up to $1,000 for each day they sold the false products. There may be a question under this Act about what is an "Indian product." Since the Act is generally directed at arts and crafts, the coverage of this Act might be limited to inauthentic Native American arts and crafts.

Thirteen states have statues similar to the federal Indian Arts and Crafts Act. These states are Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South dakota and Texas.

LAWS PROTECTING CONSUMERS FROM COMPANIES & COMPANIES FROM EACH OTHER

Other federal acts and state laws protect consumers from the unscrupulous practices of businesses and may be helpful to Native Americans dealing with companies selling false Native American products or products using tribal names. On the federal level, the Federal Trade Commission Act and the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act each protect consumers from mislabeled products and from fraudulent and misleading product labels. Clearly, when companies use Native American names and symbols on their products, they can mislead consumers into believing these products are from Native Americans.

FTC ACT

The Federal Trade Commission Act outlaws unfair competition, false advertisement, and unfair or deceptive acts and practices which affect commerce and consumers. (15 United States Code Sections 45 & 52). These terms are broadly defined. Consumer unfairness occurs when consumers are harmed, or by acts which violate public policy or are unethical and unscrupulous. Deceptive practices are representations, omissions or practices that are likely to mislead and harm consumers.

The Federal Trade Commission has already ruled against several companies selling products using Native American tribal names and symbols. In Bloom Brothers (23 F.T.C. 1157, Stipulation 1862 (Nov. 5, 1936), the company put pictures of Native Americans and scenes from their lives, such as wigwams, canoes, feathered head-dresses and typical decorative work, in their sales catalogue. The FTC ruled the Bloom Brothers could not use these pictures unless their catalogue had "appropriate language, clearly indicating that the article so described is not made by American Indians but is manufactured by others than such Indians." Also, they could not use the words "Indian" and "Indian bracelet" in their ads. Another FTC decision, In re Colorado Saddlery Company (62 F.T.C. 663 (1963), stopped a company from using the tribal name "Comanche" and the words "Indian" and "Sun Dance" with blankets. These ads were found to be false and misleading. In G&G Mfg. & Souvenir Co. (62 F.T.C. 663 (1963), the FTC found the G&G Manufacturing Company misled the public about the materials, workmanship and origin of the products it sold under the designation, "Indian Goods."

To go to the Federal Trade Commission, a complaint is filed with the FTC. not in a court. Anyone can file a complaint and there is no specific form. The complaint simply should explain the violation, give supporting information or evidence and include the name and address of the person filling a complaint to the FTC is getting the FTC to act, because of the number of complaints they receive. However, the FTC is under a statutory requirement to issue a complaint if it is in the public interest. So the FTC's failure to act can be appealed and reviewed under the federal Administrative Procedures Act. Also, anyone can petition the FTC to pass regulations. So Native American groups might want to petition the FTC and ask it to establish rules prohibiting the use of indigenous names and symbols on products sold by non-Native companies.

FOOD, DRUG & COSMETIC ACT

v The Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act (21 United States Code Section 331), prohibits the sale of delivery of misbranded or adulterated foods, drugs or cosmetics. One of the Act's goals is "to prevent injury to health and deception by putting words ... on labels which may naturally lead a purchaser into believing that he is getting one thing when in reality he is getting another." (United States v. 150 Cases of Fruit Puddine, 211 F. 2d 360, 363 (D. Mass 1914.) A misbranded product is one which; 1) has a false or misleading label; 2) is offered for sale under the name of another product; 3) misrepresents the identity of the food or ingredients, or the product's quality, purity, freshness, grade or naturalness; 4) misrepresents the product's place of origin or geographic original; or 5) is an imitation of another food. Adulteration can occur when a manufacturer deletes or substitutes one ingredient for another or deceives consumers about quality or value. This Act may help Native Americans. For example, Hopi Blue Popcorn appears to violate the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act, since it does not contain true blue corn and its label strongly suggests it is made by the Hopi or from the Hopi reservation.

Like the FTC Act, complaints about a food or cosmetic are filed with the Food & Drug Administration (FDA). A complaint petition must state the action requested, reasons for the request, any environmental or economic impact, and a certification that the statements are true. People also can petition the FDA to pass regulations, set food standards or standards of identity. Unfortunately, the FDA is not required to respond complaints and it can take years for it to adopt rules. Since the FDA is most likely to act if it feels there is widespread problem, a good strategy might be for Native American Nations and groups to file complaint petitions together - or jointly ask the FDA to pass regulations, create food standards or identity standards for Native Americans foods, such as wild rice and blue corn. Although the FDA focuses primarily on health issues, if the FDA sees the mislabeling of Native products as a serious problem, the agency could ask the FTC to act, (A violation of the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act also is a violation of the FTC Act.)

OTHER STATE LAWS

Many states have laws similar to the Food. Drug & Cosmetic Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act which protect the public (and companies) from improper label and advertising claims. Almost all states have broad and powerful consumer protection laws that could be used against companies making (or strongly suggesting) false claims of Native American-ness. Also, all all states have civil and criminal laws against fraud.

CONCLUSION

When companies use Native American names to sell their non-Native products they harm members of that Nation other Native Americans, consumers and Native American companies trying to succeed in the American market. The laws briefly discussed in this article may help stop these practices. It is critical to remember there is no way to predict the outcome of using any of these laws. Courts apply the same laws differently and often legal opinions contradict each other. Native Americans Nations may want to consider whether a new federal law is needed to specifically outlaw the use of Native American names and symbols on non-Native products.

Article copyright Cultural Survival, Inc.

New Jeeps unveiled. What will they be called?

What do you change the badge on your Jeep Cherokee to? It can't remain as an Indian reference, can it?

Jeep Pushover
Jeep Spineless

[Baby Lee]

Top Gear got together a proper tribute

<iframe width="950" height="535" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L7CKFvvzKSI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cooper barrett]

Thank you for that, she was and always will be one of my favorites


Top Gear got together a proper tribute

[lewdog]

The check engine light in our Mazda is going on and off. Of course it’s on for most of the day, until I start to take it to the mechanic and then it turns off so they can’t run the code.

Car doing nothing weird and I’ve checked the gas gap. Was off all day today then came back on when driving this afternoon.

[ModSocks]

The check engine light in our Mazda is going on and off. Of course it’s on for most of the day, until I start to take it to the mechanic and then it turns off so they can’t run the code.

Car doing nothing weird and I’ve checked the gas gap. Was off all day today then came back on when driving this afternoon.

Check the blinker fluid and get back to us.

[lewdog]

Check the blinker fluid and get back to us.

Oh that’s probably it!!!

[Perineum Ripper]

Anyone have any experience with a 2014 Nissan Xterra? Might pick one up, my truck is starting to give me trouble and it’s not really worth messing with anymore.

[cooper barrett]

find a better shop, all codes are logged even soft codes like this one. it's probably an O2 sensor starting to send bad #s

[Perineum Ripper]

Anyone doing Rocky Mountain Race Week this year?

[MIAdragon]

Anyone doing Rocky Mountain Race Week this year?

Are you going?

[Perineum Ripper]

Are you going?

Doing my best to get it worked out to go

[hometeam]

Wellllllllll its been a while and ive been busy. but since someone was talking about rust and it got me to thinking about aluminum bodied vehicles..

If anyone follows this thread you might know I sold off the turbo trans am..

then the market went absolutely insane.

So, sold off my RS too, since i got 1500 bucks more than I paid for it a year and a half/40k miles ago

then I bought (stole it more like it) this


https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/159716982_10218459019657961_8976404285270028915_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=GRjMcWP7oUsAX80kTh7&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=7f1aeaf27b2defad39af9afbbcfeb00e&oe=60D6525C

https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/159510125_10218459020057971_8351607803885656015_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=QHDNBs1q5i8AX8KtKQm&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=6ed3ceb1747b9f8ca462d60001cdcdef&oe=60D5E094




Over the last month, ive transformed it into this

https://i.imgur.com/upQN8sW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/w3wNGft.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cO4HFFG.jpg

gen 3 5.0 coyote
10 speed trans
revs to 7500rpm

JLT Intake, ported mustang GT intake mani, MBRP exhaust
OZ tuned
Belltech 2/4 axle flip
VAS traction bars

468whp on e85 through unloaded (dynojet) dyno
405/400 loaded (mustang) dyno

tons of fun and damn is she pretty.

[Dunerdr]

Wellllllllll its been a while and ive been busy. but since someone was talking about rust and it got me to thinking about aluminum bodied vehicles..

If anyone follows this thread you might know I sold off the turbo trans am..

then the market went absolutely insane.

So, sold off my RS too, since i got 1500 bucks more than I paid for it a year and a half/40k miles ago

then I bought (stole it more like it) this


https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/159716982_10218459019657961_8976404285270028915_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=GRjMcWP7oUsAX80kTh7&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=7f1aeaf27b2defad39af9afbbcfeb00e&oe=60D6525C

https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/159510125_10218459020057971_8351607803885656015_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=QHDNBs1q5i8AX8KtKQm&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=6ed3ceb1747b9f8ca462d60001cdcdef&oe=60D5E094




Over the last month, ive transformed it into this

https://i.imgur.com/upQN8sW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/w3wNGft.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cO4HFFG.jpg

gen 3 5.0 coyote
10 speed trans
revs to 7500rpm

JLT Intake, ported mustang GT intake mani, MBRP exhaust
OZ tuned
Belltech 2/4 axle flip
VAS traction bars

468whp on e85 through unloaded (dynojet) dyno
405/400 loaded (mustang) dyno

tons of fun and damn is she pretty.

Thats pretty salty for a street truck. I've noticed a huge uptick in people wanting shortwides in the last year or so.

[srvy]

You certainly improved the look of the front end of that Ford. Those blue stripes were awful.

[hometeam]

You certainly improved the look of the front end of that Ford. Those blue stripes were awful.

So the base model truck that it is, it came with a black 2 bar grill. Guy that had it before me put the paint matched 2 bar grill like comes on xlts etc.

I switched it to the STX grill, but really the biggest improvement was going from the base model, 1985, only can see 5 feet in front of you halogen POS headlights to these Alpharex LED headlights. Huge upgrade~

[Buehler445]

Yeah. LED conversions are the answer. But you have to be careful. There are some shit LED conversions out there.

My work wagon has LED. I have no idea how I operated a motor vehicle before LED.

My sprayer has LED that will light up 50 acres like fucking day. LOL. I’m spoiled.

[stevieray]

Took the Elco to the Lake for the wifeys 50th

[srvy]

Calling all Camaro heads!!! Get on the list now to get your personally signed Mario Andretti Camaro pace car signed pool table. Only 20K from Costco.

https://www.costco.com/mario-andretti-signed-1969-camaro-pool-table.product.100657598.html

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/b4/3c/f6b43cc4dfc1186558f056c54f836dc5.png
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0005/2917/0497/products/Mario-Andretti-Camaro-Pace-Car-Mario-Andretti-Playing-Pool-www.CarPoolTables.com_1024x1024.jpg?v=1587752191
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0005/2917/0497/products/MarioAndrettisigned1969PaceCarPoolTableRearCorner_1024x1024.jpg?v=1587752191

[eDave]

I'm 90% sure of the answer but could use some confirmation.

A friend of mine's car was dead the last night so I gave her jumpstart. It's started as soon as I hooked the cables up and turned the ignition.

However, after about 20 minute the lights dimmed, blinked, went off, came back on, etc when in idle but good when giving gas.

She turned it off after around 45 minutes and it was dead again.

Alternator?

[Buehler445]

Alternator.

Takes way more power to turn the engine with a starter than it does to make a tiny little spark.

If it wouldn’t even click I’d start with the battery. But it’s probably alternator. AutoZone type stores should be able to test both.

[eDave]

Alternator.

Takes way more power to turn the engine with a starter than it does to make a tiny little spark.

If it wouldn’t even click I’d start with the battery. But it’s probably alternator. AutoZone type stores should be able to test both.

Thanks, dude. It was clicking. Batteries don't last long out here and, like wiper blades and motor mounts, they get destroyed and need to be replace all the time.

So I considered that and was hopeful it would be that easy. She's not worth wrench time.

[Buehler445]

Thanks, dude. It was clicking. Batteries don't last long out here and, like wiper blades and motor mounts, they get destroyed and need to be replace all the time.

So I considered that and was hopeful it would be that easy. She's not worth wrench time.

LOL. If she’s not worth the wrench then have her take it to a shop LOL. But if there was a click it’s the alternator.

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

My wife picked up a 21 AMG GLE 63 S this weekend. First MB for us. She was coming from a 21 Aviator. Pretty cool ride.

[eDave]

https://i.imgur.com/TKtz0Zs.gif

[displacedinMN]

This is the car I bought for my wife

[lewdog]

I need to change my coolant as it’s been 5 years, even though it hasn’t been many miles, correct?

I’m going to flush it myself. Should I just use distilled water or should I also add one of those coolant flush additives that claim to clean the system?

[Buehler445]

I need to change my coolant as it’s been 5 years, even though it hasn’t been many miles, correct?

I’m going to flush it myself. Should I just use distilled water or should I also add one of those coolant flush additives that claim to clean the system?

Honestly I’ve never done it.

And you should only flush with fluid. It takes a mountain of it but, but invariably you’ll leave some water in there and it will dilute your coolant. You can probably get there if you use straight and circulate it and check it enough. But who does that when 50/50 exists?

[Peter Gibbons]

Honestly I’ve never done it.

And you should only flush with fluid. It takes a mountain of it but, but invariably you’ll leave some water in there and it will dilute your coolant. You can probably get there if you use straight and circulate it and check it enough. But who does that when 50/50 exists?

Agree. It takes a lot of fluid but is easy if you are patient. Good, cheap insurance against issues later. Make sure you use a coolant grade consistent with manufacture’s recommendation. The power flushed done with equipment is riskier IMO if your radiator is older so I like just the idea of drain, fill, circulate, repeat more.

[lewdog]

Honestly I’ve never done it.

And you should only flush with fluid. It takes a mountain of it but, but invariably you’ll leave some water in there and it will dilute your coolant. You can probably get there if you use straight and circulate it and check it enough. But who does that when 50/50 exists?

Agree. It takes a lot of fluid but is easy if you are patient. Good, cheap insurance against issues later. Make sure you use a coolant grade consistent with manufacture’s recommendation. The power flushed done with equipment is riskier IMO if your radiator is older so I like just the idea of drain, fill, circulate, repeat more.

So drain. Fill with distilled water, run car and crank heater. Repeat a few times with just water. Finally add my 4G of correct coolant back in.

Right?

https://www.autozone.com/antifreeze-radiator-additives-and-windshield-wash-fluid/antifreeze-coolant/p/zerex-antifreeze-coolant-premixed-5-year-150k-mile-protection-1-gallon/368286_0_0?spps.s=2714&cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:GEN:71700000069889792&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI94bAna-N8gIVdBatBh02UAwiEAQYAiABEgJyS_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[BigRedChief]

Took the Elco to the Lake for the wifeys 50thThat pic is too dark to show off how cool of a car that is.You did a helluva job on that restore.

[Demonpenz]

my eighty four monte

[Buehler445]

So drain. Fill with distilled water, run car and crank heater. Repeat a few times with just water. Finally add my 4G of correct coolant back in.

Right?

https://www.autozone.com/antifreeze-radiator-additives-and-windshield-wash-fluid/antifreeze-coolant/p/zerex-antifreeze-coolant-premixed-5-year-150k-mile-protection-1-gallon/368286_0_0?spps.s=2714&cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:GEN:71700000069889792&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI94bAna-N8gIVdBatBh02UAwiEAQYAiABEgJyS_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

It depends on how cheap you are. If it’s me:

I drain it
Fill with 50/50
Run it. You have to get it hot enough to open the thermostat and circulate the coolant.
Drain it.
Fill with 50/50.

If you use water you have to be kind of careful, because water boils at a lower temperature than coolant and you don’t want pressure. Moreover there is no chance that you will get all the water out. None. So then you have to mix your own and get it a little strong to account for how much is hanging around in there after you’ve drained it. Then you have to test, run, test and maybe drain some out and try again. And if you mix it too hot it won’t perform well and blah blah blah.

I’ve had irrigation motors that I’ve drained everything, opened all the petcocks turned it upside down the whole bit. Then I go to working on it and I get antifreeze everywhere. And that’s the motor by itself. It’ll hang out in the reservoir, radiator, heater core, everywhere. So you’re signing on for a lot of work to get it back right if you use water.

And Like I said we have some pretty old antifreeze hanging around in places. I know you have to shed more heat than we do, but we also plug radiators with shit, so maybe not.

Especially if it’s not a DD I wouldn’t. Check it in the reservoir. If it’s not discolored or cloudy I’d roll it. Eventually something will go wrong with something somewhere and you’ll have to drain it.

[stevieray]

That pic is too dark to show off how cool of a car that is.You did a helluva job on that restore.

Thanks Dougie!

I just got my seats back from the upholsterer, so my interior is finally finished.

[stevieray]

my eighty four monte

Gbody!

:rockon:

[Buehler445]

my eighty four monte

I’m not sure I’ve seen one in the wild that the vinyl wasn’t cracked on the back of the cab.

Beautiful color.

[lewdog]

It depends on how cheap you are. If it’s me:

I drain it
Fill with 50/50
Run it. You have to get it hot enough to open the thermostat and circulate the coolant.
Drain it.
Fill with 50/50.

If you use water you have to be kind of careful, because water boils at a lower temperature than coolant and you don’t want pressure. Moreover there is no chance that you will get all the water out. None. So then you have to mix your own and get it a little strong to account for how much is hanging around in there after you’ve drained it. Then you have to test, run, test and maybe drain some out and try again. And if you mix it too hot it won’t perform well and blah blah blah.

I’ve had irrigation motors that I’ve drained everything, opened all the petcocks turned it upside down the whole bit. Then I go to working on it and I get antifreeze everywhere. And that’s the motor by itself. It’ll hang out in the reservoir, radiator, heater core, everywhere. So you’re signing on for a lot of work to get it back right if you use water.

And Like I said we have some pretty old antifreeze hanging around in places. I know you have to shed more heat than we do, but we also plug radiators with shit, so maybe not.

Especially if it’s not a DD I wouldn’t. Check it in the reservoir. If it’s not discolored or cloudy I’d roll it. Eventually something will go wrong with something somewhere and you’ll have to drain it.

What do you mean by the last part? Don’t do anything if it looks fine? Fluid looks fine as this is about 10k of usage on the Mustang but 5 years old so I thought I needed to drain it just because of age.

[Buehler445]

What do you mean by the last part? Fluid looks fine as this is about 10k of usage on the Mustang but 5 years old so I thought I needed to drain it just because of age.

The “you need to change it after x amount of time” thing comes from the possibility of it corroding your system. That’s less likely these days because they’re using better materials. If you had a 75 ford, it would probably corrode the tubes shut in your radiator. That’s less likely these days with better materials and higher quality coolant.

Look at the antifreeze in the reservoir. If it’s nice and bright colored I wouldn’t mess with it.

This is an absurd example. It won’t look anything like this, but you get the picture.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mHTM3dvpD1M/maxresdefault.jpg

[lewdog]

The “you need to change it after x amount of time” thing comes from the possibility of it corroding your system. That’s less likely these days because they’re using better materials. If you had a 75 ford, it would probably corrode the tubes shut in your radiator. That’s less likely these days with better materials and higher quality coolant.

Look at the antifreeze in the reservoir. If it’s nice and bright colored I wouldn’t mess with it.

This is an absurd example. It won’t look anything like this, but you get the picture.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mHTM3dvpD1M/maxresdefault.jpg

Wonder if I should just drain it with gravity and then fill back up? That would be easy but wouldn’t leave water in the system.

My mechanic changed it 5 years ago and put the good stuff in it because I changed all my fluids: power steering, coolant, transmission, rear differential and brake fluid. We discussed all the higher end fluids and they put in what I asked for like Royal Purple gear and transmission oil. So I think I’ll ignore it like you say.

Only 10k miles on all those fluids.



Thanks so much.

[srvy]

I need to change my coolant as it’s been 5 years, even though it hasn’t been many miles, correct?

I’m going to flush it myself. Should I just use distilled water or should I also add one of those coolant flush additives that claim to clean the system?

This is how my Dad taught me to do it long ago. We didn't use the cleaning chemical don't know if it was around then. Plain garden hose water is fine. The 70 30 mix compensates for the water that doesn't get drained out. I only use the 50/50 to top up. Straight is the way to go just like your bourbon.

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[Demonpenz]

Gbody!

:rockon:

Oh year.

[srvy]

There is a lot of info out there about why you should never take your car to shop to power flush the radiator.

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

I mentioned that my wife got a new Mercedes AMG GLE 63 S last week.
The good: It's luxury and power combined very well.
The bad: At 530 miles it is dead, stuck in park, and waiting on a tow truck. It has a 12V and 48V system. It seems like the 12V system has died but who knows ��

[lewdog]

I mentioned that my wife got a new Mercedes AMG GLE 63 S last week.
The good: It's luxury and power combined very well.
The bad: At 530 miles it is dead, stuck in park, and waiting on a tow truck. It has a 12V and 48V system. It seems like the 12V system has died but who knows ��

Well that's shitty luck. Try out a piece of shit Honda next time. Those things never die!

[lewdog]

Best place to list a car to sell privately?

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Anybody in the market for 20 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 2-Door? It has 2200 highway miles and has never been off-road. It has almost every option. I'll be looking for average KBB pricing.

[Bearcat]

I mentioned that my wife got a new Mercedes AMG GLE 63 S last week.
The good: It's luxury and power combined very well.
The bad: At 530 miles it is dead, stuck in park, and waiting on a tow truck. It has a 12V and 48V system. It seems like the 12V system has died but who knows ��

Holy shit those specs... a 3.7 second SUV and over 600 torque :eek: LMAO

I mean, infinitely slower at the moment (sorry, couldn't resist).

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Holy shit those specs... a 3.7 second SUV and over 600 torque :eek: LMAO

I mean, infinitely slower at the moment (sorry, couldn't resist).

LOL, hopefully not for long. From visiting some forums it seems like there's been a bad batch of 48V batteries.

The 0-60 time is the exact same as my truck (TRX). I haven't really got on the Mercedes yet of course.

[lewdog]

Anybody in the market for 20 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 2-Door? It has 2200 highway miles and has never been off-road. It has almost every option. I'll be looking for average KBB pricing.

Damn that’s really nice. I’d love a Jeep here in the southwest. I just wish they were more reliable.

[srvy]

Damn that’s really nice. I’d love a Jeep here in the southwest. I just wish they were more reliable.

Won't happen till Fiat's completely out of the picture.

[lewdog]

Won't happen till Fiat's completely out of the picture.

That’s the truth!

[lewdog]

Any experience with bring a trailer?

https://bringatrailer.com/

[MIAdragon]

Any experience with bring a trailer?

https://bringatrailer.com/

Yes, I’ve sold a few Porsches through there. They need to accept your car, then schedule it for auction and that could take a month or two then they will pressure you into a price range or try to get you to sell below what you want as the auction in on going. All in all I’ve had both positive and negative experiences on BAT.

[lewdog]

Yes, I’ve sold a few Porsches through there. They need to accept your car, then schedule it for auction and that could take a month or two then they will pressure you into a price range or try to get you to sell below what you want as the auction in on going. All in all I’ve had both positive and negative experiences on BAT.

Good to know, thank you.

[lewdog]

Any experience with Mycaraution? They offered me a cash price that is more fair than any other place so far, including local dealers.

https://mycarauction.com/

I just submitted an inspection request from them.

[HC_Chief]

I have wanted a C8 since I first saw it, but procrastinated on the purchase. My bad, for sure, as now I can either get a used one with some of the features I want, but not all of them, or I can put in an order and hope & wait...

OR I can buy a new Challenger widebody Scat Pack 392 and immediately enjoy the throwback old school muscle car styling paired with a nearly 500bhp/475ft lb torque and enjoy. So yeah, I did the latter. She is a bad beast, let me tell you. I frigging love this car! (I'll still likely get a C8 Z06...maybe next year?)

https://imgur.com/a/5BYQmzP

[MIAdragon]

I have wanted a C8 since I first saw it, but procrastinated on the purchase. My bad, for sure, as now I can either get a used one with some of the features I want, but not all of them, or I can put in an order and hope & wait...

OR I can buy a new Challenger widebody Scat Pack 392 and immediately enjoy the throwback old school muscle car styling paired with a nearly 500bhp/475ft lb torque and enjoy. So yeah, I did the latter. She is a bad beast, let me tell you. I frigging love this car! (I'll still likely get a C8 Z06...maybe next year?)

https://imgur.com/a/5BYQmzP

Two totally different rides. I’m not a fan of the C8 styling but you can’t ignore the performance.

[HC_Chief]

Two totally different rides. I’m not a fan of the C8 styling but you can’t ignore the performance.

Yeah, for sure; did not intend to conflate the two. The C8 is definitely more of an exotic whereas the Challenger is a throwback muscle car.

You are absolutely correct re: C8 performance. Daaaamn that is an impressive machine.

[MIAdragon]

Any experience with Mycaraution? They offered me a cash price that is more fair than any other place so far, including local dealers.

https://mycarauction.com/

I just submitted an inspection request from them.

Throw it up on Facebook market place, I bet it goes for much more than a reseller is going to offer you.

[Dunerdr]

As i transition from a kid to an adult and father im wanting a different things from my car. It's a 67 chevy II with 496 and th400 with a manual valve body. I'm currently shopping the Holley Xflow kit for an efi conversion and searching for a 4l80e to make the overdrive conversion. All that said has anyone used the holley or similar efi systems? I've researched holley extensively and the xflow feels like the fit for me. All calculations lead me to an estimated 655 hp and all the other units are rated for 650hp or a lot more. The Xflow seems to be a happy medium.

[lewdog]

Throw it up on Facebook market place, I bet it goes for much more than a reseller is going to offer you.

I just placed it on marketplace and for $49 on Autotrader.

Thank you.

[lewdog]

I just placed it on marketplace and for $49 on Autotrader.

Thank you.

It never posted to marketplace and now when I try it won’t let me hit “next” because it says “try lowering the price to attract buyers,” even though price I’m selling for is within their high end KBB value for this car stated right on the same page. Seems Facebook is regulating prices so it won’t let me post it.

[MIAdragon]

It never posted to marketplace and now when I try it won’t let me hit “next” because it says “try lowering the price to attract buyers,” even though price I’m selling for is within their high end KBB value for this car stated right on the same page. Seems Facebook is regulating prices so it won’t let me post it.

Strange can you lower it by just a little to get it to go? I’m definitely not a market place expert by any means.

[lewdog]

Strange can you lower it by just a little to get it to go? I’m definitely not a market place expert by any means.

I posted it at the top of their KKB value and it wouldn’t go. I had to list it $800 under their “highest” KBB value to get it to post. Pretty strange. Why suggest that range then?!?!

I then listed actual selling price in my description. I would take a bit less than my posted price but always start higher. I’m in no hurry here. Shitty they do that though.

[Perineum Ripper]

I have seen where people put in 12345 as the price and in the description they put in the price they want. Facebook has some sort of regulations in price, so it makes it weird to post vehicles. May try to delete the add then do something like that to see if it takes

[MIAdragon]

I posted it at the top of their KKB value and it wouldn’t go. I had to list it $800 under their “highest” KBB value to get it to post. Pretty strange. Why suggest that range then?!?!

I then listed actual selling price in my description. I would take a bit less than my posted price but always start higher. I’m in no hurry here. Shitty they do that though.

Car looks good, you have pics of it clean and outside?

[Marcellus]

As i transition from a kid to an adult and father im wanting a different things from my car. It's a 67 chevy II with 496 and th400 with a manual valve body. I'm currently shopping the Holley Xflow kit for an efi conversion and searching for a 4l80e to make the overdrive conversion. All that said has anyone used the holley or similar efi systems? I've researched holley extensively and the xflow feels like the fit for me. All calculations lead me to an estimated 655 hp and all the other units are rated for 650hp or a lot more. The Xflow seems to be a happy medium.

I have a Fitech EFI on my 65' Chevy II with a 434CI SBC. You will get mixed reviews if you search online but 95% of issues are user/installer related. Fitech systems (they have different options) can handle up to 1200HP with the proper fuel system.

Seems all of the off the shelf EFI has their plusses and minuses. One thing I would make sure of is you can get one that you can turn off the self learning feature at some point as they tend to hit a top of the learning curve and go off the back end basically detuning. I'm taking my car to get dyno tuned and have them turn off the self learn mode.

[ModSocks]

I have a Fitech EFI on my 65' Chevy II with a 434CI SBC. You will get mixed reviews if you search online but 95% of issues are user/installer related. Fitech systems (they have different options) can handle up to 1200HP with the proper fuel system.

Seems all of the off the shelf EFI has their plusses and minuses. One thing I would make sure of is you can get one that you can turn off the self learning feature at some point as they tend to hit a top of the learning curve and go off the back end basically detuning. I'm taking my car to get dyno tuned and have them turn off the self learn mode.

I actually know the owner of Fi-tech. He used one of his early systems on one of our Mustangs over a decade ago. Came to our shop to install it. Turbo charged 392. Back then it was "RetroTek". Then he sold that and it became "Powerjection". He restarted again and it became Fi-Tech.

When it comes to these sorts of systems my advice would be to still have it tuned by a professional tuner. I know they're suppose to be self learning etc, but we always found best results by getting it tuned.

And it's not just Fi-Tech, it's any of those throttle body EFI kits really. People have mixed reviews on all of them, not just Fi-Tech.

[lewdog]

Car looks good, you have pics of it clean and outside?

Lol yes. Did you find my post?

I just added some others but it’s not letting me move them to the front of the post on Facebook from my phone.

Also if someone says I’ll pay you $1k less because I hate the wheels, I’ll take it. ROFL

[ModSocks]

As i transition from a kid to an adult and father im wanting a different things from my car. It's a 67 chevy II with 496 and th400 with a manual valve body. I'm currently shopping the Holley Xflow kit for an efi conversion and searching for a 4l80e to make the overdrive conversion. All that said has anyone used the holley or similar efi systems? I've researched holley extensively and the xflow feels like the fit for me. All calculations lead me to an estimated 655 hp and all the other units are rated for 650hp or a lot more. The Xflow seems to be a happy medium.

Just know that with any of these EFI kits, it'll need a tune. They advertise that it works great out of the box, and that's why they get mixed reviews. Because it doesn't. You're effectively building a custom car, so "works right out the box" is kinda bullshit to begin with because every car is different.

I am a Holley dealer. Just understand that Holley tech service is atrocious. It's really fucking bad, man.

They're too big. They're so busy buying everyone out, but they haven't improved at all on the customer service side. It's like they haven't grown their team, despite buying out all these brands. So when you call expect a long hold. And don't expect top notch service. They're regarded pretty horribly by those who deal with them regularly.

I have a customer who NEVER got his Sniper EFI system issue resolved. Which included them sending a bad part twice. Luckily he didn't buy it from me so i didn't deal with it, but still, sucks for him.

I probably shouldn't be saying that since im a dealer, but as a fellow CPer, you should know.

[MIAdragon]

Hey Detoxing, I’m running a Holley dominator on a twin plug air cooled 3.6 and can NOT get the second set of plugs to fire. Any ideas?

[loochy]

Hey Detoxing, I’m running a Holley dominator on a twin plug air cooled 3.6 and can NOT get the second set of plugs to fire. Any ideas?




Let's start at the beginning. Did you try connecting the wire to the plugs?

[ModSocks]

Hey Detoxing, I’m running a Holley dominator on a twin plug air cooled 3.6 and can NOT get the second set of plugs to fire. Any ideas?

I'll ask one of my guys and let you know.

[MIAdragon]

Let's start at the beginning. Did you try connecting the wire to the plugs?

It’s a Bluetooth wasted spark setup.

[loochy]

It’s a Bluetooth wasted spark setup.


Wow, I didn't know there was such a thing. That's pretty cool.

[ModSocks]

Wow, I didn't know there was such a thing. That's pretty cool.

Bluetooth every fucking thing these days.

I sell a pretty dope blue tooth distributor that allows you to adjust timing in real time, and has an integrated ignition kill switch. Connect your phone, type in a 4-digit code and boom, ignition disabled.

These aftermarket A/C manufactures integrate bluetooth now too. You can set the temp and manage onboard diagnostics, such as pressure, leaks, open flaps etc via your phone.

[MIAdragon]

Wow, I didn't know there was such a thing. That's pretty cool.

Totally messing with you.

[Buehler445]

Hey Detoxing, I’m running a Holley dominator on a twin plug air cooled 3.6 and can NOT get the second set of plugs to fire. Any ideas?

I found the problem. :D

I’m not brave enough to run anything aircooled. Hell I wish the Honda’s on my transfer pumps were water cooled. I mean the goddamned seal on the pump is water cooled.

[Marcellus]

Bluetooth every ****ing thing these days.

I sell a pretty dope blue tooth distributor that allows you to adjust timing in real time, and has an integrated ignition kill switch. Connect your phone, type in a 4-digit code and boom, ignition disabled.

These aftermarket A/C manufactures integrate bluetooth now too. You can set the temp and manage onboard diagnostics, such as pressure, leaks, open flaps etc via your phone.

You may have already seen these they been around a while but my car has an Infinity Box smart wiring harness. I can log in and arm it and it shuts off the fuel pump and ignition etc... https://www.infinitybox.com/

There are no direct connections between the start button and the starter/fuel pump etc...its all communications. Its basically hotwire proof. Pretty much the only way to steal my car is to use a wrecker which of course could still happen.

I suppose you could bring a spool of wire and do a lot of wiring work but that would be time consuming.

Was a bitch to integrate with some other stuff the car has since all inputs to the harness are ground inputs rather than hot.

[MIAdragon]

I found the problem. :D

I’m not brave enough to run anything aircooled. Hell I wish the Honda’s on my transfer pumps were water cooled. I mean the goddamned seal on the pump is water cooled.

Brother Im right there with you. These thing make shit power, leak like there’s no tomorrow and are ridiculous expensive. I’m just not intelligent enough to say no more.

[Buehler445]

Brother Im right there with you. These thing make shit power, leak like there’s no tomorrow and are ridiculous expensive. I’m just not intelligent enough to say no more.

ROFL.

Fair enough. What’s it on?

[ModSocks]

You may have already seen these they been around a while but my car has an Infinity Box smart wiring harness. I can log in and arm it and it shuts off the fuel pump and ignition etc... https://www.infinitybox.com/

There are no direct connections between the start button and the starter/fuel pump etc...its all communications. Its basically hotwire proof. Pretty much the only way to steal my car is to use a wrecker which of course could still happen.

I suppose you could bring a spool of wire and do a lot of wiring work but that would be time consuming.

Was a bitch to integrate with some other stuff the car has since all inputs to the harness are ground inputs rather than hot.

Ive heard of it, had customers who use it. Never had one in the shop though.

[MIAdragon]

ROFL.

Fair enough. What’s it on?

An old 911.

[lewdog]

An old 911.

Dude, that’s badass.

[Buehler445]

An old 911.

Nice.

Buddy of mine had an air cooled motor on a combine of all things. He said he melted it. LOL oops.

[MIAdragon]

Dude, that’s badass.

Appreciate it, yours sell?

[lewdog]

Appreciate it, yours sell?

Nah. It's priced probably too high and the market looks pretty saturated. Good thing I can wait this out awhile but I'd gladly take less if the process could be smooth.

[lewdog]

I had someone message me on Autotrader about seeing the car today. What should I be doing now to avoid scammers and wasting my time?

[Bearcat]

I had someone message me on Autotrader about seeing the car today. What should I be doing now to avoid scammers and wasting my time?

Tell them upfront you'll only accept cash or to meet them at their bank so they can write a check to the bank and get a certified check.

[lewdog]

Tell them upfront you'll only accept cash or to meet them at their bank so they can write a check to the bank and get a certified check.

I did read that. Thank you.

I think it's less scammy if someone actually wants to look at the car vs the messages you get about sending more pictures because they are out of state or overseas. I got one that was typed poorly and asking about more pictures but when I asked for clarification, they didn't respond.

We will see if they are serious about seeing it soon and I'll meet them at a local grocery store parking lot to do this.

[lewdog]

Sold the Mustang today to the mycarauction place. They paid me what I purchased the car for 6 years ago and the entire process today took 30 minutes at my house.

Time is money and my higher priced listing on Autotrader and Facebook Marketplace generated very few real leads. The Mustang market appears pretty saturated, especially here in the desert. And I think many are looking for a 5.0.

[MIAdragon]

Sold the Mustang today to the mycarauction place. They paid me what I purchased the car for 6 years ago and the entire process today took 30 minutes at my house.

Time is money and my higher priced listing on Autotrader and Facebook Marketplace generated very few real leads. The Mustang market appears pretty saturated, especially here in the desert. And I think many are looking for a 5.0.

Congrats.

[Bearcat]

Sold the Mustang today to the mycarauction place. They paid me what I purchased the car for 6 years ago and the entire process today took 30 minutes at my house.

Time is money and my higher priced listing on Autotrader and Facebook Marketplace generated very few real leads. The Mustang market appears pretty saturated, especially here in the desert. And I think many are looking for a 5.0.

Maybe someone will drive it now!

[Buehler445]

Good deal Lew.

Now you have some jack to YOLO on AMC!

[lewdog]

Maybe someone will drive it now!

I hope so!

I think when my son leaves the house I’ll get another for fun car but this time I’ll get to choose it (fuck black!).

Good deal Lew.

Now you have some jack to YOLO on AMC!

Exactly. Which stock do I put my money on?

Honestly, I need a new daily driver now.

[Buehler445]

I hope so!

I think when my son leaves the house I’ll get another for fun car but this time I’ll get to choose it (fuck black!).



Exactly. Which stock do I put my money on?

Honestly, I need a new daily driver now.

Lambo after the AMC squeeze!

[lewdog]

When's the estimate the car inventory returns to more normal levels? I am just browsing, and while I can find at least some in the vast Phoenix metro that match searches, it does seem rather limited. And of course, dealers are using that against you by telling you that it's the only model on their lot that has matched your criteria for make/model/trim, so come quick!

[Buehler445]

When's the estimate the car inventory returns to more normal levels? I am just browsing, and while I can find at least some in the vast Phoenix metro that match searches, it does seem rather limited. And of course, dealers are using that against you by telling you that it's the only model on their lot that has matched your criteria for make/model/trim, so come quick!

It’ll be awhile after all the chips get shipped, cars get delivered, and the apparently inelastic demand gets filled and the associated ripples move through the market.

So awhile.

[hometeam]

When's the estimate the car inventory returns to more normal levels? I am just browsing, and while I can find at least some in the vast Phoenix metro that match searches, it does seem rather limited. And of course, dealers are using that against you by telling you that it's the only model on their lot that has matched your criteria for make/model/trim, so come quick!

April at the earliest if everything else goes right.

[SuperBowl4]

:arrow:GO CHIEFS!:arrow:

[lewdog]

It’ll be awhile after all the chips get shipped, cars get delivered, and the apparently inelastic demand gets filled and the associated ripples move through the market.

So awhile.

April at the earliest if everything else goes right.

Yeah I heard next summer/fall.

Dang that’s crazy.

[lewdog]

April at the earliest if everything else goes right.

Honest opinion, is it better to buy new currently? I’m finding the price of a new car is almost identical to a lightly used one of the same model that’s 1-2 years old.

[lewdog]

General maintenance question. Overall question is can dealership see if I’ve had work done by independent mechanic?

We have a 2016 Mazda CX-9 with 37k miles. The regular maintenance recommendations see very limited and that concerns me.

1. Lifetime transmission fluid in Skyactiv engines. Only change if car is submerged or needs transmission repair.
2. No mention of changing brake fluid at all.
3. Coolant replacement at 120k miles or 10 years.

Thoughts on these concerns? I feel like cheap preventative maintenance such as these is just smart to do. We want the car to last 5+ more years.

If I was to avoid the dealership to have the brake fluid and coolant changed by my independent mechanic, could the dealership find that out easily and void the remaining warranty we have on the car?

[Buehler445]

General maintenance question. Overall question is can dealership see if I’ve had work done by independent mechanic?

We have a 2016 Mazda CX-9 with 37k miles. The regular maintenance recommendations see very limited and that concerns me.

1. Lifetime transmission fluid in Skyactiv engines. Only change if car is submerged or needs transmission repair.
2. No mention of changing brake fluid at all.
3. Coolant replacement at 120k miles or 10 years.

Thoughts on these concerns? I feel like cheap preventative maintenance such as these is just smart to do. We want the car to last 5+ more years.

If I was to avoid the dealership to have the brake fluid and coolant changed by my independent mechanic, could the dealership find that out easily and void the remaining warranty we have on the car?

To answer your question, no.

But I wouldn't fuck with it. I had an 06 pontiac that had a sealed transmission. That's like literally not a thing, unless you're operating outside of the engineered parameters.

I've never, ever heard of anyone wanting to drain and replace brake fluid, sure add more if they leak or you have to replace a cylinder, but that isn't a thing.

We talked about my position on coolant.

Machines and materials are better these days. They just are.

[MIAdragon]

General maintenance question. Overall question is can dealership see if I’ve had work done by independent mechanic?

We have a 2016 Mazda CX-9 with 37k miles. The regular maintenance recommendations see very limited and that concerns me.

1. Lifetime transmission fluid in Skyactiv engines. Only change if car is submerged or needs transmission repair.
2. No mention of changing brake fluid at all.
3. Coolant replacement at 120k miles or 10 years.

Thoughts on these concerns? I feel like cheap preventative maintenance such as these is just smart to do. We want the car to last 5+ more years.

If I was to avoid the dealership to have the brake fluid and coolant changed by my independent mechanic, could the dealership find that out easily and void the remaining warranty we have on the car?

DONT touch the trans fluid. The brake, if the color is good and level I’d fine leave alone. The coolant is the only thing I’d play with.

[lewdog]

To answer your question, no.

But I wouldn't fuck with it. I had an 06 pontiac that had a sealed transmission. That's like literally not a thing, unless you're operating outside of the engineered parameters.

I've never, ever heard of anyone wanting to drain and replace brake fluid, sure add more if they leak or you have to replace a cylinder, but that isn't a thing.

We talked about my position on coolant.

Machines and materials are better these days. They just are.

DONT touch the trans fluid. The brake, if the color is good and level I’d fine leave alone. The coolant is the only thing I’d play with.

You fine gentleman are outstanding. I think my thinking might be more old school where you replaced all the fluids every 30k or 3 years: power steering, brake, coolant and transmission. It's just not needed on these sealed systems anymore, is it? So lifetime transmission fluid is a thing, huh?

So I won't touch the transmission or brake fluid then. The brake fluid is super clean and I clean the engine compartment sporadically and this car is garaged.

The coolant looks super clean as well so maybe I will just leave until the 10 year mark like it suggests. It says change at 10 years or 120k miles, and after that every 60k or 5 years.

Here's the maintenance schedule for reference.

Looks like only thing I'm coming up on is spark plugs. The car has electric power steering so no fluid there.

Here’s the suggested maintenance. Everything look ok? Some people claim that they don’t recommend changing fluids as often anymore is just companies trying to cut down on waste and that you should be doing it anyway. Or claiming that they don’t recommend it because it helps buyers think a car is almost maintenance free and they hope you don’t keep your car that long for much of it to matter, or if you do, lack of basic maintenance, since it’s not recommended, will wear out your car faster so you have to buy a new one. (Internet forum talk on these points).
https://www.mazdausa.com/siteassets/pdf/owners-optimized/2016/cx9/2016-cx-9-maintenance-schedule.pdf

[hometeam]

Honest opinion, is it better to buy new currently? I’m finding the price of a new car is almost identical to a lightly used one of the same model that’s 1-2 years old.

Yep, if thats your market those lightly used ones, might as well buy new, value is better in the current market, especially if you qualify for APR incentives etc. In some cases you might end up paying more for a slightly used.

[ModSocks]

I've never, ever heard of anyone wanting to drain and replace brake fluid, sure add more if they leak or you have to replace a cylinder, but that isn't a thing.





It's an old car thing, mostly.

Cars that use rubber hoses in their brake systems, especially those in bad weather. Moisture can actually seep into the rubber components of brake systems, even though DOT 3-5 can't seep out. When that moisture seeps in, it creates steam in the brake system as the moisture just builds up. That can cause gumming of the brake fluid in cars that aren't used regularly.

[Indian Chief]

Wife had a 2007 VW Rabbit before we got married. Lifetime trans fluid. I've been around cars my whole life and was skeptical, but I wasn't going to mess with the warranty and washed my hands of it. Turns out that 6 or 7 years later VW changed their mind and suddenly was recommending a 75k ish change interval. Car already had 100k+ so I did it at that time. Point is, lifetime fluids is a really, really high engineering bar. I'm still skeptical, but I do agree with not messing around under the warranty.

[lewdog]

Yep, if thats your market those lightly used ones, might as well buy new, value is better in the current market, especially if you qualify for APR incentives etc. In some cases you might end up paying more for a slightly used.

Spot on because I’m noticing this. Cash off ($750) for a new car, plus my 800 credit score could possibly land me 0% interest on a new ride. The used is priced almost similar but no incentives. Weird times!

[Buehler445]

It's an old car thing, mostly.

Cars that use rubber hoses in their brake systems, especially those in bad weather. Moisture can actually seep into the rubber components of brake systems, even though DOT 3-5 can't seep out. When that moisture seeps in, it creates steam in the brake system as the moisture just builds up. That can cause gumming of the brake fluid in cars that aren't used regularly.

Yeah. And if you think about it, old cars aren’t really that old in the lifecycle of internal combustion.

Ford started making the model T in 1908 and didn’t stop until 1927. Shit wasn’t changing too fast early on. Cars didn’t really get competitive until after WWII. Shit didn’t happen during the depression and rations were on during the war. Cars got competitive ( which bred innovation) post ‘45. Then you look at a 69 mustang or Camaro that’s really only 25 years after things really started moving. And after the 70s, when they all got killed for reliability, they really started to push engineering standards.

So the “golden age” muscle cars that gear heads love (because they fucking rule, let’s be real here) is like owning a Motorola startac. Yes, it was infinitely better than bag phones or the Zach Morris phones but today’s cars are like iPhones.

Spot on because I’m noticing this. Cash off ($750) for a new car, plus my 800 credit score could possibly land me 0% interest on a new ride. The used is priced almost similar but no incentives. Weird times!
Shits weird man

[hometeam]

We back in the game baby!!

So I got a random text from a guy who used to work for me, and verbatim went;

"want to buy a race car?"
"Sure"

So my guy calls me and says the dude he works for now has been bitching that his garage is being taken up by a corvette that he hasnt fucked with for years. We commence to talk, dude knows nothing about cars and says yea it needs a wiring harness, so im thinking maybe its a rats next of wiring issues etc.

Anyways I check into it, get dudes number, call him up and arrange a time to come see this corvette hes done with..

I get there, the car is in great shape, starts up and runs (badly) ands DOES need a harness for the fuel injectors (common issue on LS motors) Says he had a heads and cam package put on the car, brought it home, parked it, never been tuned, never been drivin since, and hes tired of looking at it.

I get to looking at it and bargaining with the dude, and let me tell you, I absolutely stole this car. The car drove onto and off of the trailer.

06 C6 Vette, 93k miles.
6 speed car
6.0 ls2 heads/cam/supporting mods

https://i.imgur.com/qCmHWWj.jpg

The car does need that injector harness, which the guy included, its also going to need a couple sensors like the coolant temp sensor is broken off at the block, and we need to get new oil and gass into it before trying to run it when those are replaced as well. Even if I found the motor was toast I would be in this thing so fucking right if I said the number your eyeballs would pop out of your head.

Gives me a good little project, as if you have been around in this thread for some time, you know I like to tinker.

Anyone else been doing race car shit?

[loochy]

Hell yeah! You can find some good deals on C6 vettes these days.


I bet with the high mileage, the mechanical (electrical) issue, and him being tired of it, you took that MFer for under $20k

[hometeam]

Hell yeah! You can find some good deals on C6 vettes these days.


I bet with the high mileage, the mechanical (electrical) issue, and him being tired of it, you took that MFer for under $20k


i mean 90k is nothing for these cars, but

https://media1.giphy.com/media/THlB4bsoSA0Cc/200.gif

[ModSocks]

Cool.

I have no new stories. We just got our Twin-Turbo Coyote swap coupe back from the stereo shop, so we'll continue reassembling that. We took it all apart months ago to send everything to powder coaters/polishers etc. We had every single nut and bolt anodized too.

We gotta head up to Sacramento in the next week as we just picked up two more build jobs, more as favor to a long time customer/friend who's tired of his cars sitting up at that shop not getting worked on.

One is a restomod '66 Mustang Convertible, the other is a '73 Camaro that's being turned into a Pro-Touring car. We don't normally do Camaros but again...friend.

[Marcellus]

My old beater is in the process of getting some paint fixed and new rear frame rails so we moved them in a bit and widened the tubs another 3" or so. Should be able to fit a 14-15" tire under it now. :-)

So hopefully, finally, by this next spring we will have some new Forgelines on her and the Procharger installed with a locked in tune on the EFI.

Or I might sell the thing looking at what classic car process are going for now.

[hometeam]

Cool.

I have no new stories. We just got our Twin-Turbo Coyote swap coupe back from the stereo shop, so we'll continue reassembling that. We took it all apart months ago to send everything to powder coaters/polishers etc. We had every single nut and bolt anodized too.

We gotta head up to Sacramento in the next week as we just picked up two more build jobs, more as favor to a long time customer/friend who's tired of his cars sitting up at that shop not getting worked on.

One is a restomod '66 Mustang Convertible, the other is a '73 Camaro that's being turned into a Pro-Touring car. We don't normally do Camaros but again...friend.

Nothing wrong with that, yall do it up right. You should post more pics of the shit you are building

[Holladay]

Getting my grandfathers old '90 Scottsdale truck back soon. It had a straight 6 in it (busted rods thrown) and dropping a 350 in. It is a nice old pickup. I am looking forward to put it in my small "stable".

Some weak sauce, but I like reading this thread and all the goofy knowledge you guys have.

[Buehler445]

No race car shit. Other than dad sold his camaro. I’m proud of him. It was hurting my soul to watch it rot at the back of our shop.

[lewdog]

Sold the fun car and bought a dad car.

I'm getting old and even more practical. Only thing I don't want is the dad bod.

I love that 'Vette, hometeam.

[Buehler445]

Interestingly, my nephew that works for us got a job offer. So I did a bunch of math on H2A guys because 0% chance were getting someone local and determined it was best to go try and pay him. So we started negotiating.

Apparently the goofy fucker values having no bills over money. So we’re picking up some of his bills. One thing he wanted was a company vehicle. I was sticky on no personal use and he was fine. Now on the farm we have a bunch of older pickups that have quite a bit of life at our usage rate. But not so much if you add 10-12 a year of commuting. Then I’m in the pickup market which is retarded out here. That shit ain’t happening. So the fucker is getting a car. The commute is all on rough ass county roads so it needs to hold together. Will (not often) have to traverse mud so it needs to be front wheel drive.

I haven’t started looking in earnest but will soon. Any ideas? There were a couple cheap ass crown vics I almost pulled the trigger on but I don’t want to fuck with a rear wheel drive car. Like at all. Mail lady drove a Taurus. I’m probably leaning that direction.

[Buehler445]

Interestingly, my nephew that works for us got a job offer. So I did a bunch of math on H2A guys because 0% chance were getting someone local and determined it was best to go try and pay him. So we started negotiating.

Apparently the goofy fucker values having no bills over money. So we’re picking up some of his bills. One thing he wanted was a company vehicle. I was sticky on no personal use and he was fine. Now on the farm we have a bunch of older pickups that have quite a bit of life at our usage rate. But not so much if you add 10-12 a year of commuting. Then I’m in the pickup market which is retarded out here. That shit ain’t happening. So the fucker is getting a car. The commute is all on rough ass county roads so it needs to hold together. Will (not often) have to traverse mud so it needs to be front wheel drive.

I haven’t started looking in earnest but will soon. Any ideas? There were a couple cheap ass crown vics I almost pulled the trigger on but I don’t want to fuck with a rear wheel drive car. Like at all. Mail lady drove a Taurus. I’m probably leaning that direction.

[TinyEvel]

This week I'm replacing the master cylinder, brake booster and hoses and shoes on my 1972 VW camper van. Does that count?

Oh that reminds me, Hey what is the best power bleeder? Anyone use the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Automotive Pneumatic kit?

[Holladay]

1972 VW camper van. Does that count?

You are up my alley!

Actually, that would be a fun car to own. I have some fun memories in those VWs.

[Holladay]

my nephew

Apparently the goofy ****er

I think Yugo's come in front wheel drive. Especially since you value his work ethic so much. Put some Blizzaks on it and let him go.

[Buehler445]

I think Yugo's come in front wheel drive. Especially since you value his work ethic so much. Put some Blizzaks on it and let him go.

LOL. I don’t want to pay him to work on it THAT much.

He’s actually a really good kid and a good employee. Which is remarkable given the fact that he was raised by my cunt sister.

[hometeam]

Sold the fun car and bought a dad car.

I'm getting old and even more practical. Only thing I don't want is the dad bod.

I love that 'Vette, hometeam.

You can have a sick dad car my dude.

My dad car is my single cab truck posted earlier in the thread, it turns heads at every corner, people honking and shit, every drive through i have employees or people pulling up next to me saying sweet ride etc.

Same thing with my RS, was a dad car. Shit, there are lots of good, sick af dad cars out there!

[TinyEvel]

You are up my alley!

Actually, that would be a fun car to own. I have some fun memories in those VWs.

Yeah it's a lot of fun. All original with 77K original miles and complete interior. here we are tailgating...

[lewdog]

You can have a sick dad car my dude.

My dad car is my single cab truck posted earlier in the thread, it turns heads at every corner, people honking and shit, every drive through i have employees or people pulling up next to me saying sweet ride etc.

Same thing with my RS, was a dad car. Shit, there are lots of good, sick af dad cars out there!

I’m too practical now.

I sold the Mustang and bought a new Mazda 3 hatchback. I wouldn’t call it sick but it’s very comfy to drive.

[hometeam]

Been a while.. a couple months maybe, but I did some things. Starting with a rescued a corvette from a barn where it had sat for 4+ years and did a ton of work to make it right.

Starting out I was able to pull it onto the trailer but it ran like complete dogshit, multiple cylinders down, on flat tires, a 20 and 22 inch combo LOL

https://imgur.com/ley5Ghl.png

Ill try and say all the shit I did to get it running right, without a ton of explanation;
Fixed 6 injector harness wires, fixed coolant temp sensor broken off in block, fixed broken MAF plug, new injectors, new rockers, new lifters, new lifter trays, tune. Also did wheels and tires to replace the junk that was on there, and then eventually ANOTHER set of wheels and tires (i have a problem STFU )

That POS covered in an inch of dust that didn't run turned into this.

https://imgur.com/8YBRwkB.png

and then that other set of wheels and tires

https://imgur.com/vXMs7cs.png

So this got me into a lot of vette research, internet browsing, slobbering, and wishing...

so much that last night i brought this home.

https://imgur.com/YE99tcF.png

And holeeeeee shit this thing is a monster!! of course its the big boy ls 7 7liter, but this thing has an awesome set of worked over Frankenstein heads, big cam, full intake exhaust full bolt on+heads car, well over 550 whp NA mated to an RPM stage 6 tr6060 and man it is nice! These z06s tend to be well taken care of collector type cars, and this one is a mix of that plus a nice set of mods to really bring out the beast.

I have had a lot of fast cars. Fast NA cars, big motor cars, fast turbo imports, fast trucks, fast turbo v8 etc. and this car has to be not only the fastest or at least even with my turbo Trans Am but definitely the most violent. It is just fuckin scary.


Current garage (truck and focus RS parked outside)

https://imgur.com/aGj5q82.png

[BigRedChief]

Been a while.. a couple months maybe, but I did some things. Starting with a rescued a corvette from a barn where it had sat for 4+ years and did a ton of work to make it right.

Starting out I was able to pull it onto the trailer but it ran like complete dogshit, multiple cylinders down, on flat tires, a 20 and 22 inch combo LOL

https://imgur.com/ley5Ghl.png

Ill try and say all the shit I did to get it running right, without a ton of explanation;
Fixed 6 injector harness wires, fixed coolant temp sensor broken off in block, fixed broken MAF plug, new injectors, new rockers, new lifters, new lifter trays, tune. Also did wheels and tires to replace the junk that was on there, and then eventually ANOTHER set of wheels and tires (i have a problem STFU )

That POS covered in an inch of dust that didn't run turned into this.

https://imgur.com/8YBRwkB.png

and then that other set of wheels and tires

https://imgur.com/vXMs7cs.png

So this got me into a lot of vette research, internet browsing, slobbering, and wishing...

so much that last night i brought this home.

https://imgur.com/YE99tcF.png

And holeeeeee shit this thing is a monster!! of course its the big boy ls 7 7liter, but this thing has an awesome set of worked over Frankenstein heads, big cam, full intake exhaust full bolt on+heads car, well over 550 whp NA mated to an RPM stage 6 tr6060 and man it is nice! These z06s tend to be well taken care of collector type cars, and this one is a mix of that plus a nice set of mods to really bring out the beast.

I have had a lot of fast cars. Fast NA cars, big motor cars, fast turbo imports, fast trucks, fast turbo v8 etc. and this car has to be not only the fastest or at least even with my turbo Trans Am but definitely the most violent. It is just ****in scary.


Current garage (truck and focus RS parked outside)

https://imgur.com/aGj5q82.pnggoing to be a really nice ride when you get her finished.
:thumb:

[hometeam]

going to be a really nice ride when you get her finished.
:thumb:

vette #1 is for sale. Not going to keep both, that z06 is too fuckin badass~

https://i.imgflip.com/5vboqg.jpg

[Buehler445]

So you went from 0 Corvettes to 2?

That’s …aggressive. You made #1 an entirely different car. Nice work.

[hometeam]

So you went from 0 Corvettes to 2?

That’s …aggressive. You made #1 an entirely different car. Nice work.

Lol yea I guess so. Ill end up with just the one.

For me I'm like OK, I bought this narrow body car for cheap cause it was fucked up, I dumped about 3500 bucks in it to get it to where it is. To make into what I truly want, stroker motor, built trans, fix torque tube, make widebody, wrap, ANOTHER set of wheels for widebody, make other shit nice etc. I figure I would be in the car for double, so around 30k total.

Or, I figure I can cough up a couple more bucks and get a superior car in the z06, done, ready to rock with no BS part backorders, surprises, or shenanigans. And the z06 is a car that is going to hold its value better I just kind of.. skipped to the end.

[Buehler445]

Lol yea I guess so. Ill end up with just the one.

For me I'm like OK, I bought this narrow body car for cheap cause it was fucked up, I dumped about 3500 bucks in it to get it to where it is. To make into what I truly want, stroker motor, built trans, fix torque tube, make widebody, wrap, ANOTHER set of wheels for widebody, make other shit nice etc. I figure I would be in the car for double, so around 30k total.

Or, I figure I can cough up a couple more bucks and get a superior car in the z06, done, ready to rock with no BS part backorders, surprises, or shenanigans. And the z06 is a car that is going to hold its value better I just kind of.. skipped to the end.

Well you’re going to net a mountain of cash from #1 so I totally get it. Well done.

I’m just going to sit in the corner and be super jealous.

[stevieray]

Picking up a two inch cowl hood for my Elco tmrw.

Replacing my dash with another stock dash with a tach, instead of a clock.

[Marcellus]

https://i.imgur.com/P570tBr.jpg

Just saw today my car got voted to be the cover pic for Chevy Nova Nation FB Page.

Thats pretty cool considering there are 47K+ members.

[ModSocks]

https://i.imgur.com/P570tBr.jpg

Just saw today my car got voted to be the cover pic for Chevy Nova Nation FB Page.

Thats pretty cool considering there are 47K+ members.

I feel like i like your car more and more every time you post it, no bullshit.

[Buehler445]

Awesome man.

[Skyy God]

Have an Infiniti Q50 now, think I’m upgrading to a 400 HP Red Sport.

[lewdog]

https://i.imgur.com/P570tBr.jpg

Just saw today my car got voted to be the cover pic for Chevy Nova Nation FB Page.

Thats pretty cool considering there are 47K+ members.

I fucking love your car man. It's so awesome.

I can't recall if you've restored the inside too?

[Dunerdr]

https://i.imgur.com/P570tBr.jpg

Just saw today my car got voted to be the cover pic for Chevy Nova Nation FB Page.

Thats pretty cool considering there are 47K+ members.

Beautiful car! The member on the left with the silver chevy II doing a wheelie is one of my best friends, i'm a member of that group as well. I have a blue 67, no where near as clean as yours, props.

[Marcellus]

Beautiful car! The member on the left with the silver chevy II doing a wheelie is one of my best friends, i'm a member of that group as well. I have a blue 67, no where near as clean as yours, props.

I know Chris pretty well, have been to his old house a few times, in fact I believe I have seen your car before. Are you in Jay?

[Dunerdr]

I know Chris pretty well, have been to his old house a few times, in fact I believe I have seen your car before. Are you in Jay?

Pryor actually, i had it at his old house a few times.

Edit: i think we were both there for Jay cruise night two ish years ago?

[Marcellus]

Pryor actually, i had it at his old house a few times.

Edit: i think we were both there for Jay cruise night two ish years ago?

Yup, small world.

Yea I'm the dumbass who broke his car leaving Chris's house. LMAO

Tore the panhard bar off the frame rail and did some other minor damage that got worse. Ended up putting new frame rails in it and widening the tubs another 3" or so.

Its actually getting some paint fixed and all new clear coat right now.

Here is a pic of our cars I took that day. Wish I could have made the cruise, turned out to be a shitty expensive day.

https://i.imgur.com/eXmdc1L.jpg

[Marcellus]

I ****ing love your car man. It's so awesome.

I can't recall if you've restored the inside too?

Yes its done but I'm still planning on replacing the seats, they are alright but cheap and you slide around too easy.

https://i.imgur.com/NDIvYzt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t2Go7zn.jpg

[lewdog]

Yes its done but I'm still planning on replacing the seats, they are alright but cheap and you slide around too easy.

https://i.imgur.com/NDIvYzt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t2Go7zn.jpg

That’s so cool man. Very nice.

[Buehler445]

Yes its done but I'm still planning on replacing the seats, they are alright but cheap and you slide around too easy.

https://i.imgur.com/NDIvYzt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t2Go7zn.jpg

Dude. That looks fucking awesome.

[Dunerdr]

My dad and i picked up our next project today. He turned me onto these things, and ive been trying to buy one on the north side of my little town for about 15 years now. I was doing some side work (im an electrician) and saw the old FJ at what looked like a crack house. I never saw anyone there and it doesn't look like the kind of place you walk up to and knock on the door. But we got lucky and my dad was hauling clay gravel from his pit to a nearby house and saw an old hippy outside and got some info on it. The guys wife called yesterday and we picked it up today. I'm not sure how far we will go with restoring it, but its god solid floor pans, the engine appears original and its an original new mexico vehicle. It's been in Oklahoma for 13 years and hasn't run for the last 6. Unfortunately the window was also down for that 6.

**edit** My computer is being a pos right now. Ill have to put pictures up later.

[Dunerdr]

Maybe

[Dunerdr]

We don’t have a trailer winch so we used the ol reliable Honda and it’s winch lol

[GloryDayz]

We don’t have a trailer winch so we used the ol reliable Honda and it’s winch lol

:clap:

[Radar Chief]

We don’t have a trailer winch so we used the ol reliable Honda and it’s winch lol

Nice, and with a hard top. Sweet find. :thumb:

[burt]

Maybe

Keep posting your progress......

[Marcellus]

We don’t have a trailer winch so we used the ol reliable Honda and it’s winch lol

Those are cool, a good friend of mine has 2 of them.

FYI I think you can put an HEI distributor in those pretty easy.

[Dunerdr]

Those are cool, a good friend of mine has 2 of them.

FYI I think you can put an HEI distributor in those pretty easy.
Thats good to know. My dad txt me after i left and said it ran for a minute off a shot of ether, but he could smell the awful gas. Might get it running on good gas tonight if i have time.

It came with two hard doors too that are green. I want to try to see if the original paint can be saved at all. I thought the corner windows were cracked and taped together but after getting it home its just shitty tint squares put on from the early 90s and theyre in great shape, so that was a relief.

[Radar Chief]

Thats good to know. My dad txt me after i left and said it ran for a minute off a shot of ether, but he could smell the awful gas. Might get it running on good gas tonight if i have time.

Really?
So you're planning on sticking with the stock I-6?

[burt]

Really?
So you're planning on sticking with the stock I-6?

I sure would.

[Radar Chief]

I sure would.

Depends on what he plans for it.
If he's going to restore it and flip it then yea, keep it stock.
But those Toyota axles will handle an SBC drive line and 35" tires without a whimper so if he plans to take it off roading that's what I would do with it.

[FRCDFED]

How do I cut/paste a pic of my car in here?

[HC_Chief]

How do I cut/paste a pic of my car in here?

Easiest way to share is to upload it to Imgur or similar and share the link (if you use Imgur use the HTML link here; you will likely need to include a height and width tag to the HTML code; e.g. height=500 width=800). You can create private folders and share photos individually. Example (my SuperBee):

<a href="https://imgur.com/vsDw8Ws"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/vsDw8Ws.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" width=800 height=500 /></a>
<a href="https://imgur.com/RAALCKq"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/RAALCKq.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" width=800 height=500 /></a>

[Dunerdr]

Got the gas tank out of the land cruiser yesterday. The hard lines are plugged up bad. I plan on spending some time doing a deep clean tomorrow on it and a quadracer lt250r I’m fixing up. But got the old girl to fire off and run off a two gallon gas can. We had to jump the coil and have a few gremlins to chase down. And I just saw it was asked if we were leaving it with the I6. That’s the plan. It’s honestly just gonna be a put around town rig. We’ve got some 8ply dot approved tires we pulled off my dads razr because they were too stiff, that were going to throw on some original looking wheels.

Here’s a vid of it running.

https://youtube.com/shorts/vRPHJMUm9yg?feature=share

[TrebMaxx]

Best OBD2 scanner, late model vehicles?

[Dunerdr]

It’s been slow going, my dad had hip surgery three weeks ago to the day. But while he was in the hospital he ordered plenty of Toyota stuff. I mocked the wheels up today. The balancer is off so I’ve got to calibrate it and balance them tomorrow, then start on seats brackets and seats. We’ve decided to just get it running right for this summer the. Attack body work next winter when my dads hip is closer to 100%

[Dunerdr]

Also ordering a 4” lift kit to replace these cheesy looking shackles.

[GloryDayz]

It’s been slow going, my dad had hip surgery three weeks ago to the day. But while he was in the hospital he ordered plenty of Toyota stuff. I mocked the wheels up today. The balancer is off so I’ve got to calibrate it and balance them tomorrow, then start on seats brackets and seats. We’ve decided to just get it running right for this summer the. Attack body work next winter when my dads hip is closer to 100%

OUTSTANDING!!!

[hometeam]

freakin sweet lets go

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

I bought a 79 Trans Am. It will have a 403 that's just shy of 500 horse. I'm trying to sort out the exhaust. I want to run cats because exhaust odors give me bad headaches anymore. So what cats and mufflers could I run that would perform well and sound good? Preferable without bad drone. X-pipe or h-pipe? It'll be a toy for the wife and I to cruise in and take day trips.
Here's the car I bought https://www.flickr.com/photos/restoreamusclecar/albums/72177720295603885/

[GloryDayz]

I bought a 79 Trans Am. It will have a 403 that's just shy of 500 horse. I'm trying to sort out the exhaust. I want to run cats because exhaust odors give me bad headaches anymore. So what cats and mufflers could I run that would perform well and sound good? Preferable without bad drone. X-pipe or h-pipe? It'll be a toy for the wife and I to cruise in and take day trips.
Here's the car I bought https://www.flickr.com/photos/restoreamusclecar/albums/72177720295603885/

:clap:

[threebag]

I bought a 78 Trans Am, I like the nose a lot better than the later models.

Motor and drive train are complete and redone

Needs some interior work and a fresh paint job, it’s straight

Bought it for my boy and I to have a project to work on for his first car.

When we’re done with this one he wants a 47-53 GMC/Chevy truck

[displacedinMN]

I bought a 79 Trans Am. It will have a 403 that's just shy of 500 horse. I'm trying to sort out the exhaust. I want to run cats because exhaust odors give me bad headaches anymore. So what cats and mufflers could I run that would perform well and sound good? Preferable without bad drone. X-pipe or h-pipe? It'll be a toy for the wife and I to cruise in and take day trips.
Here's the car I bought https://www.flickr.com/photos/restoreamusclecar/albums/72177720295603885/

I AM SO JEALOUS... Can I come by just so I can sit in it?