I like Herm's method better...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

And why not sign a vet that's a little younger??? Why do they all have to be so freakin old. Why are many of you so in love with old players? There have been other veteran free agents available that are productive and are 30 and under.

Because they DO want to build their own team/identity through the draft, but right now it's about establishing a whole new method and mindset to EVERY aspect of what we eventually want to accomplish.
If these vets were getting Carl Peterson "sweetheart deals" to the tune of 4 and 5 year contracts, then we would have something to worry about.

These vets are here basically to set examples and to help transition to a winning mindset.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Because they DO want to build their own team/identity through the draft, but right now it's about establishing a whole new method and mindset to EVERY aspect of what we eventually want to accomplish.
If these vets were getting Carl Peterson "sweetheart deals" to the tune of 4 and 5 year contracts, then we would have something to worry about.

These vets are here basically to set examples and to help transition to a winning mindset.

I understand that. And I hope it works. But I would still rather sign some players that could have a future with the team.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Because they DO want to build their own team/identity through the draft, but right now it's about establishing a whole new method and mindset to EVERY aspect of what we eventually want to accomplish.
If these vets were getting Carl Peterson "sweetheart deals" to the tune of 4 and 5 year contracts, then we would have something to worry about.

These vets are here basically to set examples and to help transition to a winning mindset.

That's something you never addressed, bubb, the difference in contracts between the Carl that we know is fail and the Pioli we hope is not fail.

Realistically, though, everything in life is maximized through moderation. If young guys were the correct answer, NOBODY would ever get a second contract. It's just that simple.

I would venture a guess that every team that has won the Super Bowl has a FA vet playing a role. It's not the end of the world. These guys aren't being brought in as building blocks for a run, they are bodies. And rather than just have schmucks that will be cut at the earliest possible convenience, he's trying to get a little more out of them.

And again, **** HERM. The only youth movement he was ever on was in Tampa. Dungy was running the show, and I doubt that all veterans were cut loose. Herm is a ****ing toolbox. We should strive to NOT repeat any mistakes, including playing young POS's only because they are young.

**** HERM!
Posted via Mobile Device

[BarrySPAMAID]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

That's something you never addressed, bubb, the difference in contracts between the Carl that we know is fail and the Pioli we hope is not fail.

Realistically, though, everything in life is maximized through moderation. If young guys were the correct answer, NOBODY would ever get a second contract. It's just that simple.

I would venture a guess that every team that has won the Super Bowl has a FA vet playing a role. It's not the end of the world. These guys aren't being brought in as building blocks for a run, they are bodies. And rather than just have schmucks that will be cut at the earliest possible convenience, he's trying to get a little more out of them.

And again, **** HERM. The only youth movement he was ever on was in Tampa. Dungy was running the show, and I doubt that all veterans were cut loose. Herm is a ****ing toolbox. We should strive to NOT repeat any mistakes, including playing young POS's only because they are young.

**** HERM!
Posted via Mobile Device

God, I wish we could stop talking about Herm, but good points.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by BarrysKOOLAID

God, I wish we could stop talking about Herm, but good points.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Dear God that is Awesome!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Dear God that is Awesome!

Thanks!

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

That's something you never addressed, bubb, the difference in contracts between the Carl that we know is fail and the Pioli we hope is not fail.

Realistically, though, everything in life is maximized through moderation. If young guys were the correct answer, NOBODY would ever get a second contract. It's just that simple.

I would venture a guess that every team that has won the Super Bowl has a FA vet playing a role. It's not the end of the world. These guys aren't being brought in as building blocks for a run, they are bodies. And rather than just have schmucks that will be cut at the earliest possible convenience, he's trying to get a little more out of them.

And again, **** HERM. The only youth movement he was ever on was in Tampa. Dungy was running the show, and I doubt that all veterans were cut loose. Herm is a ****ing toolbox. We should strive to NOT repeat any mistakes, including playing young POS's only because they are young.

**** HERM!
Posted via Mobile Device

As always Little Big B, You are Money!

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

That's something you never addressed, bubb, the difference in contracts between the Carl that we know is fail and the Pioli we hope is not fail. Posted via Mobile Device

You are correct that the long term consequences of these free agents is not as bad bc Pioli is not giving them a ton of $$$ on a long term deal, but the overall premise is the same. Sign an old vet to fill the void. Don't take a chance on developing a younger player.

This will obviously look much better if Pioli can draft to replace these guys.

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Realistically, though, everything in life is maximized through moderation. If young guys were the correct answer, NOBODY would ever get a second contract. It's just that simple.

I would venture a guess that every team that has won the Super Bowl has a FA vet playing a role. It's not the end of the world. These guys aren't being brought in as building blocks for a run, they are bodies. And rather than just have schmucks that will be cut at the earliest possible convenience, he's trying to get a little more out of them.

And again, **** HERM. The only youth movement he was ever on was in Tampa. Dungy was running the show, and I doubt that all veterans were cut loose. Herm is a ****ing toolbox. We should strive to NOT repeat any mistakes, including playing young POS's only because they are young.

**** HERM!
Posted via Mobile Device

My opinion is that when you sign several free agents, there age should line up somewhat with the progression of the team toward the team's goal, which is to win the superbowl. If you have a few holes or need some depth at a few spots, it is a great move to sign several old vets if needed to get you to the superbowl. The Patriots just did this and I think it was a great move.

If you are a 2-14 team and you are several years away from a superbowl, you should just have a few vets on the team and spend most of the valuable playing time on some young players with the goal of trying to develop a quality roster with at least some depth.

What I find funny is a lot of you guys argue for drafting a young QB and taking a chance, but when it comes to taking a chance on developing a younger player at another position that is not a high draft pick.... then no, you can't do that. sign the vet. Take the SAFE route.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

You are correct that the long term consequences of these free agents is not as bad bc Pioli is not giving them a ton of $$$ on a long term deal, but the overall premise is the same. Sign an old vet to fill the void. Don't take a chance on developing a younger player.

This will obviously look much better if Pioli can draft to replace these guys.



My opinion is that when you sign several free agents, there age should line up somewhat with the progression of the team toward the team's goal, which is to win the superbowl. If you have a few holes or need some depth at a few spots, it is a great move to sign several old vets if needed to get you to the superbowl. The Patriots just did this and I think it was a great move.

If you are a 2-14 team and you are several years away from a superbowl, you should just have a few vets on the team and spend most of the valuable playing time on some young players with the goal of trying to develop a quality roster with at least some depth.

What I find funny is a lot of you guys argue for drafting a young QB and taking a chance, but when it comes to taking a chance on developing a younger player at another position that is not a high draft pick.... then no, you can't do that. sign the vet. Take the SAFE route.

Look. First point. The guys "valuable playing time" that they are taking are 99% going to be worthless POS scrubs that aren't going to be here when we make a run either. Look at a free agent list, there's not much there. We tried that shit with Herm. Pat Thomas, Rocky Boiman, and whoever the **** else we stuck in there are OFF THE TEAM and didn't contribute SHIT. If there's a shot those guys can do some mentoring before the wheels fall off then that is significantly better than what Thomas and Boiman did. Their contracts are set up to do that, not to be a burden long after they can't play.

Second point. There should be a balance of youth and age on any team. It used to be too old, Herm made it too young. The elders last year were TG, Waters, and Donnie. 2 of those guys are gone. All we've done is replace some older guys. This team didn't get "older" it just replaced some old guys.

As it is now, this team, agewise is NOT MUCH DIFFERENT than Herm's club. In fact, Donnie and TG were overpaid.
Posted via Mobile Device

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Look. First point. The guys "valuable playing time" that they are taking are 99% going to be worthless POS scrubs that aren't going to be here when we make a run either. Look at a free agent list, there's not much there. We tried that shit with Herm. Pat Thomas, Rocky Boiman, and whoever the **** else we stuck in there are OFF THE TEAM and didn't contribute SHIT. If there's a shot those guys can do some mentoring before the wheels fall off then that is significantly better than what Thomas and Boiman did. Their contracts are set up to do that, not to be a burden long after they can't play.

Every team has success stories of guys that are cast offs or undrafted that do well. Take for example, Priest Holmes. Undrafted by the Ravens in 97. He was a backup. The Chiefs signed him in 01 and he was 27. He was a cast off from the Ravens. The rest is history.

One way to make 100% sure you don't find the rare success stories like Priest Holmes is by signing players on their last legs.

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Second point. There should be a balance of youth and age on any team. It used to be too old, Herm made it too young. The elders last year were TG, Waters, and Donnie. 2 of those guys are gone. All we've done is replace some older guys. This team didn't get "older" it just replaced some old guys.

I agree with this to an extent. I thought Vrabel was enough.

Originally Posted by Buehler445

As it is now, this team, agewise is NOT MUCH DIFFERENENT than Herm's club. In fact, Donnie and TG were overpaid.
Posted via Mobile Device

Donnie was overpaid and TG DEFINITELY WAS NOT OVERPAID. NO WAY!

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Every team has success stories of guys that are cast offs or undrafted that do well. Take for example, Priest Holmes. Undrafted by the Ravens in 97. He was a backup. The Chiefs signed him in 01 and he was 27. He was a cast off from the Ravens. The rest is history.

One way to make 100% sure you don't find the rare success stories like Priest Holmes is by signing players on their last legs.



I agree with this to an extent. I thought Vrabel was enough.



Donnie was overpaid and TG DEFINITELY WAS NOT OVERPAID. NO WAY!

So you'd rather run worthless scrubs out there just so you don't miss a diamond in the rough and then forego any benefit you may have gotten otherwise? You have to balance risk/reward. You just have to.

TG being overpaid is arguable. I'll give you that.
Posted via Mobile Device

[HC_Chief]

Herm's "method" netted us 6 wins in two seasons. That's batting .188. Not so great for MLB, shit for NFL.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

These vets are here basically to set examples and to help transition to a winning mindset.

How is Vrabel setting an example on how to transition to a winning mindset?

Brian Waters has been blasted on here repeatedly. The bottom line is Vrabel and Waters are both absent. Neither has shown up. Actions speak louder than words and they are saying the same thing.

I don't want to be here.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

How is Vrabel setting an example on how to transition to a winning mindset?

1.) He's won Super Bowls.
2.) He's a vet.
3.) He can help implement the 3-4 defense.
4.) He can be a goal-line threat. (Even when teams know he's in the game, they still don't seem to guard him. All he does is catch touchdowns, LOL.)

Brian Waters has been blasted on here repeatedly. The bottom line is Vrabel and Waters are both absent. Neither has shown up. Actions speak louder than words and they are saying the same thing.

I don't want to be here.

I do agree that it would've made a better impression had he shown up recently. But maybe he had a verbal agreement with Pioli that he wouldn't have to show up for the involuntaries in May. If he's not there when August rolls around, that's different.