Gretz: Second Chance for Vick? - Page 2

Deberg_1990 · 08-29-2007, 07:40 PM

Pretty good story for Gretz. He puts the Vick tragedy in perspective by comparing it to Leonard Little. A true crime how the NFL gave Little a pass. If that happened today i doubt Goodell would be so forgiving...

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/08...ance_for_vick/

Sometime in 2009, Michael Vick will have served his jail time and will be contemplating returning to pro football.

He should be given that opportunity.

I can’t imagine any scenario where the NFL would keep him out. The league doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on should it decide to slap a lifetime ban on Vick for pleading guilty to charges involving dog fighting.

Maybe they could do it legally; Commissioner Roger Goodell may have that power. But as long as Vick serves his time and does not get into further trouble, he should be allowed a second chance.

How can a league that has allowed St. Louis Rams defensive end Leonard Little to play for the last eight years ban anybody from returning to the playing field?

In October of 1998, Little drove his SUV through a stoplight in downtown St. Louis, smashed into another car and killed Susan Gutweiler. She was 47 years old. She was a wife and mother, leaving behind her husband Bill and son Mike.

Little was drunk, with test results twice the legal limit.

If you want to know how unfair the justice system can be, then consider the fact that Little spent just 90 days in a special work program after pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Ninety days for taking the life of another person. Not only that, but now the whole thing has been expunged from his record. According to the justice system in St. Louis, Little never did anything wrong.

And Vick is going to get 12 to 18 months for running a dog-fighting ring and taking part in the killing of some of those animals?

That’s a justice system out of whack.

Don’t take this as a defense of Vick. He deserves every single day he’s handed behind bars. Vick was part of a business that was illegal and he knew so. He put himself above the law. He thought he was untouchable because of his standing in the world of sports. These were not crimes of ignorance, but crimes of arrogance.

Vick has now learned that he’s not above the law. He will soon pay the price for his crimes. Once he does, he should have the chance to return to the NFL. If Little got a second chance, then so should Vick.

The league, under then Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, suspended Little for eight games. He’s played every year since, signing two new contracts and making multi-millions of dollars. Whether or not he learned anything from his tragedy remains unknown. Just a few years ago he was pulled over for speeding in St. Louis and he failed a field sobriety test. Only a screw-up by the police in how they handled the situation kept him from facing another DUI charge and real legal consequences.

Vick has a long two years to prove he’s learned something from this sad affair. But if he satisfies the courts by serving his time without further problems, that should be enough to satisfy the NFL. That doesn’t mean any team has to step up and sign him. Obviously, some clubs would be interested, but they would face plenty of public outcry and complaints.

Everyone deserves a second chance. If Leonard Little got one, then Michael Vick should have one as well.

**KcMizzou** · 08-29-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Should be!

It's not, though.

I'm not talking about the law... just simply what the words mean.

Fairplay · 08-29-2007, 08:04 PM

If Vick plays his cards right. Doing his time, saying the right things, being humble, community service etc. I can see him playing in 2010 maybe even earlier.

He needs a PR agent to make him up to be practically an angel and to do it where he gets air time for all to see. Do a Larry King show telling america what an idiot he was. Maybe a religious show here and there saying he was a stray sheep on that took up a sinful life and only the reality of life behind prison walls are what woke me up.
I should be his agent he would look like an angel pretty quick. Give me 10 percent please, heh.

Americas quick to forgive. The pressure would be put on Goodell eventually.

NaptownChief · 08-29-2007, 08:06 PM

What Little did was horrible however it was something that millions of us could have done in the past from drinking too much and being dumb enough to drive. That certainly doesn't make it even remotely right but it does make it understandable.

Where Little crossed over from making a really bad mistake to becoming complete and utter scum of he earth was when he got caught drinking and driving again. Absolutely nobody on this planet even remotely worth a damn would have ever done that again after living with the fact that they took a life under those circumstances.

CoMoChief · 08-29-2007, 08:47 PM

If Goodell was commisioner back when Little did all of his shit Little wouldn't be in the league now.

The victims son called in on EPSN radio and was just chewing Little out the other day. Not only that but the victim's husband (and the guy that called in - his father) is a football photographer for the Rams so every SUN he has to watch the man who killed his wife, play a GAME and make millions in the process and live the celebrity lifestyle.

Little is a ****in jerk, and should be in prison. Not only that but he got another DUI later and got out of it on a "technicality". Not to mention St. Louis Co. cops treat DUI's like parking tickets pretty much.

CoMoChief · 08-29-2007, 08:48 PM

If Goodell was commisioner back when Little did all of his shit Little wouldn't be in the league now.

The victims son called in on EPSN radio and was just chewing Little out the other day. Not only that but the victim's husband (and the guy that called in - his father) is a football photographer for the Rams so every SUN he has to watch the man who killed his wife, play a GAME and make millions in the process and live the celebrity lifestyle.

Little is a ****in jerk, and should be in prison. Not only that but he got another DUI later and got out of it on a "technicality". Not to mention St. Louis Co. cops treat DUI's like parking tickets pretty much.

stevieray · 08-29-2007, 09:30 PM

IMO, almost all of this falls at the feet of Paul Tagliabue.

Eleazar · 08-29-2007, 09:32 PM

This argument is dumb. Because someone else did something and got off easy, everyone has to get off easy?

Maintaining a bad precedent just for the sake of precedent is dumb. Just because this is the way you've always done it does not make it a good idea.

If someone screwed up in the past, you fix it and then leave it right. You don't do it wrong over and over for the sake of fairness.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 08-29-2007, 09:41 PM

I honestly think his prison sentence + suspension = de facto lifetime ban.

Apparently the judge made it perfectly clear to Vick on Monday, that plea agreement or not, he and HE ALONE made the decision on Vick's sentence. He also made it perfectly clear that Vick had waived his right to appeal the sentence.

Supposedly the air was sucked out of the room when this happened. Vick's mother and GF were both visably shaken.

Given the hard-ass reputation of the judge as a guy who sentences to the maximum, I would not be shocked to see him give Vick 24+ months.

This year + 2 years in prison + at least 1 year suspension = Vick's out of football for at minimum 4 years.

He's not coming back after 4 years.

JMO.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 08-29-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

This argument is dumb. Because someone else did something and got off easy, everyone has to get off easy?

Maintaining a bad precedent just for the sake of precedent is dumb. Just because this is the way you've always done it does not make it a good idea.

If someone screwed up in the past, you fix it and then leave it right. You don't do it wrong over and over for the sake of fairness.

08-29-2007, 07:40 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3474454	Gretz: Second Chance for Vick? Pretty good story for Gretz. He puts the Vick tragedy in perspective by comparing it to Leonard Little. A true crime how the NFL gave Little a pass. If that happened today i doubt Goodell would be so forgiving... http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/08...ance_for_vick/ Sometime in 2009, Michael Vick will have served his jail time and will be contemplating returning to pro football. He should be given that opportunity. I can’t imagine any scenario where the NFL would keep him out. The league doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on should it decide to slap a lifetime ban on Vick for pleading guilty to charges involving dog fighting. Maybe they could do it legally; Commissioner Roger Goodell may have that power. But as long as Vick serves his time and does not get into further trouble, he should be allowed a second chance. How can a league that has allowed St. Louis Rams defensive end Leonard Little to play for the last eight years ban anybody from returning to the playing field? In October of 1998, Little drove his SUV through a stoplight in downtown St. Louis, smashed into another car and killed Susan Gutweiler. She was 47 years old. She was a wife and mother, leaving behind her husband Bill and son Mike. Little was drunk, with test results twice the legal limit. If you want to know how unfair the justice system can be, then consider the fact that Little spent just 90 days in a special work program after pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Ninety days for taking the life of another person. Not only that, but now the whole thing has been expunged from his record. According to the justice system in St. Louis, Little never did anything wrong. And Vick is going to get 12 to 18 months for running a dog-fighting ring and taking part in the killing of some of those animals? That’s a justice system out of whack. Don’t take this as a defense of Vick. He deserves every single day he’s handed behind bars. Vick was part of a business that was illegal and he knew so. He put himself above the law. He thought he was untouchable because of his standing in the world of sports. These were not crimes of ignorance, but crimes of arrogance. Vick has now learned that he’s not above the law. He will soon pay the price for his crimes. Once he does, he should have the chance to return to the NFL. If Little got a second chance, then so should Vick. The league, under then Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, suspended Little for eight games. He’s played every year since, signing two new contracts and making multi-millions of dollars. Whether or not he learned anything from his tragedy remains unknown. Just a few years ago he was pulled over for speeding in St. Louis and he failed a field sobriety test. Only a screw-up by the police in how they handled the situation kept him from facing another DUI charge and real legal consequences. Vick has a long two years to prove he’s learned something from this sad affair. But if he satisfies the courts by serving his time without further problems, that should be enough to satisfy the NFL. That doesn’t mean any team has to step up and sign him. Obviously, some clubs would be interested, but they would face plenty of public outcry and complaints. Everyone deserves a second chance. If Leonard Little got one, then Michael Vick should have one as well.
Posts: 66,914

08-29-2007, 08:04 PM	#17
Fairplay A certain set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: texas Casino cash: $10026683 VARSITY	If Vick plays his cards right. Doing his time, saying the right things, being humble, community service etc. I can see him playing in 2010 maybe even earlier. He needs a PR agent to make him up to be practically an angel and to do it where he gets air time for all to see. Do a Larry King show telling america what an idiot he was. Maybe a religious show here and there saying he was a stray sheep on that took up a sinful life and only the reality of life behind prison walls are what woke me up. I should be his agent he would look like an angel pretty quick. Give me 10 percent please, heh. Americas quick to forgive. The pressure would be put on Goodell eventually.
Posts: 25,265

08-29-2007, 08:06 PM	#18
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	What Little did was horrible however it was something that millions of us could have done in the past from drinking too much and being dumb enough to drive. That certainly doesn't make it even remotely right but it does make it understandable. Where Little crossed over from making a really bad mistake to becoming complete and utter scum of he earth was when he got caught drinking and driving again. Absolutely nobody on this planet even remotely worth a damn would have ever done that again after living with the fact that they took a life under those circumstances. __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

08-29-2007, 08:47 PM	#19
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7972254	If Goodell was commisioner back when Little did all of his shit Little wouldn't be in the league now. The victims son called in on EPSN radio and was just chewing Little out the other day. Not only that but the victim's husband (and the guy that called in - his father) is a football photographer for the Rams so every SUN he has to watch the man who killed his wife, play a GAME and make millions in the process and live the celebrity lifestyle. Little is a ****in jerk, and should be in prison. Not only that but he got another DUI later and got out of it on a "technicality". Not to mention St. Louis Co. cops treat DUI's like parking tickets pretty much. __________________
Posts: 39,174

08-29-2007, 08:48 PM	#20
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7972254	If Goodell was commisioner back when Little did all of his shit Little wouldn't be in the league now. The victims son called in on EPSN radio and was just chewing Little out the other day. Not only that but the victim's husband (and the guy that called in - his father) is a football photographer for the Rams so every SUN he has to watch the man who killed his wife, play a GAME and make millions in the process and live the celebrity lifestyle. Little is a ****in jerk, and should be in prison. Not only that but he got another DUI later and got out of it on a "technicality". Not to mention St. Louis Co. cops treat DUI's like parking tickets pretty much. __________________
Posts: 39,174

08-29-2007, 09:30 PM	#21
stevieray best in the biz Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $2045273	IMO, almost all of this falls at the feet of Paul Tagliabue.
Posts: 71,613

08-29-2007, 09:32 PM	#22
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	This argument is dumb. Because someone else did something and got off easy, everyone has to get off easy? Maintaining a bad precedent just for the sake of precedent is dumb. Just because this is the way you've always done it does not make it a good idea. If someone screwed up in the past, you fix it and then leave it right. You don't do it wrong over and over for the sake of fairness.
Posts: 80,659

08-29-2007, 09:41 PM	#23
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4671115	I honestly think his prison sentence + suspension = de facto lifetime ban. Apparently the judge made it perfectly clear to Vick on Monday, that plea agreement or not, he and HE ALONE made the decision on Vick's sentence. He also made it perfectly clear that Vick had waived his right to appeal the sentence. Supposedly the air was sucked out of the room when this happened. Vick's mother and GF were both visably shaken. Given the hard-ass reputation of the judge as a guy who sentences to the maximum, I would not be shocked to see him give Vick 24+ months. This year + 2 years in prison + at least 1 year suspension = Vick's out of football for at minimum 4 years. He's not coming back after 4 years. JMO.
Posts: 60,273