Brett Veach hopes Chris Jones can play next week; increased talks last 2 days

[RunKC]

For the mega thread hating crew

#Chiefs GM Brett Veach says he's hopeful that DT Chris Jones will play in their season opener vs. the Lions, which is just eight days away.

Veach mentioned that there has been increased communication on an extension over the past two days. pic.twitter.com/MpLGt0mYhz

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) August 30, 2023

[Raiderhater]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

I didn't say Veach is an idiot. I said Chris has a case that he's as valuable as a top DE.

I didn’t say you said he was an idiot, I said he disagrees with your opinion.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by tredadda

But he's also one of the best to ever do it at his position. He would have commanded that with any team in the league if salary was no option.

And if Jones was on the open market right now, some team would probably give him $30M for the next 3 years.

Jones' problem isn't his value. It's that he's under contract, and has little leverage.

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by DrunkBassGuitar

Pretty sure the Chiefs have a relationship with wac arnolds which is why they sell the flags before the first game and donate the money to the donald mcronalds house

Nick wright was saying this was a chiefs event and not a Jones specific event

Pretty sure there is another Chiefs event soon. It's called the home opener. Get your ass there Jones!

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

My guess is that Mahomes has a much better understanding of markets than you do. One of the reasons why he makes so much money from endorsements is because he is pursuing true greatness not a short term windfall (though he is making that as well). Look at what Tom Brady is making now with his TV contract with FOX--more than he ever did as a football player. Do you think he would ever make that much if he had maximized his football contract and only won two Super Bowls?

Mahomes has his eyes set on the long term. He understands it is an investment.

This. I'm sure there's a part of Mahomes that's annoyed by CJ, but it's a lot more because he values winning more than anything else (and rightfully so as his brand is based on winning) rather than because he accepted less and now this guy is trying to bleed the stone.

Mahomes has a massive amount of equity in the Chiefs winning the SB, much more than anyone else outside of Clark Hunt.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by Raiderhater

I didn’t say you said he was an idiot, I said he disagrees with your opinion.

I think it's more like Veach questions how valuable Jones will be in 2025, and doesn't want to get saddled with another Berry/Houston contract.

I never said the Chiefs should pay Jones what he wants. I said Jones has a case that he's as valuable as a top DE.

I've said all along that Veach has all the leverage, because the Chiefs are ok with getting all of pre-30 Jones, and then letting him walk or trading him for whatever they can get in a tag and trade.

Which is why Jones is super dumb for not showing up soon. That tag # right now is probably untenable. But if it goes down by a bunch of games, then it comes into play.

It's a bad position for Jones, since any drop from his all-world 2022 season and teams will assume he's on the decline. I'm sure Jones knows this as well and is trying to play what leverage he has while his value is sky high.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

And if Jones was on the open market right now, some team would probably give him $30M for the next 3 years.

Jones' problem isn't his value. It's that he's under contract, and has little leverage.

Correct. That's because there are bad GMs out there that would overpay Jones. Many teams would not pay that. Unlike Donald that every one would pay if money was not an option. Jones is good and had a great year, but he will never be in the same conversation as Donald. Last year was the exception because Donald was hurt.

Also a team gave up three first round picks and $230 million fully guaranteed for a QB. Would the rest of the league have done that?

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Correct. That's because there are bad GMs out there that would overpay Jones. Many teams would not pay that. Unlike Donald that every one would pay if money was not an option. Jones is good and had a great year, but he will never be in the same conversation as Donald. Last year was the exception because Donald was hurt.

Right. So my point is that the fact that Jones is a DT really doesn't enter much into the equation. It's all about who has leverage. If Jones was an unrestricted free agent, he'd have all the leverage, and someone would pay him like he was a top DE.

Anyway that would be my argument if I was Jones. I don't want to be compared to some DT salary scale, I want to be compared to the top defensive salaries in the league.

And if this was Jones' first big contract, Veach would probably pay it. The whole issue is can Jones really play at this level for 3 more years.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

In which Patrick learns that being nice in contract negotiations only earns you less money.

Considering the structure of his contract it essentially guaranteed without calling it such. Being nice paid off for a guy who will probably be a billionaire before he retires.

[Raiderhater]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

I think it's more like Veach questions how valuable Jones will be in 2025, and doesn't want to get saddled with another Berry/Houston contract.

I never said the Chiefs should pay Jones what he wants. I said Jones has a case that he's as valuable as a top DE.

I've said all along that Veach has all the leverage, because the Chiefs are ok with getting all of pre-30 Jones, and then letting him walk or trading him for whatever they can get in a tag and trade.

Which is why Jones is super dumb for not showing up soon. That tag # right now is probably untenable. But if it goes down by a bunch of games, then it comes into play.

It's a bad position for Jones, since any drop from his all-world 2022 season and teams will assume he's on the decline. I'm sure Jones knows this as well and is trying to play what leverage he has while his value is sky high.

Even if Veach, or anyone else, were to acknowledge that case, it would only be for this season. But we aren’t talking about just this season; the contract talks are for 2-3 years beyond this one. So in the context of the contract being discussed, Veach does not agree with your or CJ’s opinion that he is as valuable as a top flight DE.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Right. So my point is that the fact that Jones is a DT really doesn't enter much into the equation. It's all about who has leverage. If Jones was an unrestricted free agent, he'd have all the leverage, and someone would pay him like he was a top DE.

Anyway that would be my argument if I was Jones. I don't want to be compared to some DT salary scale, I want to be compared to the top defensive salaries in the league.

And if this was Jones' first big contract, Veach would probably pay it. The whole issue is can Jones really play at this level for 3 more years.

He could still get $27 million a year and be in the conversation for highest paid defenders in the league. The fact is it comes down to positional value and age.

A great example would be Derrick Henry. Hard to argue that he's not one of the most important non QB skill players in the league and his importance can't be understated. You think anyone is paying him a salary in the range of Tyreek or Adams? Nope. Why? Age and positional value. It is what it is.

Sure a perennial basement dweller could afford to give him $30 million because of cap space, no contender is going to do that.

[Bwana]

Originally Posted by jettio

He has had a local endorsement deal for the last 3-4 years at least with McDonald's.

Maybe it is a regional franchise owner and not corporate.

Maybe that endorsement deal has some stuff he is supposed to do.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it!!

[jettio]

It would be penny wise and pound foolish to not up the offer to Jones.

Chiefs front office could lose goodwill in locker room. What if Sneed has another great season and he does not get a market rate deal from Chiefs?

Why would you want Trent McDuffie, Nick Bolton and other players on rookie contracts to think they will have to leave KC to get a market rate second contract?

[jettio]

It would be penny wise and pound foolish to not up the offer to Jones.

Chiefs front office could lose goodwill in locker room. What if Sneed has another great season and he does not get a market rate deal from Chiefs?

Why would you want Trent McDuffie, Nick Bolton and other players on rookie contracts to think they will have to leave KC to get a market rate second contract?

[jettio]

It would be penny wise and pound foolish to not up the offer to Jones.

Chiefs front office could lose goodwill in locker room. What if Sneed has another great season and he does not get a market rate deal from Chiefs?

Why would you want Trent McDuffie, Nick Bolton and other players on rookie contracts to think they will have to leave KC to get a market rate second contract?

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Raiderhater

Even if Veach, or anyone else, were to acknowledge that case, it would only be for this season. But we aren’t talking about just this season; the contract talks are for 2-3 years beyond this one. So in the context of the contract being discussed, Veach does not agree with your or CJ’s opinion that he is as valuable as a top flight DE.

All indications are the talks are about the 2 years beyond this one, and more likely than not the short-term nature is exactly why CJ is angling for more.

But there’s definitely a world where Veach feels CJ is asking for fair market value but just doesn’t see that expenditure making the most sense for the organization.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by jettio

He has had a local endorsement deal for the last 3-4 years at least with McDonald's.

Maybe it is a regional franchise owner and not corporate.

Maybe that endorsement deal has some stuff he is supposed to do.

They aren’t having him do “some stuff” 24 hours before a regular season game if this was a regularly planned appearance.

It was a PR stunt.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by jettio

It would be penny wise and pound foolish to not up the offer to Jones.

Chiefs front office could lose goodwill in locker room. What if Sneed has another great season and he does not get a market rate deal from Chiefs?

Why would you want Trent McDuffie, Nick Bolton and other players on rookie contracts to think they will have to leave KC to get a market rate second contract?

Please make it stop. Dozens of people have responded to this exact same message from you over the last several days.

The most important player in the game took less to remain with the team in the interest of building a winner. Another HOF player did the same. The Chiefs gave CJ of all people a top-of-the-market second contract likely beyond what Sneed, McDuffie, and Bolton would be looking for on a comparable basis.

But most importantly, it’s a top-shelf organization and if we offer those players comparable top-shelf money, they stay. If we don’t, they leave. Same as anything else.