Chiefs Desired Characteristics in the Next Head Coach - Page 5

**Rain Man** · 12-12-2011, 07:11 PM

It'll take me a few minutes to get the poll put up, so in the meantime, discuss why NASA hasn't used dog breeding philosophies and selective breeding to produce little tiny astronauts for Mars missions.

DMAC · 12-13-2011, 02:01 PM

A team is only as good as their QB. Just look around the league. The identity of the team is with the QB, not the coach.

jd1020 · 12-13-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMAC

A team is only as good as their QB. Just look around the league. The identity of the team is with the QB, not the coach.

One could make an argument for the 49ers.

DMAC · 12-13-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

One could make an argument for the 49ers.

Your argument is valid. Their D is their identity. But this is definitely not common.

whoman69 · 12-13-2011, 04:41 PM

Normally when hiring a coach you want to go 180 on the previous coach's temperment if that coach didn't work out. Its also best to go to the other side of the ball, so we're back to a coach with a defensive background. Most Super Bowl level HCs have a history of being a pro coordinator. Only Coughlin and Vermeil haven't followed that path in the last 15 years. Being a retread HC isn't necessarily bad as long as that coach has not won a Super Bowl.

patteeu · 12-13-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Normally when hiring a coach you want to go 180 on the previous coach's temperment if that coach didn't work out. Its also best to go to the other side of the ball, so we're back to a coach with a defensive background. Most Super Bowl level HCs have a history of being a pro coordinator. Only Coughlin and Vermeil haven't followed that path in the last 15 years. Being a retread HC isn't necessarily bad as long as that coach has not won a Super Bowl.

How many super bowl winning coaches have gone on to coach another team? How many years did those coaches continue to coach without a championship? How many years do non-superbowl-winning coaches have to coach, on average, before winning their first championship?

The idea that we shouldn't hire a coach who already has a superbowl because there have never been any to repeat with another team is flawed, IMO, because of the small sample size.

stonedstooge · 12-13-2011, 05:38 PM

Clark says "would like to find someone who will come at a cheap salary"

Gary · 12-13-2011, 06:34 PM

I want a coach that knows how to develop talent. I want a coach that has the "Michael Jordan" effect...meaning players are scared to death of putting in a bad performance and letting him down, so they raise their game to the level he demands. I want a coach that has a look/attitude like Parcells did in the old NY Giant days on the sidelines.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-13-2011, 06:37 PM

#1) Hired by a GM who isn't Scott Pioli.

whoman69 · 12-13-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

How many super bowl winning coaches have gone on to coach another team? How many years did those coaches continue to coach without a championship? How many years do non-superbowl-winning coaches have to coach, on average, before winning their first championship?

The idea that we shouldn't hire a coach who already has a superbowl because there have never been any to repeat with another team is flawed, IMO, because of the small sample size.

Seiffert was coach of the Panthers for 3 years and didn't get another job because the last year he was there they won 1 game. Jimmy Johnson spent 4 years with the Dolphins and quit after his team was beaten 62-7 by Jax in the playoffs. Mike Ditka and Hank Stram both went to the Saints and burned hard there after 2 and 3 seasons respectively. Ditka pretty much burned bridges after trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams. Tom Flores spent three seasons with the Seahawks. Joe Gibbs proved you can't go home again with the Redskins after 4 seasons. Bill Parcelles had stints with the Patriots, Jets and Cowboys getting back to the Super Bowl but losing, a total of 11 seasons. Mike Holmgren spent 9 seasons with the Seahawks, losing in SB XL. Shanahan has spent the last 2 seasons destroying the Redskins. Don McCafferty was fired after refusing to bench Unitas and spent one season with the Lions where he died of a heart attack after his first season. Vince Lombardi had 2 seasons with the Redskins, one as GM and the other as coach before succumbing to cancer.

You don't think that is enough? Prior to the Super Bowl era, Weeb Ewbank is the only coach to win championships with two different teams. That's about 90 years of history.

Coaches generally win their first Super Bowl within five years of being with their team. Noll, Coughlin and Cowher would be the exceptions there.

CaliforniaChief · 12-13-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia

Did not even vote on 3-7 because I don't really care about any of that crap. I want a coach who has the basic set of skills covered period. I'm tired of stupid clock management errors. I'm tired of taking three points when we really need 7 if we have our sights set on winning. I want a coach who can adapt the scheme to showcase the available players' strengths. I want a coach who can make halftime adjustments to the gameplan. I want a guy who can motivate and have the team prepared to play every time they step on the field. I want a guy who doesn't smile, joke, and carry on after a stupid loss that was most likely his fault. I want a guy who will actually answer an honest question with an honest answer. Let the PR people handle PR. Let the coach talk.

edit: I also want a dexterous coach who can get out of the way of a sideline tackle.

Pretty much this. I want a guy who is an excellent game planner and knows how to execute the strategy, dealing with adjustments and other things. Good at clock management and not an idiot with the challenge flags.

Obviously he has to set a championship-oriented culture in the locker room and keep everyone accountable to that.

patteeu · 12-13-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Seiffert was coach of the Panthers for 3 years and didn't get another job because the last year he was there they won 1 game. Jimmy Johnson spent 4 years with the Dolphins and quit after his team was beaten 62-7 by Jax in the playoffs. Mike Ditka and Hank Stram both went to the Saints and burned hard there after 2 and 3 seasons respectively. Ditka pretty much burned bridges after trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams. Tom Flores spent three seasons with the Seahawks. Joe Gibbs proved you can't go home again with the Redskins after 4 seasons. Bill Parcelles had stints with the Patriots, Jets and Cowboys getting back to the Super Bowl but losing, a total of 11 seasons. Mike Holmgren spent 9 seasons with the Seahawks, losing in SB XL. Shanahan has spent the last 2 seasons destroying the Redskins. Don McCafferty was fired after refusing to bench Unitas and spent one season with the Lions where he died of a heart attack after his first season. Vince Lombardi had 2 seasons with the Redskins, one as GM and the other as coach before succumbing to cancer.

You don't think that is enough? Prior to the Super Bowl era, Weeb Ewbank is the only coach to win championships with two different teams. That's about 90 years of history.

Coaches generally win their first Super Bowl within five years of being with their team. Noll, Coughlin and Cowher would be the exceptions there.

No, I don't really think that's enough. I don't expect this superstition to be predictive forever.

Tombstone RJ · 12-13-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Seiffert was coach of the Panthers for 3 years and didn't get another job because the last year he was there they won 1 game. Jimmy Johnson spent 4 years with the Dolphins and quit after his team was beaten 62-7 by Jax in the playoffs. Mike Ditka and Hank Stram both went to the Saints and burned hard there after 2 and 3 seasons respectively. Ditka pretty much burned bridges after trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams. Tom Flores spent three seasons with the Seahawks. Joe Gibbs proved you can't go home again with the Redskins after 4 seasons. Bill Parcelles had stints with the Patriots, Jets and Cowboys getting back to the Super Bowl but losing, a total of 11 seasons. Mike Holmgren spent 9 seasons with the Seahawks, losing in SB XL. Shanahan has spent the last 2 seasons destroying the Redskins. Don McCafferty was fired after refusing to bench Unitas and spent one season with the Lions where he died of a heart attack after his first season. Vince Lombardi had 2 seasons with the Redskins, one as GM and the other as coach before succumbing to cancer.

You don't think that is enough? Prior to the Super Bowl era, Weeb Ewbank is the only coach to win championships with two different teams. That's about 90 years of history.

Coaches generally win their first Super Bowl within five years of being with their team. Noll, Coughlin and Cowher would be the exceptions there.

Don't forget about Dick Vermiel...

whoman69 · 12-13-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

No, I don't really think that's enough. I don't expect this superstition to be predictive forever.

90 years of history and you still don't give in. Is your picture next to the word intractable in the dictionary?

patteeu · 12-13-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

90 years of history and you still don't give in. Is your picture next to the word intractable in the dictionary?

There are a grand total of 11 super bowl winning coaches who have gone on to coach other teams. Of those, 2 are still active so the jury is out.

Compare that small number to the scores, if not hundreds, of coaches who never get their first SB championship.

I don't think we should let superstition limit our options. If a still-energetic, former super bowl winning coaching candidate is available, he ought to get just as much consideration as a guy who's never been a coach or the guy who's teams never won it all.

CrazyHorse · 12-14-2011, 04:58 AM

I find it interesting that most chose, "Coach is an X’s and O’s coach and not a “player’s coach” instead of, "Coach is a "player's coach".

However when asked about skills vs. systems, most chose, "Coach is known for development of fundamental skills in players more than innovative systems." instead of," Coach is known for developing innovative systems over developing fundamental skills."

Further, most chose to draft best available over best fit for system.

This proves that most dont know what they want. It also shows most dont know what they are talking about. I find that hard to believe with all the experts we have here at CP.

View Poll Results: Multi-Part Poll. Pick one from each set of choices. Then discuss.
**** Part 1. Player relationships.	5	7.46%
Coach is a "player's coach".	13	19.40%
Coach is an X’s and O’s coach and not a “player’s coach”	48	71.64%
**** Part 2. Personnel power	4	5.97%
Coach is also GM	6	8.96%
Coach and GM are separate	55	82.09%
**** Part 3. Playing history	4	5.97%
Coach played in the NFL as a star	7	10.45%
Coach played in the NFL as a fringe player	42	62.69%
Coach never played in the NFL	12	17.91%
**** Part 4. Super Bowl history	3	4.48%
Coach has a Super Bowl ring as a head coach	15	22.39%
Coach has a Super Bowl ring as a coordinator	31	46.27%
Coach has a Super Bowl ring as an assistant (non-coordinator)	19	28.36%
Coach has not been involved as a coach in a Super Bowl	11	16.42%
**** Part 5. Coaching pedigree	5	7.46%
Coach comes from the Belichick tree	6	8.96%
Coach comes from the Schottenheimer tree	7	10.45%
Coach comes from the Parcells tree	4	5.97%
Coach comes from the Walsh tree	3	4.48%
Coach comes from the Jimmy Johnson tree	3	4.48%
Coach comes from the tree of some other Super Bowl winning coach in the past decade	17	25.37%
Coach does not come from any of the dynasty trees.	31	46.27%
**** Part 6. NFL Coaching experience	4	5.97%
Coach has been a previous NFL head coach	20	29.85%
Coach has been an NFL coordinator, but not head coach	39	58.21%
Coach has been a college head coach, but no NFL experience	10	14.93%
Coach has been a college coordinator, but no NFL or head coach experience	2	2.99%
**** Part 7. Offense vs. Defense	4	5.97%
Coach came up as an offensive guy	39	58.21%
Coach came up as a defensive guy	21	31.34%
**** Part 8. Sustainability vs. Turnaround	4	5.97%
Coach has a stronger lifetime W-L record	40	59.70%
Coach has a less strong W-L record, but has a record of turning around bad teams	19	28.36%
**** Part 9. Skills vs. Systems	4	5.97%
Coach is known for development of fundamental skills in players more than innovative systems	37	55.22%
Coach is known for developing innovative systems over developing fundamental skills	22	32.84%
**** Part 10. Best player available vs. Cohesive system	5	7.46%
Coach drafts/acquires best available players even if they’re not a fit for his current system.	35	52.24%
Coach drafts/acquires players who best fit a system that he puts into place even if they’re not the best raw players	24	35.82%
**** Part 11. Personality	4	5.97%
Coach is fiery, rough, and demonstrative	22	32.84%
Coach is cool, sophisticated, and cerebral	37	55.22%
**** Part 12. Risk-Taking	4	5.97%
Coach is, if anything, too bold for his own good.	53	79.10%
Coach is, if anything, too conservative for his own good.	2	2.99%
**** Part 13. Coach timeline	4	5.97%
Coach should have 1-2 years to turn this baby around	21	31.34%
Coach should have 3-4 years to turn this baby around	37	55.22%
I plan to write to NASA about that whole tiny astronaut thing.	8	11.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

12-12-2011, 07:11 PM
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-652449 VARSITY	Desired Characteristics in the Next Head Coach It'll take me a few minutes to get the poll put up, so in the meantime, discuss why NASA hasn't used dog breeding philosophies and selective breeding to produce little tiny astronauts for Mars missions.
Posts: 145,480

12-13-2011, 02:01 PM	#61
DMAC MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Springfield, MO Casino cash: $10008735	A team is only as good as their QB. Just look around the league. The identity of the team is with the QB, not the coach.
Posts: 11,651

12-13-2011, 05:38 PM	#66
stonedstooge Arf! Arf! Arf! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: North Casino cash: $3824173	Clark says "would like to find someone who will come at a cheap salary" __________________ 2013 ADOPT A CHIEF Eric Kush "Often is a word I seldom use"--JP
Posts: 25,289

12-13-2011, 06:34 PM	#67
Gary The Shepherd Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sunny Florida Casino cash: $9955472	I want a coach that knows how to develop talent. I want a coach that has the "Michael Jordan" effect...meaning players are scared to death of putting in a bad performance and letting him down, so they raise their game to the level he demands. I want a coach that has a look/attitude like Parcells did in the old NY Giant days on the sidelines. __________________ The truth is you're the weak and I am the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin Ringo...I'm tryin real hard to be the shepherd.
Posts: 906

12-13-2011, 06:37 PM	#68
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7149572	#1) Hired by a GM who isn't Scott Pioli. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-14-2011, 04:58 AM	#75
CrazyHorse All Motor! Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I find it interesting that most chose, "Coach is an X’s and O’s coach and not a “player’s coach” instead of, "Coach is a "player's coach". However when asked about skills vs. systems, most chose, "Coach is known for development of fundamental skills in players more than innovative systems." instead of," Coach is known for developing innovative systems over developing fundamental skills." Further, most chose to draft best available over best fit for system. This proves that most dont know what they want. It also shows most dont know what they are talking about. I find that hard to believe with all the experts we have here at CP.
Posts: 2,118