A case for Tyler Thigpen

[MMXcalibur]

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/08/27/a-ca...tyler-thigpen/

Thursday, August 27 2009
Official Blog of the National Football League

Home
« Ryan making all the right moves with Jets
Kendall Simmons preparing for a comeback »
Jason La Canfora
A case for Tyler Thigpen
Posted: August 27th, 2009 | Jason La Canfora | Tags: Baltimore Ravens, Ben Roethlisberger, Brodie Croyle, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Joe Flacco, Kansas City Chiefs, Matt Cassel, Matt Ryan, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, trades, Tyler Thigpen, Wildcat

I have a question for you guys: Name a first-year starting quarterback who accounted for more touchdowns than Super Bowl-winning veteran Ben Roethlisberger or standout rookies Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan last season? Here’s another one: Of all the players who ran the ball at least 50 times last season, who led the NFL in yards per carry?

OK, so the title of this blog makes the answer pretty much a dead giveaway. I think we all know who I’m talking about here (for the record, he averaged 6.2 yards per carry on 62 rushes). But I’m going to say it (read: type it): I like Tyler Thigpen. I’m not afraid to admit it, and I know some savvy NFL scouts/executives who value him, too.

I like Thigpen’s guts and competitiveness. I love his athleticism. I think he’s a playmaker who’s still quite raw (a 25-year-old who became a starter for a lame-duck staff last season, out of Coastal Carolina of all places) and has some warts but a ton of upside. He’s a kid who flashed some real talent, yet was surrounded by an Amy Winehouse-thin roster in Kansas City last season (having no defense and no running game did him no favors).

And it’s clear that the new Chiefs regime prefers Matt Cassel and Brodie Croyle to him — because Thigpen is being shopped — but if I’m running the average NFL team (which means I probably have 1.5 capable QBs on my roster, and, yeah I’m going to use a lot of parenthesis in this post), I’m making a play for this kid, even if it costs me more than a fifth-round draft pick (the current asking price).

So, let’s go back to the beginning here, a very good place to start.

Thigpen was thrust into duty after the Chiefs’ other quarterbacks went down with season-ending injuries. He ended up accounting for 22 touchdowns (18 passing, three rushing and one receiving) in just 11 starts for a 2-14 team that had some deep flaws. Roethlisberger, a $100 million QB, won a Super Bowl with help from the game’s best defense and accounted for 19 TDs (17 passing, two rushing) in 16 starts.

So Thigpen, as a second-year pro with no prior experience and a last-place roster around him, threw for 2,608 yards and 18 TDs with 12 interceptions in the first 11 starts of his career. And Roethlisberger, already fully polished and with a Super Bowl-quality roster around him, threw for 3,301 yards and 17 TDs with 15 interceptions in 16 games. Hmm, interesting. And Roethlisberger had as many turnovers as Thigpen did scores.

OK. In no way am I trying to say Thigpen is remotely the QB and playmaker than Big Ben is (nor could anyone expect him to be), but tell me this kid might not be worth a shot at being better than most teams’ current backup passer. (Personally, I think he’s a heck of a lot better than Croyle, for one, but I’m obviously not running any NFL teams). Hang with me here.

Ryan, the third overall pick in the 2008 draft, won the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year award, had the league’s best running game and a stout Falcons defense behind him, and he accounted for 17 total TDs in 16 starts. Flacco also was a first-round pick in 2008, started 16 games for a Ravens team with the league’s second-best defense and a robust running attack, and he accounted for 16 total TDs.

Let’s take it a little deeper. Well, Jason, you dope, the Chiefs stunk and Thigpen just put up a bunch of meaningless numbers while chasing teams in the second half of games, right?

Not so fast. The Chiefs either led entering the fourth quarter, led in the fourth quarter or were tied entering the fourth quarter in seven of Thigpen’s final 10 games. If anything, questionable play-calling, a horrid running game and an atrocious defense conspired against the young QB.

Overall, could Thigpen be better in the fourth quarter? Sure, he had a 62.0 rating and completed just 50 percent of his passes (four fourth-quarter TDs to four fourth-quarter interceptions isn’t that bad, though). This was a kid from a small school thrust into emergency starts with little coaching, and as we know, inexperienced passers tend to have issues late in games. Thigpen also was sacked 11 times on just 123 fourth-quarter pass attempts, so a suspect offensive line and lack of any sort of competent defense didn’t make things any easier on him.

Well, what about Thigpen completing just 55 percent of his passes and throwing 12 interceptions in just 14 games? Neither is ideal, no doubt. But let’s look at his offensive weapons. Dwayne Bowe and Devard Darling were his starting receivers. It wasn’t exactly the sure-hands crew. Besides having perennial Pro Bowl TE Tony Gonzalez, this kid was on his own.

As I said, Thigpen is raw and has some flaws, so coach him up (he was the first quarterback in Coastal Carolina history for goodness sake, with the program starting in 2003) and help him with film study and fundamentals. There is plenty to work with there.

This kid is incredibly fast — on his runs, he was almost never tackled by someone in the front seven. You can’t tell me he’s not one of the 64 best QBs out there, and given his skills and speed, he definitely could be someone who could help in the Wildcat. At 6-foot-1 and 224 pounds, Thigpen can take a hit.

As for the interceptions, that’s pretty common with young QBs. And the first came in a mop-up role in his first appearance of 2008, and three more came in his first NFL start, against the eventual NFC South champion Falcons, when you’d expect him to be nervous.

In the final 10 games, all starts, Thigpen threw 16 touchdown passes to eight interceptions. Not too shabby. And that’s far beyond anything the first-round bonus babies (JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn) from Thigpen’s draft year (2007) have accomplished.

Well, sure, those are decent numbers, but come on, the dude was in a shotgun most of the time and not a traditional offense?

Yep, the Chiefs, in desperation, got a bit gimmicky last season and spread things out. But a lot of teams are going more that route, and you guys tell me that Tom Brady (and last year, Cassel) and Flacco and Roethlisberger aren’t back there quite a bit, too.

Wow, I never thought I’d write this much about Tyler Thigpen, but, alas, it has happened. But how can you not like the kid? Never invited to the combine, seventh-round pick by the Vikings, claimed off waivers by the Chiefs in September 2007, tore his medial collateral ligament that rookie season and then ended up starting 11 games the next year when no one expected it, and, best as I can tell, did some pretty nice stuff.

And now, someone, if they’re smart, will meet the Chiefs’ price and trade for Thigpen. Sure, a third- or fourth-round pick is considerable, but when you look at what the kid has done, how valuable his position is and how few quality alternatives exist (let alone talented 25-year-olds), to me, a fourth-round pick is surely worth the shot.

The Jaguars have expressed the most interest to this point, and that’s one of several teams with a significant need for a backup QB. The Bills, Bears, Packers and Saints also have been closely monitoring the QB market. And people I talk to around the league don’t discount the Patriots making a move for a QB, too — particularly one who could provide a Wildcat element. The Ravens seriously considered trading for Thigpen before ultimately opting to sign Cleo Lemon a little while back, league sources said.

Some team will come away with a solid prospect in Thigpen, and frankly, I’m not quite sure why the Chiefs didn’t give him more of a look before locking in on Cassel.

Thigpen overload lately.

[Bane]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

None of that shit matters because he's a former Patriot. A product the Great Piolichick. A God among men from New England.

New England; where micro-brews flow through the rivers and streams so fresh and clean, you can dip your bottle in and taste Ambrosia. Where the sewers smell like a Lilly patch, and the turds transform in to chocolate bars as the piss becomes lemonade!
Where $100.00 bills grow from every chloroform-based vegetation as Prime Rib is hand delivered to your front door by Playboy Bunnies!
And where the Greatest Quarterbacks you'll ever be lucky enough to have pawned-off on you, you worthless, ****ing non-New England-ite, shall NEVER be questioned, only Praised and Worshiped.

You infidel.

HOLY SHIT!

[sedated]

Let me ask you this - who would you rather have as your RB, if you could draft either one to an expansion team - Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

To me, a franchise QB is one who is the cornerstone of his team. He plays at a very high level for a significant period of time, elevating the play of those who surround him.

Furthermore, he is able to put the team on his shoulders and win a game, and he's able to do this on the biggest stage.

Based on the above, it's pretty easy to see the distinction between a Dilfer and a Roethlisberger. A Marino and a Green.

You'd think that.

I'm done.

[sedated]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

To me, a franchise QB is one who is the cornerstone of his team. He plays at a very high level for a significant period of time, elevating the play of those who surround him.

Furthermore, he is able to put the team on his shoulders and win a game, and he's able to do this on the biggest stage.

Based on the above, it's pretty easy to see the distinction between a Dilfer and a Roethlisberger. A Marino and a Green.

its still apples and oranges IMO - Roth has only been playing for, what, 4 years? All the other QBs have had an entire career of ups and down to judge by.

And Roth is being judged PURELY on the rings, nothing else. "He has rings", "He led them on that one drive in the SB". (Nevermind the dominant team that carried him into that position)

Hey, I put Kurt Warner in the category of "surrounded by talent, nothing special", before he did what he did in Arizona last year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by sedated

its still apples and oranges IMO - Roth has only been playing for, what, 4 years? All the other QBs have had an entire career of ups and down to judge by.

And Roth is being judged PURELY on the rings, nothing else. "He has rings", "He led them on that one drive in the SB". (Nevermind the dominant team that carried him into that position)

Hey, I put Kurt Warner in the category of "surrounded by talent, nothing special", before he did what he did in Arizona last year.

If that doesn't explain what a ****ing reerun you are, nothing will.

The guy was only a SBMVP before getting to Arizona...

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by sedated

And Roth is being judged PURELY on the rings, nothing else. "He has rings", "He led them on that one drive in the SB". (Nevermind the dominant team that carried him into that position)

So anyone could have done it? Roethlisberger was carried?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by sedated

take away the super bowls and where do his stats rank?

Smoke more crack

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by sedated

Let me ask you this - who would you rather have as your RB, if you could draft either one to an expansion team - Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith?

Emmitt Smith, hands down.

[Titty Meat]

So Rothlisberger (sp?) wins 15 games as a rookie and Thigpen wins 1. Yet Rothlisberger sucks and Thigpen is good?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Smoke more crack

He's a Beaker; it's all about the "Honk For Hemp" with those ****ing hippies.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by billay

So Rothlisberger (sp?) wins 15 games as a rookie and Thigpen wins 1. Yet Rothlisberger sucks and Thigpen is good?

Welcome to Chiefs Nation!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You know why?

All I've been told for the past 3 months is how important his experience is, and how sitting for years behind Brady makes him a can't miss veteran - how it made so much more sense to get him instead of drafting a young QB.

"Cassel can handle it, we'd ruin a young QB."

So the people are getting what they asked for.

Dude, you're exaggerating. Few people on CP that I've seen of say he's a "can't miss veteran." Most people like him and like his potential, but know that he's got a lot to prove. But is he further along in his progression than Sanchez? How can you claim otherwise? You know he has everything between the ears and that's a huge advantage over a guy like Sanchez or Stafford, who you have no idea what to expect. Who knows if they'll have the work ethic to get better when you throw gobs of money and publicity in their direction.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Who gives a ****?

He has 10 years left to play.

Christ, this fanbase is ****ed. You'd rather have the 4,000 yard passer who can't win a playoff game than the guy who threw for 3,000 and has multiple rings.

No, the point is that if you can't see that Super Bowls are generally run with balanced teams, then there is something wrong with you. I think Big Ben is one of the best QBs in the NFL. But there is NO WAY he could carry the 2003 Chiefs to the Super Bowl. How many playoff games could Big Ben win where the defense doesn't force A SINGLE PUNT?

Big Ben has had a top 5 defense almost every year he's played. That includes a top 5 defense in scoring as well as forcing turnovers. How can you be so blind to realize that a top 5 defense makes a QB's job 100 times easier?

To answer your question, of course I'd rather have a 3,000 yard passer because that implies that you have a dominant defense that allows you to win games. But stop pretending that Big Ben can win on a 3,000 yard season on a bottom 5 defense. For christ sake, his defense gave up 13.9 points per game. That's 2 TDs less per game than the Chiefs gave up. Do you realize that in 2003, there wasn't one single game where the Chiefs scored less than 13.9 points?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Dude, you're exaggerating. Few people on CP that I've seen of say he's a "can't miss veteran." Most people like him and like his potential, but know that he's got a lot to prove. But is he further along in his progression than Sanchez? How can you claim otherwise? You know he has everything between the ears and that's a huge advantage over a guy like Sanchez or Stafford, who you have no idea what to expect. Who knows if they'll have the work ethic to get better when you throw gobs of money and publicity in their direction.

"I'm Chiefzilla, and I want assurances".


I know exactly what to expect:

Cassel will look epic this year compared to so many floundering Chiefs QB's-past, while Sanchez looks less polished and struggles.

Here's the bummer; Sanchez matches or surpasses Cassel's numbers while appearing to struggle. You see, Cassel's going to have to hop and skip down to the end zone while Sanchez, when faced with 3rd down conversions of the long nature, is going to do EXACTLY the kind of shit you saw with the 50-yard bomb and the precisely placed long-yarder to Washington against the Ravens.

Oh, other bummer:

Two years from now when Cassel is still hopping and skipping, Sanchez has polished his long game to a science while making those short passes in tight coverage look like child's play.

Question asked, question answered. On with the show.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

"I'm Chiefzilla, and I want assurances".


I know exactly what to expect:

Cassel will look epic this year compared to so many floundering Chiefs QB's-past, while Sanchez looks less polished and struggles.

Here's the bummer; Sanchez matches or surpasses Cassel's numbers while appearing to struggle. You see, Cassel's going to have to hop and skip down to the end zone while Sanchez, when faced with 3rd down conversions of the long nature, is going to do EXACTLY the kind of shit you saw with the 50-yard bomb and the precisely placed long-yarder to Washington against the Ravens.

Oh, other bummer:

Two years from now when Cassel is still hopping and skipping, Sanchez has polished his long game to a science while making those short passes in tight coverage look like child's play.

Question asked, question answered. On with the show.

Here's another scenario. As most scouts predicted, Sanchez was underprepared for the NFL. Like most first-year rookie QBs thrown immediately into the starting position, he struggles as he learns to read complex blitz packages (which he has not yet seen in the preseason).

After the third game, the boo birds come out. And in New York, it's not just the fans, it's the media, the national TV coverage, everything. His face is plastered on every NY newspaper and he's surrounded by cameras that insult him for not being a star right away. How do you respond to that? In Leaf's case, you get angry and you stop listening to your coaches. In Harrington's case, your confidence gets rattled and you never recover. Or in Matt Leinart's case, you start living off your unearned money and don't commit to the game as you should. Or in Jamarcus Russel's case, you learn that the work ethic was never there. Or in Leftwich and Alex Smith's case, you learn that their skills don't translate on the NFL level.

These are things that New York will learn in a hurry about their QB.