So... we're like... *certain* Dawand Jones can't play LT?

Direckshun · 03-12-2023, 10:53 AM

I've been negatory on Dawand Jones being a Chief, because the Chiefs don't want two lumbering tackles.

Well now that Brown is taking off.... and he's the professional comparison for Jones....

I know the guy is 375, but you can get that down to 335. Those feet don't need to be much more nimble, and I think it makes the most sense for the Chiefs to solidify RT in free agency and go get the LT they believe in at the Draft.

And Jones... well.

We know the Chiefs liked what OBJ gave them at LT so much they offered him primo dollar.

Maybe they see enough of him in Jones.

GloucesterChief · 03-12-2023, 10:56 AM

I still want to see if we can get Dillard a shot. He is a better pass blocker than run blocker.

kccrow · 03-12-2023, 11:09 AM

The Buckeyes played him a bit at LT as a Freshman and Sophomore but when they had to have a new starter when Petit-Frere left, they chose to slide Paris Johnson from LG to LT and leave Dawand at RT. So can he? Yeah, sure. He actually played okay there. That said, the Buckeyes didn't choose to put him there for a full season which is pretty telling in the end.

Anyhow, I honestly don't know how I feel about it. Just like with Freeland, I always worry about the super tall dudes at OT. I feel like 6'5" is the sweet spot. 6'6" is fine. 6'7"+ is starting to get into guys that really get a bit clunky with their kick slide, knee bend, reaching, etc. It's not that you can't live with those guys, you absolutely can. I just prefer my tackles to be a certain way.

Couch-Potato · 03-12-2023, 11:09 AM

I like him! Longest arm length ever recorded at the combine, probably the biggest guy ever recorded in the league.

**The Franchise** · 03-12-2023, 11:14 AM

Can you get him down to 335? Probably. Is that something that I want to be worried about every season? Nope.

Direckshun · 03-12-2023, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Can you get him down to 335? Probably. Is that something that I want to be worried about every season? Nope.

You leave that to Reid, Heck, and Mahomes.

kccrow · 03-12-2023, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

You leave that to Reid, Heck, and Mahomes.

Heck is lol.

He's never developed anyone here. They either walked in the door a good player or they left as shitty as they were to begin with. I have absolutely zero faith in Heck ever developing anything, much less helping anyone with weight loss.

**RealSNR** · 03-12-2023, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Heck is lol.

He's never developed anyone here. They either walked in the door a good player or they left as shitty as they were to begin with. I have absolutely zero faith in Heck ever developing anything, much less helping anyone with weight loss.

LDT?

What about the dudes who were kind of crap under Pioli like Jeff Allen?

Does Heck not get any credit for turning Wylie from an absolute nobody into a starting RT for a Super Bowl team?

Austin Reiter? We actually won a SB with that guy, you know. Hell, I'll even give him Cam Erving. That guy's career was DEAD in Cleveland, and when he left KC he managed to get paid by some other team.

There have been plenty of "who the **** is this guy" linemen to end up playing much better than what was expected out of them. I don't see how else you can credit anybody but Andy Heck for that.

Hell... Zach Fulton. Zach Fulton was a crashpost guard but arguably gave our offense entirely new life when he got moved to C. Isn't that Heck's thing? Playing guys at multiple positions?

We can do a lot worse than Andy Heck as our OL coach.

Direckshun · 03-12-2023, 01:01 PM

Allegretti

kccrow · 03-12-2023, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

LDT?

What about the dudes who were kind of crap under Pioli like Jeff Allen?

Does Heck not get any credit for turning Wylie from an absolute nobody into a starting RT for a Super Bowl team?

Austin Reiter? We actually won a SB with that guy, you know. Hell, I'll even give him Cam Erving. That guy's career was DEAD in Cleveland, and when he left KC he managed to get paid by some other team.

There have been plenty of "who the **** is this guy" linemen to end up playing much better than what was expected out of them. I don't see how else you can credit anybody but Andy Heck for that.

Hell... Zach Fulton. Zach Fulton was a crashpost guard but arguably gave our offense entirely new life when he got moved to C. Isn't that Heck's thing? Playing guys at multiple positions?

We can do a lot worse than Andy Heck as our OL coach.

I suppose he has a few that weren't hitting my mind but it sure seems like it takes guys a long time to develop under him if they aren't plug-and-play (Creed and Smith were absolutely plug-and-play, both were talked about as potential 1st rounders... Creed slipped on length a bit and positional value and Smith for his heart thing) Fisher and LDT took like 5 years to be solid players. Fulton was a bit quicker. Morse was P&P. Allen was a pretty solid guard before Heck was here, not sure I give him much credit for a guy that started as a rookie and was a high 2nd round pick. Not sure I feel much about Wylie. He's a ****ing turnstile. He played well in the Super Bowl but I feel like that turf helped a lot. Meh.

I dunno, I don't think guys have developed all that well under his tutelage. Like you said, we could do alot worse but I also think we could do better. It is what it is. It just worries me to see the lack of progress with OBj and Niang and so on and projecting it to a tackle project in the draft. And I'll never understand him not pushing Reid to start anyone but Wylie at RT by mid-season. It worked out in the end but it wasn't pretty along the way and it damned near cost us more than once with some hits Mahomes took.

BryanBusby · 03-12-2023, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Heck is lol.

He's never developed anyone here. They either walked in the door a good player or they left as shitty as they were to begin with. I have absolutely zero faith in Heck ever developing anything, much less helping anyone with weight loss.

This is just dead ass wrong. Borderline reeruned.

He turned the Browns trashcan in Reiter and Wiley into adequate starters.
Morse turned into a top 5 Center.
Branden Albert was able to have a big year in 2013 and cashed in.
He had Remmers playing passable at RT.
Hudson had a big rebound under him in 2013.
Fisher became a solid starter.
Smith and Creed are high end.
Got adequate play from a lumbering OBJ that struggled with footwork.
Allegretti became a strong reserve player.

staylor26 · 03-12-2023, 04:37 PM

Yea, kinda sounds like you don't want to give Heck credit for anybody that was good right away or anybody that took some time.

Seems umm unfair.

The Chiefs get the most out of every OL that comes through that building. That speaks volumes.

kozzman555 · 03-12-2023, 05:33 PM

Ya, I've been a fan of a lot of kccrow's takes, but this one isn't it, I don't think.

kccrow · 03-12-2023, 06:25 PM

You guys can give credit to him for top 50 centers being good, I'm not. They should be ****ing good. A top 50 center is basically the top centers in college football every year. Once in a while one slips into the first round but most go where the Chiefs grabbed Morse and Hudson and Creed. Those are just guys you expect to start for your football team out the gate. That's going to be John Michael Schmitz this year for someone.

Wylie almost got Mahomes ****ing killed the past year and a half. A passable starter is beyond ridiculous to me. In what way was he passable? Passable in that the only game he was even remotely quality was in the Super Bowl where the turf aided him immensely because DEs couldn't get footing to launch into a rush? Otherwise, he was the worst tackle in the NFL.

And then we're going to give him credit for every player from past regimes that didn't suck to start with? Remmers and Albert? You can't be serious. Albert was a solid LT long before Heck got here. Remmers was already a starter at RT in the NFL before he got here. Remmers was inconsistent throughout his career and he was here too. Heck didn't do shit to improve them. That's just fluffy bullshit. If you want to give credit to developing Remmers, give it to the Oline coaches in Carolina and Minnesota.

Fisher was the 1st overall pick and took an easy 5 years to turn into a good LT. The 1st overall pick. Man alive, that's a guy that should be a good LT in short order. I get it was a down draft, but Fisher was a top-10 pick in pretty much any draft. He had the pedigree to be special and he was finally turning into special those last couple of seasons, too bad he had that Achilles.

OBj's pressures got worse each year. He's nearly as much a turnstile as Wylie. Thank **** Mahomes is mobile and aware. He sure saved our tackles' asses from doubling their sack totals.

I'll give him credit for Reiter, Allegretti, and LDT. Those were some project guys that worked out well that he made into solid starters. I can concede enough in the argument to say, sure, go ahead and give him a bit of passing credit for guys that did work out that should have (like Creed, Hudson, Morse, Smith) but there are few career examples of molding balls of clay into great players. LDT is the closest he has. I think he's just a very average Oline coach. He's certainly not special and he's not a guy I'd trust to make something out of a guy from something he maybe doesn't look like he already is. And that's where my argument is. Do I think he can turn Jones into a good LT? Nope, I really don't.

BryanBusby · 03-12-2023, 06:49 PM

Albert was coming off a lot of downs vs ups before he got the big year in 2013 and cashed in.

Ask the Bills what they think about a slam dunk Center. lmao

Remmers was just fine for a trash can find.

Fisher is a top 10 pick in any draft? Get the **** out of here.

OBJ had a peak playoff run once they got him back into shape.

Ldt was average as ****, but still another trashcan development into a solid blocker.

Wylie was never meant to be more than what he is and they won 2 Super Bowls off it.

My point stands.

03-12-2023, 10:53 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	*So... we're like... certain* Dawand Jones can't play LT?** I've been negatory on Dawand Jones being a Chief, because the Chiefs don't want two lumbering tackles. Well now that Brown is taking off.... and he's the professional comparison for Jones.... I know the guy is 375, but you can get that down to 335. Those feet don't need to be much more nimble, and I think it makes the most sense for the Chiefs to solidify RT in free agency and go get the LT they believe in at the Draft. And Jones... well. We know the Chiefs liked what OBJ gave them at LT so much they offered him primo dollar. Maybe they see enough of him in Jones.
Posts: 59,693

03-12-2023, 10:56 AM	#2
GloucesterChief MVP Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $-1933546	I still want to see if we can get Dillard a shot. He is a better pass blocker than run blocker.
Posts: 13,285

03-12-2023, 11:09 AM	#3
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1220000	The Buckeyes played him a bit at LT as a Freshman and Sophomore but when they had to have a new starter when Petit-Frere left, they chose to slide Paris Johnson from LG to LT and leave Dawand at RT. So can he? Yeah, sure. He actually played okay there. That said, the Buckeyes didn't choose to put him there for a full season which is pretty telling in the end. Anyhow, I honestly don't know how I feel about it. Just like with Freeland, I always worry about the super tall dudes at OT. I feel like 6'5" is the sweet spot. 6'6" is fine. 6'7"+ is starting to get into guys that really get a bit clunky with their kick slide, knee bend, reaching, etc. It's not that you can't live with those guys, you absolutely can. I just prefer my tackles to be a certain way.
Posts: 14,099	1 0

03-12-2023, 11:09 AM	#4
Couch-Potato Simmons @ 32 > Fisher @ 1 Join Date: Jan 2015 Casino cash: $183065	I like him! Longest arm length ever recorded at the combine, probably the biggest guy ever recorded in the league.
Posts: 7,450

03-12-2023, 11:14 AM	#5
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2065047	Can you get him down to 335? Probably. Is that something that I want to be worried about every season? Nope.
Posts: 92,316	1 0

03-12-2023, 01:01 PM	#9
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	Allegretti
Posts: 59,693

03-12-2023, 04:37 PM	#12
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-2050960	Yea, kinda sounds like you don't want to give Heck credit for anybody that was good right away or anybody that took some time. Seems umm unfair. The Chiefs get the most out of every OL that comes through that building. That speaks volumes.
Posts: 52,905	2 0

03-12-2023, 05:33 PM	#13
kozzman555 Starter Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Omaha Casino cash: $-359600	Ya, I've been a fan of a lot of kccrow's takes, but this one isn't it, I don't think.
Posts: 364

03-12-2023, 06:25 PM	#14
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1220000	You guys can give credit to him for top 50 centers being good, I'm not. They should be **ing good. A top 50 center is basically the top centers in college football every year. Once in a while one slips into the first round but most go where the Chiefs grabbed Morse and Hudson and Creed. Those are just guys you expect to start for your football team out the gate. That's going to be John Michael Schmitz this year for someone. Wylie almost got Mahomes ing killed the past year and a half. A passable starter is beyond ridiculous to me. In what way was he passable? Passable in that the only game he was even remotely quality was in the Super Bowl where the turf aided him immensely because DEs couldn't get footing to launch into a rush? Otherwise, he was the worst tackle in the NFL. And then we're going to give him credit for every player from past regimes that didn't suck to start with? Remmers and Albert? You can't be serious. Albert was a solid LT long before Heck got here. Remmers was already a starter at RT in the NFL before he got here. Remmers was inconsistent throughout his career and he was here too. Heck didn't do shit to improve them. That's just fluffy bullshit. If you want to give credit to developing Remmers, give it to the Oline coaches in Carolina and Minnesota. Fisher was the 1st overall pick and took an easy 5 years to turn into a good LT. The 1st overall pick. Man alive, that's a guy that should be a good LT in short order. I get it was a down draft, but Fisher was a top-10 pick in pretty much any draft. He had the pedigree to be special and he was finally turning into special those last couple of seasons, too bad he had that Achilles. OBj's pressures got worse each year. He's nearly as much a turnstile as Wylie. Thank ** Mahomes is mobile and aware. He sure saved our tackles' asses from doubling their sack totals. I'll give him credit for Reiter, Allegretti, and LDT. Those were some project guys that worked out well that he made into solid starters. I can concede enough in the argument to say, sure, go ahead and give him a bit of passing credit for guys that did work out that should have (like Creed, Hudson, Morse, Smith) but there are few career examples of molding balls of clay into great players. LDT is the closest he has. I think he's just a very average Oline coach. He's certainly not special and he's not a guy I'd trust to make something out of a guy from something he maybe doesn't look like he already is. And that's where my argument is. Do I think he can turn Jones into a good LT? Nope, I really don't.
Posts: 14,099

03-12-2023, 06:49 PM	#15
BryanBusby In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $3169900 VARSITY	Albert was coming off a lot of downs vs ups before he got the big year in 2013 and cashed in. Ask the Bills what they think about a slam dunk Center. lmao Remmers was just fine for a trash can find. Fisher is a top 10 pick in any draft? Get the ** out of here. OBJ had a peak playoff run once they got him back into shape. Ldt was average as **, but still another trashcan development into a solid blocker. Wylie was never meant to be more than what he is and they won 2 Super Bowls off it. My point stands.
Posts: 22,633