Haley versus McDaniels

[SenselessChiefsFan]

For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again.

Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year.

Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel.

In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels.

In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower.

In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris.

2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels.

2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat.

In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ?

In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos.

McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking.

2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th.

Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year.

Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB.

Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down.

However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's.

So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years.

McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin.

I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels.

And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality.

And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.

[Deberg_1990]

Im just not a big believer in Haley anymore. His Win/loss record speaks for itself, which is about on par with Herm Edwards Chiefs. He might have some upside, but i dont see a whole lot of it. 10 wins is about the most hes capable of. At times his teams look and play unprepared, and his offense goes dormant for 3 quarters only to come alive towards the end of the game. We have seen this for 3 seasons now.

[TRR]

So the answer is that when McDaniels has a better offense, it is because he is the better coach. When Haley has the better offense, it is because he has/had more talent.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by TRR

So the answer is that when McDaniels has a better offense, it is because he is the better coach. When Haley has the better offense, it is because he has/had more talent.
Posted via Mobile Device

Other than this year, and 2007, can you really argue against the fact that Haley has more talent?

[FAX]

This situation seems to have affected you in some way, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan.

Might I suggest that you consider developing a side-interest and stepping away from football for awhile? Like, say ... bowling, maybe? Bowling can be fun. It's pretty good exercise and they even have automatic scoring systems at most bowling alleys. Bowling groupies are cool, too ... even though they sometimes smell like socks. Then, after you've bowled a few games, picked up a bowling groupie for the night, and turned in your shoes, you can enjoy a burger and coke at the arcade.

FAX

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by FAX

This situation seems to have affected you in some way, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan.

Might I suggest that you consider developing a side-interest and stepping away from football for awhile? Like, say ... bowling, maybe? Bowling can be fun. It's pretty good exercise and they even have automatic scoring systems at most bowling alleys. Bowling groupies are cool, too ... even though they sometimes smell like socks. Then, after you've bowled a few games, picked up a bowling groupie for the night, and turned in your shoes, you can enjoy a burger and coke at the arcade.

FAX

Bowling sounds nice.

But, I suppose I should actually get to work. Either way, I need to get off this board...

[Terribilis]

Originally Posted by FAX

This situation seems to have affected you in some way, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan.

Might I suggest that you consider developing a side-interest and stepping away from football for awhile? Like, say ... bowling, maybe? Bowling can be fun. It's pretty good exercise and they even have automatic scoring systems at most bowling alleys. Bowling groupies are cool, too ... even though they sometimes smell like socks. Then, after you've bowled a few games, picked up a bowling groupie for the night, and turned in your shoes, you can enjoy a burger and coke at the arcade.

FAX

that sounds very pleasant actually.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by FAX

This situation seems to have affected you in some way, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan.

Might I suggest that you consider developing a side-interest and stepping away from football for awhile? Like, say ... bowling, maybe? Bowling can be fun. It's pretty good exercise and they even have automatic scoring systems at most bowling alleys. Bowling groupies are cool, too ... even though they sometimes smell like socks. Then, after you've bowled a few games, picked up a bowling groupie for the night, and turned in your shoes, you can enjoy a burger and coke at the arcade.

FAX

[FloridaMan88]

McDaniels offenses in Denver put up yardage, but I don't think they were necessarily a "great" offense. They were ranked 20th in points scored in 2009 and 19th in points scored in 2010.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

McDaniels offenses in Denver put up yardage, but I don't think they were necessarily a "great" offense. They were ranked 20th in points scored in 2009 and 19th in points scored in 2010.

This, a thousand times this.

First: Our D bailed out our shitty Offense when we went 6-0.

Second: When our Offense finally picked up as our Defense got worn out, broken down and exposed by lack of talent, we only passed the ball. Lucky for us that everything "clicked" for Kyle Orton when we needed it to, which brings me to...

Third: We never ran the ball well under McD. The Pats were an "effective" running team with McD as the OC. As in with Tom Brady back there the running game opened up just enough to make some plays and put up garbage time yardage.

McD was Shanny Junior without the pedigree or maturity, or the ability to kiss the ass of prima donna "stars" to keep them on the team. Oh yeah. It was wonderful to see my team pass for a shitload of yards but lose game after game because they couldn't do jack shit with the ball when they had to, and hand it back over to a Defense that closely resembled a wet paper towel. **** that noise.

[Mile High Mania]

McDaniels would be a good OC with your team, but not a HC... therefore, you should hire him to replace Haley.

[milkman]

Haley believes that an offense has to be able to run effectively out of the pro set to win championships.

McDumbass uses more spread to effectively mask the QB's deficiencies as a pro style QB.

Every SB has been won by teams, and QBs, that can run effectively out of the pro set.

That is the primary reason that most pro personnel people are looking at QBs and trying to figure out of they have what takes to learn the mechanics of the QB position out of the pro set.

[Terribilis]

Originally Posted by milkman

Haley believes that an offense has to be able to run effectively out of the pro set to win championships.

McDumbass uses more spread to effectively mask the QB's deficiencies as a pro style QB.

Every SB has been won by teams, and QBs, that can run effectively out of the pro set.

That is the primary reason that most pro personnel people are looking at QBs and trying to figure out of they have what takes to learn the mechanics of the QB position out of the pro set.

Do you believe an effective pro set QB/ offense is the only way to win a superbowl? just curious.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Terribilis

Do you believe an effective pro set QB/ offense is the only way to win a superbowl? just curious.

5 years ago I would have answered with a definitive yes.

However, with the rules set the way they are now, I am no longer certain that is the case.

[Terribilis]

Originally Posted by milkman

5 years ago I would have answered with a definitive yes.

However, with the rules set the way they are now, I am no longer certain that is the case.

That's kind of where I am at as well.