Can't stop an offense? Make it illegal!

[modocsot]

A-11 Offense Now Has to Play Defense

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=911196

Kurt Bryan, the football coach at Piedmont (Calif.) High School, has heard the wail of protests against his A-11 offense. Deceiving, skirting the rules, unsportsmanlike. It has been labeled gimmicky and it has its enemies.

That's why he can only imagine that the worst is in store for his and Steve Humphries' offense in the next week.

The A-11 offense, a super-sized spread with eligible receivers popping up all over the field, has been banned by some high school state associations. Bryan is worried the National Federation of State High School Associations is going to adopt rule changes for 2009 that will ruin the scheme in the states where it is used.

The football rules committee of the NHFS met Jan. 24-26 in Indianapolis and Bryan said the committee discussed proposals that would effectively take the fledgling A-11 off the chalkboard.

Brad Garrett, the assistant executive director of the Oregon Activities Association and vice chairman of the NFHS Rules Football Committee, said rules committee members cannot talk about proposed rule changes or how they voted.

The rules committee makes recommendations to the NFHS national governing board, which votes whether to accept recommendations, but the board typically passes what it is presented by the rules committee. The board is expected to release rule changes for 2009 in the next week.

One of the proposals the committee discussed, which would curtail the A-11, was to take away an exception to rule 7-2-5b that allows players with jersey numbers 1-49 and 80-99 to be down linemen, and eligible pass receivers, in a scrimmage kick formation.

The A-11 (A11Offense.com) creators used that exception to have all of their players wear numbers 1-49 or 80-99, numbers reserved for receivers, and said if the numbering is allowed for scrimmage kicks it should be allowed for all offensive plays. Referees working A-11 games, Bryan said, have not thrown flags for ineligible receivers and allowed the offense to proceed throughout the game.

Bryan and Humphries, who is Piedmont's director of football operations, said the National Federation might institute rules to block the use of the A-11 by member schools, but that is not going to make the offense go away.

"There is a demonstrative benefit of using the A-11 offense, and there is room in America for more than one style of football," Bryan said. "There is a loud, ugly minority out there that is against this offense.

"This is standing up for the little guy in football, the schools without the numbers of kids or the big linemen. There is a huge disconnect between the players on the ground, the kids that play in this offense and the National Federation."

Bryan said if the National Federation adopts rules curtailing the use of the A-11 among NFHS members, then there will be a movement to create a federation for schools that want to use the A-11.

"What is ridiculous is there already are A-11 teams playing non-A-11 teams without incident," Bryan said. "We are playing within the rules."

Bryan said as far as he knows the opponents of the A-11 offense have not been to a game to watch the offense and examine it closely.

In the A-11, players do not wear the traditional jersey numbers for linemen: they use 1-49, and 80 through 99, which is legal. This means that all 11 players on offense can be eligible for a pass.

In essence, the offense creates an island for 11 players, spreading the defense out, and looking for one-on-one matchups.

If a player gets set on the line, and another player lines up outside that player, the inside player is ineligible to catch a pass. What the A-11 can do is have offensive players wait until the final seconds of the play clock and then take positions on the line making it difficult for the defense to know, until the last moment, which receivers are eligible.

The North Carolina High School Athletic Association declared the A-11 offense was an "unsporting act" and banned its members from using the offense.

Officials from state associations who say their members cannot use the offense said the A-11 uses a loophole in the rules to deceive opponents. That loophole could get closed in the next week.

"The rule was written for a scrimmage kick exception, the number requirement, to aid in terms of long snappers and blocking situations," said Mark Dreibelbis, the supervisor of officials for the North Carolina High School Athletic Association. "They are taking a rule book exception for a scrimmage kick and putting it [in] place every down of the game and that is not the intent of the rule and it is outside the spirit of the rule code and it is an attempt to deceive and attempts to deceive are unsporting acts."

Dr. Ralph Swearngin, the executive director of the Georgia High School Association, warned schools in Georgia during the 2008 season about using the A-11 because he said it broke National Federation rules.

On its Web site, the GHSA's warning said any player in a game in a scrimmage kick situation (punt, field goal, extra point) wearing jerseys 1-49 to 80-99 still "must assume an initial position on his line of scrimmage between the ends and he remains an ineligible forward-pass receiver during the down."

Bryan said it is not his intent to try and lead schools to break away from the National Federation. He has proposed a sub-federation for schools that want to play A-11 football.

"Allowing teams the right to use A-11 football if they want to is extremely viable," Bryan said. "And there are plenty of people who will be ready to help set that up so everybody wins."

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Yeah... great lesson for the youngsters. If you can't win by playing within the established rules, then find a loophole and do what you want anyway, regardless of things like tradition, honor, and respect for the game. Yeah, they're just high schoolers... let em cheat and have fun....

Teaching kids that it's OK to take advantage of loopholes in the rules is bad no matter how you try to justify it.

Future members of Congress or Hedge Fund Managers/Wall Street Financiers.

Hell, if these kids are taught how to take advantage of loopholes and screw over things like honor and respect, they'll end up with 11 million dollar end of year bonuses, a Ferrari and a Gulfstream IV.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by H5N1

so innovation is out of bounds? ****. good thing that lamar hunt didn't think so. the nfl was stale and staunch when the afl was established. in comes hunt and his merry gang of 'chuck it up' afl teams, and it forced the nfl to adapt.

but, let's not let innovation have ANY part of our past time. **** it... innovation is baaaaad. real bad. hell, why do any of us use technology? after all, we were better off before the innovations of the industrial revolution.

There's a big difference between innovation and evolution of the game and getting butthurt because you can't cheat. A-11 changes the entire aspect of the game to the point that it's not traditional football anymore. This isn't some little rule change enacted for the safety of the game. If it were so innovative, then why has it been analyzed and flat out rejected by all established football organizations?

Go get innovative on your tax return and see how much the IRS commends you on your breakthrough adaptations...

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

There's a big difference between innovation and evolution of the game and getting butthurt because you can't cheat. A-11 changes the entire aspect of the game to the point that it's not traditional football anymore. This isn't some little rule change enacted for the safety of the game. If it were so innovative, then why has it been analyzed and flat out rejected by all established football organizations?

Go get innovative on your tax return and see how much the IRS commends you on your breakthrough adaptations...

ya know, the funny thing is that, at one point, the forward pass was as 'out of left field' as the A-11 offense. where would we be without the forward pass?

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

There's a big difference between innovation and evolution of the game and getting butthurt because you can't cheat. A-11 changes the entire aspect of the game to the point that it's not traditional football anymore. This isn't some little rule change enacted for the safety of the game. If it were so innovative, then why has it been analyzed and flat out rejected by all established football organizations?

Go get innovative on your tax return and see how much the IRS commends you on your breakthrough adaptations...

If you do it properly, they don't do a damn thing. Oh it changes the aspect of the game. Who cares? If there are kids in it who aren't getting a shot at colleges as a result of playing in it, they'll either transfer or they weren't good enough athletes to make it at the next level anyway.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Future members of Congress or Hedge Fund Managers/Wall Street Financiers.

Hell, if these kids are taught how to take advantage of loopholes and screw over things like honor and respect, they'll end up with 11 million dollar end of year bonuses, a Ferrari and a Gulfstream IV.

Nice. Other people exploit loopholes, so why not teach these kids to do so. The world is full of dickhole cheaters, so why not teach these kids the practice early on so they'll get rich someday cheating other cheaters out of millions.

Bunch of greedy cheating pricks who think it's OK because somebody somewhere got away with it.

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Nice. Other people exploit loopholes, so why not teach these kids to do so. The world is full of dickhole cheaters, so why not teach these kids the practice early on so they'll get rich someday cheating other cheaters out of millions.

Bunch of greedy cheating pricks who think it's OK because somebody somewhere got away with it.

A LOOPHOLE IS NOT CHEATING!!!! PERIOD!!!


And you know what, if they're gonna be people like that, they're not gonna be swung one way or the other by a fricking offense they ran in high school. You are so wrong on this issue it's not even close.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by H5N1

ya know, the funny thing is that, at one point, the forward pass was as 'out of left field' as the A-11 offense. where would we be without the forward pass?

So you're comparing the evolution of the forward pass to the A-11 offense? Seriously?

The forward pass has always been part of the game. It wasn't used as much in the beginning, but it was still an integrated part of the game. There were never any rules in place prohibiting the forward pass. Compare your analogy for a second here....

The A-11 formation was illegal at one time. Then an exception was created specifically for scrimmage kicks, and only at the high school level. Not to allow for an offensive formation like A-11, but to allow different formations specifically for scrimmage kicks. And still the only way it was allowed is if the players on the field were wearing numbers normally reserved for receivers(an accepted football practice on it's own). In order to take advantage of A-11, teams have to give all the players jersey numbers reserved for receivers when they aren't really receivers, and they have to line up in a scrimmage kick formation, when they're not doing a scrimmage kick.

The forward pass has always been legal. It required no exceptions to be added before you could forward pass. A forward pass has always been intended for offensive formations. A forward pass is not dependent on specific jersey numbers.

Do you see any difference in innovation such as the forward pass, and BS like A-11?

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

So you're comparing the evolution of the forward pass to the A-11 offense? Seriously?

The forward pass has always been part of the game. It wasn't used as much in the beginning, but it was still an integrated part of the game. There were never any rules in place prohibiting the forward pass. Compare your analogy for a second here....

The A-11 formation was illegal at one time. Then an exception was created specifically for scrimmage kicks, and only at the high school level. Not to allow for an offensive formation like A-11, but to allow different formations specifically for scrimmage kicks. And still the only way it was allowed is if the players on the field were wearing numbers normally reserved for receivers(an accepted football practice on it's own). In order to take advantage of A-11, teams have to give all the players jersey numbers reserved for receivers when they aren't really receivers, and they have to line up in a scrimmage kick formation, when they're not doing a scrimmage kick.

The forward pass has always been legal. It required no exceptions to be added before you could forward pass. A forward pass has always been intended for offensive formations. A forward pass is not dependent on specific jersey numbers.

Do you see any difference in innovation such as the forward pass, and BS like A-11?

What they both had in common was excessively conservative morons trying to convince us they were bad ideas.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

A-11 is just stupid anyway. Good for them. A-11 makes a joke out of football by using silly jersey number exceptions. That isn't football. If you can't play the game the way it was intended and you have to resort to sneaky pass-eligible exceptions, then maybe you shouldn't be playing.

"The way it was intended" is a complete straw man. The way football was originally intended was basically rugby. Then, some coach exploited a "loophole" in the rules by telling his team to execute a forward pass.

That argument is a bunch of revisionist history.

[King_Chief_Fan]

holy hand grenades, we are getting bent out of shape about high school football.....the end is near.

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

holy hand grenades, we are getting bent out of shape about high school football.....the end is near.

No... there's just nothing else to do. There are only so many Grey's Anatomy re-runs to watch on the internet, you know...

[kcfanXIII]

i wonder if thigpen could run this...

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Nice. Other people exploit loopholes, so why not teach these kids to do so. The world is full of dickhole cheaters, so why not teach these kids the practice early on so they'll get rich someday cheating other cheaters out of millions.

Bunch of greedy cheating pricks who think it's OK because somebody somewhere got away with it.

Actually, I was being facetious. And yes, using a loophole is cheating. A loophole is finding a way through a set of rules and regulations by circumventing the original purpose of those rules and regulations by taking a document or bill or law or whathaveyou to the extreme literal sense and do something that said document was trying to prevent by making sure that you've worked around the wording of the document to do something/achieve a result - a result that the original document, law, bill, regulation, etc. meant to block, prevent, etc.

It's why there are so many cocksucking, dickhead lawyers out there and why there are so many greedy, cocksucking, dickhead people in power employing those cocksucking lawyers. They are trying to get around laws and such in order to elevate themselves, either statuswise, monetarily or the like. A loophole is a cheat. It's a underhanded, scummy find a way around the law cheat. Classic case would be the Enron loophole that allowed afterhours, unregulated trading of commoditites and the like, and is directly responsible for the giant shit stain that is our current economic situation.

Personally, I don't know what the problem is with this A-11 thing though. I'd just put 11 guys in the box on defense and blitz every single time. After the fifth quarterback was sitting on the side line in a puddle of his own urine and blood, they'd probably start keeping a few guys back for protection purposes.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Unleash_the_Phury

What they both had in common was excessively conservative morons trying to convince us they were bad ideas.

Your only validation for the A-11 is "It's not cheating it's a loophole. Other people take advantage of loopholes."

Well, you're a fool. It's been ruled illegal on all levels of football except the high school level. And the majority of state high schools have already made it illegal, or are trying to do so, as evidenced by this very article.

This quote makes it very clear:

"They are taking a rule book exception for a scrimmage kick and putting it [in] place every down of the game and that is not the intent of the rule and it is outside the spirit of the rule code and it is an attempt to deceive and attempts to deceive are unsporting acts."

And like they said, if you want to make a new game in a new league that allows for ridiculous formations like A-11, then go create your own league and play away. But it's not football.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

And like they said, if you want to make a new game in a new league that allows for ridiculous formations like A-11, then go create your own league and play away. But it's not football.

Absolutely. Lamar Hunt innovated in this manner. The A-11 folks can do the same.