Chiefs The sad thing is this line could be just as bad next year - Page 4

B_Ambuehl · 11-07-2009, 11:50 AM

It really needs 4 new starters. Waters is close to being done. He's about where Shields was his last year. Just watched a replay of the SD game and he made their practice squad reject d-line look like world beaters. Goff is done. Niswanger has nothing. O-lines are usually 3 year rebuilding projects and we haven't even started on year 1. Clark obviously won't pay anybody who can really come in here and play football. He had plenty of opportunities to pick up a viable center and right tackle and passed on all of them. You can draft a bunch of rookies, but it takes them 2-3 years to get going (see Jacksonville). Unfortunately, it's looking like this line will be the death of Todd Haley.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 11-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

Why not? Not arguing with you. Just thinking the man has some talent but might have lost a step limiting his OG effectiveness (pulling, etc.). Is it really out of the question to try him at center next year? He has already responded well to a more major position change.

First, he's on his last leg as is.

Second, he's already getting abused by interior linemen, and personally, I don't think he's be an upgrade at all to what we have.

If anything, Wade Smith should be playing center until we draft one.

Face it folks, the guy is done. The decline over the past 3 years is obvious to anyone objective enough to actually see it.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-07-2009, 07:22 PM

It's hard to imagine they can be as bad, because it's hard to imagine they could be much worse.

We'll be better at LT. Branden Albert continues to learn to play at a new weight in a new scheme. And I can't imagine a scenario where they don't bring in at least 2-3 guys they think could compete for a starting position at Guard, Center, or Right Tackle--that's not hard to do if you use some 2nd or 3rd round picks. Given the lack of resources, the CHiefs definitely won't build an all-world o-line. But I don't see how they couldn't improve quite a bit just by actually trying to bring some guys in.

Coogs · 11-07-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It's hard to imagine they can be as bad, because it's hard to imagine they could be much worse.

We'll be better at LT. Branden Albert continues to learn to play at a new weight in a new scheme. And I can't imagine a scenario where they don't bring in at least 2-3 guys they think could compete for a starting position at Guard, Center, or Right Tackle--that's not hard to do if you use some 2nd or 3rd round picks. Given the lack of resources, the CHiefs definitely won't build an all-world o-line. But I don't see how they couldn't improve quite a bit just by actually trying to bring some guys in.

Although money talks, I have a hard time imagining quality guys even getting into Arrowhead for an interview before they are signed elsewhere right now. Draft looks like the best route to see any gains on the O-line.

And we don't really have to do that with our first two picks either, as there should be some solid players available in the late 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds that could really make this line pretty good... in 2011.

Then draft a WR and RB in that draft, and we should be good to go.

TrickyNicky · 11-07-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

Although money talks, I have a hard time imagining quality guys even getting into Arrowhead for an interview before they are signed elsewhere right now. Draft looks like the best route to see any gains on the O-line.

And we don't really have to do that with our first two picks either, as there should be some solid players available in the late 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds that could really make this line pretty good... in 2011.

Then draft a WR and RB in that draft, and we should be good to go.

Assuming Cassel puts it together. Otherwise we're back at square one.

Chiefs=Champions · 11-07-2009, 07:43 PM

I dont remember Shields being as bad as Waters is this year...

Mecca · 11-07-2009, 07:46 PM

I personally think all this weight loss stuff killed some of these guys.

There is a such thing as being to light and having the lightest OL in the league is not something I would want.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-07-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

It was about Jared Allen keeping his nose clean and only that. It wasn't about paying him. Carl Peterson paid his boys every single time their contract came up.

The Falcons line was ****ing terrible. Forney played like shit in his last year in Atlanta and has continued to play like shit since, which is why SD let him go. Wayne Gandy was terrible. Todd Weiner sucked at RT. They replaced their entire right side of the line as well as their LT and did it with success in ONE season.

I know you have me on ignore, but for everybody else.

The main reason Allen was signed had everything to do with money and respect. CP is a douche bag and he thought it would be cool to lowball the hell out of Jared Allen, not return his agent's calls, and then publicly insult him and think that Allen would eventually cave in and accept a lower contract. It's the same approach CP took with LJ, except LJ eventually gave in. Lord knows how many free agents CP drove away with the same approach and because of his reputation for such shady tactics (Samari Rolle anyone)?

Anyway, I know the Allen argument is irrelevant. But don't think for a second that he wouldn't be in KC if the GM treated him with at least a hint of respect. Hell, Minnesota signed him to a contract that had some clear behavioral implications, so it's inaccurate to say that the Chiefs couldn't have negotiated some kind of contract with a behavioral out clause.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 11-07-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And I can't imagine a scenario where they don't bring in at least 2-3 guys they think could compete for a starting position at Guard, Center, or Right Tackle--that's not hard to do if you use some 2nd or 3rd round picks.

Yeah, none of us were saying this in January, 2009.

**BigMeatballDave** · 11-07-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

He doesn't need to yell now, the head coach does so much of it yelling is probably ignored.

OMG Could you possibly cry more about Haley yelling?

Hammock Parties · 11-07-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

First, he's on his last leg as is.

Second, he's already getting abused by interior linemen, and personally, I don't think he's be an upgrade at all to what we have.

If anything, Wade Smith should be playing center until we draft one.

Face it folks, the guy is done. The decline over the past 3 years is obvious to anyone objective enough to actually see it.

Check out the GIF'D UP thread. Waters is DONE.

Todd Haley could probably find a guy off the street to replace him...

**CosmicPal** · 11-07-2009, 10:23 PM

I think they'll try to get at least a couple of free agent Offensive Linemen during the off-season. Here's the current Free Agent list for 2010:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

Jahri Evans, New Orleans Saints (26)
Jahri Evans is continuing to grade out as the team’s best run-blocking linemen week after week. The Saints have done a nice job of efficiently running the ball through the middle and on the right side of the line. His continual high level of play and positive, team-first attitude should translate to a high-end offensive guard contract at year’s end. Expect the Saints, who have nothing but positive things to say towards Evans, to richly reward him for his hard work and production.

Logan Mankins, New England Patriots (27)
Logan Mankins has been a very consistent player for the Patriots since he was drafted. That type of consistency is difficult to match, but with free agency inflating the value of offensive guards, the Patriots may end up letting him walk if the price isn’t right. They drafted a couple interior linemen last year and have to use some of their free money to re-sign other players. From what Mankins has said, he wants to stay on this winning franchise, but he could be one of the top players available next offseason.

Marcus McNeill, San Diego Chargers (25)
McNeill isn’t playing at an elite level this year, but is still an above average left tackle. He’s one of the “bigger” names at the left tackle position thanks to his spectacular, hyped rookie season. McNeill has also been undercompensated the last few years playing on his rookie contract as a 2nd round pick, which may incline him to ask for more money than he “deserves.” Any of the Chargers could feasibly be had this offseason and McNeill is no different, but with some of the offensive line woes of the Chargers, McNeill may be one of their top priorities. His long-term neck and back problems could be in the back of the team’s mind as well.

Daryn Colledge, Green Bay Packers (27)
Colledge is no longer viewed as the solution at left tackle in Green Bay. Mid-round TJ Lang has taken over the back-up position there. That alone is enough to make his value take a significant plunge. This will especially be overstated because of his poor performance in the team’s biggest game to date – Monday Night in Minnesota. Still, he’s an above average starting offensive guard and a great pass protector in the interior. Colledge’s value will most likely be highest to the Packers because he’s a great fit for what they do and they know his true value.

Jared Gaither, Baltimore Ravens (23) – Restricted FA
After being taken off the field on a stretcher in New England, Gaither luckily suffered no season or career threatening injury. His return to the field should come in the upcoming weeks. The Ravens have found their bookend tackles, with him and Oher on either side, and even if they can’t settle on a long-term deal with Gaither this offseason, they still have the ability to put a tender on him. At the very least, it would force teams to give up serious compensation for his services. Gaither’s length and athleticism make him an ideal fit at left tackle, but could possibly get him for less coin if they think Oher is capable of playing LT and pay Gaither on the right side.

Winston Justice, Philadelphia Eagles (24)
Justice is finally starting to live up to his expectations as a 2nd round selection. He’s played well in pass protection at right tackle replacing the oft-injured Shawn Andrews. The Eagles are in a tricky situation. Andrews has flashed so much potential and played well when on the field, but has struggled to give them enough snaps without getting injured. Should the team re-sign Justice, they could very well be putting Justice on the bench at the cost of a starter. They already have last year’s free agent acquisition, Stacy Andrews expensively riding the bench.

Kevin Mawae, Tennessee Titans (38)
Mawae has started all six games for the Titans this year, but with his contract expiring, the line may turn to Leroy Harris who will have been groomed for 3 years, sparingly seeing the field. If Mawae is up for another season, he could land on a number of teams, or just re-sign in Tennessee. He still has a little gas left in the tank and it the Titans pass on him, several teams will be lining up for him and accept the leadership he brings to the team.

Chad Clifton, Green Bay Packers (33)
Clifton has suffered a lingering ankle injury this season forcing the Packers to retreat to other options at left tackle. Even when on the field, Clifton hasn’t looked like half the player he was in his prime where he was one of the league’s best pass blockers. The years of injury and battle have worn on Clifton who has lost some of his discipline and been beaten on several occasions. If Clifton isn’t offered another contract in Green Bay, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the franchise’s great blind side protector call it quits.

Mike Gandy, Arizona Cardinals (30)
Gandy has struggled immensely and should definitely be upgraded this offseason. He doesn’t hold much value on the left side and may be asked to move to the right side for the rest of his career. If Arizona can’t find a better replacement, they could potentially try and get one more year out of him, but the Cardinals would be pushing their luck.

Other Notable Free Agents:

Eugene Amano, Tennessee Titans (27)
David Baas, San Francisco 49ers (27)
Khalif Barnes, Oakland Raiders (27)
Alex Barron, St. Louis Rams (26)
Mike Brisiel, Houston Texans (26)
Jeromey Clary, San Diego Chargers (25) – Restricted FA
Nick Cole, Philadelphia Eagles (25)
Willie Colon, Pittsburgh Steelers (26)
Ryan Cook, Minnesota Vikings (26)
Tyson Clabo, Atlanta Falcons (28)
Harvey Dahl, Atlanta Falcons (28)
Cornell Green, Oakland Raiders (33)
Rex Hadnot, Cleveland Browns (27)
Ben Hamilton, Denver Broncos (32)
Justin Hartwig, Pittsburgh Steelers (30)
Stephon Heyer, Washington Redskins (25) – Restricted FA
Richie Incognito, St. Louis Rams (26)
Jon Jansen, Washington Redskins (33)
Charlie Johnson, Indianapolis Colts (25)
Nick Kaczur, New England Patriots (30)
Chris Kuper, Denver Broncos (26)
Deuce Lutui, Arizona Cardinals (26)
Stephen Neal, New England Patriots (32)
Rudy Niswanger, Kansas City Chiefs (26)
Donald Penn, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (26)
Chester Pitts, Houston Texans (30)
Manuel Ramirez, Detroit Lions (26) – Restricted FA
Rob Sims, Seattle Seahawks (25)
Chris Spencer, Seattle Seahawks (27)
Jason Spitz, Green Bay Packers (26)
Adam Terry, Baltimore Ravens (27)
Jeremy Trueblood, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (26)
Bobbie Williams, Cincinnati Bengals (32)
Marshal Yanda, Baltimore Ravens (24)

**BossChief** · 11-07-2009, 10:28 PM

Yanda and Mankins would go a long way toward fixing this offense.

Hammock Parties · 11-07-2009, 10:32 PM

You're going to incite Dane's anger, uncapped year style.

**BigMeatballDave** · 11-07-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

You're going to incite Dane's anger, uncapped year style.

I'm waiting for it to unfold...

Hammock Parties · 11-07-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave

I'm waiting for it to unfold...

Here, I think Dane's out shagging three 18-year old nymphomaniacs while driving 140 mph in his Ferrari, eating caviar and drinking Dom, so allow me:

YOU ****ING MORON!

WHAT PART OF UNCAPPED YEAR DO YOU NOT ****ING UNDERSTAND?

NONE OF THOSE ****ING LINEMEN (THEY ALL SUCK BTW) WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR THE CHIEFS TO SIGN!

YOU ****ING MORON!

11-07-2009, 11:50 AM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The sad thing is this line could be just as bad next year It really needs 4 new starters. Waters is close to being done. He's about where Shields was his last year. Just watched a replay of the SD game and he made their practice squad reject d-line look like world beaters. Goff is done. Niswanger has nothing. O-lines are usually 3 year rebuilding projects and we haven't even started on year 1. Clark obviously won't pay anybody who can really come in here and play football. He had plenty of opportunities to pick up a viable center and right tackle and passed on all of them. You can draft a bunch of rookies, but it takes them 2-3 years to get going (see Jacksonville). Unfortunately, it's looking like this line will be the death of Todd Haley.
Posts: 2,613

11-07-2009, 07:22 PM	#47
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1725503	It's hard to imagine they can be as bad, because it's hard to imagine they could be much worse. We'll be better at LT. Branden Albert continues to learn to play at a new weight in a new scheme. And I can't imagine a scenario where they don't bring in at least 2-3 guys they think could compete for a starting position at Guard, Center, or Right Tackle--that's not hard to do if you use some 2nd or 3rd round picks. Given the lack of resources, the CHiefs definitely won't build an all-world o-line. But I don't see how they couldn't improve quite a bit just by actually trying to bring some guys in.
Posts: 51,650

11-07-2009, 07:43 PM	#50
Chiefs=Champions Training Camp Hero Join Date: Oct 2006 Casino cash: $7974801	I dont remember Shields being as bad as Waters is this year...
Posts: 6,001

11-07-2009, 07:46 PM	#51
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-672950	I personally think all this weight loss stuff killed some of these guys. There is a such thing as being to light and having the lightest OL in the league is not something I would want.
Posts: 115,346

11-07-2009, 10:23 PM	#56
CosmicPal Learn it. Know it. Live it. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Casino cash: $10004900	I think they'll try to get at least a couple of free agent Offensive Linemen during the off-season. Here's the current Free Agent list for 2010: http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html Jahri Evans, New Orleans Saints (26) Jahri Evans is continuing to grade out as the team’s best run-blocking linemen week after week. The Saints have done a nice job of efficiently running the ball through the middle and on the right side of the line. His continual high level of play and positive, team-first attitude should translate to a high-end offensive guard contract at year’s end. Expect the Saints, who have nothing but positive things to say towards Evans, to richly reward him for his hard work and production. Logan Mankins, New England Patriots (27) Logan Mankins has been a very consistent player for the Patriots since he was drafted. That type of consistency is difficult to match, but with free agency inflating the value of offensive guards, the Patriots may end up letting him walk if the price isn’t right. They drafted a couple interior linemen last year and have to use some of their free money to re-sign other players. From what Mankins has said, he wants to stay on this winning franchise, but he could be one of the top players available next offseason. Marcus McNeill, San Diego Chargers (25) McNeill isn’t playing at an elite level this year, but is still an above average left tackle. He’s one of the “bigger” names at the left tackle position thanks to his spectacular, hyped rookie season. McNeill has also been undercompensated the last few years playing on his rookie contract as a 2nd round pick, which may incline him to ask for more money than he “deserves.” Any of the Chargers could feasibly be had this offseason and McNeill is no different, but with some of the offensive line woes of the Chargers, McNeill may be one of their top priorities. His long-term neck and back problems could be in the back of the team’s mind as well. Daryn Colledge, Green Bay Packers (27) Colledge is no longer viewed as the solution at left tackle in Green Bay. Mid-round TJ Lang has taken over the back-up position there. That alone is enough to make his value take a significant plunge. This will especially be overstated because of his poor performance in the team’s biggest game to date – Monday Night in Minnesota. Still, he’s an above average starting offensive guard and a great pass protector in the interior. Colledge’s value will most likely be highest to the Packers because he’s a great fit for what they do and they know his true value. Jared Gaither, Baltimore Ravens (23) – Restricted FA After being taken off the field on a stretcher in New England, Gaither luckily suffered no season or career threatening injury. His return to the field should come in the upcoming weeks. The Ravens have found their bookend tackles, with him and Oher on either side, and even if they can’t settle on a long-term deal with Gaither this offseason, they still have the ability to put a tender on him. At the very least, it would force teams to give up serious compensation for his services. Gaither’s length and athleticism make him an ideal fit at left tackle, but could possibly get him for less coin if they think Oher is capable of playing LT and pay Gaither on the right side. Winston Justice, Philadelphia Eagles (24) Justice is finally starting to live up to his expectations as a 2nd round selection. He’s played well in pass protection at right tackle replacing the oft-injured Shawn Andrews. The Eagles are in a tricky situation. Andrews has flashed so much potential and played well when on the field, but has struggled to give them enough snaps without getting injured. Should the team re-sign Justice, they could very well be putting Justice on the bench at the cost of a starter. They already have last year’s free agent acquisition, Stacy Andrews expensively riding the bench. Kevin Mawae, Tennessee Titans (38) Mawae has started all six games for the Titans this year, but with his contract expiring, the line may turn to Leroy Harris who will have been groomed for 3 years, sparingly seeing the field. If Mawae is up for another season, he could land on a number of teams, or just re-sign in Tennessee. He still has a little gas left in the tank and it the Titans pass on him, several teams will be lining up for him and accept the leadership he brings to the team. Chad Clifton, Green Bay Packers (33) Clifton has suffered a lingering ankle injury this season forcing the Packers to retreat to other options at left tackle. Even when on the field, Clifton hasn’t looked like half the player he was in his prime where he was one of the league’s best pass blockers. The years of injury and battle have worn on Clifton who has lost some of his discipline and been beaten on several occasions. If Clifton isn’t offered another contract in Green Bay, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the franchise’s great blind side protector call it quits. Mike Gandy, Arizona Cardinals (30) Gandy has struggled immensely and should definitely be upgraded this offseason. He doesn’t hold much value on the left side and may be asked to move to the right side for the rest of his career. If Arizona can’t find a better replacement, they could potentially try and get one more year out of him, but the Cardinals would be pushing their luck. Other Notable Free Agents: Eugene Amano, Tennessee Titans (27) David Baas, San Francisco 49ers (27) Khalif Barnes, Oakland Raiders (27) Alex Barron, St. Louis Rams (26) Mike Brisiel, Houston Texans (26) Jeromey Clary, San Diego Chargers (25) – Restricted FA Nick Cole, Philadelphia Eagles (25) Willie Colon, Pittsburgh Steelers (26) Ryan Cook, Minnesota Vikings (26) Tyson Clabo, Atlanta Falcons (28) Harvey Dahl, Atlanta Falcons (28) Cornell Green, Oakland Raiders (33) Rex Hadnot, Cleveland Browns (27) Ben Hamilton, Denver Broncos (32) Justin Hartwig, Pittsburgh Steelers (30) Stephon Heyer, Washington Redskins (25) – Restricted FA Richie Incognito, St. Louis Rams (26) Jon Jansen, Washington Redskins (33) Charlie Johnson, Indianapolis Colts (25) Nick Kaczur, New England Patriots (30) Chris Kuper, Denver Broncos (26) Deuce Lutui, Arizona Cardinals (26) Stephen Neal, New England Patriots (32) Rudy Niswanger, Kansas City Chiefs (26) Donald Penn, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (26) Chester Pitts, Houston Texans (30) Manuel Ramirez, Detroit Lions (26) – Restricted FA Rob Sims, Seattle Seahawks (25) Chris Spencer, Seattle Seahawks (27) Jason Spitz, Green Bay Packers (26) Adam Terry, Baltimore Ravens (27) Jeremy Trueblood, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (26) Bobbie Williams, Cincinnati Bengals (32) Marshal Yanda, Baltimore Ravens (24) __________________ - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - Four blessings upon my fellow planeteers: Older whiskey, younger women, faster horses, and more money.
Posts: 10,840

11-07-2009, 10:28 PM	#57
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1715912	Yanda and Mankins would go a long way toward fixing this offense. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,901

11-07-2009, 10:32 PM	#58
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	You're going to incite Dane's anger, uncapped year style. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,326