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Old 08-31-2009, 05:15 PM  
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Who is the greatest American villain?
A Charles Manson reference in another thread got me thinking about this. Who is the greatest villain in American history, the one that will draw the most ire from any right-thinking American?

Give me some options and I'll put up a poll. Nominees can come from any category: war, politics, crime, business, finance, celebrity, sports, child care, Benetton models, comic strip artists (Bil Keane, anyone?), or others. Give me your best shot.

The rules:

1. We're talking true villainy here. Villainy where you can't really defend anything the person did at a dinner party without getting winces.

2. We're talking national scale. Remember, the kicker that shall go unnamed is a hero in Indianapolis.

3. Real life only. While many may villainize Elmer Fudd for his relentless and brazen murderous stalking of Bugs Bunny, Mr. Fudd does not actually exist, and therefore any villainous acts committed by Mr. Fudd do not exist, either.

4. The villain must be an American citizen, or if their villainy took place before 1783, a resident of the area that would eventually become the United State AND acting against the United States for villainous reasons rather than sincere loyalty to another country in conflict with nascent American liberty movements or peoples and in the absence of a history of loyalty to American causes.

Once I get 20 reasonable candidates, I'll post the poll.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:08 AM   #181
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One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. With apologies to oldandslow, I nominate Sitting Bull.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:13 AM   #182
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:13 AM   #183
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You really equate "took good care of his dogs" with keeping thousands of Americans from starving? Nice.

What would your position on Bernie Madoff be if we addedt hat he killed a couple hundred people, but on the other side of the ledger he gave to some soup kitchens?

Seriously -- you're talking about an evil mass-murdering f**khead who stole, in various ways, the equivalent of billions of dollars in today's money.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:15 AM   #184
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He gave SOUP to the POOR!! Hooray for him.

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:16 AM   #185
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One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. With apologies to oldandslow, I nominate Sitting Bull.
Yep, how dare that sonofabitch defend his home.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:18 AM   #186
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:20 AM   #187
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One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. With apologies to oldandslow, I nominate Sitting Bull.

oldandslow's not gonna like that.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:25 AM   #188
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oldandslow's not gonna like that.
I bet he'll be disappointed when he sees my clean shaved head.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:26 AM   #189
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What would your position on Bernie Madoff be if we addedt hat he killed a couple hundred people, but on the other side of the ledger he gave to some soup kitchens?

Seriously -- you're talking about an evil mass-murdering f**khead who stole, in various ways, the equivalent of billions of dollars in today's money.
You didn't compare him to Bernie Madoff - you compared him to Adolph Hitler. Frankly, that's reeruned.

I never said Capone was heroic. But very few people are either (a) completely good, or (b) completely evil. It is very likely that Capone helped far more people than he ever hurt. And had it not been for prohibition, Capone would never have enjoyed the power and prestige that he amassed. The mob simply responded to the will of the people. Our own stupid government is just as responsible for every criminal act that happened regarding bootlegging as Capone was.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:26 AM   #190
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Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:26 AM   #191
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Uh, British.

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:27 AM   #192
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He gave SOUP to the POOR!! Hooray for him.

Yeah, those poor Irish altar boys, they never did nothin' to nobody.

It must be nice to get all of your history lessons from bumper stickers. Much easier to understand that way.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:29 AM   #193
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:29 AM   #194
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Yeah, those poor Irish altar boys, they never did nothin' to nobody.

It must be nice to get all of your history lessons from bumper stickers. Much easier to understand that way.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:30 AM   #195
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I'll add State Farm and Allstate to that mix.
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