Do you trust Veach/Reid to draft WR or DE?

[emaw1979]

Everyone is pretty excited and rightfully so to have 6 top 100 draft picks in this incredibly deep draft. Two of our biggest needs are DE and WR and two of the deepest position groups in the draft. This couldn't be more perfect, right?

I'm starting to get a little nervous because this draft may be the difference between setting the franchise up for years of continued success or the end of a mini-dynasty. Given this team's draft history of DE and WR under Reid, I am a little worried. I fully trust them at drafting G/C positions and CBs anywhere in the draft. Their record with QB is pretty dang good as well. It's just CB and pass rush that I'm concerned about with them.


Reid/Dorsey

2013 DE Mike Catapano 7th...throw away pick. 2 Career sacks.
2014 DE Dee Ford. 1st round pick. Played more than 6 games twice in his 8 year career. Had 1 pro bowl season in 2018. Is he considered a bust?
2015 WR Chris Conley 3rd round. Was drafted more on potential. Best season so far for him was in Jacksonville 47/775/5.
2016 WR DeMarcus Robinson 4th...Mr Backwards. Role Player at best.
2016 WR Tyreek Hill 5th. Accidently ran into greatness. Was drafted as KR and the plan was to use him primarily as an RB.
2016 DE Dadi Nicolas 6th...
2017 DE Tanoh Kpass 2nd...bust. I'd have liked to see him with Spags his entire career though instead of the previous cluster ****.
2017 WR Jehu Chesson 4th...

Reid/Veach

2018 DE Beeland Speaks 2nd (traded up for this loser) BUST
2018 WR/CB/KR Tremon Smith 6th...I don't remember if he was CB then they moved him to WR or vice versa.
2019 WR Mecole Hardman 2nd BUST. The guy has all the speed and talent to be a very good WR but skips out on working out with Mahomes in the off-season and never seems to be on the same page as Mahomes.
2020 DE Michael Danna 5th. He plays because they have garbage at DE. Not a starter level but role type player, which is fine for a 5th rounder.
2021 DE Joshua Kaindoh 4th. Can a 4th rounder be a bust? MIA
2021 WR Cornell Powell 5th. Can a 5th rounder be a bust? MIA

Obviously, Reid did draft some good players at those positions in Philly.
DE Derrick Burgess
DE Trent Cole
WR Desean Jackson
WR Jeremy Macklin
WR Jason Avant

[staylor26]

1. Mecole Hardman is not a “bust”.

2. Breeland Speaks and Hardman are the only significant investments they’ve made in the draft at those positions.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by staylor26

1. Mecole Hardman is not a “bust”.

2. Breeland Speaks and Hardman are the only significant investments they’ve made in the draft at those positions.

He's a bust because of his draft position. If he was a 4th rounder then he'd be a good pick. He's a gimmick player that will never be a starting WR until he decides he's ready to put in the work.

Kpass was also a 2nd rounder.

[CupidStunt]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

He's a bust because of his draft position.

The FIFTY SIXTH player in the draft is not expected to be better than Hardman.

Maybe by drooling drafturbators who think every pick is a pro bowler, but in reality, every single team in the NFL would run Hardman's name to the podium if they were guaranteed his play.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by CupidStunt

The FIFTY SIXTH player in the draft is not expected to be better than Hardman.

Maybe by drooling drafturbators who think every pick is a pro bowler, but in reality, every single team in the NFL would run Hardman's name to the podium if they were guaranteed his play.

A 2nd rounder should be a starting quality player and we are going into year 4 and the Chiefs can't trust him to start after his failure with that last season. No one said he needed to be a pro bowler.

He was a boom or bust type receiver coming out who was very raw. He hasn't improved at all since his arrival. He doesn't appear to be willing to put in the work to improve his timing with his all-world QB and still makes silly route mistakes.

[CupidStunt]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

A 2nd rounder

56th overall you mean. That's a lot different to 33.

There's also a big difference between being a good role player and a bust. Arcega-Whiteside is a bust.

Just look at that 2nd round. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NFL_Draft

Between picks 40 and 64, Hardman is like the 4th or 5th best player.

You're just wrong. Might as well realize that now, or otherwise keep deluding yourself and repeating your woes 3 years from now. 20-25 of the guys taken in the upcoming 2nd round will ultimately be pretty dogshit.

Hopefully we end up with the next AJ Brown or Metcalf, but if not, give me Hardman and not JJAW, Andy Isabella, Parris Campbell or any of the other dozens of trashcans.

[MahomesMagic]

Not just Veach. Our entire scouting staff passed on

DK Metcalf
Terry McLaurin
Diontae Johnson


For Mecole.

I liked all of these players and thought both DK and McLaurin were 1st round talents.

I don't understand this pick still. Same as CEH who I actually did like...but Swift and Jonathan Taylor were still there.

As for DE, Speaks was a bad pick but it wasn't like we were passing obvious stars for him.

[BossChief]

You have unrealistic expectations for what you call a bust. Hardman isn’t an all pro, but to call him a bust is just silly.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by BossChief

You have unrealistic expectations for what you call a bust. Hardman isn’t an all pro, but to call him a bust is just silly.

Your 2nd rounders should be starters at least. Not gimmick jet sweep role players.

[Best22]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

Your 2nd rounders should be starters at least. Not gimmick jet sweep role players.

He averages 630 total yards and 4 TD per year (not to mention his impact on special teams. That 100 yard kick return against the Chargers turned the game around).

I wouldn’t expect any better from the 56th pick in the draft. He was also a late second, closer to the beginning of the 3rd roundthan beginning of the 2nd

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Best22

He averages 630 total yards and 4 TD per year

I wouldn’t expect any better from the 56th pick in the draft. He was also a late second, closer to the beginning of the 3rd roundthan beginning of the 2nd

AND he's been behind Tyreek Hill, who is the ultimate small, speedy WR.

It's been thought that Hardman was a reaction pick to the possibility that Hill would be gone with the psycho ex situation. Which would make sense.

It's difficult for small guys like that to play ON the line; they'll always struggle to get a clean/quick release at their size against press coverage.

And so Hardman has been a gadget guy. That doesn't mean he couldn't run routes from the 'Z' spot, where he gets a running start at it.

We'll see what Andy does, but I would expect that's the plan.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

Your 2nd rounders should be starters at least. Not gimmick jet sweep role players.

This simply isn't supported by the weight of the evidence. At all.

About 1/2 of the picks taken in the 2nd round in any given year will become starters by their 3rd NFL season.

Guys taken ahead of Hardman who have been less productive than him:

Clellin Ferrell
TJ Hockenson
Devin Bush
Jonah Williams
Rashan Gary (though he's finally coming along)
Dwayne Haskins....uh
Noah Fant
Andre Dillard
Jonathan Abram
Jerry Tillery
LJ Collier
Deandre Baker
N'Keal Harry
Rock Ya-Sin
Greg Little
Cody Ford
Trayvon Mullen
Drew Lock
Jahlani Tavai
Joejuan Williams
Greedy Williams
Marquise Blair
Ben Banogu
Irv Smith
Drew Sample
Lonnie Johnson

That's 26 guys; about half the picks ahead of him. And frankly I'm leaving out another half-dozen close questions because I just don't feel like arguing about it.

This idea that 2nd rounders are just going to become starters is simply asinine. There are 7 guys taken in the 2nd round that year who were essentially 'day 1' starters.

Your position w/r/t Veach's ability to draft doesn't mean anything because you lack the proper perspective to meaningfully evaluate his performance.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This simply isn't supported by the weight of the evidence. At all.

About 1/2 of the picks taken in the 2nd round in any given year will become starters by their 3rd NFL season.

Guys taken ahead of Hardman who have been less productive than him:

Clellin Ferrell
TJ Hockenson
Devin Bush
Jonah Williams
Rashan Gary (though he's finally coming along)
Dwayne Haskins....uh
Noah Fant
Andre Dillard
Jonathan Abram
Jerry Tillery
LJ Collier
Deandre Baker
N'Keal Harry
Rock Ya-Sin
Greg Little
Cody Ford
Trayvon Mullen
Drew Lock
Jahlani Tavai
Joejuan Williams
Greedy Williams
Marquise Blair
Ben Banogu
Irv Smith
Drew Sample
Lonnie Johnson

That's 26 guys; about half the picks ahead of him. And frankly I'm leaving out another half-dozen close questions because I just don't feel like arguing about it.

This idea that 2nd rounders are just going to become starters is simply asinine. There are 7 guys taken in the 2nd round that year who were essentially 'day 1' starters.

Your position w/r/t Veach's ability to draft doesn't mean anything because you lack the proper perspective to meaningfully evaluate his performance.

Doesn't this somewhat blow apart the "sit tight and make all our picks" thought process though? If they feel a guy is worth it, trade up?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Doesn't this somewhat blow apart the "sit tight and make all our picks" thought process though? If they feel a guy is worth it, trade up?

No.

Because about 1/2 those guys are 1st round picks.

They're slightly less likely to bust, but not by orders of magnitude.

So keep your picks, get an EXTRA guy and let the law of large numbers work to your advantage.

[BryanBusby]

Calling Day 3 picks busts is ****ing dumb and it's Maclin. What the **** are they teaching you emaw ****s