Carl the reason our d sucked last year

[chiefsngop]

Nah... It wasn't just the JA trade, and this "saddled with the wrong players" excuse is tired.

Gunther went from average, to way below average, because we have a head coach that forced him to use the Tampa 2.

The Tampa 2 is not Gun's cup of tea, nor did it fit with our personnel. It's also outdated.

But Gun's average at best, even without a forced upon him sh*tbag scheme. So he has to go.

Gun only looked great when he was surrounded with very very high talent.

We need a D-coord. who can put a decent defense on the field with only 75 - 80% of the puzzle put together.

With Gun, we'd have to wait till nearly every single positon was upgraded with a very high caliber player, just to have an effective defense. And with the state of our D right now, that could be a very long wait. No Thanks.

[HIChief]

Originally Posted by chiefsngop

Nah... It wasn't just the JA trade, and this "saddled with the wrong players" excuse is tired.

Gunther went from average, to way below average, because we have a head coach that forced him to use the Tampa 2.

The Tampa 2 is not Gun's cup of tea, nor did it fit with our personnel. It's also outdated.

But Gun's average at best, even without a forced upon him sh*tbag scheme, so he has to go.

Gun only looked great when he was surrounded with very very high talent.

We need a D-coord. who can put a decent defense on the field with only 75 - 80% of the puzzle put together.

With Gun, we'd have to wait till nearly every single positon was upgraded with a very high caliber player, just to have an effective defense. And with the state of our D right now, that could be a very long wait. No Thanks.

You know, I'd almost buy that if anyone can name from memory all the starting D-linemen, all the linebackers, all the corners, and all the safeties on the 1998 Kansas City Chiefs team. I can't. Here's my go at it, and even this might be wrong:

D-line: Neil Smith, Dan Saleamua
Line Backers: Derrek Thomas, Donnie Edwards
Corners: James Hasty, Dale Carter
Safeties: ?

You see? Either there just weren't that many standouts, or my 46yr-old memory is faded.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by HIChief

You know, I'd almost buy that if anyone can name from memory all the starting D-linemen, all the linebackers, all the corners, and all the safeties on the 1998 Kansas City Chiefs team. I can't. Here's my go at it, and even this might be wrong:

D-line: Neil Smith, Dan Saleamua
Line Backers: Derrek Thomas, Donnie Edwards
Corners: James Hasty, Dale Carter
Safeties: ?

You see? Either there just weren't that many standouts, or my 46yr-old memory is faded.

You give me 2 dominant pass rushers and 2 lock down corners and you can play defense regardless of who the other guys are, all they have to be is role players.

And I'm really tired of the Gunther defenses it's Herms fault its Petersons fault, it's his fault for sucking balls. If you need elite players to run your defense properly your defensive scheming sucks.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by HIChief

You know, I'd almost buy that if anyone can name from memory all the starting D-linemen, all the linebackers, all the corners, and all the safeties on the 1998 Kansas City Chiefs team. I can't. Here's my go at it, and even this might be wrong:

D-line: Neil Smith, Dan Saleamua
Line Backers: Derrek Thomas, Donnie Edwards
Corners: James Hasty, Dale Carter
Safeties: ?

You see? Either there just weren't that many standouts, or my 46yr-old memory is faded.

WTF, he had pro bowl talent at every aspect of the defense, DL, LBs and secondary.

[HIChief]

Originally Posted by Brock

WTF, he had pro bowl talent at every aspect of the defense, DL, LBs and secondary.

Gunther had a lot of high calibur talent at his disposal, but not at EVERY position, nor at EVERY tier of the defense. And besides, as Mecca pointed out, without an effective scheme, having the best of the best wouldn't have mattered. I suspect Gunther used the D's strengths to mask, or make up for its weaknesses. It's just impossible to have a Pro Bowler at every position.

Anyway, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I'm asking questions and inviting responses from everyone's perspective, so that I can have a better understanding. There is such a wide range of opinion on what we need to fix the D. But, one thing we can all agree on; the D NEEDS FIXING!

[Brock]

Originally Posted by HIChief

Gunther had a lot of high calibur talent at his disposal, but not at EVERY position, nor at EVERY tier of the defense.

This looks like every tier of the defense to me, and it's a lot more than most coaches get to work with.

Neil Smith - Pro Bowler
Derrick Thomas - Pro Bowler
James Hasty - Pro Bowler
Dale Carter - Pro Bowler

[Rigodan]

Originally Posted by chiefsngop

Nah... It wasn't just the JA trade

A hell of a lot of it was the JA trade. We were 5th in passing yards allowed in 07 and 28th in 08 without JA. The pass rush is the most important element of the Tampa 2 and we saw what happens when its not there. That being said, I agree that the defensive staff is a piece of shit and needs to go.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by chiefsngop

Nah... It wasn't just the JA trade, and this "saddled with the wrong players" excuse is tired.

Gunther went from average, to way below average, because we have a head coach that forced him to use the Tampa 2.

The Tampa 2 is not Gun's cup of tea, nor did it fit with our personnel. It's also outdated.

But Gun's average at best, even without a forced upon him sh*tbag scheme. So he has to go.

Gun only looked great when he was surrounded with very very high talent.

We need a D-coord. who can put a decent defense on the field with only 75 - 80% of the puzzle put together.

With Gun, we'd have to wait till nearly every single positon was upgraded with a very high caliber player, just to have an effective defense. And with the state of our D right now, that could be a very long wait. No Thanks.

I don't know why people insist up and down that this defense failed because of the Cover 2. That's part of it. The Chiefs don't run a pure Cover 2. They integrate a lot of blitz packages and blitz a lot more than people suggest. The problem is that our guys are so poorly disciplined in disguising the blitz and because Gun has an extremely low imagination for innovative blitz schemes.

Gun is not running a defense outside of his wheelhouse. The defense still runs a Gun-style defense quite a bit, and that has not worked either.