*** Official Youth, High School, College and International Wrestling Thread ***

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by rico

I stand corrected on my thinking earlier... That is some interesting stuff. I think J'Den would do just fine at HWT.

Well it wasn't too long ago we had immovable fatties like Cole Konrad and Dustin Fox winning championships. I think Sam Stoll is going to try and bring back the fat for Iowa next year.
I think some of it has to do with the popularity of football. If you're the type to have to lose weight to make 285, you're likely a football player and not a wrestler.


As far as adding a weight, id rather see one added in the middle weights since participation numbers support that thinking. But if we could bump 197 up to 210, id be ok with that. Someone 225-230 could reasonably get there. Something like:

127
135
144
152
160
169
180
192
210
285

[rico]

Originally Posted by Rudy lost the toss

Well it wasn't too long ago we had immovable fatties like Cole Konrad and Dustin Fox winning championships. I think Sam Stoll is going to try and bring back the fat for Iowa next year.
I think some of it has to do with the popularity of football. If you're the type to have to lose weight to make 285, you're likely a football player and not a wrestler.


As far as adding a weight, id rather see one added in the middle weights since participation numbers support that thinking. But if we could bump 197 up to 210, id be ok with that. Someone 225-230 could reasonably get there. Something like:

127
135
144
152
160
169
180
192
210
285

I like that idea a lot.

What about the tiny dudes who have a difficult time gaining enough weight to wrestle 125? They are out there. Do you think a 118 lb class would work? I wrestled in college with a guy who was a complete badass and no matter what he did, he couldn't outgrow 115 lbs. He hit the weights religiously, went on weight gaining diets, etc....he could just not overcome the fact that he was 4'10 and never going to reach 126. And he was GOOD. One of the hardest workers in the room, for...sure. One of the best, most physical wrestlers. He was just too small. If there was a weight suitable for him, he would be 3rd tier D1 material... A guy who would probably make some noise and maybe win some matches at nationals. Instead, he was 2nd string D3 at 125 his entire career, weighing 116 on full feed and won 65% or so of his matches. Sad stuff...he had so much heart.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by rico

I like that idea a lot.

What about the tiny dudes who have a difficult time gaining enough weight to wrestle 125? They are out there. Do you think a 118 lb class would work? I wrestled in college with a guy who was a complete badass and no matter what he did, he couldn't outgrow 115 lbs. He hit the weights religiously, went on weight gaining diets, etc....he could just not overcome the fact that he was 4'10 and never going to reach 126. And he was GOOD. One of the hardest workers in the room, for...sure. One of the best, most physical wrestlers. He was just too small. If there was a weight suitable for him, he would be 3rd tier D1 material... A guy who would probably make some noise and maybe win some matches at nationals. Instead, he was 2nd string D3 at 125 his entire career, weighing 116 on full feed and won 65% or so of his matches. Sad stuff...he had so much heart.

I think a watered down weight like 118 would be bad for the sport. I know wrestling wants to be the sport that includes everybody, but i don't share that line of thinking. I can't imagine how hard it would be to recruit a 118 pounder that wasn't killing himself to make weight. I know there are a few good 113 pound seniors this year, but some of them actually do fill out eventually. Matt Kyler and Jordan Conaway come to mind. I felt the same way when people complained about moving 103 to 106. God forbid your 95 pound freshman wrestler has to wrestle JV for a year. If it means less forfeits, it's good for the sport. Another example is having an 88 pound weight class for 14/15 year olds at the Cadet level. When there are as many 106 pounders as there are 88 94/100 combined, why do we still have 88?

[rico]

Originally Posted by Rudy lost the toss

I think a watered down weight like 118 would be bad for the sport. I know wrestling wants to be the sport that includes everybody, but i don't share that line of thinking. I can't imagine how hard it would be to recruit a 118 pounder that wasn't killing himself to make weight. I know there are a few good 113 pound seniors this year, but some of them actually do fill out eventually. Matt Kyler and Jordan Conaway come to mind. I felt the same way when people complained about moving 103 to 106. God forbid your 95 pound freshman wrestler has to wrestle JV for a year. If it means less forfeits, it's good for the sport. Another example is having an 88 pound weight class for 14/15 year olds at the Cadet level. When there are as many 106 pounders as there are 88 94/100 combined, why do we still have 88?

The high school weight classes at the lower weights has always baffled me. Back in the day, 98 lbs was the lightest weight in Iowa. And I meet former 98 lbers all the time. I don't hear very many stories of teams having difficulty filling that slot back in the 70's/80's. However, the minimum weight increased to 103 and now to 106...and many schools have a hell of a time occupying the 106 lb weight class... Have people gotten smaller or were the scales different back then? Not likely, but I can't help, but wonder if the coaches were a bit sketchier back then when it came to weigh ins. When I was a Freshman and Sophomore in high school, we weighed in, first thing in the morning. The only thing necessary that had to be present for a successful weigh in was a certified coach had to be present and witness the kids weighing in. Our own coach weighed us in...and he was honest about it. I've always wondered how many coaches around the state cheated a bit on it...and I wonder if you saw more 98 lbers back in the day because of it. We didn't move to the "weigh in an hour prior to competition in front of both team's coaches" system until I was a Junior...crazy to think about.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by rico

The high school weight classes at the lower weights has always baffled me. Back in the day, 98 lbs was the lightest weight in Iowa. And I meet former 98 lbers all the time. I don't hear very many stories of teams having difficulty filling that slot back in the 70's/80's. However, the minimum weight increased to 103 and now to 106...and many schools have a hell of a time occupying the 106 lb weight class... Have people gotten smaller or were the scales different back then? Not likely, but I can't help, but wonder if the coaches were a bit sketchier back then when it came to weigh ins. When I was a Freshman and Sophomore in high school, we weighed in, first thing in the morning. The only thing necessary that had to be present for a successful weigh in was a certified coach had to be present and witness the kids weighing in. Our own coach weighed us in...and he was honest about it. I've always wondered how many coaches around the state cheated a bit on it...and I wonder if you saw more 98 lbers back in the day because of it. We didn't move to the "weigh in an hour prior to competition in front of both team's coaches" system until I was a Junior...crazy to think about.

I tend to agree. Unlike myself, my sons wrestle/wrestle were always in the "25th percentile" of size and weight, so wrestling really helped them not get crushed by every fat and overweight kid in many other sports. Yeah, AND I EVEN HELPED start the local youth football league, AND coach them both in baseball too. So I know and love all the sports, so I think I know where I'm being fair, but wrestling is the one sport where size and weight are taken out of the mix for the most part.

[rico]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I tend to agree. Unlike myself, my sons wrestle/wrestle were always in the "25th percentile" of size and weight, so wrestling really helped them not get crushed by every fat and overweight kid in many other sports. Yeah, AND I EVEN HELPED start the local youth football league, AND coach them both in baseball too. So I know and love all the sports, so I think I know where I'm being fair, but wrestling is the one sport where size and weight are taken out of the mix for the most part.

Yep... one of the cool things about wrestling is that it appeals to some of the kids who firmly believe that they have been overlooked for whatever reason in other sports, and wrestling works for them for they have more control over their destiny.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by rico

Yep... one of the cool things about wrestling is that it appeals to some of the kids who firmly believe that they have been overlooked for whatever reason in other sports, and wrestling works for them for they have more control over their destiny.

It was true for me. I was a basketball kid and I just never hit a growth spurt. Wish I would have wrestled earlier in life.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by rico

Yep... one of the cool things about wrestling is that it appeals to some of the kids who firmly believe that they have been overlooked for whatever reason in other sports, and wrestling works for them for they have more control over their destiny.

Other than the GT fans on their blog not getting Gabe's point after winning, Gabe really said it well, wrestling is a sport where you're in control. It's one of the first things you learn when you get into it, and it's what drives any number of self-proclaimed "great" athletes away from wrestling.

There might be some wiggle room for those who say "the room" and "practice partners" can make a huge difference, and I'll buy that to a point, but in the end it's on the wrestler and ONLY the wrestler to control the outcome and his future. Well, aside from some of the "crap calls" you'll here all too often, but you can't fix that.

I stressed a saying with my wrestlers and especially son, "when you're out there, you have no team mates, no timeouts, and no excuses. (If you need them you need to try baseball, football, basketball, or soccer)" Once they grasp that concept, have their first ass-kicking from a kid who out-everything'ed them, they make a choice - work harder and get better, or quit.

The first time I saw my son fight through a loss with two tampons shoved up his nose, only to lose, I knew he was in it to win it. All he said after that loss, and I let him lead in with the post-match debrief, was that he tried his best and will stick him next time. Other than hiding the tear that was welling-up in my eye, I knew there was no coaching point that could be made at that moment because he did the #1 most important thing, he tried his hardest, stayed calm, worked the moves he knew, and left it all on the mat (and some blood) - so what if that's more than one!!!! Later we broke-down the film, he noted some opportunities he missed, and we moved on (swollen nose and all - yeah, broken!). That was the day I realized he was better than me at this sport too (more athletic in every way, and mentally in a really good place).

And he didn't stick the kid the next time, but he won by 8 points and most of the points were back points (both ways to be honest!). They are still friends today.

Oddly enough, when he gave-up wrestling for robotics, he did pickup tennis, and one of the reasons he loves tennis so much is because he doesn't have to worry about whiny team mates, there are no excuses, and he kind of likes the time-outs...

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by rico

The high school weight classes at the lower weights has always baffled me. Back in the day, 98 lbs was the lightest weight in Iowa. And I meet former 98 lbers all the time. I don't hear very many stories of teams having difficulty filling that slot back in the 70's/80's. However, the minimum weight increased to 103 and now to 106...and many schools have a hell of a time occupying the 106 lb weight class... Have people gotten smaller or were the scales different back then? Not likely, but I can't help, but wonder if the coaches were a bit sketchier back then when it came to weigh ins. When I was a Freshman and Sophomore in high school, we weighed in, first thing in the morning. The only thing necessary that had to be present for a successful weigh in was a certified coach had to be present and witness the kids weighing in. Our own coach weighed us in...and he was honest about it. I've always wondered how many coaches around the state cheated a bit on it...and I wonder if you saw more 98 lbers back in the day because of it. We didn't move to the "weigh in an hour prior to competition in front of both team's coaches" system until I was a Junior...crazy to think about.

Yeah, it seems weird to me too. Not sure why it's different. I do like going back and watching old Olympic matches at 48kg and 52kg. It's hilarious watching two lightning quick jockeys going at it.