A case for Tyler Thigpen

[MMXcalibur]

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/08/27/a-ca...tyler-thigpen/

Thursday, August 27 2009
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Jason La Canfora
A case for Tyler Thigpen
Posted: August 27th, 2009 | Jason La Canfora | Tags: Baltimore Ravens, Ben Roethlisberger, Brodie Croyle, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Joe Flacco, Kansas City Chiefs, Matt Cassel, Matt Ryan, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, trades, Tyler Thigpen, Wildcat

I have a question for you guys: Name a first-year starting quarterback who accounted for more touchdowns than Super Bowl-winning veteran Ben Roethlisberger or standout rookies Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan last season? Here’s another one: Of all the players who ran the ball at least 50 times last season, who led the NFL in yards per carry?

OK, so the title of this blog makes the answer pretty much a dead giveaway. I think we all know who I’m talking about here (for the record, he averaged 6.2 yards per carry on 62 rushes). But I’m going to say it (read: type it): I like Tyler Thigpen. I’m not afraid to admit it, and I know some savvy NFL scouts/executives who value him, too.

I like Thigpen’s guts and competitiveness. I love his athleticism. I think he’s a playmaker who’s still quite raw (a 25-year-old who became a starter for a lame-duck staff last season, out of Coastal Carolina of all places) and has some warts but a ton of upside. He’s a kid who flashed some real talent, yet was surrounded by an Amy Winehouse-thin roster in Kansas City last season (having no defense and no running game did him no favors).

And it’s clear that the new Chiefs regime prefers Matt Cassel and Brodie Croyle to him — because Thigpen is being shopped — but if I’m running the average NFL team (which means I probably have 1.5 capable QBs on my roster, and, yeah I’m going to use a lot of parenthesis in this post), I’m making a play for this kid, even if it costs me more than a fifth-round draft pick (the current asking price).

So, let’s go back to the beginning here, a very good place to start.

Thigpen was thrust into duty after the Chiefs’ other quarterbacks went down with season-ending injuries. He ended up accounting for 22 touchdowns (18 passing, three rushing and one receiving) in just 11 starts for a 2-14 team that had some deep flaws. Roethlisberger, a $100 million QB, won a Super Bowl with help from the game’s best defense and accounted for 19 TDs (17 passing, two rushing) in 16 starts.

So Thigpen, as a second-year pro with no prior experience and a last-place roster around him, threw for 2,608 yards and 18 TDs with 12 interceptions in the first 11 starts of his career. And Roethlisberger, already fully polished and with a Super Bowl-quality roster around him, threw for 3,301 yards and 17 TDs with 15 interceptions in 16 games. Hmm, interesting. And Roethlisberger had as many turnovers as Thigpen did scores.

OK. In no way am I trying to say Thigpen is remotely the QB and playmaker than Big Ben is (nor could anyone expect him to be), but tell me this kid might not be worth a shot at being better than most teams’ current backup passer. (Personally, I think he’s a heck of a lot better than Croyle, for one, but I’m obviously not running any NFL teams). Hang with me here.

Ryan, the third overall pick in the 2008 draft, won the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year award, had the league’s best running game and a stout Falcons defense behind him, and he accounted for 17 total TDs in 16 starts. Flacco also was a first-round pick in 2008, started 16 games for a Ravens team with the league’s second-best defense and a robust running attack, and he accounted for 16 total TDs.

Let’s take it a little deeper. Well, Jason, you dope, the Chiefs stunk and Thigpen just put up a bunch of meaningless numbers while chasing teams in the second half of games, right?

Not so fast. The Chiefs either led entering the fourth quarter, led in the fourth quarter or were tied entering the fourth quarter in seven of Thigpen’s final 10 games. If anything, questionable play-calling, a horrid running game and an atrocious defense conspired against the young QB.

Overall, could Thigpen be better in the fourth quarter? Sure, he had a 62.0 rating and completed just 50 percent of his passes (four fourth-quarter TDs to four fourth-quarter interceptions isn’t that bad, though). This was a kid from a small school thrust into emergency starts with little coaching, and as we know, inexperienced passers tend to have issues late in games. Thigpen also was sacked 11 times on just 123 fourth-quarter pass attempts, so a suspect offensive line and lack of any sort of competent defense didn’t make things any easier on him.

Well, what about Thigpen completing just 55 percent of his passes and throwing 12 interceptions in just 14 games? Neither is ideal, no doubt. But let’s look at his offensive weapons. Dwayne Bowe and Devard Darling were his starting receivers. It wasn’t exactly the sure-hands crew. Besides having perennial Pro Bowl TE Tony Gonzalez, this kid was on his own.

As I said, Thigpen is raw and has some flaws, so coach him up (he was the first quarterback in Coastal Carolina history for goodness sake, with the program starting in 2003) and help him with film study and fundamentals. There is plenty to work with there.

This kid is incredibly fast — on his runs, he was almost never tackled by someone in the front seven. You can’t tell me he’s not one of the 64 best QBs out there, and given his skills and speed, he definitely could be someone who could help in the Wildcat. At 6-foot-1 and 224 pounds, Thigpen can take a hit.

As for the interceptions, that’s pretty common with young QBs. And the first came in a mop-up role in his first appearance of 2008, and three more came in his first NFL start, against the eventual NFC South champion Falcons, when you’d expect him to be nervous.

In the final 10 games, all starts, Thigpen threw 16 touchdown passes to eight interceptions. Not too shabby. And that’s far beyond anything the first-round bonus babies (JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn) from Thigpen’s draft year (2007) have accomplished.

Well, sure, those are decent numbers, but come on, the dude was in a shotgun most of the time and not a traditional offense?

Yep, the Chiefs, in desperation, got a bit gimmicky last season and spread things out. But a lot of teams are going more that route, and you guys tell me that Tom Brady (and last year, Cassel) and Flacco and Roethlisberger aren’t back there quite a bit, too.

Wow, I never thought I’d write this much about Tyler Thigpen, but, alas, it has happened. But how can you not like the kid? Never invited to the combine, seventh-round pick by the Vikings, claimed off waivers by the Chiefs in September 2007, tore his medial collateral ligament that rookie season and then ended up starting 11 games the next year when no one expected it, and, best as I can tell, did some pretty nice stuff.

And now, someone, if they’re smart, will meet the Chiefs’ price and trade for Thigpen. Sure, a third- or fourth-round pick is considerable, but when you look at what the kid has done, how valuable his position is and how few quality alternatives exist (let alone talented 25-year-olds), to me, a fourth-round pick is surely worth the shot.

The Jaguars have expressed the most interest to this point, and that’s one of several teams with a significant need for a backup QB. The Bills, Bears, Packers and Saints also have been closely monitoring the QB market. And people I talk to around the league don’t discount the Patriots making a move for a QB, too — particularly one who could provide a Wildcat element. The Ravens seriously considered trading for Thigpen before ultimately opting to sign Cleo Lemon a little while back, league sources said.

Some team will come away with a solid prospect in Thigpen, and frankly, I’m not quite sure why the Chiefs didn’t give him more of a look before locking in on Cassel.

Thigpen overload lately.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by sedated

how ironic

How idiotic.

I'm still waiting on that list of multiple SB winning QB's.

I mean, Roethlisberger "fell into" 2 championships in 4 years, the list must be a mile long if it's that easy.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Wow, talk about disingenous.

Did Trent Dilfer play to the level expected of a franchise QB his entire career?

Or did he fall ass-backwards into the perfect spot, with the perfect team?

Had Peyton Manning played like Neil Lomax for 8 seasons, and then won a SB, we wouldn't be calling him a franchise QB either.

Eli surely hasn't played to the level expected of a franchise QB his entire career, and that was the Manning I was referring to.

55.9% completions
76.1 passer rating.


Dilfer:
55.5% completions
70.2 passer rating

Brad Johnson:
61.7% completions
82.5 passer rating


3 players with 1 Super Bowl win each. So, if Eli is a 'Franchise' QB, how is it that Johnson and Dilfer weren't?

[sedated]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

How idiotic.

I'm still waiting on that list of multiple SB winning QB's.

I mean, Roethlisberger "fell into" 2 championships in 4 years, the list must be a mile long if it's that easy.

I guess you aren't getting the point. Roth was fortunate enough to be on a great TEAM.

kinda like...Trent Dilfer, eh?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

CP, where Roethlisberger is average.

Nice avy!

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Who gives a ****?

He has 10 years left to play.

Christ, this fanbase is ****ed. You'd rather have the 4,000 yard passer who can't win a playoff game than the guy who threw for 3,000 and has multiple rings.

That fact that you made it THIS far in the thread before exploding just boggles my ****ing mind.
Rep to you Sir.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Eli surely hasn't played to the level expected of a franchise QB his entire career, and that was the Manning I was referring to.

55.9% completions
76.1 passer rating.


Dilfer:
55.5% completions
70.2 passer rating

Brad Johnson:
61.7% completions
82.5 passer rating


3 players with 1 Super Bowl win each. So, if Eli is a 'Franchise' QB, how is it that Johnson and Dilfer weren't?

Feel free to compare the guy who's played 4 years, with his entire career ahead of him, with two guys that combined for close to 30 seasons...

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Feel free to compare the guy who's played 4 years, with his entire career ahead of him, with two guys that combined for close to 30 seasons...

I will, just as you're comparing Cassel, a guy with one season playing, to players with a lot more years as starters under their belts.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by sedated

the only reason he wasn't was because of his age. are you saying that if he put up 2003-2005 numbers when he was in his mid-20s, he wouldn't be considered a future HOFer?

and what kept Trent out of the SB? the Defense.

He didn't start playing football until 2003?

I'd say '97-'02 and '06-'08 had a lot to do with him not being a franchise QB. And the HOF question is a ridiculous leap. If player X had only played at an incredibly high level for his entire career, wouldn't he be a HOFer?

Of course, and if frogs had wings...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I will, just as you're comparing Cassel, a guy with one season playing.

You know why?

All I've been told for the past 3 months is how important his experience is, and how sitting for years behind Brady makes him a can't miss veteran - how it made so much more sense to get him instead of drafting a young QB.

"Cassel can handle it, we'd ruin a young QB."

So the people are getting what they asked for.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

He didn't start playing football until 2003?

I'd say '97-'02 and '06-'08 had a lot to do with him not being a franchise QB. And the HOF question is a ridiculous leap. If player X had only played at an incredibly high level for his entire career, wouldn't he be a HOFer?

Of course, and if frogs had wings...

He's the expert at ridiculous leaps...

According to him, all we needed was a defense and Trent would have won the SB for us.

Talk about putting the ****ing cart before the horse, as the franchise hadn't won a playoff game in over a decade...

[sedated]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

He didn't start playing football until 2003?

I'd say '97-'02 and '06-'08 had a lot to do with him not being a franchise QB. And the HOF question is a ridiculous leap.

I guess it depends on when you ask the question "is he a franchise QB?" Is it when his career is over, at the peak of his career, or after a few seasons? We seem to be comparing apples to oranges - everyone is being judged at different points in their career and by different standards.

Who kows what TGreen would have been if circumstances were different. Riding the bench for so long, being on shitty teams, the STL injury in 99, getting decapitated...twice.

The "what-if" question abounds - Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are just the tip of the iceberg. Reggie White may only be the greatest defensive player ever because he went to GB and got a ring. Dan Marino is discounted because he never got one.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You know why?

All I've been told for the past 3 months is how important his experience is, and how sitting for years behind Brady makes him a can't miss veteran - how it made so much more sense to get him instead of drafting a young QB.

"Cassel can handle it, we'd ruin a young QB."

So the people are getting what they asked for.

You've been completely inconsistent with your arguments, all the while cherry picking comments from a few individuals rather than dealing with the general consensus about Cassel. Acting as if it's somehow others "getting what they asked for" is a steaming pile, nothing more.

Eli Manning is a franchise player according to you, but it's somehow unfair for others to point to Dilfer and Johnson in refuting that assertion because of career length? And you talk about the bullshit other posters have put down?

Was Marino a franchise QB?
Tarenton?
Fouts?
Jim Kelly?
Jay Schroeder?
Doug Williams?
Ken Stabler?

Do you have a full list of the NFL's franchise QBs since, say, 1970?

And the 3 months thing is just another load of bullshit. You've been blowing Sanchez and pounding on Cassel since before that 3 month period even started.

[sedated]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

He's the expert at ridiculous leaps...

According to him, all we needed was a defense and Trent would have won the SB for us.

uh...we had the best offense and special teams in football. if we had a defense, what other conclusion would you come up with?

and no single player wins a SB, a team does. That's my whole point.

[sedated]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Talk about putting the ****ing cart before the horse, as the franchise hadn't won a playoff game in over a decade...

what does that have to do with anything? how many playoff games had Arizona won in the last decade, before they went to the SB last year?

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by sedated

I guess it depends on when you ask the question "is he a franchise QB?" Is it when his career is over, at the peak of his career, or after a few seasons? We seem to be comparing apples to oranges - everyone is being judged at different points in their career and by different standards.

Who kows what TGreen would have been if circumstances were different. Riding the bench for so long, being on shitty teams, the STL injury in 99, getting decapitated...twice.

The "what-if" question abounds - Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are just the tip of the iceberg. Reggie White may only be the greatest defensive player ever because he went to GB and got a ring. Dan Marino is discounted because he never got one.

To me, a franchise QB is one who is the cornerstone of his team. He plays at a very high level for a significant period of time, elevating the play of those who surround him.

Furthermore, he is able to put the team on his shoulders and win a game, and he's able to do this on the biggest stage.

Based on the above, it's pretty easy to see the distinction between a Dilfer and a Roethlisberger. A Marino and a Green.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You know why?

All I've been told for the past 3 months is how important his experience is, and how sitting for years behind Brady makes him a can't miss veteran - how it made so much more sense to get him instead of drafting a young QB.

"Cassel can handle it, we'd ruin a young QB."

So the people are getting what they asked for.

None of that shit matters because he's a former Patriot. A product the Great Piolichick. A God among men from New England.

New England; where micro-brews flow through the rivers and streams so fresh and clean, you can dip your bottle in and taste Ambrosia. Where the sewers smell like a Lilly patch, and the turds transform in to chocolate bars as the piss becomes lemonade!
Where $100.00 bills grow from every chloroform-based vegetation as Prime Rib is hand delivered to your front door by Playboy Bunnies!
And where the Greatest Quarterbacks you'll ever be lucky enough to have pawned-off on you, you worthless, ****ing non-New England-ite, shall NEVER be questioned, only Praised and Worshiped.

You infidel.