Chiefs Haley reminds me of.... - Page 4

kcbubb · 01-24-2009, 02:34 PM

Brian Billick.

Billick was the offensive coordinator of the Vikings from 92-98 and had one the highest scoring offenses in league history in 1998. The Vikes had an older QB, Randall Cunningham, a super talented, young receiver, Randy Moss, and another very good receiver, Chris Carter.

Billick went on to win a superbowl, but his offenses were never very good.

The point of the comparison is to show that coaches are often given credit for success that may not be attributable to them. Haley maybe a great coach, but the success of the cardinals offense is not enough to determine that.

The Chiefs should hire Chan Gailey as head coach and wait for a more proven coach if Gailey is not successful instead of making a huge commitment to a unproven coach like Hailey.

ChiefsCountry · 01-25-2009, 02:47 AM

First thing is Haley isnt some flash in the pan. He was on alot of coaching propsect lists before the Cardinals run in the playoffs. Reason his name wasnt brought up as much bc he wasnt the name at the time - it was Schwartz, Spags, McDaniels and Garrett.

Second, his track record with receivers is pretty amazing. Keyshawn, Wayne Cherbet, Marty Booker, TO, turned Patrick Crayton into a decent receiver. Of course the Cardinals WR's. He is tough no nonsense guy with the most primadonna players in the NFL.

Generally a Super Bowl winning coach on his second job does not produce championships. History shows a guy who failed the first time generally is the better choice - Gailey is not it so please dont bring it up, or an assitant waiting for his chance. The dyntasties in the NFL - first 2 were assitants, Lombardi and Noll. Walsh and Johnson came from the college ranks. And then you have Belichek who was a retread. Intresting that Noll and Walsh were only coordinators for two and one years.

RustShack · 01-25-2009, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theorangelion

Let's get one thing straight. Haley has never been a HC. So all speculation aside of his potential his record is zero. Now, that we have established that let's review. Shanahan, Parcells, Cowher hmmmmm..............all have Super Bowl Ring, Gee who do I want unkown or proven?????

Were they always proven or were they first time HC's at one point? Lets look back at them before they took over as HC.

Pasqualoni-
1982-1986 Western Connecticut assistant
1987-1990 Syracuse assistant
1991-2004 Syracuse HC
2005 Cowboys TE coach
2006-2007 Cowboys LB coach
2008-present Dolphins DC

Haley-
1995-2000 Jets WR coach
2001-2004 Bears WR coach
2005-2006 Cowboys WR coach
2007-present Cardinals OC

Cowher-
1985-1986 Browns ST coach
1987-1988 Browns DB coach
1989-1991 Chiefs DC

Shanahan-
1975 Oklahoma offensive assistant
1976-1977 NAU RB coach
1978 EIU OC
1979 Minnesota OC
1980-1983 Florida OC
1984-1985 Broncos QB coach
1986-1987 Broncos OC

Parcells-
1964 Hastings LB coach
1965 Wichita LB coach
1966-1967 Army LB coach
1968-1969 Army DC
1970-1972 Florida State LB coach
1973-1974 Vanderbilt LB coach
1975-1977 Texas Tech LB coach
1978 Airforce HC
1979 Giants DC
1980 Patriots LB coach
1981-1982 Giants DC/LB coach

Sully · 01-25-2009, 07:03 AM

Haley, while interviewing for the Dallas hc job (probably an opportunity for his dream job) told jones he would not coach the team if TO was on it. That integrity alone makese like the guy.

DTLB58 · 01-25-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Chan Gailey proved without a doubt in the NFL and in college he is not a head coach...

And for the record I don't care how long he's called plays, you can be a great coordinator and a shitty head coach. Knowing how to call plays or having experience at it is not the end all be all of a head coach.

If you want to knock Haley for saying those aren't his guys, frankly most of them are Dennis Green's players. Todd Haley was a WR coach before he was an OC, there's a reason no one in this league has WR's like the Cardinals do...he made Fitzgerald better, he's turned Steve Breaston into a player, he deserves credit for this.

I agree with this.

theorangelion · 01-25-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Were they always proven or were they first time HC's at one point? Lets look back at them before they took over as HC.

Pasqualoni-
1982-1986 Western Connecticut assistant
1987-1990 Syracuse assistant
1991-2004 Syracuse HC
2005 Cowboys TE coach
2006-2007 Cowboys LB coach
2008-present Dolphins DC

Haley-
1995-2000 Jets WR coach
2001-2004 Bears WR coach
2005-2006 Cowboys WR coach
2007-present Cardinals OC

Cowher-
1985-1986 Browns ST coach
1987-1988 Browns DB coach
1989-1991 Chiefs DC

Shanahan-
1975 Oklahoma offensive assistant
1976-1977 NAU RB coach
1978 EIU OC
1979 Minnesota OC
1980-1983 Florida OC
1984-1985 Broncos QB coach
1986-1987 Broncos OC

Parcells-
1964 Hastings LB coach
1965 Wichita LB coach
1966-1967 Army LB coach
1968-1969 Army DC
1970-1972 Florida State LB coach
1973-1974 Vanderbilt LB coach
1975-1977 Texas Tech LB coach
1978 Airforce HC
1979 Giants DC
1980 Patriots LB coach
1981-1982 Giants DC/LB coach

Yes, everyone has to start somewhere. IMO the Chiefs need a HC who has been a HC before for the experience of knowing how to run a program. Will they be successful? If I knew that I would be in Vegas. There are two many variables involved.

DTLB58 · 01-25-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Whether or not Haley will be a good coach has nothing to do with it.

Hiring a coach that you think of as an interim coach to start a new regime is about the stupiest ****ing idea ever.

Yah, I was going to mention this to. That is not the way you want to start over building a franchise. Clark could have done that on his own. Then why not just let Herm finish out his contract?

theorangelion · 01-25-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Chan Gailey proved without a doubt in the NFL and in college he is not a head coach...

And for the record I don't care how long he's called plays, you can be a great coordinator and a shitty head coach. Knowing how to call plays or having experience at it is not the end all be all of a head coach.

If you want to knock Haley for saying those aren't his guys, frankly most of them are Dennis Green's players. Todd Haley was a WR coach before he was an OC, there's a reason no one in this league has WR's like the Cardinals do...he made Fitzgerald better, he's turned Steve Breaston into a player, he deserves credit for this.

Another Good Argument for a Seasoned Head Coach.

PRIEST · 01-25-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Chan Gailey has PROVEN he's a shit NFL head coach.

Keep spinning.

THIS

No Gailey for Head Coach ,for that matter his azz should have been on the Herman Edwards short bus outta town

whoman69 · 01-25-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theorangelion

Let's get one thing straight. Haley has never been a HC. So all speculation aside of his potential his record is zero. Now, that we have established that let's review. Shanahan, Parcells, Cowher hmmmmm..............all have Super Bowl Ring, Gee who do I want unkown or proven?????

Parcelles was unproven in 1983. Shanahan was not proven when the Broncos hired him, in fact was a failure in Oakland. Cower was an unknown before coming to Pittsburg. Those were all pretty good hires. All of those guys are out of the question. Parcelles is staying in Miami. Cower is not coming back this season, and I don't think Shanahan is either. The biggest speculation would be to imagine one of those guys as the next Chiefs HC. Having a coach that won a Super Bowl is not always a road to success. Didn't work for Stram, Ditka or Seifert. Parcelles quit in New York and Dallas before the job was done.

01-24-2009, 02:34 PM
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $4936719	Haley reminds me of.... Brian Billick. Billick was the offensive coordinator of the Vikings from 92-98 and had one the highest scoring offenses in league history in 1998. The Vikes had an older QB, Randall Cunningham, a super talented, young receiver, Randy Moss, and another very good receiver, Chris Carter. Billick went on to win a superbowl, but his offenses were never very good. The point of the comparison is to show that coaches are often given credit for success that may not be attributable to them. Haley maybe a great coach, but the success of the cardinals offense is not enough to determine that. The Chiefs should hire Chan Gailey as head coach and wait for a more proven coach if Gailey is not successful instead of making a huge commitment to a unproven coach like Hailey.
Posts: 2,561

01-25-2009, 02:47 AM	#46
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1681248	First thing is Haley isnt some flash in the pan. He was on alot of coaching propsect lists before the Cardinals run in the playoffs. Reason his name wasnt brought up as much bc he wasnt the name at the time - it was Schwartz, Spags, McDaniels and Garrett. Second, his track record with receivers is pretty amazing. Keyshawn, Wayne Cherbet, Marty Booker, TO, turned Patrick Crayton into a decent receiver. Of course the Cardinals WR's. He is tough no nonsense guy with the most primadonna players in the NFL. Generally a Super Bowl winning coach on his second job does not produce championships. History shows a guy who failed the first time generally is the better choice - Gailey is not it so please dont bring it up, or an assitant waiting for his chance. The dyntasties in the NFL - first 2 were assitants, Lombardi and Noll. Walsh and Johnson came from the college ranks. And then you have Belichek who was a retread. Intresting that Noll and Walsh were only coordinators for two and one years.
Posts: 52,215

01-25-2009, 07:03 AM	#48
Sully It Goes On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $10026331	Haley, while interviewing for the Dallas hc job (probably an opportunity for his dream job) told jones he would not coach the team if TO was on it. That integrity alone makese like the guy. __________________ "And I don't wish that girl any bad luck," he said, "but I hope she gets hit with a car." - Tommy Lasorda
Posts: 18,295