I like Herm's method better...

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

If it doesn't happen in reality then why do you have guys like Tim Grunhardt saying it does? Why do you have young guys like Meachem in New Orleans saying that he went to David Patton and basically lived with him in the offseason to learn how to play, and watch film, and how to prepare? The fact is, it does happen, but only if you have players that are willing to take advantage of it.

If Derrick Johnson doesn't want to learn from Vrabel and Thomas, then you're right those guys will have given a year or maybe two of service and left. But generally you have at least a few motivated guys on the team that want to learn. And when you're a young guy on a team that has not won very much the fact is, you don't know what it takes week in and week out to prepare to actually win on a consistent basis. Thomas, Vrabel, and Engram all come from places where they won a lot more than they lost. They have been in play off games, Super bowls, etc and won. We don't have anyone on this team that can show these guys what kind of effort it takes to get there, and what kind of attitude you need to have as a team to become a champion.

So the fact is, you can't win with a completely young roster because those guys don't know what it takes to win, and then when they lose over and over and over again, losing becomes a fact of life. It's why some franchises can't get over the losing hump, because they never changed the culture. That culture gets changed by players who know how to win, and what it takes to get there. Young guys don't know how to get there unless the vet leaders take them along. That sir, is a fact.

You obviously don't read to well. I said that a player can learn from a vet that plays the same position.

The examples that you've given with Grunhard and Meachem are with players that play the same position.

My point is that you guys act like Bobby Engram is going to be a leader for Tyson Jackson. Not going to happen.

And as far as the culture... You are buying more into the company line than I am. You obviously believe all the hype of bring the vet in to lead and change players attitude. I don't buy into all that crap. These guys are pros. They should have plenty of motivation. And Zach and Engram aren't even the best at their position on the team. And how is Vrabel leading by not showing up??? He doesn't want to be here. He would much rather play for a team that can compete to win now.

And why not sign a vet that's a little younger??? Why do they all have to be so freakin old. Why are many of you so in love with old players? There have been other veteran free agents available that are productive and are 30 and under.

The real reason is that these guys are cheap and fans still like them. They can still play some what productively and get by with them and hope they draft to replace them. And that plan may work out fine..... 3 or 4 years from now.... and maybe it won't...

I'd rather take a chance on a player like Matt Jones than waste time with Bobby Engram. I know he's a risk, but at least he's got some upside. What upside do we have with Engram?

And I would rather have kept Pat Thomas than sign Zach Thomas for the same reason. Pat is young and has upside. He obviously needs to improve, but he also obviously has more of a future than Zach.