Chiefs Dorsey in the 3-4. - Page 7

Direckshun · 01-13-2009, 06:35 PM

Is it even remotely possible?

A couple speculations out there are that Pioli wants to gravitate towards the 3-4 with our defense.

I think whatever determinations you make about our defense have to be tied into what Dorsey, by far our most expensive defensive player (Surtain about to be released), is capable of.

I think it's pretty clear Dorsey's not NT material, but might he get by as a 3-4 DE?

What are your thoughts?

Zouk · 01-13-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Seymour was drafted (and played) as a tackle, if I remember correctly, he was later moved to end after they drafted Wilfork (and he may still play inside on certain downs for all I know, I haven't watched a lot of recent Patriot games). As I recall, he was a relatively dominant player at tackle, and a key to their early success.

But then they took Ty Warren at #13 too. They only get 1 first round pick per year and they used it on the DE position twice. Plus both were 1st half of the 1st round picks.

keg in kc · 01-14-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zouk

But then they took Ty Warren at #13 too. They only get 1 first round pick per year and they used it on the DE position twice. Plus both were 1st half of the 1st round picks.

That's your fallacy, right there. He wasn't drafted as a 3-4 end. Seymour was drafted as a tackle. And he wasn't moved because he was a bust; he was a pro bowler as a tackle.

mylittlepony · 01-14-2009, 01:11 AM

My 3-4 lineup with Haynesworth picked up in FA and Clint Sintim as the chiefs #34 pick:

McBride, Haynesworth, Dorsey
Hali, DJ, Thomas, Satim(#34 in this draft)
Flowers, Pollard, Page, Carr

RustShack · 01-14-2009, 01:22 AM

------Pollard--------Page--------
Flowers------------------Carr----
Babin--Williams---Johnson---Hali--
---Dorsey---Haynesworth----Tank-

RustShack · 01-14-2009, 01:26 AM

Didn't the Patriots draft DT Richard Seymor sixth overall and move him to DE in the 3-4?

Ebolapox · 01-14-2009, 01:30 AM

as fast as williams is, he'll be a rush-backer in the 3-4. hell, wasn't he something of a sack artist at nebraska?

**AustinChief** · 01-14-2009, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Do you at least acknowledge how unimportant that position is in that defense?

The 3-4 is all about the NT and the rush backers. No team in history would spend a top 5 pick on a 3-4 DE.

No I wont. you put an athelete like Dorsey in that role and maybe we change the landscape of the position.... don't tie your self into what was... look at what could be....

I remeber as a kid hearing how the West Coast offense was a gimmick... and now how "spread" qbs can't survive in the NFL... wake up and realize that the NFL is gonna change whether you are up to it or not.....

Mecca · 01-14-2009, 03:10 AM

Well in fairness the spread QB thing is proving to be mostly true...most QB's from the spread are failures.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-14-2009, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

No I wont. you put an athelete like Dorsey in that role and maybe we change the landscape of the position.... don't tie your self into what was... look at what could be....

I remeber as a kid hearing how the West Coast offense was a gimmick... and now how "spread" qbs can't survive in the NFL... wake up and realize that the NFL is gonna change whether you are up to it or not.....

If you want an athlete at a position, the best athletes in any 3-4 are the OLBs, not the 3-4 DE's. 3-4 DE is for a guy who weighs 290 lbs who can't rush the passer but is good against the run. He occupies blockers while the real threats get to the quarterback.

And Spread QBs haven't done anything in the NFL. What is this illustrious list of Spread QBs?

You know what I remember hearing as a kid? All about the Run N' Shoot. I also remember the Wildcat from just this year. I guess the pistol and the A-11 must be up next.

And Seymour was drafted as a 4-3 DT. No team in the last 10 years has taken a 3-4 end in the top 10. The only one I can think of that even took one in the top 15 was Ty Warren at 13.

Would you have taken Larry Johnson and split him out wide in 2004, or made Tony a Jason Dunn style tight end? Of course not, just like no one would argue that we should have moved Roaf to RG, and why Denver wouldn't have Champ Bailey playing nothing but Tampa 2 soft coverage. Maybe the Lions should make Calvin Johnson a possession receiver, and the Bears can move Urlacher to the strong side, while putting Tommie Harris at LDE. Why would you take your most talented players and put them in less important positions?

milkman · 01-14-2009, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Disagree...in fact I think Hali would make a better OLB in a 3-4 than a DE in a 4-3

I don't think that Hali has the speed to play LB in the NFL.

Mecca · 01-14-2009, 04:02 AM

If you put Tamba Hali at OLB in any scheme you are just asking for bad things to happen.

unlurking · 01-14-2009, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

That's your fallacy, right there. He wasn't drafted as a 3-4 end. Seymour was drafted as a tackle. And he wasn't moved because he was a bust; he was a pro bowler as a tackle.

So, it was NOT WRONG for Seymour to be drafted as a tackle, and moved to DE even though he was a good tackle.

What is WRONG about doing this with Dorsey?

milkman · 01-14-2009, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

So, it was NOT WRONG for Seymour to be drafted as a tackle, and moved to DE even though he was a good tackle.

What is WRONG about doing this with Dorsey?

Seymour is taller and leaner (6'6", 310) than Glen Dorsey (6'1", 297), so he's a better fit as a 34 DE than Dorsey.

Amnorix · 01-14-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Seymour is taller and leaner (6'6", 310) than Glen Dorsey (6'1", 297), so he's a better fit as a 34 DE than Dorsey.

Taller is better for the DE, but 300'ish pounds is about right for Patriots style DEs.

Also, don't get overhwlemed by the need to instantly switch to 3-4. Even BB ran the 4-3 when he first came here, mixing in a little 3-4, because his PERSONNEL at the time would not let him run a 3-4 defense very well.

Even if Pioli and the HC want to go to a 3-4, you should not expect to see it on opening day next year as the primary defensive alignment.

Amnorix · 01-14-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Didn't the Patriots draft DT Richard Seymor sixth overall and move him to DE in the 3-4?

Yes, though he also plays DT when we do a 4 man line, and he has played the occassional nose guard.

01-13-2009, 06:35 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	Dorsey in the 3-4. Is it even remotely possible? A couple speculations out there are that Pioli wants to gravitate towards the 3-4 with our defense. I think whatever determinations you make about our defense have to be tied into what Dorsey, by far our most expensive defensive player (Surtain about to be released), is capable of. I think it's pretty clear Dorsey's not NT material, but might he get by as a 3-4 DE? What are your thoughts?
Posts: 59,693

01-14-2009, 01:11 AM	#93
mylittlepony Starter Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Casino cash: $10005855	My 3-4 lineup with Haynesworth picked up in FA and Clint Sintim as the chiefs #34 pick: McBride, Haynesworth, Dorsey Hali, DJ, Thomas, Satim(#34 in this draft) Flowers, Pollard, Page, Carr
Posts: 921

01-14-2009, 01:22 AM	#94
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $3036954	------Pollard--------Page-------- Flowers------------------Carr---- Babin--Williams---Johnson---Hali-- ---Dorsey---Haynesworth----Tank- __________________
Posts: 15,126

01-14-2009, 01:26 AM	#95
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $3036954	Didn't the Patriots draft DT Richard Seymor sixth overall and move him to DE in the 3-4? __________________
Posts: 15,126

01-14-2009, 01:30 AM	#96
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $-1780097	as fast as williams is, he'll be a rush-backer in the 3-4. hell, wasn't he something of a sack artist at nebraska?
Posts: 26,523

01-14-2009, 03:10 AM	#98
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-712950	Well in fairness the spread QB thing is proving to be mostly true...most QB's from the spread are failures.
Posts: 115,380

01-14-2009, 04:02 AM	#101
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-712950	If you put Tamba Hali at OLB in any scheme you are just asking for bad things to happen.
Posts: 115,380