What's with the Thigpen fixation?

[Mecca]

Now I fully admit it isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be on this forum but I've yet to figure out this fixation with him. It's really bad at some other unnamed forums..

I honestly have no way of comprehending what it's about. It's like everything people said about Croyle has now been lumped onto Thigpen. "Well um he's the guy we don't need another QB"

The worst part is the people who don't want a QB this year then say well if Thigpen doesn't work out we can just take Bradford or McCoy, it's like peoples brains fell out.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Interesting article from december shows that Brees was top-10 in the NFL in both hits and hurries to that point of the season: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ext...d-hurries-2008

I have to admit I was surprised by that. The guy was only sacked 13 times in 600+ attempts and completed 65% of his passes, which aren't exactly the kind of numbers that shout 'under pressure'.

So, all of those guys in the bottom list were actually hit MORE than Ben in the first half, huh?

[keg in kc]

I don't think anybody's even mentioned Sanchez in the last 12 hours or so.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by doomy3

So, all of those guys in the bottom list were actually hit MORE than Ben in the first half, huh?

Apparently.

I'm trying to find hurries stats for the whole season, but not having much luck.

[Sam Hall]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I don't think anybody's even mentioned Sanchez in the last 12 hours or so.

This whole thing is about Thigpen and Sanchez.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And in year four, he won a Super Bowl. So I'd say that the decision to start him mid-way into his rookie year paid off handsomely.

Because bottom line: Is that why they play the game? To win the Super Bowl?

No. They play the game so that we can tailgate and get drunk in the parking lot.

It's all about the Sunday Asphalt, Ribs, and Brew Social Club.

[ChiefRon]

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

This whole thing is about Thigpen and Sanchez.

Really? I thought this thread had turned into "let's trade for Brees"...

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

This whole thing is about Thigpen and Sanchez.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

The whole thing is Thigpen and 'franchise quarterback', but I don't see anybody limiting that to Sanchez. Sanchez isn't even part of the discussion right now, and the last person to mention him (me) went into some detail about how he thinks he's too risky a pick. Nobody argued or even replied...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I love the logic of a True Fan.

Correlation implies Causation.

Brees throws the ball a lot, therefore, he gets sacked/hit a lot.

I remember all those shots Trent Green was taking with Bill Roaf, Shields, Waters, Weigmann, and Welbourne protecting him when he was throwing for 4k a year.... right?

[Sam Hall]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

The whole thing is Thigpen and 'franchise quarterback', but I don't see anybody limiting that to Sanchez. Sanchez isn't even part of the discussion right now, and the last person to mention him (me) went into some detail about how he thinks he's too risky a pick. Nobody argued or even replied...

There's an underlying meaning to certain posters' messages. They're ripping everything in their path to proving Sanchez should be the pick at 3. Today it was Drew Brees. I don't mind the Thigpen criticism because I like Sanchez, but Brees doesn't deserve it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Interesting article from december shows that Brees was top-10 in the NFL in both hits and hurries to that point of the season: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ext...d-hurries-2008

I have to admit I was surprised by that. The guy was only sacked 13 times in 600+ attempts and completed 65% of his passes, which aren't exactly the kind of numbers that shout 'under pressure'.

The quarterback hits, of course, come from the official play-by-play. Official scorers are doing a better job of marking hits this year compared to last year, but there still are some very strange totals for certain teams because of scorers who seem to miss a lot of knockdowns. We've added a lot of hits to the official PBP thanks to the charting project, but that doesn't fully solve the problem. I'm sorry, but there's no way that last week's Pittsburgh-Dallas game had eight sacks but only one other play where a defender knocked the quarterback to the ground. And last week, the Bucs sacked Jeff Garcia five times but didn't knock him to the ground on any other play? Message to official scorer in Charlotte: I have my doubts.

Translation: Until hits taken are an official NFL stat, I have my doubts. Seems like there is no uniform guidelines as to what a hit is, or isn't.

For sake of conversation, let's play with these numbers.

Through 14 weeks, Brees was supposedly hit 36.5 times.

That averages out to 2.6 times per game.

So, the best we can do is assume he was hit 42 times over the course of the season.

Add that to the 13 sacks he took, and we have contact on 55 out of 635 pass attempts. Or contact every 11.5 pass attempts.

Roethlisberger wasn't on the list, so we don't have numbers to do the math - but it shows he was hurried the same number of times that Brees was.

Let's be fair and say that BR took HALF (which is being generous, IMO) of the hits that Brees took. 1.5 per game.

That's 21 hits over the course of the season, added to the 46 sacks he took. Contact on 67 plays over the course of the season, out of 469 pass attempts - or contact every 7 pass attempts.

[Sam Hall]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I love the logic of a True Fan.

Correlation implies Causation.

Brees throws the ball a lot, therefore, he gets sacked/hit a lot.

I remember all those shots Trent Green was taking with Bill Roaf, Shields, Waters, Weigmann, and Welbourne protecting him when he was throwing for 4k a year.... right?

Brees doesn't have that kind of line.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

WHAT?

Where has anyone mentioned Sanchez while debating your ridiculous statement that Brees would be just as effective in Pittsburgh as Rothlisberger?

WHAT THE ****?

Just because you say it's "ridiculous" doesn't make it so. I don't see what's ridiculous about the statement that Brees could do just as well. We're not talking about Joey Harrington here. We're talking about one of the top 3 most productive QBs in the league who happens to play in front of arguably one of the bottom 5 defenses in the league. And we're talking about a QB who spent most of the season without his top 2 wideouts and with his running backs injured all season.

And the blocking argument is definitely well within play. Basileus had a great point about the Pats' offensive line looking very human in 2008 without Brady. Brees is known for having one of the quickest releases in the game. Smart QBs are a lot harder to take down because they can smell the blitz from a mile away and exploit the living hell out of it. The Saints' o-line is nothing outstanding, but the QB makes them a lot better.

So let's flip this around. Could Big Ben be nearly as successful as he is now if he was in New Orleans? My guess would be a resounding "no."

[Sam Hall]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Translation: Until hits taken are an official NFL stat, I have my doubts. Seems like there is no uniform guidelines as to what a hit is, or isn't.

For sake of conversation, let's play with these numbers.

Through 12 weeks, Brees was supposedly hit 36.5 times.

That averages out to 3 times per game.

So, the best we can do is assume he was hit 48 times over the course of the season.

Add that to the 13 sacks he took, and we have contact on 61 out of 635 pass attempts. Or contact every 10.4 pass attempts.

Roethlisberger wasn't on the list, so we don't have numbers to do the math - but it shows he was hurried the same number of times that Brees was.

Let's be fair and say that BR took HALF (which is being generous, IMO) of the hits that Brees took. 1.5 per game.

That's 24 hits over the course of the season, added to the 46 sacks he took. Contact on 70 plays over the course of the season, out of 469 pass attempts - or contact every 6.7 pass attempts.

You can't honestly say that Brees had 635 attempts last season and only got hit three times per game. You're stretching things again.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

You can't honestly say that Brees had 635 attempts last season and only got hit three times per game. You're stretching things again.

He made a logical projection from the stats we had in hand. Hard to argue with that.

And it doesn't make Brees a bad quarterback.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I'm not saying if he's not sacked, he's not getting hit.

But it's pretty fair to say that if he's not getting sacked more than once a game, he's probably not getting hit much.

I can deduct that based on his stats, and the type of offense they run.

YOU are ASSUMING he's getting hit for NO OTHER REASON than he throws a lot.

You have NOTHING to back up that assumption.

I do.

Case ****ing closed.

SO ACTUALLY you have nothing to back up what you are sying? you are assuming that because payton manning doesnt gat hit much and they run the same type of offense that brees isnt hit much. i have watched the saints quite a bit and yeah he gets hit