Can't stop an offense? Make it illegal!

[modocsot]

A-11 Offense Now Has to Play Defense

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=911196

Kurt Bryan, the football coach at Piedmont (Calif.) High School, has heard the wail of protests against his A-11 offense. Deceiving, skirting the rules, unsportsmanlike. It has been labeled gimmicky and it has its enemies.

That's why he can only imagine that the worst is in store for his and Steve Humphries' offense in the next week.

The A-11 offense, a super-sized spread with eligible receivers popping up all over the field, has been banned by some high school state associations. Bryan is worried the National Federation of State High School Associations is going to adopt rule changes for 2009 that will ruin the scheme in the states where it is used.

The football rules committee of the NHFS met Jan. 24-26 in Indianapolis and Bryan said the committee discussed proposals that would effectively take the fledgling A-11 off the chalkboard.

Brad Garrett, the assistant executive director of the Oregon Activities Association and vice chairman of the NFHS Rules Football Committee, said rules committee members cannot talk about proposed rule changes or how they voted.

The rules committee makes recommendations to the NFHS national governing board, which votes whether to accept recommendations, but the board typically passes what it is presented by the rules committee. The board is expected to release rule changes for 2009 in the next week.

One of the proposals the committee discussed, which would curtail the A-11, was to take away an exception to rule 7-2-5b that allows players with jersey numbers 1-49 and 80-99 to be down linemen, and eligible pass receivers, in a scrimmage kick formation.

The A-11 (A11Offense.com) creators used that exception to have all of their players wear numbers 1-49 or 80-99, numbers reserved for receivers, and said if the numbering is allowed for scrimmage kicks it should be allowed for all offensive plays. Referees working A-11 games, Bryan said, have not thrown flags for ineligible receivers and allowed the offense to proceed throughout the game.

Bryan and Humphries, who is Piedmont's director of football operations, said the National Federation might institute rules to block the use of the A-11 by member schools, but that is not going to make the offense go away.

"There is a demonstrative benefit of using the A-11 offense, and there is room in America for more than one style of football," Bryan said. "There is a loud, ugly minority out there that is against this offense.

"This is standing up for the little guy in football, the schools without the numbers of kids or the big linemen. There is a huge disconnect between the players on the ground, the kids that play in this offense and the National Federation."

Bryan said if the National Federation adopts rules curtailing the use of the A-11 among NFHS members, then there will be a movement to create a federation for schools that want to use the A-11.

"What is ridiculous is there already are A-11 teams playing non-A-11 teams without incident," Bryan said. "We are playing within the rules."

Bryan said as far as he knows the opponents of the A-11 offense have not been to a game to watch the offense and examine it closely.

In the A-11, players do not wear the traditional jersey numbers for linemen: they use 1-49, and 80 through 99, which is legal. This means that all 11 players on offense can be eligible for a pass.

In essence, the offense creates an island for 11 players, spreading the defense out, and looking for one-on-one matchups.

If a player gets set on the line, and another player lines up outside that player, the inside player is ineligible to catch a pass. What the A-11 can do is have offensive players wait until the final seconds of the play clock and then take positions on the line making it difficult for the defense to know, until the last moment, which receivers are eligible.

The North Carolina High School Athletic Association declared the A-11 offense was an "unsporting act" and banned its members from using the offense.

Officials from state associations who say their members cannot use the offense said the A-11 uses a loophole in the rules to deceive opponents. That loophole could get closed in the next week.

"The rule was written for a scrimmage kick exception, the number requirement, to aid in terms of long snappers and blocking situations," said Mark Dreibelbis, the supervisor of officials for the North Carolina High School Athletic Association. "They are taking a rule book exception for a scrimmage kick and putting it [in] place every down of the game and that is not the intent of the rule and it is outside the spirit of the rule code and it is an attempt to deceive and attempts to deceive are unsporting acts."

Dr. Ralph Swearngin, the executive director of the Georgia High School Association, warned schools in Georgia during the 2008 season about using the A-11 because he said it broke National Federation rules.

On its Web site, the GHSA's warning said any player in a game in a scrimmage kick situation (punt, field goal, extra point) wearing jerseys 1-49 to 80-99 still "must assume an initial position on his line of scrimmage between the ends and he remains an ineligible forward-pass receiver during the down."

Bryan said it is not his intent to try and lead schools to break away from the National Federation. He has proposed a sub-federation for schools that want to play A-11 football.

"Allowing teams the right to use A-11 football if they want to is extremely viable," Bryan said. "And there are plenty of people who will be ready to help set that up so everybody wins."

[Demonpenz]

Can't you just wear two jerseys and annouce which jerseys you were wearing if you could catch the ball. That is what our high school team did

[Pitt Gorilla]

I think they should change/clarify the rule. The kicking provision obviously wasn't meant to be used as an entire offense. If people want to have an A-11 type offense, they could lobby to do away with the rules that prevent it as an offense in the first place.

[Basileus777]

It's only possible through a loophole in a rule. It should be banned.

[Fish]

A-11 is just stupid anyway. Good for them. A-11 makes a joke out of football by using silly jersey number exceptions. That isn't football. If you can't play the game the way it was intended and you have to resort to sneaky pass-eligible exceptions, then maybe you shouldn't be playing.

[penchief]

I heard on Sirius the other day how back in the day Marv Levy tried to get the commissioner to rule that Cincinnatti's offense was illegal the morning before their AFC playoff game. The commissioner didn't, the Bengals won and went on to the Super Bowl. The next season the Bills adopted the same offense and it became known as the K-Gun which they used so successfully for so long.

I thought that was an interesting tidbit of NFL lore.

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

A-11 is just stupid anyway. Good for them. A-11 makes a joke out of football by using silly jersey number exceptions. That isn't football. If you can't play the game the way it was intended and you have to resort to sneaky pass-eligible exceptions, then maybe you shouldn't be playing.

It's high school football. There aren't untold millions riding on these games. Let the kids play; if it's a loophole, it's not illegal. It's thinking outside the box. So you can either let the high school kids in Piedmont California have a little fun, or you can try and thought-police a game.

Get over yourselves.

[jidar]

it's a rule loophole and already banned in both college and the pros. No reason to have it really and having kids play in it does them a disservice.

[jidar]

Originally Posted by Unleash_the_Phury

It's high school football. There aren't untold millions riding on these games. Let the kids play; if it's a loophole, it's not illegal. It's thinking outside the box. So you can either let the high school kids in Piedmont California have a little fun, or you can try and thought-police a game.

Get over yourselves.

You make a good point, but I think the kids can have fun by playing straight up football as well and there are more benefits do doing so.

[Ebolapox]

the no fun league strikes again....

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by jidar

You make a good point, but I think the kids can have fun by playing straight up football as well and there are more benefits do doing so.

Oh I agree. But the point of the A11 was to give this small school with no real line talent a fighting chance. It's no fun running a normal offense, failing miserably, and then having the other team run up the score. If they have the physical ability to field a team with a legitimate o-line, they should probably do it. But it doesn't make sense to criminalize an idea designed to prevent a team from being used as a league doormat.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Unleash_the_Phury

It's high school football. There aren't untold millions riding on these games. Let the kids play; if it's a loophole, it's not illegal. It's thinking outside the box. So you can either let the high school kids in Piedmont California have a little fun, or you can try and thought-police a game.

Get over yourselves.

Yeah... great lesson for the youngsters. If you can't win by playing within the established rules, then find a loophole and do what you want anyway, regardless of things like tradition, honor, and respect for the game. Yeah, they're just high schoolers... let em cheat and have fun....

The rule is based on an exception they made specifically for scrimmage kicks. Not any kind of formation intended for offense. Scrimmage kicks.

Teaching kids that it's OK to take advantage of loopholes in the rules is bad no matter how you try to justify it.

[jidar]

Originally Posted by Unleash_the_Phury

Oh I agree. But the point of the A11 was to give this small school with no real line talent a fighting chance. It's no fun running a normal offense, failing miserably, and then having the other team run up the score. If they have the physical ability to field a team with a legitimate o-line, they should probably do it. But it doesn't make sense to criminalize an idea designed to prevent a team from being used as a league doormat.

That's true too. Yeah I dunno what to do. Glad I don't have to be the one to decide

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Yeah... great lesson for the youngsters. If you can't win by playing within the established rules, then find a loophole and do what you want anyway, regardless of things like tradition, honor, and respect for the game. Yeah, they're just high schoolers... let em cheat and have fun....

The rule is based on an exception they made specifically for scrimmage kicks. Not any kind of formation intended for offense. Scrimmage kicks.

Teaching kids that it's OK to take advantage of loopholes in the rules is bad no matter how you try to justify it.

so innovation is out of bounds? ****. good thing that lamar hunt didn't think so. the nfl was stale and staunch when the afl was established. in comes hunt and his merry gang of 'chuck it up' afl teams, and it forced the nfl to adapt.

but, let's not let innovation have ANY part of our past time. **** it... innovation is baaaaad. real bad. hell, why do any of us use technology? after all, we were better off before the innovations of the industrial revolution.

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Yeah... great lesson for the youngsters. If you can't win by playing within the established rules, then find a loophole and do what you want anyway, regardless of things like tradition, honor, and respect for the game. Yeah, they're just high schoolers... let em cheat and have fun....

The rule is based on an exception they made specifically for scrimmage kicks. Not any kind of formation intended for offense. Scrimmage kicks.

Teaching kids that it's OK to take advantage of loopholes in the rules is bad no matter how you try to justify it.

Why? Is it because nobody in the real world ever sees a loophole and exploits it???

Tradition's over-rated; it used to be the game was played with no facemasks and leather helmets.

And I fail to see how it lacks honour; the system doesn't rely on blindside chop blocks to the knees of pass rushers; it requires the defence to run like a fifty-cent piece defence (I'm assuming that's what would come after the quarter)