Electronics Direct TV Signal Issues - Page 2

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 09:24 AM

I wanted to tap into the Planets expert advice regarding a TV signal from hell. Most of the time my Direct TV signal is great on the satellite, but when it comes to the "local channel's" they fade in and out like the wind. Unfortunately, in my area, Direct TV doesn't offer the locals yet, so I am forced to get the locals off an antenna. I have the B Band converters hooked up, so that's not the issue.

When the Direct TV guy was here about a year ago, he mentioned there was some kind of booster box and also some kind of a "super antenna" if you will. He claimed the antenna was the cats ass and or the king daddy of antennas. Does any of this ring a bell? (Radio Shack?) I am tired of the local CBS, ABC, NBC fading out and not even being able to get the local FOX station at all.

I PMed Direct TV guru Skip, which seems like the logical choice, but I thought there may be others out there who have had the same problems and worked through it.

Any ideas?

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

I don't know of any antenna that works better than the others. The bigger the better though. I think mine was 12 feet long.

Heh, that does sound like the "Lightning Rod 5000."

tsyou606 · 01-16-2010, 10:07 AM

check out directv.com i was looking at it yesterday they have some sort of signal booster for 50 dollars

Stewie · 01-16-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

Ouch, well I'm not moving to the rez, so I'll have live with it. I will just thave to figure out the best choice, given that information.

FOX had an edge before the digital switch, but vanished after that.

Go to the Channel Master site and send them an email. Tell them your situation and see what they say. They have good techs and support. Send them your signal strength info, too.

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsyou606

check out directv.com i was looking at it yesterday they have some sort of signal booster for 50 dollars

I was on the horn with them last Sunday raising all kinds of hell ,when I had to miss the Playoff game on FOX. That's a solid Idea, I just don't know if that would be the ticket in this case?

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie

Go to the Channel Master site and send them an email. Tell them your situation and see what they say. They have good techs and support. Send them your signal strength info, too.

I'm on it, thank you!

Stewie · 01-16-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

I'm on it, thank you!

One more thing. If Channel Master recommends a deep fringe antenna, I'd take that with a grain of salt. Those antennas are for unobstructed signals that are 50+ miles away. In your case you're only 20 miles from the FOX tower. That says to me you have hills (or some other obstruction) between your home and the tower. A deep fringe antenna won't solve that problem.

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie

One more thing. If Channel Master recommends a deep fringe antenna, I'd take that with a grain of salt. Those antennas are for unobstructed signals that are 50+ miles away. In your case you're only 20 miles from the FOX tower. That says to me you have hills (or some other obstruction) between your home and the tower. A deep fringe antenna won't solve that problem.

That may indeed be the case. I was also told at one point in time, that I could point an antenna in their direction (FOX) and get the signal, but then I would not be able to get the other locals. It was almost an either or, because of the direction. I have no idea, he could have been full of poo. I have all but given up on FOX, but I get ticked off when I'm watching one of the other locals, I'm half way through a show, it fades out and the searching for signal message pops up. I need to figure something out before the remote goes through the front of the TV at a high rate of speed.

Jack · 01-16-2010, 10:40 AM

Since I've done antenna design in my career, I'll chime in here.

Skip is pretty close to the solution.

First, antennas; you need to look at the "gain" factor. A lot of spiffy looking antennas sell looks and not performance. Gains on the order of 10 dB on the lower channels (2-13) is average and 20-25 db on the UHF channels are probably all you will find. The higher gain factor means the antennas beamwidth is narrow and that's where a antenna rotator may be needed. Now, the "F" factor. All TV stations now have switched to digital. The old designs for analog antennas are limited by the same physics, however digital modulation is much narrower in beamwidth thus exacerbating the directional issue. Bottom line, look at the transmitter locations and if they are more than 20° difference invest into a rotor.

Amplifiers are often useless. If you live on the fringe, they just amplify noise. Having said that, digital is impervious to noise so there may be some trade off but I would be pessimistic but don't let this prevent you from trying one. Look for the BER (Bit Error Rate) factor and select one with the highest number.

Splitters will specify losses in dB usually with factors of 3, 7.5. That number aggregates with the number of splitters you use so if you start splitting splitters it would be best to add amplification.

Also, look at the coaxial cable. New cable is normally stamped "RG6" with a phrase "Swept to 1 GHz " some number like that. That is very important in terms of digital reception.

Hope this helps. One reason I dropped DTV is that locals were not included. Plus I get a great package from Comcast for my TV/Phone/INet.

**bevischief** · 01-16-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

Ouch, well I'm not moving to the rez, so I'll have live with it. I will just thave to figure out the best choice, given that information.

FOX had an edge before the digital switch, but vanished after that.

the analog signals were a lot stronger, digital require as much power
Posted via Mobile Device

Jack · 01-16-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

The results:

DTV	Antenna Type	Call Sign	Channel	Network	City, State	Compass Heading	Miles From	RF Channel
*	yellow uhf	KBGS-DT	16.1	IND	BILLINGS, MT	86°	5.4	16
*	yellow vhf	KULR-DT	8.1	NBC	BILLINGS, MT	92°	5.7	11
*	yellow vhf	KTVQ-DT	2.1	CBS	BILLINGS, MT	88°	5.4	10
*	red uhf	K20HB-D	20.1	PBS	BOZEMAN, MT	88°	5.4	20
*	red uhf	KSVI-DT	6.1	ABC	BILLINGS, MT	68°	11.1	18
*	blue uhf	K25BP-D	25.1	ABC	BILLINGS, MT	87°	5.4	25
*	violet uhf	KHMT-DT	4.1	FOX	HARDIN, MT	86°	20.9	22

With the exception of the ABC station at 68° no need for a rotor.

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

Since I've done antenna design in my career, I'll chime in here.

Skip is pretty close to the solution.

First, antennas; you need to look at the "gain" factor. A lot of spiffy looking antennas sell looks and not performance. Gains on the order of 10 dB on the lower channels (2-13) is average and 20-25 db on the UHF channels are probably all you will find. The higher gain factor means the antennas beamwidth is narrow and that's where a antenna rotator may be needed. Now, the "F" factor. All TV stations now have switched to digital. The old designs for analog antennas are limited by the same physics, however digital modulation is much narrower in beamwidth thus exacerbating the directional issue. Bottom line, look at the transmitter locations and if they are more than 20° difference invest into a rotor.

Amplifiers are often useless. If you live on the fringe, they just amplify noise. Having said that, digital is impervious to noise so there may be some trade off but I would be pessimistic but don't let this prevent you from trying one. Look for the BER (Bit Error Rate) factor and select one with the highest number.

Splitters will specify losses in dB usually with factors of 3, 7.5. That number aggregates with the number of splitters you use so if you start splitting splitters it would be best to add amplification.

Also, look at the coaxial cable. New cable is normally stamped "RG6" with a phrase "Swept to 1 GHz " some number like that. That is very important in terms of digital reception.

Hope this helps. One reason I dropped DTV is that locals were not included. Plus I get a great package from Comcast for my TV/Phone/INet.

I can tell this isn't your first rodeo either, Thanks!

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

With the exception of the ABC station at 68° no need for a rotor.

So is there a specific antenna you would go with in this case?

**Bwana** · 01-16-2010, 10:52 AM

On a side note, this place never ceases to amaze me with the wealth of information that it can provide on any given topic. I would guess that if I'm having this problem, there are 20 other people that are following the thread as well, looking for the same answers. I really appreciate the information!

Jack · 01-16-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bevischief

the analog signals were a lot stronger, digital require as much power
Posted via Mobile Device

Same power level of analog versus digital results in 12dB coverage loss, and at most of the frequencies used, dramatically increasing the transmitted power does not increase coverage. It is the nature of the beast at UHF frequencies.

Stewie · 01-16-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

So is there a specific antenna you would go with in this case?

I wouldn't invest in a "multi-directional" antenna. They promise more than they deliver.

01-16-2010, 09:24 AM
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2135820532	Direct TV Signal Issues I wanted to tap into the Planets expert advice regarding a TV signal from hell. Most of the time my Direct TV signal is great on the satellite, but when it comes to the "local channel's" they fade in and out like the wind. Unfortunately, in my area, Direct TV doesn't offer the locals yet, so I am forced to get the locals off an antenna. I have the B Band converters hooked up, so that's not the issue. When the Direct TV guy was here about a year ago, he mentioned there was some kind of booster box and also some kind of a "super antenna" if you will. He claimed the antenna was the cats ass and or the king daddy of antennas. Does any of this ring a bell? (Radio Shack?) I am tired of the local CBS, ABC, NBC fading out and not even being able to get the local FOX station at all. I PMed Direct TV guru Skip, which seems like the logical choice, but I thought there may be others out there who have had the same problems and worked through it. Any ideas?
Posts: 70,496

01-16-2010, 10:07 AM	#17
tsyou606 Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In a townhouse Casino cash: $10011725	check out directv.com i was looking at it yesterday they have some sort of signal booster for 50 dollars
Posts: 67

01-16-2010, 10:40 AM	#23
Jack Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Centralia, WA Casino cash: $10005010	Since I've done antenna design in my career, I'll chime in here. Skip is pretty close to the solution. First, antennas; you need to look at the "gain" factor. A lot of spiffy looking antennas sell looks and not performance. Gains on the order of 10 dB on the lower channels (2-13) is average and 20-25 db on the UHF channels are probably all you will find. The higher gain factor means the antennas beamwidth is narrow and that's where a antenna rotator may be needed. Now, the "F" factor. All TV stations now have switched to digital. The old designs for analog antennas are limited by the same physics, however digital modulation is much narrower in beamwidth thus exacerbating the directional issue. Bottom line, look at the transmitter locations and if they are more than 20° difference invest into a rotor. Amplifiers are often useless. If you live on the fringe, they just amplify noise. Having said that, digital is impervious to noise so there may be some trade off but I would be pessimistic but don't let this prevent you from trying one. Look for the BER (Bit Error Rate) factor and select one with the highest number. Splitters will specify losses in dB usually with factors of 3, 7.5. That number aggregates with the number of splitters you use so if you start splitting splitters it would be best to add amplification. Also, look at the coaxial cable. New cable is normally stamped "RG6" with a phrase "Swept to 1 GHz " some number like that. That is very important in terms of digital reception. Hope this helps. One reason I dropped DTV is that locals were not included. Plus I get a great package from Comcast for my TV/Phone/INet.
Posts: 616

01-16-2010, 10:52 AM	#28
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2135820532	On a side note, this place never ceases to amaze me with the wealth of information that it can provide on any given topic. I would guess that if I'm having this problem, there are 20 other people that are following the thread as well, looking for the same answers. I really appreciate the information! __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
Posts: 70,496