Comparison of 1998-2002 drafts

**ChiefGator** · 04:24 PM

This is a spin-off of the following thread which BigRedChief started..

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...5&page=1&pp=15

I took the five drafts he highlighted and compared it to everyone within our division, and five other teams. Clearly, the players we drafted from those drafts was much less likely to make it to 2007 than players drafted from the comparison teams. There is a STARK contrast, in my mind. We'll leave it up to Gaz (should we ever hear from him again) to give us the significance values for this. (Or maybe I'll try later).

A note on my methodology. I used NFL's list of historic drafts and looked up each player. If a player appeared as current, but had no stats, I looked at that players details. If 2007 was not listed in his years, I counted him as out of the league. I think this occurs when the player went to training camp with a team, and didn't make it...

Another note that these percentages vary slightly from the couple of values that appear in the original thread. I forgot to include players still on the drafting team within the 'on any roster' category.

The numbers!

KC - 3% still on our roster, 23% on any NFL roster

Denver - 5% still on Denver roster, 40% on any NFL roster
Raiders - 11% still on Raider roster, 35% on any NFL roster
Chargers - 11% still on Charger roster, 30% on any NFL roster

Ravens - 9% on Raven roster, 44% on any NFL roster
Colts - 17% on Colt roster, 44% on any NFL roster
Patriots - 11% on Patriot roster, 24% on any NFL roster
Lions - 15% on Lion roster, 44% on any NFL roster
Saints - 9% on Saints roster, 44% on any NFL roster

Overall, excluding KC, 11% still on team that drafted, 38% on any NFL roster. Again, KC has 3% of their drafted players from this period still on their roster and only 23% of them remain in the league.

(Raw Data follows)

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 03:55 PM

------------------------------
Team - Picks / Still On Roster / Any NFL Roster
KC - 35 / 1 / 8

Denver - 43 / 2 / 17
Raiders - 37 / 4 / 13
Chargers - 37 / 4 / 11

Ravens - 34 / 3 / 15
Colts - 36 / 6 / 16
Patriots - 45 / 5 / 11
Lions - 33 / 5 / 16
Saints - 34 / 3 / 15

-------------------------------
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS

Total Players Drafted: 35

Players remaining on our roster from these drafts: 1
. Greg Wesley SS

Players on other teams rosters: 7

. Ryan Sims (played in no games this year)
. Scott Fujita (starts for New Orleans, third team)
. Monty Beisel (backup in Arizona)
. Terdell Sands (starts in Oakland - 3 tackles)
. Dante Hall (St. Louis)
. John Tait (starts in Chicago)
. Gary Stills ( backup in Baltimore )

-------------------------------
DENVER BRONCOS

Total Drafted Players: 43

Players still on the Ravens roster: 2
. Ian Gold LB
. Ben Hamilton C/G

Players on other teams rosters: 15
. Ashley Lelie WR (49ers)
. Clinton Portis RB (redskins)
. Jeb Putzier TE (texans)
. Reggie Hayward DE (jags)
. Nick Harris P (lions)
. Deltha O'Neal CB (bengals)
. Kenoy Kennedy SAF (lions)
. Cooper Carlisle G (raiders)
. Mike Anderson RB (ravens)
. Montae Reagor DE (eagles)
. Lennie Friedman C (browns)
. David Bowens LB (jets)
. Desmond Clark TE (bears)
. Billy Miller WR/TE (saints)
. Brian Griese QB (bears)

-------------------------------
OAKLAND RAIDERS

Total Players Drafted: 37

Total Still on Raiders Roster: 4
. Ronald Curry QB/WR
. Sebastian Janikowski K
. Jerry Porter WR
. Shane Lechler P

Total On Other Teams Roster: 9
. Charles Woodson CB (packers)
. Rod Coleman DT (falcons)
. Eric Barton LB (jets)
. Chris Cooper DT (arizona)
. Marques Tuiasosopo QB (jets)
. Kenyon Coleman DE (jets)
. Phillip Buchanon CB (bucs)
. Napoleon Harris MLB (chiefs)
. Langston Walker T (bills)

-------------------------------
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS

Total Players Drafted: 37

Total Still on Chargers Roster: 4
. Quentin Jammer DB
. LaDainian Tomlinson RB
. Carlos Polk LB
. Jamal Williams DT

Total On Other Teams Roster: 7
. Reche Caldwell WR (redskins)
. Ben Leber OLB (vikes)
. Justin Peelle TE (dolphins)
. Drew Brees QB (saints)
. Brandon Gorin T (rams)
. Damion McIntosh T (chiefs)
. Steve Heiden TE (browns)

-------------------------------
BALTIMORE RAVENS

Total Drafted Players: 34

Players still on the Ravens roster: 3
. Ed Reed SS
. Todd Heap TE
. Chris McAlister CB

Players on other teams rosters: 12
. Chester Taylor RB ( vikes )
. Anthony Weaver DE (texans)
. Dave Zastudil P (browns)
. Gary Baxter DB (browns)
. Casey Rabach C (redskins)
. Jamal Lewis RB (browns)
. Travis Taylor WR (oakland)
. Chris Redman QB (altanta)
. Adalius Thomas DE/LB (patriots)
. Brandon Stokley WR (broncos)
. Edwin Mulitalo G (lions)
. Duane Starks CB (raiders)

-------------------------------
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Total Players Drafted: 36

Total Still on Colts Roster: 6
. Dwight Freeney DE
. Reggie Wayne WR
. Ryan Diem G/T
. Rob Morris LB
. Hunter Smith P
. Peyton Manning QB

Total On Other Teams Roster: 10
. Larry Tripplett DT (bills)
. David Thornton LB (titans)
. Josh Mallard DE (falcons)
. Idrees Bashir FS (lions)
. Rick DeMulling G (redskins)
. Marcus Washington LB (redskins)
. David Macklin DB (redskins)
. Edgerrin James RB (cardinals)
. Mike Peterson OLB (jags)
. Steve McKinney G/C (texans)

-------------------------------
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

Total Players Drafted: 45

Total Still on Patriots Roster: 5
. Jarvis Green DE
. Richard Seymour DT
. Matt Light T
. Tom Brady QB
. Kevin Faulk RB

Total On Other Teams Roster: 6
. Daniel Graham TE Colorado (broncos)
. Deion Branch WR Louisville (seattle)
. Patrick Pass RB Georgia (texans)
. Damien Woody C Boston College (lions)
. Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State (pats)
. Sean Morey WR Brown (cards)

-------------------------------
DETROIT LIONS

Total Players Drafted: 33

Total Still on Detroit's Roster: 5
. Kalimba Edwards DE
. Jeff Backus T
. Dominic Raiola C
. Shaun Rogers NT
. Jared DeVries DE

Total On Other Teams Roster: 11
. Joey Harrington QB (falcons)
. Andre' Goodman DB (dolphins)
. John Owens TE (saints)
. Matt Murphy TE (bills)
. Jason Glenn LB (vikes)
. Reuben Droughns RB (giants)
. Chris Claiborne OLB (jags)
. Clint Kriewaldt LB (steelers)
. Charlie Batch QB (steelers)
. Chris Liwienski T (dolphins)
. Alfonso Boone DE (chiefs)

-------------------------------
NEW ORLEANS SAINTS

Total Players Drafted: 34

Total Still on Saints' Roster: 3
. Charles Grant DE (saints)
. Deuce McAllister RB (saints)
. Kevin Houser FB (saints)

Total On Other Teams Roster: 12
. Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee (pats)
. Mel Mitchell DB Western Kentucky (pats)
. J.T. O'Sullivan QB California-Davis (lions)
. John Gilmore TE Penn State (bears)
. Kenny Smith DT Alabama (pats)
. Moran Norris RB/FB Kansas (49ers)
. Darren Howard DE Kansas State (eagles)
. Terrelle Smith FB Arizona State (cards)
. Tutan Reyes T Mississippi (jags)
. Marc Bulger QB West Virginia (rams)
. Kyle Turley G San Diego State (chiefs)
. Fred Weary DB Florida (texans)

jidar · 10-09-2007, 04:12 PM

wow. Well that certainly doesn't look good.

Dr. Van Halen · 10-09-2007, 05:00 PM

This is excellent research.

It might be significant to add draft position to this list, though.

For example, the Ravens had top 10 picks three of these five years. The Colts had the one and the four during two of these years.

I would expect a team with a top 5 pick to draft a keeper.

BigVE · 10-09-2007, 05:02 PM

Wow. That is sad. Thanks for the info though.

Dr. Van Halen · 10-09-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Van Halen

This is excellent research.

It might be significant to add draft position to this list, though.

For example, the Ravens had top 10 picks three of these five years. The Colts had the one and the four during two of these years.

I would expect a team with a top 5 pick to draft a keeper.

I should add that if you have the #6 pick you should draft a reerun as a favor to a friend.

Curse you, Dick!!!

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Van Halen

I should add that if you have the #6 pick you should draft a reerun as a favor to a friend.

Curse you, Dick!!!

Ha ha ha! Awesome...

**DaFace** · 10-09-2007, 06:11 PM

Interesting that the only 24 percent of Patriots' draftees are still in the NFL.

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

Interesting that the only 24 percent of Patriots' draftees are still in the NFL.

Yes, that was interesting to me as well.

Also, Indy really makes their 1st rounders count, but alot of other teams don't.

And if we had a draft like the top of Detroit's in 2001, that would help out team immensely.

1 18 Jeff Backus T Michigan (still with lions)
2 50 Dominic Raiola C Nebraska (still with lions)
2 61 Shaun Rogers NT Texas (still with lions)

**ChiefGator** · 06-17-2008, 03:35 PM

I linked to this thread from another, but I just noticed.. if we cut/trade Wesley, we will have NO players from drafts 1998-2002 still on the team.

FAX · 06-17-2008, 03:50 PM

Awesome job, Mr. ChiefGator.

So, it does appear that either; A) We suck at drafting, or B) We suck at player development, or C) Both.

FAX

stlchiefs · 06-17-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Awesome job, Mr. ChiefGator.

So, it does appear that either; A) We suck at drafting, or B) We suck at player development, or C) Both.

FAX

I would like to conclude this presentation by stating that in summary, We Suck.

milkman · 06-18-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlchiefs

I would like to conclude this presentation by stating that in summary, We Suck.

Hell, I coulda told ya that without the research.

StcChief · 06-18-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Awesome job, Mr. ChiefGator.

So, it does appear that either; A) We suck at drafting, or B) We suck at player development, or C) Both.

FAX

at this point C).... Herm gets this year to prove out his draftees

Deberg_1990 · 06-18-2008, 11:12 AM

Wow, im SHOCKED to learn the Chiefs drafted poorly from 98-2002. Thanks.

10-09-2007, 03:55 PM
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $7582956	Comparison of 1998-2002 drafts This is a spin-off of the following thread which BigRedChief started.. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...5&page=1&pp=15 I took the five drafts he highlighted and compared it to everyone within our division, and five other teams. Clearly, the players we drafted from those drafts was much less likely to make it to 2007 than players drafted from the comparison teams. There is a STARK contrast, in my mind. We'll leave it up to Gaz (should we ever hear from him again) to give us the significance values for this. (Or maybe I'll try later). A note on my methodology. I used NFL's list of historic drafts and looked up each player. If a player appeared as current, but had no stats, I looked at that players details. If 2007 was not listed in his years, I counted him as out of the league. I think this occurs when the player went to training camp with a team, and didn't make it... Another note that these percentages vary slightly from the couple of values that appear in the original thread. I forgot to include players still on the drafting team within the 'on any roster' category. The numbers! KC - 3% still on our roster, 23% on any NFL roster Denver - 5% still on Denver roster, 40% on any NFL roster Raiders - 11% still on Raider roster, 35% on any NFL roster Chargers - 11% still on Charger roster, 30% on any NFL roster Ravens - 9% on Raven roster, 44% on any NFL roster Colts - 17% on Colt roster, 44% on any NFL roster Patriots - 11% on Patriot roster, 24% on any NFL roster Lions - 15% on Lion roster, 44% on any NFL roster Saints - 9% on Saints roster, 44% on any NFL roster Overall, excluding KC, 11% still on team that drafted, 38% on any NFL roster. Again, KC has 3% of their drafted players from this period still on their roster and only 23% of them remain in the league. (Raw Data follows) Last edited by ChiefGator; 10-09-2007 at 04:24 PM..
Posts: 4,599

10-09-2007, 03:55 PM	#2
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $7582956	------------------------------ Team - Picks / Still On Roster / Any NFL Roster KC - 35 / 1 / 8 Denver - 43 / 2 / 17 Raiders - 37 / 4 / 13 Chargers - 37 / 4 / 11 Ravens - 34 / 3 / 15 Colts - 36 / 6 / 16 Patriots - 45 / 5 / 11 Lions - 33 / 5 / 16 Saints - 34 / 3 / 15 ------------------------------- KANSAS CITY CHIEFS Total Players Drafted: 35 Players remaining on our roster from these drafts: 1 . Greg Wesley SS Players on other teams rosters: 7 . Ryan Sims (played in no games this year) . Scott Fujita (starts for New Orleans, third team) . Monty Beisel (backup in Arizona) . Terdell Sands (starts in Oakland - 3 tackles) . Dante Hall (St. Louis) . John Tait (starts in Chicago) . Gary Stills ( backup in Baltimore ) ------------------------------- DENVER BRONCOS Total Drafted Players: 43 Players still on the Ravens roster: 2 . Ian Gold LB . Ben Hamilton C/G Players on other teams rosters: 15 . Ashley Lelie WR (49ers) . Clinton Portis RB (redskins) . Jeb Putzier TE (texans) . Reggie Hayward DE (jags) . Nick Harris P (lions) . Deltha O'Neal CB (bengals) . Kenoy Kennedy SAF (lions) . Cooper Carlisle G (raiders) . Mike Anderson RB (ravens) . Montae Reagor DE (eagles) . Lennie Friedman C (browns) . David Bowens LB (jets) . Desmond Clark TE (bears) . Billy Miller WR/TE (saints) . Brian Griese QB (bears) ------------------------------- OAKLAND RAIDERS Total Players Drafted: 37 Total Still on Raiders Roster: 4 . Ronald Curry QB/WR . Sebastian Janikowski K . Jerry Porter WR . Shane Lechler P Total On Other Teams Roster: 9 . Charles Woodson CB (packers) . Rod Coleman DT (falcons) . Eric Barton LB (jets) . Chris Cooper DT (arizona) . Marques Tuiasosopo QB (jets) . Kenyon Coleman DE (jets) . Phillip Buchanon CB (bucs) . Napoleon Harris MLB (chiefs) . Langston Walker T (bills) ------------------------------- SAN DIEGO CHARGERS Total Players Drafted: 37 Total Still on Chargers Roster: 4 . Quentin Jammer DB . LaDainian Tomlinson RB . Carlos Polk LB . Jamal Williams DT Total On Other Teams Roster: 7 . Reche Caldwell WR (redskins) . Ben Leber OLB (vikes) . Justin Peelle TE (dolphins) . Drew Brees QB (saints) . Brandon Gorin T (rams) . Damion McIntosh T (chiefs) . Steve Heiden TE (browns) ------------------------------- BALTIMORE RAVENS Total Drafted Players: 34 Players still on the Ravens roster: 3 . Ed Reed SS . Todd Heap TE . Chris McAlister CB Players on other teams rosters: 12 . Chester Taylor RB ( vikes ) . Anthony Weaver DE (texans) . Dave Zastudil P (browns) . Gary Baxter DB (browns) . Casey Rabach C (redskins) . Jamal Lewis RB (browns) . Travis Taylor WR (oakland) . Chris Redman QB (altanta) . Adalius Thomas DE/LB (patriots) . Brandon Stokley WR (broncos) . Edwin Mulitalo G (lions) . Duane Starks CB (raiders) ------------------------------- INDIANAPOLIS COLTS Total Players Drafted: 36 Total Still on Colts Roster: 6 . Dwight Freeney DE . Reggie Wayne WR . Ryan Diem G/T . Rob Morris LB . Hunter Smith P . Peyton Manning QB Total On Other Teams Roster: 10 . Larry Tripplett DT (bills) . David Thornton LB (titans) . Josh Mallard DE (falcons) . Idrees Bashir FS (lions) . Rick DeMulling G (redskins) . Marcus Washington LB (redskins) . David Macklin DB (redskins) . Edgerrin James RB (cardinals) . Mike Peterson OLB (jags) . Steve McKinney G/C (texans) ------------------------------- NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS Total Players Drafted: 45 Total Still on Patriots Roster: 5 . Jarvis Green DE . Richard Seymour DT . Matt Light T . Tom Brady QB . Kevin Faulk RB Total On Other Teams Roster: 6 . Daniel Graham TE Colorado (broncos) . Deion Branch WR Louisville (seattle) . Patrick Pass RB Georgia (texans) . Damien Woody C Boston College (lions) . Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State (pats) . Sean Morey WR Brown (cards) ------------------------------- DETROIT LIONS Total Players Drafted: 33 Total Still on Detroit's Roster: 5 . Kalimba Edwards DE . Jeff Backus T . Dominic Raiola C . Shaun Rogers NT . Jared DeVries DE Total On Other Teams Roster: 11 . Joey Harrington QB (falcons) . Andre' Goodman DB (dolphins) . John Owens TE (saints) . Matt Murphy TE (bills) . Jason Glenn LB (vikes) . Reuben Droughns RB (giants) . Chris Claiborne OLB (jags) . Clint Kriewaldt LB (steelers) . Charlie Batch QB (steelers) . Chris Liwienski T (dolphins) . Alfonso Boone DE (chiefs) ------------------------------- NEW ORLEANS SAINTS Total Players Drafted: 34 Total Still on Saints' Roster: 3 . Charles Grant DE (saints) . Deuce McAllister RB (saints) . Kevin Houser FB (saints) Total On Other Teams Roster: 12 . Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee (pats) . Mel Mitchell DB Western Kentucky (pats) . J.T. O'Sullivan QB California-Davis (lions) . John Gilmore TE Penn State (bears) . Kenny Smith DT Alabama (pats) . Moran Norris RB/FB Kansas (49ers) . Darren Howard DE Kansas State (eagles) . Terrelle Smith FB Arizona State (cards) . Tutan Reyes T Mississippi (jags) . Marc Bulger QB West Virginia (rams) . Kyle Turley G San Diego State (chiefs) . Fred Weary DB Florida (texans) __________________ - Mark Last edited by ChiefGator; 10-09-2007 at 04:25 PM..
Posts: 4,599

10-09-2007, 04:12 PM	#3
jidar MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: a Casino cash: $10004900	wow. Well that certainly doesn't look good.
Posts: 5,502

10-09-2007, 05:00 PM	#4
Dr. Van Halen Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Missoula, MT Casino cash: $10005005	This is excellent research. It might be significant to add draft position to this list, though. For example, the Ravens had top 10 picks three of these five years. The Colts had the one and the four during two of these years. I would expect a team with a top 5 pick to draft a keeper.
Posts: 824

10-09-2007, 05:02 PM	#5
BigVE Veteran Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: centralKs Casino cash: $10005250	Wow. That is sad. Thanks for the info though. __________________ Meh.
Posts: 4,829

10-09-2007, 06:11 PM	#8
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $1696899	Interesting that the only 24 percent of Patriots' draftees are still in the NFL.
Posts: 51,979

06-17-2008, 03:35 PM	#10
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $7582956	I linked to this thread from another, but I just noticed.. if we cut/trade Wesley, we will have NO players from drafts 1998-2002 still on the team. __________________ - Mark
Posts: 4,599

06-17-2008, 03:50 PM	#11
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Awesome job, Mr. ChiefGator. So, it does appear that either; A) We suck at drafting, or B) We suck at player development, or C) Both. FAX
Posts: 44,492

06-18-2008, 11:12 AM	#15
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3684454	Wow, im SHOCKED to learn the Chiefs drafted poorly from 98-2002. Thanks. __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 66,914