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Old 11-01-2015, 02:28 PM  
beach tribe beach tribe is offline
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Browns looking to trade Alex Mack and Joe Thomas
Browns looking to trade Alex Mack and Joe Thomas

The news is rather surprising given that Thomas is under contract through 2018 -- he has no guaranteed money for 2016 -- and Mack, who was almost lost in free agency to the Jacksonville Jaguars a season ago, has a no-trade clause. Mack -- who was listed by our Marc Sessler as a prime trade candidate earlier this week -- can opt out of his long-term deal after this season, though, which could be a motivating factor.

Still, this is an interesting and rather unorthodox approach to the trade deadline. The team likely feels they can replace Mack with 2015 first-round pick Cam Erving and slot one of their other highly-regarded offensive linemen in for Thomas.

Rapoport added that the team is also open to dealing former high-priced free agent acquisition Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo, the No. 6 overall pick from the 2013 draft. This, after already dealing Trent Richardson, their No. 3 overall pick from the 2012 draft. If you're just now sensing a pattern here, catch up. This is Browns football.

This would be the ultimate white flag raised on the 2015 season considering the Browns were going to hang their hat on the run game. Thomas has been one of the franchise's greatest players and, in a way, a trade to a contending opponent would be bittersweet. On one hand, he could finally put his skills to better use, but on the other, he would be departing a team that hinged on his professionalism for years.

Many of these talks often break down but scars from certain names leaking remain. So if general manager Ray Farmer is interested in getting it done, the clock is ticking. Nov. 3, 4 p.m. ET is coming quite soon.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...and-joe-thomas
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:17 PM   #76
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Has anybody said Alex Smith isn't part of the problem? Quote please?

And no one has said that every player has to be a probowler. But improving one of the worst units in professional football is a smart thing to do.
Look, I'm mostly with you if our plan was to build around a future QB. Or if I felt the changes will fix the QB itself. But we've been through this drill a million times before. We know that fixing around the problem will only lead to unending loyalty to the problem. And most of us know our QB well enough to know he's limiting the OL and WR just as much as they are limiting him.

So yeah, if this is part of a LT plan to change the plumbing, great. But if it's just putting bandaids on leaking pipes, I want no part of it.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:23 PM   #77
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Longer drives also helps keep the defense off the field. Taking less sacks helps the defense also.
I have been the biggest supporter of a true game management offense. I get the value of having a good game manager. Trust me, I've been a supporter of Eli where others have been down on him. I've also been very, very supportive of what Alex is TRYING to do.

Our third down conversion rate isn't going to improve appreciably if Alex insists on throwing 5 yards short of the sticks. Smith had an excellent OL in SF and his third down conversion rate there was also pretty bad. So how much do we think this is actually going to help him?
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:27 PM   #78
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So how much do we think this is actually going to help him?
Gee, probably best to never find out.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:28 PM   #79
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The team can't afford to trade picks for old veterans. Too many depth issues on defense.
I wonder whats more important.. A defensive depth player, who can MAYBE start 3-4 years down the road, or a hall of fame LT who WILL help fix our largest hole for the next 3-4 years?

Fixing a 60 sack season Offensive line is more important than a defensive depth player.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:29 PM   #80
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**** you and your demands

If you're convinced he'll never be better, not matter how good the rest of the team is, AND you're convinced that the team sucks in other phases and areas simply because he's holding them back, AND you're convinced he'll never be better so there's not use in improving the team to see, **** your demands. You get to watch, the end.
In a perfect world where you had unlimited payroll, sure. But if the Chiefs are going to stubbornly stick with Alex Smith, then I'd rather find ways for the defense to win games for him vs. giving him weapons he has no idea how to deal with.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:30 PM   #81
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Gee, probably best to never find out.
Or you can rewind the tape to his long career in SF and say we already know the answer to that question.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:32 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by jonzie04 View Post
I wonder whats more important.. A defensive depth player, who can MAYBE start 3-4 years down the road, or a hall of fame LT who WILL help fix our largest hole for the next 3-4 years?

Fixing a 60 sack season Offensive line is more important than a defensive depth player.
Alex Smith is going to take a ton of sacks, regardless how well the O-Line blocks for him.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:33 PM   #83
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Alex Smith is going to take a ton of sacks, regardless how well the O-Line blocks for him.
And if he doesn't take a sack, what happens if he has more time?
He's still going to go to the checkdown. Especially in the red zone.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:34 PM   #84
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And if he doesn't take a sack, what happens if he has more time?
He's still going to go to the checkdown. Especially in the red zone.
Don't agree with that.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:35 PM   #85
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Alex Smith is going to take a ton of sacks, regardless how well the O-Line blocks for him.
Thats true. I'm just trying to figure out how Discuss thrower thinks.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:35 PM   #86
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Smith is indecisive on everything other than the shortest throws. He doesn't see receivers down the deep middle part of the field at all and panics at the first hint of pressure.

He had an elite line in SF with a great TE and RB and all that team did was kick FGs.
I th8nk he's indecisive because of getting hit alot so he starts seeing ghosts not playing with confidence.

Yeah, that line was a mauling group in SF but they didn't pass block near as well, some probably due to Smith's indecisiveness no doubt.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:37 PM   #87
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I th8nk he's indecisive because of getting hit alot so he starts seeing ghosts not playing with confidence.

Yeah, that line was a mauling group in SF but they didn't pass block near as well, some probably due to Smith's indecisiveness no doubt.
Alex Smith's indecisiveness made that O-Line look worse in pass blocking than they actually were.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:42 PM   #88
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Don't agree with that.
A new OL isn't going to make Alex more aggressive. His style will always be to stare down a primary read and only throw if the guy is wide open. If that's not available either check down or run the ball with no intention of throwing on the run. Buying him more time will limit the sacks which is good, but it's not going to stop Alex from being Alex. The only thing I've seen that changes Alex is the quality of the defense. When the defense sucks, Alex attacks. When the defense plays well, he goes into a shell.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:44 PM   #89
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Alex Smith's indecisiveness made that O-Line look worse in pass blocking than they actually were.
Maybe. But as we've seen since he left, Harbaugh had a different type of gameplan than throwing it very much from a traditional drop back style. That offense was built to grind it out and run the play action game.

I saw a stat a few weeks back that Smith was pressured, in average, the fastest from the snap of any qb in the league.

I'll go ahead and put some of that in him for playing the way he do3s, but when you're getting hit like he has been this year, it's gonna mentally effect people.

Smith isn't a qb that can overcome that stuff, obviously, but as we've seen the last 2 weeks, if the offensive line can protect, we've got some really good skill guys that can get open.

So, I'd like to see what happens if that continues
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:44 PM   #90
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Thats true. I'm just trying to figure out how Discuss thrower thinks.
The team isn't good enough to win now. Period.

They need two if not three new starting linebackers beyond the problem of just being shallow roster in general.

The Seahawks model shows you need a minimum of four years of drafting to field a balanced competitive roster. At best the Chiefs are two years away from that -and that's assuming you include the UDFA guys that have been picked up as draft picks.

Don't fall for the okeydoke that the team beating Houston, the Roethlisberger-less Steelers and the dumpster fire that is the Detroit Lions.

A rebuild is inevitable, and trading picks for vets hinders the rebuilding effort.
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